Sunny California United States Member #40295 May 31, 2006 7712 Posts Offline

Posted: January 3, 2008, 8:39 am - IP Logged

Quote: Originally posted by tntea on January 2, 2008

Lottolaughs,

I remember your strings from the previous year. I have since forgotten how you arrived to those. Could you explain again about how many past strings you use/ or past winning numbers? TN had 08 18 36 24 33 this past Monday. Is this string +1+2+3 all I deal with? How do I come up with more than one line of numbers.

Thanks in advance...

Tntea

Hello tntea!

Be glad to help you out. You will use your last 2 drawing results. For TN now they would be in order--

Sunny California United States Member #40295 May 31, 2006 7712 Posts Offline

Posted: January 3, 2008, 8:49 am - IP Logged

Quote: Originally posted by benmas on January 3, 2008

Nothing special about any of the above mentioned wheels ...on the first look they seem great but its just another method...there are few good things and many bad things with these wheels...Don't kill me with your comments defending the wheels ....I mean if you love it that's cool with me ..use it to your advantage...Just posting my honest opinion...My observations on these wheels below...

First of ...cutting a matrix of ~40 numbers (for pick 5) in half is terrible to begin with ..

Next you have to get one number correct in each group.....good luck... tooo restrictive

then it only guarantees 4 numbers...i mean the payout for 4 of 5 is ~$300..after all that trouble where is the reward? 3 numbers right you get~$10 and in ~ 40 lines from wheel with that you get back ~$50 tops... 2 of 5 you get $1 ..going around in circles.. And these numbers are for best case scenarios...you imagine the worst case....Not good overall ..it lures you into thinking you are winning because you get 2 or 3 numbers when in fact its just spinning wheels...

Just becasue you get 3 numbers right it doesn"t mean you are getting close to it...i mean the odds for 3 of 5 are about 1:120 and 5of5 is ~1:600,000 NOT CLOSE AT ALL....Just another Method ...IT will STILL depend on luck again which is right back where you started ..........

Of course you are entitled to your opinions but for those of us who WRITE systems this is a great asset in my tool bag. It's like it was custom made for me! What is wrong with METHODS that you so obviously highlighted? Absolutely nothing in my book. We are all using one method or another.

I'm so tired of naysayers and downers. Why can't we all just be positive for a change? Maybe it might change some luck around here. This is all gambling, a game of "chance" anyway. We all know we will mostly lose more then we make so why can't we just have fun with it?! Geese Louise!

Rhode Island United States Member #56010 October 28, 2007 434 Posts Offline

Posted: January 3, 2008, 2:07 pm - IP Logged

Quote: Originally posted by lottolaughs on January 3, 2008

Of course you are entitled to your opinions but for those of us who WRITE systems this is a great asset in my tool bag. It's like it was custom made for me! What is wrong with METHODS that you so obviously highlighted? Absolutely nothing in my book. We are all using one method or another.

I'm so tired of naysayers and downers. Why can't we all just be positive for a change? Maybe it might change some luck around here. This is all gambling, a game of "chance" anyway. We all know we will mostly lose more then we make so why can't we just have fun with it?! Geese Louise!

There is nothing wrong with methods but there is something wrong with bad methods...It is good that you are having fun with it but the whole point of it is to WIN MONEY (positive net profit)...I tried the above wheels and wasn't satisfied with the results at all...(maybe i need to work on it but to work on it will surely mean losing money first)....(also some states like NJ dont pay for 2of 5)...I only wanted to highlight some of the drawbacks of wheels like these....I dont want to be negative but it always seems like everyone is jumping for something without clearly understanding both sides of it the good and bad side....Losing money is NOT FUN..

Sunny California United States Member #40295 May 31, 2006 7712 Posts Offline

Posted: January 3, 2008, 2:39 pm - IP Logged

Quote: Originally posted by benmas on January 3, 2008

There is nothing wrong with methods but there is something wrong with bad methods...It is good that you are having fun with it but the whole point of it is to WIN MONEY (positive net profit)...I tried the above wheels and wasn't satisfied with the results at all...(maybe i need to work on it but to work on it will surely mean losing money first)....(also some states like NJ dont pay for 2of 5)...I only wanted to highlight some of the drawbacks of wheels like these....I dont want to be negative but it always seems like everyone is jumping for something without clearly understanding both sides of it the good and bad side....Losing money is NOT FUN..

