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Lottery Pool/Club

Topic closed. 32 replies. Last post 8 years ago by lottomania.

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tdempsey's avatar - Lottery-060.jpg
Atlanta, GA
United States
Member #3480
January 24, 2004
51 Posts
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Posted: January 18, 2009, 1:25 am - IP Logged

Hi!

My name is Tom Dempsey in Pensacola, Florida and I am seriously considering starting a Lottery Pool/Club for the Florida games.

I'm sure this idea has come up several times but I do not see the threads from before discussing the plans

As most people know, the more you play, the more you win - with a good, organized filtering scheme. But I have limited money to invest each week to make the BIG plays.

My idea is for pools of drawings:

- 10 players in each pool paying $10 per draw (myself being one) to make buys of $100 a pool - one player per pool to be fair - and having several pools each draw. For games like Florida Lotto, Mega-Money and Fantasy 5 I would like to see a $20 a week investment (poolers play the 2 draws that week). The smaller amounts would roll over into the next pool draws while bigger winnings would paid out to the players in the pool that week.

I also see doing 90% picked and 10% quick pick for these pools.

- For Powerball, I am seeing an open-ended membership since the jackpot is usually so large - with a possible limit or separate pools if it gets more members.

I have researched some other pools and wondered if it is legal to charge a fee for withdrawing earnings or even charging a processing fee of about 1% on jackpot wins? My understanding is a person cannot make money on the lottery but I'm not sure about the processing fees.

I only consider fees because of the work I have put into my filtering programs and PayPal fees. (The filter program would be open to inspection possible with different pools using different filer plans.) 

As for my filter program, I believe it has come a long way in the last 8 years. It is open for inspection by pool members but most of the theories are elementary with a few exceptions.

Let me know what others feel about this idea. I am ready to go live February 1, 2009 and would like to get the ball rolling. I have several interested members in Pensacola but would like see this expand.

Of course trust is an issue here and I would send scanned copies of the pooled tickets emailed before the draws as well as an elaborate reporting system. I am a full-time web programmer.

Any other ideas on how to address the trust issue would be appreciated.

Cheers!

Tom Dempsey

Pensacola, FL

    Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
    Chief Bottle Washer
    New Jersey
    United States
    Member #1
    May 31, 2000
    23262 Posts
    Online
    Posted: January 18, 2009, 1:36 pm - IP Logged

    Hi!

    My name is Tom Dempsey in Pensacola, Florida and I am seriously considering starting a Lottery Pool/Club for the Florida games.

    I'm sure this idea has come up several times but I do not see the threads from before discussing the plans

    As most people know, the more you play, the more you win - with a good, organized filtering scheme. But I have limited money to invest each week to make the BIG plays.

    My idea is for pools of drawings:

    - 10 players in each pool paying $10 per draw (myself being one) to make buys of $100 a pool - one player per pool to be fair - and having several pools each draw. For games like Florida Lotto, Mega-Money and Fantasy 5 I would like to see a $20 a week investment (poolers play the 2 draws that week). The smaller amounts would roll over into the next pool draws while bigger winnings would paid out to the players in the pool that week.

    I also see doing 90% picked and 10% quick pick for these pools.

    - For Powerball, I am seeing an open-ended membership since the jackpot is usually so large - with a possible limit or separate pools if it gets more members.

    I have researched some other pools and wondered if it is legal to charge a fee for withdrawing earnings or even charging a processing fee of about 1% on jackpot wins? My understanding is a person cannot make money on the lottery but I'm not sure about the processing fees.

    I only consider fees because of the work I have put into my filtering programs and PayPal fees. (The filter program would be open to inspection possible with different pools using different filer plans.) 

    As for my filter program, I believe it has come a long way in the last 8 years. It is open for inspection by pool members but most of the theories are elementary with a few exceptions.

    Let me know what others feel about this idea. I am ready to go live February 1, 2009 and would like to get the ball rolling. I have several interested members in Pensacola but would like see this expand.

    Of course trust is an issue here and I would send scanned copies of the pooled tickets emailed before the draws as well as an elaborate reporting system. I am a full-time web programmer.

    Any other ideas on how to address the trust issue would be appreciated.

    Cheers!

    Tom Dempsey

    Pensacola, FL

    Please don't use Lottery Post to advertise a lottery pool.  Nobody knows you, and you can easily be scamming people.  It doesn't matter how sincere you sound, because scammers are very good at sounding sincere.  That's how they scam people.

    The only answer is don't use LP for this purpose, no matter what.

    If you feel you need to advertise a lottery pool, pay for some advertising at Google, Yahoo, or something like that.

    Same goes for lottery software.

    Thanks.

     

    Check the State Lottery Report Card
    What grade did your lottery earn?

     

    Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
    Help eliminate computerized drawings!

      tdempsey's avatar - Lottery-060.jpg
      Atlanta, GA
      United States
      Member #3480
      January 24, 2004
      51 Posts
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      Posted: January 18, 2009, 5:20 pm - IP Logged

      My bad - just looking for some input. You make a good point, though.

