Welcome Guest
Log In | Register )
You last visited December 9, 2016, 8:24 am
All times shown are
Eastern Time (GMT-5:00)

Texas Lottery confirms that Quick Picks are not generated by "central computer"

Topic closed. 44 replies. Last post 8 years ago by Think.

Page 3 of 3
4.33
PrintE-mailLink
Think's avatar - lightbulb
Marquette, MI
United States
Member #20541
August 20, 2005
705 Posts
Offline
Posted: December 1, 2008, 9:51 pm - IP Logged

I posted this before but here it is again-

 

http://www.lottery.state.mn.us/qanda.html#18

Q: How are quick-pick tickets generated for games like Powerball? Is it in the local store terminal or a host computer? How many host computers are there?

A: The quick-pick algorithm resides in the store's terminal. Each time it is seeded with several randomizer keys based on time and previous terminal activity.

    pick4hawk's avatar - Trek HAND3.gif

    United States
    Member #19982
    August 9, 2005
    226 Posts
    Offline
    Posted: December 1, 2008, 10:08 pm - IP Logged

    in a word that still does not answer my question.

    can the state influence the intial seed via firmware update. the terminals are connected to phone line .

    can they set or stack the deck to choose poor numbers. 

    just because they might use time between different activititys like key strokes either binary or integer to set begining seed this does not make the rng truly random.

     time only only goes forward.

      Guru101's avatar - rw6jhh
      Indiana
      United States
      Member #48725
      January 7, 2007
      1954 Posts
      Offline
      Posted: December 2, 2008, 3:33 am - IP Logged

      in a word that still does not answer my question.

      can the state influence the intial seed via firmware update. the terminals are connected to phone line .

      can they set or stack the deck to choose poor numbers. 

      just because they might use time between different activititys like key strokes either binary or integer to set begining seed this does not make the rng truly random.

       time only only goes forward.

      Dude, who cares what the INITIAL seed is? The initial seed can be anything you want and the rng will create pretty good random numbers. The problem is when you use the same seed over and over again; and the only thing that's gonna do, is make the same numbers come up over and over again, so the clerk would probably stop selling tickets because they think the machine is messed up. Also, there is no fine line between what is truely random and what is not; only DEGREES of randomness. The most simple rng, most of the time, provides numbers that can be considered to be "random enough".

      Gonna win.Big Smile

        pick4hawk's avatar - Trek HAND3.gif

        United States
        Member #19982
        August 9, 2005
        226 Posts
        Offline
        Posted: December 2, 2008, 10:35 am - IP Logged

         who cares what the INITIAL seed is?

        You see, if the initialization is not totally random--then how can you say all things are possible to occur upon output. The inital seed is very important and should be able to be anything betwwen zero and 1, or between whatever int limit.

        yes there is a fine line between what is random and is not. Otherwise there would be no need to use statistical tests to prove randomness.

        Simple rngs have very easy pattern --they are not using an LCG generator sorry.

          Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
          Chief Bottle Washer
          New Jersey
          United States
          Member #1
          May 31, 2000
          23273 Posts
          Online
          Posted: December 2, 2008, 12:30 pm - IP Logged

           who cares what the INITIAL seed is?

          You see, if the initialization is not totally random--then how can you say all things are possible to occur upon output. The inital seed is very important and should be able to be anything betwwen zero and 1, or between whatever int limit.

          yes there is a fine line between what is random and is not. Otherwise there would be no need to use statistical tests to prove randomness.

          Simple rngs have very easy pattern --they are not using an LCG generator sorry.

          OK, this is getting a bit far-fetched.

          At the very least, when someone uses a RNG, they use the computer's built-in system "tick" clock as the new RNG seed value before each use of the RNG.

          The article I posted in the other thread stated that state lotteries use a much more dynamic and unpredictable seed value than that, however. 

          Frankly, the concept of the lottery using a RNG seed value to manipulate ticket combinations is not a viable theory, because it would not work.  You are giving the seed value WAY too much credit for what it's capable of.

          Forcing a seed value for 5- or 6-number lotto games will not create a situation where certain tickets combinations are never generated.  Each seed value is capable of producing every combination of tickets.  It's not like if they use seed value "123456", only 100 different combinations will come out.

          A seed value is the start of a series of random numbers.  That series is millions, or even billions, of numbers long, depending on the bit-length of the CPU and embedded microcode.

          Lottery machines do in fact continue rotating the seed values every time the Quick Picks are generated, so this whole discussion is not grounded in reality.

