More Calif. stores accused of stealing customers' lottery prizes

Mar 6, 2009, 7:59 am (22 comments)

California Lottery

Perhaps you're not quite as unlucky in the lottery as you thought.

That scratcher ticket you tossed? Well, it just might have been a winner — with the cash prize going to none other than the store owner or clerk you passed it off to as garbage.

Ten retailers and clerks are accused of trying to cash in customers' winning lottery tickets at three locations in San Jose, two in Milpitas and one in Santa Clara. Nine people were arrested Tuesday on suspicion of felony grand theft of lottery tickets with one warrant pending.

As part of a statewide sting to crack down on unscrupulous clerks and store owners, undercover California Lottery investigators went to several retailers in Santa Clara County in December and handed the clerks a decoy winning $1,000 scratcher, asking if they had won. At five of the stores, the clerks told the investigators that the ticket was not a winner and then went on to file a claim with the California Lottery as if the winning ticket was theirs.

The owners and clerks that were arrested face fines and possibly prison time, if convicted. In those instances in which the suspects also were the owners, the California Lottery terminated its contract with the retailer.

"We want to send a message to anyone else that this type of behavior is not to be tolerated and we're coming after you," said Alex Traverso, spokesman for the California Lottery.

California Lottery officials began the stings about 15 months ago across the state, which has more than 20,000 authorized retailers.

"We wanted to make a more concerted effort to protect the integrity of our business and to make sure our customers are being treated fairly," Traverso said. He did not know how many stores investigators visited in Santa Clara County, but said it was more than the five where violations were found.

Traverso urged customers who play the lottery to always sign the back of the ticket so that no one else can pass it off as their own.

Stores where arrests were made:

  • Jerry's Market, 1491 S. Main St. in Milpitas. Owner Aslam Hussain Ali was arrested. A warrant is pending for his daughter, clerk Tanya Aslam Hussain. His lottery contract was terminated.
  • Mercado y Carniceria Moreno, 1075 Tully Road, San Jose. Clerk Miguel Angel Teran and his son, Renato Moreno Teran were both arrested. No charges have been filed against the owner at this time, but the contract was terminated due to sufficient cause.
  • 4th Street Bowl, 1441 N. Fourth St., San Jose. Clerk Nick Garcia Jr and Monique Duran were both arrested. Contract not terminated.
  • Guru's, 404 N. 13th St., San Jose. Owner Harduman Singh Sanghera and clerk Joginder Singh Chahal were both arrested. Lottery contracts at seven locations owned by Sanghera were terminated.

Santa Clara County sheriffs and the Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control made the arrests, which were all in Santa Clara County.

Each of the crimes amounts to grand theft. All the suspects were accused of cheating Lottery customers.

"While these crimes involve only a small number of our more than 20,000 authorized retailers, we demand that all our retailers be fair and honest," California Lottery director Joan Borucki said. "The Lottery will not tolerate those who deceive our players and compromise the integrity of Lottery games."

In the Santa Clara County operation, undercover investigators posing as customers handed clerks decoy winning tickets and asked if they had won.

In some instances, the clerks told the investigators that their ticket was not a winner.  The suspects then went on to file a claim with the Lottery as if the winning tickets were theirs.

Lottery officials said the organization has one of the largest forces of sworn peace officers of any Lottery in the nation.

More than 95 cents of every Lottery dollar is returned to the community in the form of contributions to education, prizes and retail commissions, according to officials.

Since its inception in 1985, the Lottery has contributed nearly $21 billion to California schools out of total sales of more than $56 billion.

San Jose Mercury News, NBC, Lottery Post Staff

Comments

Bradly_60's avatarBradly_60

Interesting that all the names are not traditional American names.

CowboysFan's avatarCowboysFan

Just another reason why it's important to know exactly how much money you actually won before you go claim it.

MaddMike51

Quote: Originally posted by Bradly_60 on Mar 6, 2009

Interesting that all the names are not traditional American names.

What would be a tradional American name?I'm a fourth generation American and have an Irish surname.How many generations does a persons family have to live in America before they have a traditional American name?

 

Back to the story.All California needs to do is require that all tickets be signed before they can be checked or cashed.Iowa started doing this last year and it seems to be working.At first it was a pain in the butt to sign every ticket,but now its second nature and a crooked clerk has no incentive to steal your ticket because they couldn't cash a big one if they wanted to.

gocart1's avatargocart1

Quote: Originally posted by MaddMike51 on Mar 6, 2009

What would be a tradional American name?I'm a fourth generation American and have an Irish surname.How many generations does a persons family have to live in America before they have a traditional American name?