Any method will only work for a certain amount of time anyway so to depend on just one is never a good idea. You have to find the right mix and judging from all the posts on here we still haven't found the "right recipe" if there is any such animal. It's all about bettering your chances,do you like to leave it up to the computer(QP's) or would you rather spend your dollar YOUR way with something you came up with? We all like to feel that sense of "accomplishment", that OUR numbers gave us the winner,the ones WE picked. I know I do and will never waste my money on QPs again. At least you feel you have SOME control when you are choosing them yourself.

Most people on here play on paper most of the time, we are not out there spending big bucks on wheels. Who can afford to? I've never played a wheel in my life but I love studying them and making them up. You have to keep a good attitude about it though because if you take this game too seriously it will always kick you in the butt and who wants to be that disappointed all the time?

You are correct,there are drawbacks to most wheels, I believe. And they are only as good as the numbers we put in them. THAT to me is the real battle, the big guns! The wheel is just your strategy and how you will use them. If you find yourself picking the right 5/6 numbers all of the time it shouldn't matter WHAT wheel you use. NUMBERS NUMBERS NUMBERS,that's where its at and what we should be concentrating on the most. The wheel should find it's way to you,it shouldn't be difficult to find one that's fitting IF you are picking those right numbers all of the time.

I didn't mean to sound so harsh. If you have been around here for awhile, people will jump on new ideas when they first come out but you will notice that everything dies out soon after. What thread do you see from when this forum first started that is still around and active? LOL. A lot of bright minds here and maybe that's what we need to start gelling together to get the "right mix".

South Carolina United States Member #6 November 4, 2001 8790 Posts Offline

Posted: January 3, 2008, 5:09 pm - IP Logged

Quote: Originally posted by lottolaughs on January 3, 2008

Of course you are entitled to your opinions but for those of us who WRITE systems this is a great asset in my tool bag. It's like it was custom made for me! What is wrong with METHODS that you so obviously highlighted? Absolutely nothing in my book. We are all using one method or another.

I'm so tired of naysayers and downers. Why can't we all just be positive for a change? Maybe it might change some luck around here. This is all gambling, a game of "chance" anyway. We all know we will mostly lose more then we make so why can't we just have fun with it?! Geese Louise!

All is needed for 5 0f 5 to fall correctly in the matrix [ I think they call it ] for a jackpot.

Maybe we can work on figuring where to put our top numbers in the wheel where we have a chance at 5 of 5 if the top numbers fall.

I also like the short version there with 3 in each set. That is my style budget wise for jackpot games.

Be a cold day in haedies before I lay out over $60.00 a day in wagers.

end 36 lines 4if5in15 numbers if 1 From Each Group.

Remember you don't have to do the number exchange by hand you can copy and paste the wheel into CoverMaster and let CM swap the pointer numbers for your picks.

Dump Water Florida United States Member #380 June 5, 2002 3102 Posts Offline

Posted: January 3, 2008, 5:30 pm - IP Logged

Quote: Originally posted by benmas on January 3, 2008

There is nothing wrong with methods but there is something wrong with bad methods...It is good that you are having fun with it but the whole point of it is to WIN MONEY (positive net profit)...I tried the above wheels and wasn't satisfied with the results at all...(maybe i need to work on it but to work on it will surely mean losing money first)....(also some states like NJ dont pay for 2of 5)...I only wanted to highlight some of the drawbacks of wheels like these....I dont want to be negative but it always seems like everyone is jumping for something without clearly understanding both sides of it the good and bad side....Losing money is NOT FUN..

First of all the wheel was originally posted in a response to NumbaTuff who said he could almost always get all the winning numbers in five groups of two to four numbers, a 5if5in20 numbers 1024 lines if one from each of 5 groups of 4 was offered as well.

The wheel is special in the sense it is nearly impossible to find these wheels in books or lotto software. If it is what you were looking for to complete your strategy it's priceless, if not it's worthless.

Cutting the field in half, depends on whether you can successfully do it and still retain all the winning numbers.

One number from each group too restrictive? Let's look at an alternative. A standard 4if5in15 numbers wheel takes 112 combinations . . . we've cut the combinations (playing cost) in half and added five numbers with the condition one number come from each group. Check the playing cost of 4if5 wheels, they don't come cheap unless you filter the heck out of them.

To use your example of a 5/40 game and you are guaranteed a 4if5 win, the odds of a 5if5 isn't 1:600,000 any longer it's 1:36 the fifth number on your 4if5 guaranteed line will be the 5th correct number because there are only 36 possibilities left.

When we play a wheel for a lower tier prize it is always with the hope the wheel will play above its guarantee.

I don't know how you "tried the above wheels" and found them lacking because they are exactly what they are no more no less the result is 100% guaranteed if you meet the conditions.

