Welcome Guest
Log In | Register )
You last visited January 24, 2017, 2:35 am
All times shown are
Eastern Time (GMT-5:00)

Digit System Filters (Another Angle)

Topic closed. 28 replies. Last post 6 years ago by jimmy4164.

Page 1 of 2
PrintE-mailLink

United States
Member #93947
July 10, 2010
2180 Posts
Offline
Posted: November 2, 2010, 1:59 am - IP Logged
I'm sure everyone is aware that the Base 10 number system used in much of the world today is used arbitrarily.  There is no compelling reason to use Base 10, other than the fact that it evolved from our primitive ancestors counting on their fingers and is now so ingrained in our commerce and culture that it would be very difficult to change to another.  Here are some links for those interested in reading more on this topic:
 
 
As an example, let's look at how we would talk about a Lotto Matrix if we had only 3 fingers on each hand and most likely were using a Base 6 number system. Since it's all quite arbitrary, our Base 6 system might easily have numerals as follows, where "I" represents a singular object:
 
0   ==   (None)
I   ==   "I"
$   ==   "I I"
@   ==   "I I I"
#   ==   "I I I I"
5   ==   "I I I I I"
 
In this system, counting would proceed as follows:
 
  0   I   $   @   #   5  I0  II  I$  I@  I#  I5  $0  $I  $$  $@  $#  $5
 
 @0  @I  @$  @@  @#  @5  #0  #I  #$  #@  ##  #5  50  5I  5$  5@  5#  55
 
I00 I0I I0$ I0@ ... ...  (And so on)
 
To describe the Missouri Show Me 5 Lotto game, we would say it has a "( 5, I0@ )" matrix.  Assuming Lotto games in this 6 fingered world would follow the convention of not labeling a ball with the numeral 0, our balls would consist of the set [ I - I0@ ].
 
Now, there used to be a Thread here in the Lottery Systems Forum entitled, "My Digit System for..."  Its proponents used a series of filters based on the frequency of the appearance of digits [from the Base I# Number system] in a series of patterns.  Thus far, only I such pattern has been identified, but it is apparently believed to be the most powerful one. It is believed that sets of 5 numbers whose total unique digits equal 5 or I0 are more likely to be drawn in this game.
 
Since the order in which the balls emerge from the machine is not important, and the prizes are awarded based on the matching of the symbols on the balls with the symbols on players' tickets, it is of no consequence how the balls are labeled.  In fact, given the ability to print graphics at ticket terminals today, lotteries could choose to use pictures of animals to label the balls in Lotto games!  What would our "Digit System" people resort to if lotteries chose to adopt this approach?  Would they count tails, feet, and fingers?
 
With the above in mind, does it make any logical sense to you that components of the labels painted or glued on the balls are of any significance in a lottery draw?
 
--Jimmy4164
    Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
    Chief Bottle Washer
    New Jersey
    United States
    Member #1
    May 31, 2000
    23352 Posts
    Offline
    Posted: November 2, 2010, 12:11 pm - IP Logged

    <Moved to Mathematics forum>

    Please post in the appropriate forum ... thank you.

      Avatar
      NASHVILLE, TENN
      United States
      Member #33372
      February 20, 2006
      1044 Posts
      Offline
      Posted: November 5, 2010, 9:48 pm - IP Logged

      Yes, there is a significance.  Should the lottery in China use pictures of animals in their lottery we, as serious lotto players, would assign a numerical value with each animal dipicted.  We would convert those meaningless objects into a numerical language (which would then give meaning to them).  With a language (and math is a language) we can then "go where Angels fear to tread".

      There is only one ball with the number one (1) written on it.  When you see the number 1 you can safely assume you have also seen that particular ball before.  I know some lotto people switch ball sets but even then, when you see a number you can safely assume you have seen the same ball.

      Now as to your other point.  There are as many base numbers as there are numbers.  Computers use base 2; we count using base 10; assembly language is written in base 6 (or whatever hex is).  Which one in use depends on the ease with which working with such numbers is easier.  (Quick!  Someone untie my tongue!).  Would you rather work with 575,757 possibilities, 4096 possibilities, or 16,777,216 possibilities? 