 

Back to the story.All California needs to do is require that all tickets be signed before they can be checked or cashed.Iowa started doing this last year and it seems to be working.At first it was a pain in the butt to sign every ticket,but now its second nature and a crooked clerk has no incentive to steal your ticket because they couldn't cash a big one if they wanted to.

Thats a great idea Iowa has for lottery tickets..First time i'm hearing of it..Thanks MaddMike...I Agree!PartyUS FlagParty

LckyLary

I sometimes find scratch-offs that I double-check them and turn out to be winners of small prizes i.e. $3 or $5. Once even I found a Mega ticket in a parking lot (at night) and was for a future drawing and it matched 3 of 5. I have a program that can double-check Crossword tickets I find. If I found a big winner though I would turn it in but take photos of it first to prove I found it. I see how people play they buy dozens at once and rush through them. How they can check a Crossword game by not even marking most of the letters, is amazing. Other times they forget to scratch the "bonus prize" box or not understand that if you get a certain symbol it is also a prize.

SmoothJuice

Quote: Originally posted by Bradly_60 on Mar 6, 2009

Interesting that all the names are not traditional American names.

... that's what I noticed too.

Budaguy

All these stories of clerks making off with stolen winnings would be moot if all the lotteries would buy machines with an LCD screen facing the customer.  The retailer I frequent here in Kentucky has one as an add-on on his lotto machine.  There is never a doubt if I've won or lost because it is plainly displayed for all to see.  I've often wondered why the states lotteries haven't upgraded to these superior machines over the years and the only reason I could come up with is the lotteries don't want us to see for their own dark reasons.

Badger's avatarBadger

As the economy/unemployment continues to get worse in a broken system, there will likely be many more people that are looking to steal anything to maintain their life style; whatever it may be.  We have a desparate situation that doesn't seem to be looking to change for the foreseeable future.  The Stimulus plan isn't going to do it.

time*treat's avatartime*treat

Quote: Originally posted by Badger on Mar 7, 2009

As the economy/unemployment continues to get worse in a broken system, there will likely be many more people that are looking to steal anything to maintain their life style; whatever it may be.  We have a desparate situation that doesn't seem to be looking to change for the foreseeable future.  The Stimulus plan isn't going to do it.

As someone said "Good people will begin to do bad things and bad people won't wait."

Where are they going to put these people, though? Cali jails are so full, they are threatening to let out some of the ones they already have.

charmed7's avatarcharmed7

Wow, that sucks   Some people will do anything for money.  I can see

if the scratch off was in the garbage, but to tell them they were LOSER,

NO thanks, jail is not on my list of places to visit. Paris Jail Sentence

Badger's avatarBadger

Quote: Originally posted by time*treat on Mar 7, 2009

As someone said "Good people will begin to do bad things and bad people won't wait."

Where are they going to put these people, though? Cali jails are so full, they are threatening to let out some of the ones they already have.

Our governor is doing the same thing in his proposed budget.  He wants to let out the "non violent" convicts; like the drug dealers.   Disapprove

maringoman's avatarmaringoman

"Interesting that all the names are not traditional American names."

 

That comment reeks of bigotry. I never knew there is a set of names that make some people more American than others. And would Native American names like CHOLENA, KALISKA, HURIT, KIMAMA, MALILA be considered "traditional American names?"  People who are dishonest come in all shape, size and name type.

diamondpalace's avatardiamondpalace

This is greed and ignorance mixed into one.

Phokas

Quote: Originally posted by Bradly_60 on Mar 6, 2009

Interesting that all the names are not traditional American names.

Hey Sherlock, in your amateur attempt to start racially profiling people by all means share with the rest of us what your pathetic idea is of "traditional American names." You no doubt think it is anyone who can trace their family tree back to the FOREIGN  British Isles. The dimwit George Bush would certainly fit your profile of the "traditional American." Being from Michigan tell us how you and your fellow citizens there are prospering from the policies carried out by "traditional Americans" like the WASP Bush.