      Tom Dempsey

        BobP's avatar - bobp avatar.png
        Dump Water Florida
        United States
        Member #380
        June 5, 2002
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        Posted: January 18, 2009, 5:52 pm - IP Logged

        IMHO there are only two legitimate reasons to start a lottery pool or club.

        1. You are convinced the weekly purchase of X number of Quick Picks beyond your personal budget is what's necessary to win a jackpot.

        2. Your research and on paper plays have provided you with a strategy likely to win if only you could afford X number of lines to play per draw over time.

        An honest club uses every dollar for the purchase of tickets.   The club owner (who must pay for plays too)  handles the paper work and ticket purchases in return for using other people's money to further the strategy.

        As I understand it and you might want to call and check with the Florida Lottery to see if anything has changed.  You can not charge more then the face value of a lottery ticket no matter how you divide it up or sell shares in it.  Anything else is ticket scalping. 

        PayPal does not handle anything to do with gambling.  Once they get wind you are moving money for the purpose of buying lottery tickets and paying lottery winnings your account is gone.

        BobP

          BuyLow's avatar - palm tree.jpg
          Florida
          United States
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          May 22, 2008
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          Posted: January 18, 2009, 6:12 pm - IP Logged

          Play on your own.  The difference in odds is negligible...........and the lack of headaches is priceless. 


            Canada
            Member #68663
            December 27, 2008
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            Posted: January 18, 2009, 9:24 pm - IP Logged

            Play on your own.  The difference in odds is negligible...........and the lack of headaches is priceless. 

            That is one of the biggest falacies promoted by people who do not like group play. Or maybe, people who are disappointed when they see most large jackpots are won by groups.

            I have joined some groups for an upcoming 649 draw. My odds of hitting the jackpot is close to 1 in 15,000. Those are great odds. And my share of the jackpot is at least $1 million after taxes.

            So the difference in odds is far from negligible.

              RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
              mid-Ohio
              United States
              Member #9
              March 24, 2001
              19825 Posts
              Online
              Posted: January 18, 2009, 9:46 pm - IP Logged

              The odds of winning a 649 games are 1:13,983,816.  If you've managed to reduce your odds of winning a jackpot to 1:15,000 then you and your pool buddies are buying a thousand tickets per drawing.  If you're buying that many tickets per drawing your odds of winning are going to improve significantly whether you're in a pool or not.

               * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
                 
                           Evil Looking       


                Canada
                Member #68663
                December 27, 2008
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                Posted: January 18, 2009, 11:07 pm - IP Logged

                The odds of winning a 649 games are 1:13,983,816.  If you've managed to reduce your odds of winning a jackpot to 1:15,000 then you and your pool buddies are buying a thousand tickets per drawing.  If you're buying that many tickets per drawing your odds of winning are going to improve significantly whether you're in a pool or not.

                That is the whole point. Only by joining a pool can one be part of a purchase of 1,000 tickets. No way would I spend that much myself. By the way, not every drawing. Just  when the jackpot is large.

                  Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
                  Chief Bottle Washer
                  New Jersey
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                  Posted: January 18, 2009, 11:20 pm - IP Logged

                  That is the whole point. Only by joining a pool can one be part of a purchase of 1,000 tickets. No way would I spend that much myself. By the way, not every drawing. Just  when the jackpot is large.

                  That's just the point!

                  By splitting a large jackpot so many ways, there is no point to wait, and there's no point to playing with other people.  Your risk-to-reward ratio is no better!

                  In other words, just go ahead and not only play solo, but do so on low drawings and high drawings.  You're in more drawings, improving your chances of a hit, and when you hit you're not sharing with anyone else.

                  I know that concept can be hard to wrap your head around, but because you're dealing with such large numbers and slim odds, it's a different ballgame.

                   

                  Check the State Lottery Report Card
                  What grade did your lottery earn?

                   

                  Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
                  Help eliminate computerized drawings!

                    Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
                    Chief Bottle Washer
                    New Jersey
                    United States
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                    Posted: January 18, 2009, 11:21 pm - IP Logged

                    Keep in mind, I think it's great to socially play in a pool with some buddies, but not if the goal is tracking a win over time.  Just for fun only!

                     

                    Check the State Lottery Report Card
                    What grade did your lottery earn?

                     

                    Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
                    Help eliminate computerized drawings!


                      Canada
                      Member #68663
                      December 27, 2008
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                      Posted: January 19, 2009, 12:48 am - IP Logged

                      That's just the point!

                      By splitting a large jackpot so many ways, there is no point to wait, and there's no point to playing with other people.  Your risk-to-reward ratio is no better!

                      In other words, just go ahead and not only play solo, but do so on low drawings and high drawings.  You're in more drawings, improving your chances of a hit, and when you hit you're not sharing with anyone else.

                      I know that concept can be hard to wrap your head around, but because you're dealing with such large numbers and slim odds, it's a different ballgame.

                      Todd, you appear to be missing the point on many levels.

                      1. Winning a million dollars is exactly the point. And that is after a pool split and after taxes.

                      2. The risk reward is best under two conditions. One, large jackpots (winning money contributed in previous draws) and two, playing in a pool.