I've no objection to playing all the numbers as a way to walk around the problem of prediction, how do you suggest we go about it while staying within a reasonable budget?

Southeastern Ohio United States Member #13850 April 16, 2005 783 Posts Offline

Posted: January 3, 2008, 5:52 pm - IP Logged

The way I prefer arriving at a set of numbers to wheel is to track my sum range chart and see where the winning number sums are congregating.

Then, the second part is in deciding which numbers I need for use in the wheel. There are all kinds of tricky formulas around to try, but formulas are always in constant change. How can you successfully manage that constant change?

The way I manage the change is to maintain an accurate up to date statistical flow chart. This chart indicates what numbers are hitting, what their status is at the time of the draw, and where they are located within a structured enviornment.

Once I created the proper charts, I began seeing that certain groups of numbers behaved in a peculiarly significant pattern. Two groups of numbers were created by dividing the statistical flow chart into an Upper Tier Group, and a Lower Tier Group of numbers.

Many times 4 or 5 numbers would appear in one particular group of numbers, and the very next drawing 4 or 5 numbers would appear in the other/opposite group of numbers. This peculiar pattern has been observed to occur for up to four or five continuous drawings in a row. There is one problem here. At certain times 4 or 5 numbers, (not necessarily the exact same numbers), appear again from within the same group of numbers as the previous drawing.

Now, this observation clicks a switch, doesn't it? If there is a particular pattern that commenly occurs involving a majority of numbers appearing in a certain group of numbers, and the observation has proved to re-occur repeatedly time after time where 4 or 5 numbers is going to re- appear the very next drawing in one group of numbers or the other, what would you do?

Exactly! You would wheel all of the numbers from each group of numbers and play them, wouldn't you?

Ooooooooh, wait! Ooooooooh, that's waaaaaaaay too many number strings to wager!!!

How can I possibly reduce all those strings down to an affordable amount to wager?

Question answered!!! This is what can be done to cover all the numbers from both groups, (Upper Tier, and Lower Tier).

Observe the Average Sum Chart! View where the last two or three total sums appeared at. If there is a Sum Cluster, or a Sum Cluster Alert nearby, these target sum range's may be considered.

Using 4if5 of 19, and 4if5 of 20 wheels to cover all the numbers, (in example, the OH Rolling Cash 5 of 39), and filtering the totals from each wheel using "average sum reductions."

For instance, using a 4if5 of 19 wheel, reduce the total 345 tic's by utilizing Sum Filtering. Reduce the range of 55 to 154 down to, say, 95 to 105. The median range for a 5/39 Lotto is 100. The reduction can be whatever appeals to you. I like viewing the Average Sum Graph and developing a "gut" feeling for what may happen next, for instance, utilizing the sum ranges outlined in the Sum Cluster, or Sum Cluster Alert boxes.

Once this technique is developed, you will be surprised at what is possible. This application can be practiced until a comfort level is achieved and you can become accomplished!

ORLANDO, FLORIDA United States Member #4924 June 3, 2004 5894 Posts Offline

Posted: January 3, 2008, 6:34 pm - IP Logged

BobP and LV's explanations and views are what this Pick 5 forum has been lacking. Those are darn good tools to use to create a winning atmoshere. Being negative doesn't contribute one iota to creative brainstorming. Thanks to both of you. I used the group of 3 wheel and filtered .With that said my picks for tonight.

D.C./MD. United States Member #44103 July 30, 2006 5583 Posts Online

Posted: January 3, 2008, 11:01 pm - IP Logged

Quote: Originally posted by BobP on January 3, 2008

First of all the wheel was originally posted in a response to NumbaTuff who said he could almost always get all the winning numbers in five groups of two to four numbers, a 5if5in20 numbers 1024 lines if one from each of 5 groups of 4 was offered as well.

The wheel is special in the sense it is nearly impossible to find these wheels in books or lotto software. If it is what you were looking for to complete your strategy it's priceless, if not it's worthless.

Cutting the field in half, depends on whether you can successfully do it and still retain all the winning numbers.

One number from each group too restrictive? Let's look at an alternative. A standard 4if5in15 numbers wheel takes 112 combinations . . . we've cut the combinations (playing cost) in half and added five numbers with the condition one number come from each group. Check the playing cost of 4if5 wheels, they don't come cheap unless you filter the heck out of them.

To use your example of a 5/40 game and you are guaranteed a 4if5 win, the odds of a 5if5 isn't 1:600,000 any longer it's 1:36 the fifth number on your 4if5 guaranteed line will be the 5th correct number because there are only 36 possibilities left.