It is obvious you conveniently forget that the Americas (North, Central and South) were already populated long before West Europeans crossed the Atlantic without any proper documentation, squatted here, and then used weapons to plunder and commit massacres. Sounds like the activity of a street gang doesn't it? Your so called "traditional Americans" were nothing more than illegal aliens. Nothing more than selfish, economic migrants who committed crimes against the local population who lived here for centuries. That's reality and it doesn't matter if this part of history is conveniently left out of the curriculum in your local school district or if bigoted people like you prefer to plant your empty heads in the sand and live in denial. 

savagegoose's avatarsavagegoose

it has to be said

 

GRAND THEFT LOTTO

Kaptainess's avatarKaptainess

Quote: Originally posted by maringoman on Mar 7, 2009

"Interesting that all the names are not traditional American names."

 

That comment reeks of bigotry. I never knew there is a set of names that make some people more American than others. And would Native American names like CHOLENA, KALISKA, HURIT, KIMAMA, MALILA be considered "traditional American names?"  People who are dishonest come in all shape, size and name type.

Sorry this is off topic.

Okay EVERYONE - Let's NOT be like AOL boards and keep it SANE here PLEASE!   I am horrified with the amount of trash that is thrown about on AOL.   We here on Lottery Post are a small community of decent folks, adults, well meaning to each other.   That is why I really enjoy being on this site, never had a bad word or thought for anyone here, and I hope no one has one for me.

We are here to help one another, to beat the lottery, not beat up on ourselves.  This is a WONDERFUL SITE for common interests and polite friendships.  I would be dismayed to see things change on this site because a few folks used a few words that were said that was a mistake.

I don't care what your personal background is, your color, your religion, your sexual preferences, your income, where you came from, nada.  We are all the same, human beings. 

We are Lottery Post Buddies!!   There isn't another site online that I can say that is like this site, and I have been online since 1992. This site is special.  Can't we all just get along please? 

If you need a place to vent anger and hostility the best place to go is AOL boards.  But use caution because I report to AOL all the time.

dpoly1's avatardpoly1

I thought that only "The Rich" (people making over $250,000 a year No Pity!) were greedy !!

It seems from this story that anyone can be greedy !!

randommusings

The store I usually frequent has the screen facing customers so they can see if they won anything. In fact, I think all of the places I've been to have....but then, I'm in NC, and the lotto is pretty new here, so it wuld stand to reason that its newer equipment...

jarasan's avatarjarasan

Quote: Originally posted by Phokas on Mar 8, 2009

Hey Sherlock, in your amateur attempt to start racially profiling people by all means share with the rest of us what your pathetic idea is of "traditional American names." You no doubt think it is anyone who can trace their family tree back to the FOREIGN  British Isles. The dimwit George Bush would certainly fit your profile of the "traditional American." Being from Michigan tell us how you and your fellow citizens there are prospering from the policies carried out by "traditional Americans" like the WASP Bush.

It is obvious you conveniently forget that the Americas (North, Central and South) were already populated long before West Europeans crossed the Atlantic without any proper documentation, squatted here, and then used weapons to plunder and commit massacres. Sounds like the activity of a street gang doesn't it? Your so called "traditional Americans" were nothing more than illegal aliens. Nothing more than selfish, economic migrants who committed crimes against the local population who lived here for centuries. That's reality and it doesn't matter if this part of history is conveniently left out of the curriculum in your local school district or if bigoted people like you prefer to plant your empty heads in the sand and live in denial. 

Looks like you got the traditional,  anti-American, rewritten, hateful, verison of the history of the greatest USAmerican country ever to exist on this Mother Earth.

Your phokas is living in the past and hating a past you never endured.

You have narrow, intolerant,  angry, talking points of someone that hates America, you want America to fail.

The first clue you are a hater,  live to hate, and don't know facts, are your comments about GWBush and Michigan.   GWBush liberated millions of people,  spearheaded the greatest influx of money to AIDS research aid to the world,  and had more than 4 years of economic growth after a declaration of war that killed 3,500 Americans.  Michigan is a great state managed into turmoil thru political involvement in state fiscal policies.

Bradley made an observation, I have a traditional South American name, that came from a traditional European country,  I take no offense at what Bradley said.  I don't care what your background is but you certainly have some very thin skin.

And the most beautiful thing is that you have the right to write, say, and believe whatever your heart desires because you live in the greatest country on Earth.  God bless America.  Enjoy it while you can.

Phokas

Quote: Originally posted by jarasan on Mar 9, 2009

Looks like you got the traditional,  anti-American, rewritten, hateful, verison of the history of the greatest USAmerican country ever to exist on this Mother Earth.