          But even if they didn't change the seed (or used one particular seed), the pattern STILL would not be predictable because the lottery machine in used continuously for tickets of different matrix sizes and quantities of numbers because many different types of games are sold.

          That's why I started this thread a long time ago by saying that there are much better, more realistic battles to fight.  You're aiming at the wrong target! 

          If you want to criticize a real area of concern, it would be computerized drawings

          That's because computerized drawings are the one thing that the lottery (or an insider) has the capability of manipulating and rigging the outcome.  I am not saying that it is definitely happening, but I can say with confidence that it can happen, and that there is no way that the lottery can eliminate every possibility of fraudulent computerized drawings.

          Computerized drawings have a track record of massive long-term failure.  What else is there to say?

          If every lottery player were to focus their criticism on this one area of valid concern, perhaps we could force the lotteries to re-establish real drawings.

           

          Check the State Lottery Report Card
          What grade did your lottery earn?

           

          Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
          Help eliminate computerized drawings!

            Guru101's avatar - rw6jhh
            Indiana
            United States
            Member #48725
            January 7, 2007
            1954 Posts
            Offline
            Posted: December 2, 2008, 2:25 pm - IP Logged

            Thank you Todd. I was too lazy to post the "technical mumbo jumbo" as my IT instructor calls it.

            Gonna win.Big Smile

              pick4hawk's avatar - Trek HAND3.gif

              United States
              Member #19982
              August 9, 2005
              226 Posts
              Offline
              Posted: December 3, 2008, 10:45 am - IP Logged

              okay believe whatever you wish. However if you new a friend who knows the guts of the terminals- who would you believe?

                Think's avatar - lightbulb
                Marquette, MI
                United States
                Member #20541
                August 20, 2005
                705 Posts
                Offline
                Posted: December 4, 2008, 11:58 am - IP Logged

                Knowing the guts of the terminals, has your friend ever won anything big on an ez pick?

                Does your friend play ez picks?

                  Avatar
                  NY
                  United States
                  Member #23835
                  October 16, 2005
                  3474 Posts
                  Offline
                  Posted: December 4, 2008, 2:16 pm - IP Logged

                  okay believe whatever you wish. However if you new a friend who knows the guts of the terminals- who would you believe?

                  I once knew a guy who had worked at Publisher's Clearing House, and he was sure you couldn't win if you didn't order a magazne, because "the first thing they do when entries come in is sort them into order and no-order piles." Um, sparky, do you suppose that would make it easier to process the orders?

                  If your friend isn't thoroughly famliar with the RNG code, what he knows is meaningless. Even if he's familiar with the code, what he thinks may not make any sense.

                  Still, for the sake of the argument, let's assume that 10% of combinations can't come up as QP's. For most drawings, sales are less than 10% of the possible combinations, anyway. All things being equal, that would mean that when sales were at exactly 10% of the number of combinations only 1% would be missing, if 100% of sales were QP. Since QP's account for about 70% of sales we could expect 0.7% of combinations to be missingbecause of your not-so-random RNG.  Then the lottery would hold a drawing, which is going to be random. If they only sell 10% of combinations (and it would actually be less, since there will always be some duplication), then there's a 90% chance that the winning combination won't have been sold, anyway. Eliminating 0.7% of the combinations would increase the chances that nobody wins to a whopping 90.7%. How paranoid or gullible do you have to be to believe the lottery is conspiring to give themselves that kind of "edge"?

                    Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
                    Chief Bottle Washer
                    New Jersey
                    United States
                    Member #1
                    May 31, 2000
                    23273 Posts
                    Online
                    Posted: December 4, 2008, 3:21 pm - IP Logged

                    okay believe whatever you wish. However if you new a friend who knows the guts of the terminals- who would you believe?

                    You obviously haven't read my posts.

                    I took great care to lay everything out fully, so that not only would the concepts be clear, but also the way I came to know about these things.

                    In more than one post I wrote about my knowledge of the lottery machines, and where it comes from.

                    If you read my posts, you would not be asking that question.

                    Someone who truly wants to learn about a subject will not skip around to the parts they believe and ignore what they disagree with; they will learn another's viewpoint fully, and then assess the situation with all the facts at hand.

                    Some call that the "road to enlightenment".  There are no shortcuts.

                     

                    Check the State Lottery Report Card
                    What grade did your lottery earn?