                      3. The only way to improve ones chances is to buy lots of tickets. Best way and most economical way is to play in a pool.

                      4. Large numbers and slim odds does not make it a different balgame. It is mathematics. Nothing more, nothing less. Not a ballgame.


                        Canada
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                        Posted: January 19, 2009, 12:49 am - IP Logged

                        And the last point. Yes, I do it for fun. Winning a million bucks is what I call fun.

                          BobP's avatar - bobp avatar.png
                          Dump Water Florida
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                          Posted: January 19, 2009, 1:47 am - IP Logged

                          Todd, you appear to be missing the point on many levels.

                          1. Winning a million dollars is exactly the point. And that is after a pool split and after taxes.

                          2. The risk reward is best under two conditions. One, large jackpots (winning money contributed in previous draws) and two, playing in a pool.

                          3. The only way to improve ones chances is to buy lots of tickets. Best way and most economical way is to play in a pool.

                          4. Large numbers and slim odds does not make it a different balgame. It is mathematics. Nothing more, nothing less. Not a ballgame.

                          The average supermarket in Florida sells more lottery tickets in a day then a club would buy for a draw.  If you had all those tickets you would have the same odds as there are of that supermarket posting a notice a day after the draw they had a jackpot winner.   How often does your ticket seller sell a jackpot winning ticket?

                          There is a huge difference between improving the odds and actually ending up holding a winning ticket.   I can cut the odds in half by buying two tickets, but they are still two in twenty three million playing the Florida Lottery.

                          When you consider many lottery players use a strategy that virtually guarantees they must lose 99 out of 100 draws, buying more tickets isn't the answer, especially if you don't know what you are doing.

                          BobP

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                            October 16, 2005
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                            Posted: January 19, 2009, 4:14 am - IP Logged

                            That's just the point!

                            By splitting a large jackpot so many ways, there is no point to wait, and there's no point to playing with other people.  Your risk-to-reward ratio is no better!

                            In other words, just go ahead and not only play solo, but do so on low drawings and high drawings.  You're in more drawings, improving your chances of a hit, and when you hit you're not sharing with anyone else.

                            I know that concept can be hard to wrap your head around, but because you're dealing with such large numbers and slim odds, it's a different ballgame.

                            Your risk to reward ratio isn't any worse by playing in a pool, either. I'd say that makes it strictly a matter of personal preference. There's no objective basis for saying one is better than the other.

                            OTOH, by suggesting that somebody switch from playing in a pool when jackpots are large to playing solo regardless of jackpot size you're suggesting  that they make a deliberate choice to increase their risk relative to the reward. Why spend $1 for a 1 in 20 million chance of winning $5 million if the same $1 can get you a 1 in 2 million chance of winning the same amount? Not playing for 10% in a pool when the jackpot is $200 million because you'd only get 10% is rather foolish if you routinely play on your own for $20 million.

                            FWIW, simply being in more drawings doesn't increase your chances of winning. It's having more chances that increases your chance of winning. With the odds in lottery games it's a very small advantage, but you're better off with 100 chances on 1 drawing than you are with 1 chance in each of 100 drawings. By concentrating your chances on larger jackpots you're doing that much more to improve your risk to reward ratio.

                              Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
                              Chief Bottle Washer
                              New Jersey
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                              Posted: January 19, 2009, 9:53 am - IP Logged

                              Your risk to reward ratio isn't any worse by playing in a pool, either. I'd say that makes it strictly a matter of personal preference. There's no objective basis for saying one is better than the other.

                              OTOH, by suggesting that somebody switch from playing in a pool when jackpots are large to playing solo regardless of jackpot size you're suggesting  that they make a deliberate choice to increase their risk relative to the reward. Why spend $1 for a 1 in 20 million chance of winning $5 million if the same $1 can get you a 1 in 2 million chance of winning the same amount? Not playing for 10% in a pool when the jackpot is $200 million because you'd only get 10% is rather foolish if you routinely play on your own for $20 million.

                              FWIW, simply being in more drawings doesn't increase your chances of winning. It's having more chances that increases your chance of winning. With the odds in lottery games it's a very small advantage, but you're better off with 100 chances on 1 drawing than you are with 1 chance in each of 100 drawings. By concentrating your chances on larger jackpots you're doing that much more to improve your risk to reward ratio.

                              I'm not telling anyone what to do.  I'm offering some good advice, and it's up to the person reading to decide wat to do with it.

                              Like BobP said (in a much better way than I did), the odds are so slim no matter which way you go.  Playing solo is better from a risk-to-reward standpoint. 

                              Having a thousand tickets for one drawing gives you a better chance of winning, but ever so slightly, and any minisule edge gained does not even the risk-to-reward ratio. 

                              The whole point of playing in a drawing with a big jackpot is to win a big jackpot -- but if you're playing in a pool you're NOT playing for a big jackpot.  You're playing for your split of the jackpot, which ends up being a regular-sized jackpot (maybe less).

                               

                              Check the State Lottery Report Card
                              What grade did your lottery earn?

                               

                              Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
                              Help eliminate computerized drawings!