Your phokas is living in the past and hating a past you never endured.

You have narrow, intolerant,  angry, talking points of someone that hates America, you want America to fail.

The first clue you are a hater,  live to hate, and don't know facts, are your comments about GWBush and Michigan.   GWBush liberated millions of people,  spearheaded the greatest influx of money to AIDS research aid to the world,  and had more than 4 years of economic growth after a declaration of war that killed 3,500 Americans.  Michigan is a great state managed into turmoil thru political involvement in state fiscal policies.

Bradley made an observation, I have a traditional South American name, that came from a traditional European country,  I take no offense at what Bradley said.  I don't care what your background is but you certainly have some very thin skin.

And the most beautiful thing is that you have the right to write, say, and believe whatever your heart desires because you live in the greatest country on Earth.  God bless America.  Enjoy it while you can.

You are clearly unsettled that I called out a bigot on here for his unacceptable comment. Your posting confirms you become indignant and squirm with insecurity when someone like me comes along and challenges everything you were told by others to believe in and that you accepted wholeheartedly without question. And your response when challenged? Throw out totally unrelated and unfounded phrases like "you want America to fail" in a desperate attempt to salvage your sick views by waving a flag. Cries of patriotism won't rally others to support you when it is obvious you flatly don't even comprehend the true ideals of equality and freedom that America and its citizens are always striving for. You opine that I am living in the past without demonstrating why you believe this to be so and yet in your case you find comfort in ignoring the past by failing to acknowledge the reality of it and offering erroneous and disjointed counterpoints instead.

If you want to play the role of a cheerleader and apologist for despicable posters like  Bradly_60 that is your business but you need to know that your foolish remarks confirm just that - you are a fool. You must be deeply grateful for blabber-mouth fascists like Limbaugh, Hannity and O'Reilly who give you laughable talking points to repeat and strew like garbage on message boards like this. Talk about classic neocon parroting!

You wrongly state that I don't know the facts. But you assume you do know the facts. Since facts are important to you let's look at the facts you posted. You talk about a "declaration of war that killed 3,500 Americans." What war are you talking about? If you are referring to the 9/11 attacks on the U.S. the death toll was 2,974 thus making your figure significantly incorrect. If you are talking about combat action in Iraq the current death toll for the U.S. military is 4,257. Your exaggerated figure of 3,500 would only be true if it were early June - in 2007! If you are such an American patriot why didn't you honor the U.S. wounded in Iraq too and list their numbers as well? They put their lives on the line and literally gave up limbs and will suffer with other life-long disabilities just so ilk like you can have freedoms you take for granted. Current total of U.S. wounded in Iraq since combat began: 31,010. Oh, you forgot we are fighting in Afghanistan too. U.S. deaths in Afghanistan to date is 622. And we are not fighting alone. Current total deaths of coalition forces in both Iraq and Afghanistan: 5,671. These figures are from the U.S. Department of Defense so by all means challenge me on them.

These confirmed figures I listed don't take into account the hundreds of thousands if not millions of civilians (women and children included) who have been killed or wounded in both Iraq and Afghanistan all the while that Bush, as YOU pointed out, "liberated millions of people." Really? Where? How many Americans living in the U.S. would feel liberated if on a daily basis they knew with very high probability that they could be among dozens and scores of people to get blown up for just visiting a market to buy food like they do today in Iraq and Afghanistan? That's what you call being liberated? Don't bother carting out that tired, old, neocon chestnut of how Bush "single handedly" prevented further attacks. He did squat because the threat isn't gone.  

If you and Bush were really such patriots who get a warm smile from seeing other people's sons, daughters and spouses go off to die for freedom then why didn't Bush and his blind loyalists like yourself do anything for people living in places like North Korea, Burma, China and Cuba? Are they too foreign for you and thus not deserving of your brand of freedom? Oh let me guess, "we're not the world's policeman." Yeah, right. To say that would mean you believe we can cherry pick our fights and take out only weak countries instead (and still end up in a total morass) and yet foolishly try to convince everyone we are the greatest and most powerful nation "on this Mother Earth." Now that's a joke that just isn't funny!