      If you have 12 patterns which can be either true or false, you have 4096 possiblilities using base 2 and 16,777,216 possibilities using base 4. 

      I could say more but I think I have made my point.


        United States
        Member #93947
        July 10, 2010
        2180 Posts
        Offline
        Posted: November 5, 2010, 11:34 pm - IP Logged

        Yes, there is a significance.  Should the lottery in China use pictures of animals in their lottery we, as serious lotto players, would assign a numerical value with each animal dipicted.  We would convert those meaningless objects into a numerical language (which would then give meaning to them).  With a language (and math is a language) we can then "go where Angels fear to tread".

        There is only one ball with the number one (1) written on it.  When you see the number 1 you can safely assume you have also seen that particular ball before.  I know some lotto people switch ball sets but even then, when you see a number you can safely assume you have seen the same ball.

        Now as to your other point.  There are as many base numbers as there are numbers.  Computers use base 2; we count using base 10; assembly language is written in base 6 (or whatever hex is).  Which one in use depends on the ease with which working with such numbers is easier.  (Quick!  Someone untie my tongue!).  Would you rather work with 575,757 possibilities, 4096 possibilities, or 16,777,216 possibilities? 

        If you have 12 patterns which can be either true or false, you have 4096 possiblilities using base 2 and 16,777,216 possibilities using base 4. 

        I could say more but I think I have made my point.

        GASMETERGUY,

        "If you have 12 patterns which can be either true or false, you have 4096 possiblilities using base 2 and 16,777,216 possibilities using base 4."

        In the current context, it's not clear to me what point you're trying to make with this statement.

        In any event, it appears you really do believe there are relationships among the balls, relationships that are discoverable by merely assigning an arbitrary order to them.  Let's say you have a Lotto machine in your living room with 39 balls in it, each with a unique animal picture on it, and you've been withdrawing [and replacing] 5 balls from it for quite a while, faithfully recording on paper the images of each of the 5 animals for each draw.  Let's also assume the balls are identical in weight, diameter, and ink used for the animal pictures.  In the future, you can always consider systems based on replacing the animal pictures with labels derived from an arbitrarily based number system.  For the time being, just assume you don't know how to count in any system of any base.

        What systematic way could people decide which of these 39 balls are "more likely" to emerge in a subsequent draw?

        --Jimmy4164

          LANTERN's avatar - kilroy 28_173_reasonably_small.jpg
          Tx
          United States
          Member #4570
          May 4, 2004
          5180 Posts
          Offline
          Posted: November 6, 2010, 12:15 am - IP Logged

          GASMETERGUY,

          "If you have 12 patterns which can be either true or false, you have 4096 possiblilities using base 2 and 16,777,216 possibilities using base 4."

          In the current context, it's not clear to me what point you're trying to make with this statement.

          In any event, it appears you really do believe there are relationships among the balls, relationships that are discoverable by merely assigning an arbitrary order to them.  Let's say you have a Lotto machine in your living room with 39 balls in it, each with a unique animal picture on it, and you've been withdrawing [and replacing] 5 balls from it for quite a while, faithfully recording on paper the images of each of the 5 animals for each draw.  Let's also assume the balls are identical in weight, diameter, and ink used for the animal pictures.  In the future, you can always consider systems based on replacing the animal pictures with labels derived from an arbitrarily based number system.  For the time being, just assume you don't know how to count in any system of any base.

          What systematic way could people decide which of these 39 balls are "more likely" to emerge in a subsequent draw?

          --Jimmy4164

          I don't know how very many times I have already "said" this, but here we go again:

          Statistics is the "Glue" that relates otherwise unrelated events; I might have not said it exactly like so, but close enough.

          Only Statistically are "Balls" and or "Numbers" related to each other, but related they for sure are, believe it or not.

          I have shown this before some times on some "Old" posts of mine.

          BibleOnline  ParishesOnline  ChristianRadioOnline   MassOnline   Mass

          "Ten measures of beauty descended to the world, nine were taken by Jerusalem."