When we play a wheel for a lower tier prize it is always with the hope the wheel will play above its guarantee.

I don't know how you "tried the above wheels" and found them lacking because they are exactly what they are no more no less the result is 100% guaranteed if you meet the conditions.

I've no objection to playing all the numbers as a way to walk around the problem of prediction, how do you suggest we go about it while staying within a reasonable budget?

BobP

It is an efficient wheel, great guarantee and cost effective. In MD.Bonus match 5 it would cost $42 to play the 20 group and $24 the 15 number group. Thank You very much for sharing!

Kentucky United States Member #32652 February 14, 2006 7302 Posts Offline

Posted: January 4, 2008, 7:22 am - IP Logged

Quote: Originally posted by benmas on January 3, 2008

Nothing special about any of the above mentioned wheels ...on the first look they seem great but its just another method...there are few good things and many bad things with these wheels...Don't kill me with your comments defending the wheels ....I mean if you love it that's cool with me ..use it to your advantage...Just posting my honest opinion...My observations on these wheels below...

First of ...cutting a matrix of ~40 numbers (for pick 5) in half is terrible to begin with ..

Next you have to get one number correct in each group.....good luck... tooo restrictive

then it only guarantees 4 numbers...i mean the payout for 4 of 5 is ~$300..after all that trouble where is the reward? 3 numbers right you get~$10 and in ~ 40 lines from wheel with that you get back ~$50 tops... 2 of 5 you get $1 ..going around in circles.. And these numbers are for best case scenarios...you imagine the worst case....Not good overall ..it lures you into thinking you are winning because you get 2 or 3 numbers when in fact its just spinning wheels...

Just becasue you get 3 numbers right it doesn"t mean you are getting close to it...i mean the odds for 3 of 5 are about 1:120 and 5of5 is ~1:600,000 NOT CLOSE AT ALL....Just another Method ...IT will STILL depend on luck again which is right back where you started ..........

"First of ...cutting a matrix of ~40 numbers (for pick 5) in half is terrible to begin with .."

I'd agree if the idea is to cut the possible 658,008 combinations in half, but the idea is to cut the starting numbers in half; 5/20 has 15,504 combinations not 329,004 or around a 97% reduction.

Even if somebody could find a method that consistently produced 5 winning numbers out of 20, $15,504 a pop is way too high for a serious lottery player. Wheels are designed to lower the playing cost to make it possible for an average player that believes they can choose 4 or 5 numbers out of 20 to play.

"Next you have to get one number correct in each group.....good luck... tooo restrictive"

An abbreviated 4if5 20 number wheel has 433 combinations and BobP's conditional wheel only has 64 so of course it's restrictive. My guess is that Lottolaughs has looked at methods to pick 5 out of 20 numbers but the cost ($433 a draw) made it unplayable and BobP showed a way where it is playable. And looking at the responses, quite a few people see the playing potential of the 20 or the 15 number wheel and are blowing the dust off their pick-5 number choosing methods.

"then it only guarantees 4 numbers...i mean the payout for 4 of 5 is ~$300..after all that trouble where is the reward?"

There are only 75 combinations in a full 15,504 combination 5/20 wheel so just the fact you're guaranteed to hit one playing only 64 combinations is spectacular. If somebody wanted to gamble that 5 out of their 20 numbers will hit and match the conditions of the wheel, they could hit the jackpot for $1024 or $243 using the 5/15 method.

"Just becasue you get 3 numbers right it doesn"t mean you are getting close to it...i mean the odds for 3 of 5 are about 1:120 and 5of5 is ~1:600,000 NOT CLOSE AT ALL "

If I thought I could pick 5 out of 20 numbers, only picking 3 would hardly make me believe I was getting close. On the other hand if I did only get 3 numbers after playing 64 combinations and those 3 numbers met the conditions of the wheel, I would be guaranteed to win a 3 of 5 prize so it's not a 1 in 120 chance.

"Just another Method ...IT will STILL depend on luck again which is right back where you started .........."

Luck is when you hand the clerk a buck, ask for a quick pick while holding a rabbit's foot, and find out the next day you hit the hit jackpot. But people that play an occasional buck or 5 bucks a day on pick-5 games aren't thinking about spending $40 a draw. BobP's conditional wheels are intended as an option or tool for somebody that plays or might consider playing $64 or $40 a draw.

"Don't kill me with your comments defending the wheels ...."

If your comments are reasons why you wouldn't use these wheels, no problem but if you're saying these wheels are worthless, I hope you are not thin skinned.