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Programs for dynamic wheel construction?

Topic closed. 24 replies. Last post 9 years ago by LottoMining.

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Greece
Member #2815
November 18, 2003
502 Posts
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Posted: January 15, 2008, 2:15 am - IP Logged

Ok, LA

I have 20 numbers I want to wheel for a 4if5 but it's to big for the pocket book, so now I want to look at a table and maybe change that to 90% or 80% chance and it shows how many tickets needed and gives me those combinations.

Or  the table also shows how many combinations needed for 3 three number hits etc. and percentages.

Is this the info your looking for?  If not I'm lost. 

Hi Maryland,

indeed this can be useful. However such a feature requires an internal database of existing wheels to be in place since computing on-the-fly the required amount of tickets for an e.g. 80% is not really accurate. Alternatively, suplying the program with an initial wheel with higher coverage than the one you want to achieve, it will be able to determine a maximum bound of tickets required (based on the supplied wheel) for a predefined coverage such as 80%, since certainly due to the internal coverage optimization process, the required initial tickets bound displayed will be reduced even further. The program already does this reduction, if so desired, but it doesn't show beforehand a visual representation. This can be easily done and I'll consider it for inclusion.

Also note that determining the exact maximum coverage L achieved by a certain amount of combinations is rarely possible, which is similar to the difficulties of determining the real theoritical lower bound possible of the wheel.

cheers

lottoarchitect 

If you have something to do, at least do it well...

    lottoarchitect's avatar - waveform

    Greece
    Member #2815
    November 18, 2003
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    Posted: January 15, 2008, 9:53 am - IP Logged

    Thanks for all the info and ideas guys, you gave me lots to look at! Any more ideas are welcome of course. I'll let you know how things progress.

    cheers 

    lottoarchitect

    If you have something to do, at least do it well...

      Avatar

      United States
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      January 5, 2003
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      Posted: January 15, 2008, 3:51 pm - IP Logged

      LA, I can't access your home page anymore or your forum on the software.  Will they be available again?

        lottoarchitect's avatar - waveform

        Greece
        Member #2815
        November 18, 2003
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        Posted: January 15, 2008, 8:16 pm - IP Logged

        Maryland, I have been setting up a new URL and updating the webiste during the last 2 days. Probably the DNS propagation hasn't been fully completed yet. I should be accessible within the next 1-2 days however. As for the forum, I haven't changed anything on that. You should be able to display it. If you don't have the link, google "program's name forum".

        If you have something to do, at least do it well...

          LottoMining's avatar - lightbulb
          California
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          January 11, 2007
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          Posted: January 22, 2008, 11:10 am - IP Logged

          To answer your question on which are the programs you know and use that can construct such dynamic wheels:  I used two different databases, since a rule in the query engine can be specified to generate all combinations of a temp table of 20 values (or any x values).  I used SQL Server 2005 and ASP.NET 2.0 to build a wheel and I also built it in Access an DB because I got temporarily stuck in SQL and wanted to carry the whole process further along rather than stay temporarily frustrated.  Both DB’s can apply all kinds of filters.

            psykomo's avatar - animal shark.jpg

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            Posted: January 22, 2008, 11:58 am - IP Logged

            To answer your question on which are the programs you know and use that can construct such dynamic wheels:  I used two different databases, since a rule in the query engine can be specified to generate all combinations of a temp table of 20 values (or any x values).  I used SQL Server 2005 and ASP.NET 2.0 to build a wheel and I also built it in Access an DB because I got temporarily stuck in SQL and wanted to carry the whole process further along rather than stay temporarily frustrated.  Both DB’s can apply all kinds of filters.

            ????? can LA?????

            Do-It ????????

            LOL   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Party

            PSYKOMO 

              lottoarchitect's avatar - waveform

              Greece
              Member #2815
              November 18, 2003
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              Posted: January 22, 2008, 9:01 pm - IP Logged

              To answer your question on which are the programs you know and use that can construct such dynamic wheels:  I used two different databases, since a rule in the query engine can be specified to generate all combinations of a temp table of 20 values (or any x values).  I used SQL Server 2005 and ASP.NET 2.0 to build a wheel and I also built it in Access an DB because I got temporarily stuck in SQL and wanted to carry the whole process further along rather than stay temporarily frustrated.  Both DB’s can apply all kinds of filters.