                     

                    Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
                    Help eliminate computerized drawings!

                      pick4hawk's avatar - Trek HAND3.gif

                      United States
                      Member #19982
                      August 9, 2005
                      226 Posts
                      Offline
                      Posted: December 5, 2008, 10:39 am - IP Logged

                      if the lottery has nothing to hide then they should release a schmatic and the truth of there update procedure. If the state is really on the up and up.

                      If the terminals are proven to be influenced by an outside daily frimware update-- why trust them.

                      I would like to see tickets generated totally indepentantly. No outside influence possible. 

                      Honesty is the best policy. As I do not live in texas, I have not seen the inside or worked on their

                      equipment. All states are not the same. I just wish there was more rules governing them.   

                        pick4hawk's avatar - Trek HAND3.gif

                        United States
                        Member #19982
                        August 9, 2005
                        226 Posts
                        Offline
                        Posted: December 5, 2008, 11:32 am - IP Logged

                        Is it very easy to create a pool of numbers least likely to occur?
                        Then to restrict the rng to derive sets of numbers from that pool.

                        Ask your self if it is feasible. If they have the opportunity or allowed it --would they use it?

                        Most states have added new games during the year. The terminals must be updated for the new games to print the tickets.


                        Wouldn't that be a clue, that the machine has to way handshaking or two way comunication.
                        I want the machine to have only one way comumication out bound only.

                          Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
                          Chief Bottle Washer
                          New Jersey
                          United States
                          Member #1
                          May 31, 2000
                          23273 Posts
                          Online
                          Posted: December 5, 2008, 11:50 am - IP Logged

                          if the lottery has nothing to hide then they should release a schmatic and the truth of there update procedure. If the state is really on the up and up.

                          If the terminals are proven to be influenced by an outside daily frimware update-- why trust them.

                          I would like to see tickets generated totally indepentantly. No outside influence possible. 

                          Honesty is the best policy. As I do not live in texas, I have not seen the inside or worked on their

                          equipment. All states are not the same. I just wish there was more rules governing them.   

                          They are generated independently, that the whole point.

                          Frankly from what I can see, you will never be satisfied, and will never address any point that I have written.

                          Maybe you can enlighten us all on your source of information that the lottery sends "daily firmware updates".

                          Do you even know what a firmware update is?  Doesn't sound like it, and it doesn't sound like you understand how a lottery machine works.

                          Lack of understanding breeds uncertainty and doubt.  I started this thread to help spread truthful, correct information, and instead of learning from it, you are using the opportunity to spread your false, concocted  information.

                           

                          Check the State Lottery Report Card
                          What grade did your lottery earn?

                           

                          Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
                          Help eliminate computerized drawings!

                            RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
                            mid-Ohio
                            United States
                            Member #9
                            March 24, 2001
                            19830 Posts
                            Offline
                            Posted: December 5, 2008, 11:58 am - IP Logged

                            Is it very easy to create a pool of numbers least likely to occur?
                            Then to restrict the rng to derive sets of numbers from that pool.

                            Ask your self if it is feasible. If they have the opportunity or allowed it --would they use it?

                            Most states have added new games during the year. The terminals must be updated for the new games to print the tickets.


                            Wouldn't that be a clue, that the machine has to way handshaking or two way comunication.
                            I want the machine to have only one way comumication out bound only.

                            Every lottery terminal prints tickets for all the games a state has including its multi-state games.  In Ohio that covers more than 20 different games.  With over 2000 terminals printing out tickets with 5-10 combinations for those games at the same time, do you really think one computer could communicate with them all in the time it takes to print a ticket?

                             * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
                               
                                         Evil Looking       

                              Think's avatar - lightbulb
                              Marquette, MI
                              United States
                              Member #20541
                              August 20, 2005
                              705 Posts
                              Offline
                              Posted: December 5, 2008, 9:38 pm - IP Logged

                              if the lottery has nothing to hide then they should release a schmatic and the truth of there update procedure. If the state is really on the up and up.

                              If the terminals are proven to be influenced by an outside daily frimware update-- why trust them.

                              I would like to see tickets generated totally indepentantly. No outside influence possible. 

                              Honesty is the best policy. As I do not live in texas, I have not seen the inside or worked on their

                              equipment. All states are not the same. I just wish there was more rules governing them.   

                              Nobody says you have to use the lottery terminals for your rng quick picks.

                              Find an RNG quick picker that you like and fill out the bet slips with those numbers.

                              Problem solved.