You are proud that Bush had "4 years of economic growth." Wow! Eight years in office with an inherited surplus and just 4 years of growth. And what an easily blown over house of cards his economy policies turned out to be. Just look at how many trillions of dollars in wealth have been wiped out and millions who have lost their jobs as a result of his administration's laissez faire economic policies and weak if not totally negligent oversight from the Executive Branch agencies (yeah that means under the President not the Congress) like the Treasury and the SEC who are supposed to be ensuring laws that are enacted are enforced. Tax payers pay for these Executive Branch agencies to do the job they were created to do. They are not paid to look the other way. And yes Bush was responsible for them whether you like to hear this fact or not. All of the troubles America now faces started when and because the dimwit Bush was in office. He and people who supported him made America fail! Why else did he have the worst approval ratings of any American president in U.S. history? The electorate may be tolerant but they are not dumb and the dimwit Bush surely wasn't simply misunderstood. The last election was a stunning and total rejection of him and his soulless propaganda. Only the tiny lunatic fringe of his imploded party would still see him as a hero.

Bush tries to claim credit for increasing funding into AIDS research and people like you believe it to be true. In 2008 he called for $30 billion to be spent over the next five years but Congress was already funding money for AIDS projects at that amount anyway. So the funding he called for was actually flat and the spread of HIV/AIDS has continued anyway. The religious fanatic Bush (a Christian in name only; certainly not deed) also restricted most of this money to unrealistic "abstinence and fidelity" programs. This stance was criticized early on in a Government Accountability Report for being confusing and ineffective. While on this point why not  have your buddy  Bradly_60 return your favor and support your posting by coming back on here and agreeing how he thinks it is great that his tax dollars are going off to Africa to fight HIV/AIDS?

Michigan's economy tanked deep into Bush's term and long before the rest of the U.S. started to sink while Bush was still in office. He did nothing to help turn Michigan's economy around and this failure will only cause economic pain to be felt more widely and for longer across the U.S.

Saying you have a "traditional South American name...from a traditional European country" is a ludicrous statement. Explain what a non-traditional European country would be then. You clearly don't realize that hundreds of different ethnic groups have lived over there for centuries and Europe has changed borders numerous times for just as long. And just what is a "traditional South American name...from a traditional European country?" Is it a name from a descendent of the alien conquistadors who committed acts of enslavement and genocide against the indigenous peoples, erasing most of their native identity, and stealing and shipping their wealth back to foreign lands? Or is it someone whose relatives were members of the Nazi party that fled justice by living on the run in various South American countries after the collapse of the Third Reich? 

You had the nerve to hypocritically pass insults by calling me a "hater." It is obvious you are the one who hates to hear the truth.

jarasan's avatarjarasan

Quote: Originally posted by Phokas on Mar 12, 2009

You are clearly unsettled that I called out a bigot on here for his unacceptable comment. Your posting confirms you become indignant and squirm with insecurity when someone like me comes along and challenges everything you were told by others to believe in and that you accepted wholeheartedly without question. And your response when challenged? Throw out totally unrelated and unfounded phrases like "you want America to fail" in a desperate attempt to salvage your sick views by waving a flag. Cries of patriotism won't rally others to support you when it is obvious you flatly don't even comprehend the true ideals of equality and freedom that America and its citizens are always striving for. You opine that I am living in the past without demonstrating why you believe this to be so and yet in your case you find comfort in ignoring the past by failing to acknowledge the reality of it and offering erroneous and disjointed counterpoints instead.

If you want to play the role of a cheerleader and apologist for despicable posters like  Bradly_60 that is your business but you need to know that your foolish remarks confirm just that - you are a fool. You must be deeply grateful for blabber-mouth fascists like Limbaugh, Hannity and O'Reilly who give you laughable talking points to repeat and strew like garbage on message boards like this. Talk about classic neocon parroting!

You wrongly state that I don't know the facts. But you assume you do know the facts. Since facts are important to you let's look at the facts you posted. You talk about a "declaration of war that killed 3,500 Americans." What war are you talking about? If you are referring to the 9/11 attacks on the U.S. the death toll was 2,974 thus making your figure significantly incorrect. If you are talking about combat action in Iraq the current death toll for the U.S. military is 4,257. Your exaggerated figure of 3,500 would only be true if it were early June - in 2007! If you are such an American patriot why didn't you honor the U.S. wounded in Iraq too and list their numbers as well? They put their lives on the line and literally gave up limbs and will suffer with other life-long disabilities just so ilk like you can have freedoms you take for granted. Current total of U.S. wounded in Iraq since combat began: 31,010. Oh, you forgot we are fighting in Afghanistan too. U.S. deaths in Afghanistan to date is 622. And we are not fighting alone. Current total deaths of coalition forces in both Iraq and Afghanistan: 5,671. These figures are from the U.S. Department of Defense so by all means challenge me on them.