              Can the above produce dynamic minimal wheels as I described it in this thread? I doubt. Constructing dynamic wheels/coverings requires advanced mathematics and quite tuned and sophisticated algorithms to contain all the various and conflicting properties (single coverage, multiple coverage, filters etc) in one robust and compact wheel. Neither of these are supported by any means in DB applications. Filtering? Ok, but this doesn't construct dynamic coverings, at least by the means I describe them here and all the benefits they carry. If however, by any chance, you managed something so special using just SQL and ASP, you are nominated for the Nobel prize in computing and I'd like a description of what you did. Just to get you started, how do you construct with SQL and ASP a minimal close-covering, without any other restrictions?

              Remember, the term dynamic minimal wheel, is a wheel which:

              1) holds true for all the applied filters in all of its tickets to the maximum possible extend (not always possible to achieve that)

              2) and additionally, it does have maximized (or close to maximum) single (or multiple - more complicated) coverage for the amount of tickets we want to construct, which is also affected negatively by the filters in 1). So we additionally aim to minimize the negative impact of additional restrictions applied in 1) above.

              Its not a dynamic wheel, if it justs happens to qualify only in the case 1) above (actually its not even a minimal wheel if it doesn't carry the main property of maximum coverage in the simplest case). It's neither a dynamic wheel if it just qualifies for the 2) above.

              Just consider the fact that constucting a wheel which only aims to offer maximum coverage in the simplest case (no filters or other restrictions), is an NP-hard problem (besides some exceptions of covering theory which can construct minimal ones). Now imagine, how much more difficult is to introduce restrictions and try to maintain the coverage and qualify to all the other restrictions. 

              Right now, I do not talk about various other wheel constructions such as grouped/Serotic wheels. These wheels fail to the condition 2) above.

              lottoarchitect

              If you have something to do, at least do it well...

                BobP's avatar - bobp avatar.png
                Dump Water Florida
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                Posted: January 23, 2008, 1:39 am - IP Logged

                One thing I notice about such software is the apparent lack of common knowledge that for example a Pick-6, 2if6in18 number wheel needs only 3 lines.  By the time filters are selected either some must be allowed to fail or the lines can't be compleated in 3 and need many more or some numbers must be exchanged to accomodate the filters which is a problem for players who have carefully selected 18 numbers and find two or three swapped out.

                Software is getting beyond the skill level of the customer base. Any decision a user might make needs a routine to make the proper choice if the user isn't up to it. 

                BobP
                 

                  lottoarchitect's avatar - waveform

                  Greece
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                  Posted: January 23, 2008, 9:30 am - IP Logged

                  One thing I notice about such software is the apparent lack of common knowledge that for example a Pick-6, 2if6in18 number wheel needs only 3 lines.  By the time filters are selected either some must be allowed to fail or the lines can't be compleated in 3 and need many more or some numbers must be exchanged to accomodate the filters which is a problem for players who have carefully selected 18 numbers and find two or three swapped out.

                  Software is getting beyond the skill level of the customer base. Any decision a user might make needs a routine to make the proper choice if the user isn't up to it. 

                  BobP
                   

                  That is exactly my point BobP. Things get much worse when playing with more lines. Dynamic wheel construction targets to reduce the failing status of the restrictions (filters) whilst maintaining as high as possible the coverage (simple or multiple). Even if re-arrangement of numbers is applied to a static wheel, chances are that dynamic construction will achieve even better results since many valid coverings exist that offer the initial coverage, and some of them will be particularly good for each selection of filters/numbers whilst others will be bad for the same selection of filters/numbers. However those bad coverings will be more appropriate for another particular set of filters/numbers and that is the point of dynamic construction and what I try to create here anyway; to pick the most appropriate covering & re-arrangement to use for our particular filters/numbers set. I believe doing this by hand is out of question anyway.

                  lottoarchitect 

                  If you have something to do, at least do it well...

                    LottoMining's avatar - lightbulb
                    California
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                    Posted: January 23, 2008, 10:12 am - IP Logged

                    The solution I envisioned ends up with a balanced set (numbers occur as part of a triple an equal number of times, as a pair equally, etc.) that can be filtered by the end user and didn't at this time involve higher math.  The query rule returns a huge amount of info (the set of all combos of x in y) for very little work and a new extension I newly discovered in SQL 2005: Common Table Extension, allows a recursive query so the set of all combos can iteratively call itself until a whole set of rules hold true.  I made the trade-off of efficiency over strictness and minimal guarantees.