These confirmed figures I listed don't take into account the hundreds of thousands if not millions of civilians (women and children included) who have been killed or wounded in both Iraq and Afghanistan all the while that Bush, as YOU pointed out, "liberated millions of people." Really? Where? How many Americans living in the U.S. would feel liberated if on a daily basis they knew with very high probability that they could be among dozens and scores of people to get blown up for just visiting a market to buy food like they do today in Iraq and Afghanistan? That's what you call being liberated? Don't bother carting out that tired, old, neocon chestnut of how Bush "single handedly" prevented further attacks. He did squat because the threat isn't gone.  

If you and Bush were really such patriots who get a warm smile from seeing other people's sons, daughters and spouses go off to die for freedom then why didn't Bush and his blind loyalists like yourself do anything for people living in places like North Korea, Burma, China and Cuba? Are they too foreign for you and thus not deserving of your brand of freedom? Oh let me guess, "we're not the world's policeman." Yeah, right. To say that would mean you believe we can cherry pick our fights and take out only weak countries instead (and still end up in a total morass) and yet foolishly try to convince everyone we are the greatest and most powerful nation "on this Mother Earth." Now that's a joke that just isn't funny!

You are proud that Bush had "4 years of economic growth." Wow! Eight years in office with an inherited surplus and just 4 years of growth. And what an easily blown over house of cards his economy policies turned out to be. Just look at how many trillions of dollars in wealth have been wiped out and millions who have lost their jobs as a result of his administration's laissez faire economic policies and weak if not totally negligent oversight from the Executive Branch agencies (yeah that means under the President not the Congress) like the Treasury and the SEC who are supposed to be ensuring laws that are enacted are enforced. Tax payers pay for these Executive Branch agencies to do the job they were created to do. They are not paid to look the other way. And yes Bush was responsible for them whether you like to hear this fact or not. All of the troubles America now faces started when and because the dimwit Bush was in office. He and people who supported him made America fail! Why else did he have the worst approval ratings of any American president in U.S. history? The electorate may be tolerant but they are not dumb and the dimwit Bush surely wasn't simply misunderstood. The last election was a stunning and total rejection of him and his soulless propaganda. Only the tiny lunatic fringe of his imploded party would still see him as a hero.

Bush tries to claim credit for increasing funding into AIDS research and people like you believe it to be true. In 2008 he called for $30 billion to be spent over the next five years but Congress was already funding money for AIDS projects at that amount anyway. So the funding he called for was actually flat and the spread of HIV/AIDS has continued anyway. The religious fanatic Bush (a Christian in name only; certainly not deed) also restricted most of this money to unrealistic "abstinence and fidelity" programs. This stance was criticized early on in a Government Accountability Report for being confusing and ineffective. While on this point why not  have your buddy  Bradly_60 return your favor and support your posting by coming back on here and agreeing how he thinks it is great that his tax dollars are going off to Africa to fight HIV/AIDS?

Michigan's economy tanked deep into Bush's term and long before the rest of the U.S. started to sink while Bush was still in office. He did nothing to help turn Michigan's economy around and this failure will only cause economic pain to be felt more widely and for longer across the U.S.

Saying you have a "traditional South American name...from a traditional European country" is a ludicrous statement. Explain what a non-traditional European country would be then. You clearly don't realize that hundreds of different ethnic groups have lived over there for centuries and Europe has changed borders numerous times for just as long. And just what is a "traditional South American name...from a traditional European country?" Is it a name from a descendent of the alien conquistadors who committed acts of enslavement and genocide against the indigenous peoples, erasing most of their native identity, and stealing and shipping their wealth back to foreign lands? Or is it someone whose relatives were members of the Nazi party that fled justice by living on the run in various South American countries after the collapse of the Third Reich? 

You had the nerve to hypocritically pass insults by calling me a "hater." It is obvious you are the one who hates to hear the truth.

At over 1000 words of more Bush and America bashing, you aren't angry or hate anything.  Very convincing.

You seem like a a very comprimising tolerant person.

DC81's avatarDC81

I'm not going to bother with the other stupidity but Michigan has been swirling its way down the economic toilet for DECADES! Just like many of the problems this country has and is facing.

End of comments
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