            LANTERN's avatar - kilroy 28_173_reasonably_small.jpg
            Tx
            United States
            Member #4570
            May 4, 2004
            5180 Posts
            Offline
            Posted: November 6, 2010, 12:27 am - IP Logged

            The numbers given to the balls are just symbols as stated before by so many including myself, what matters is what works, whatever it might be, if a binary (Two Counts) counting system works best for you prediction technique or method then by all means use it, otherwise use some other counting system, 4, 8, 10, 12, 16, 36 or whatever.

            A good enough prediction technique is what really counts.

            If you do better with VTracks, then by all means use them, otherwise use pictures of animals, colors or whatever else you do best with.

            Good Luck!

            BibleOnline  ParishesOnline  ChristianRadioOnline   MassOnline   Mass

            "Ten measures of beauty descended to the world, nine were taken by Jerusalem."


              United States
              Member #93947
              July 10, 2010
              2180 Posts
              Offline
              Posted: November 6, 2010, 12:36 am - IP Logged

              I don't know how very many times I have already "said" this, but here we go again:

              Statistics is the "Glue" that relates otherwise unrelated events; I might have not said it exactly like so, but close enough.

              Only Statistically are "Balls" and or "Numbers" related to each other, but related they for sure are, believe it or not.

              I have shown this before some times on some "Old" posts of mine.

              LANTERN,

              Does their "Relationship" strengthen after numerical assignments are made to replace the animal pictures?

              --Jimmy4164


                United States
                Member #93947
                July 10, 2010
                2180 Posts
                Offline
                Posted: November 6, 2010, 12:44 am - IP Logged

                The numbers given to the balls are just symbols as stated before by so many including myself, what matters is what works, whatever it might be, if a binary (Two Counts) counting system works best for you prediction technique or method then by all means use it, otherwise use some other counting system, 4, 8, 10, 12, 16, 36 or whatever.

                A good enough prediction technique is what really counts.

                If you do better with VTracks, then by all means use them, otherwise use pictures of animals, colors or whatever else you do best with.

                Good Luck!

                LANTERN,

                "If you do better with VTracks, then by all means use them, otherwise use pictures of animals, colors or whatever else you do best with."

                But I don't do well with ANY of these methods.  My question above was how you would predict with 39 animal pictures to work with.

                --Jimmy4164


                  LANTERN's avatar - kilroy 28_173_reasonably_small.jpg
                  Tx
                  United States
                  Member #4570
                  May 4, 2004
                  5180 Posts
                  Offline
                  Posted: November 6, 2010, 12:46 am - IP Logged

                  LANTERN,

                  Does their "Relationship" strengthen after numerical assignments are made to replace the animal pictures?

                  --Jimmy4164

                  Yes, and it is because we give the digits and numbers "Characteristics"

                  BibleOnline  ParishesOnline  ChristianRadioOnline   MassOnline   Mass

                  "Ten measures of beauty descended to the world, nine were taken by Jerusalem."

                    LANTERN's avatar - kilroy 28_173_reasonably_small.jpg
                    Tx
                    United States
                    Member #4570
                    May 4, 2004
                    5180 Posts
                    Offline
                    Posted: November 6, 2010, 12:51 am - IP Logged

                    LANTERN,

                    "If you do better with VTracks, then by all means use them, otherwise use pictures of animals, colors or whatever else you do best with."

                    But I don't do well with ANY of these methods.  My question above was how you would predict with 39 animal pictures to work with.

                    --Jimmy4164


                    I would not, I need a better "Base Ground"

                    Digits can be given sets of characteristics such as:

                    Low, High, Even, Odd, In, Out, and when combined then: Width, Sums, Last Digits Of Sums, Roots, Pairs, Triads, Quads, Decades, Etc.

                    BibleOnline  ParishesOnline  ChristianRadioOnline   MassOnline   Mass

                    "Ten measures of beauty descended to the world, nine were taken by Jerusalem."

                      LANTERN's avatar - kilroy 28_173_reasonably_small.jpg
                      Tx
                      United States
                      Member #4570
                      May 4, 2004
                      5180 Posts
                      Offline
                      Posted: November 6, 2010, 12:57 am - IP Logged

                      I would not, I need a better "Base Ground"

                      Digits can be given sets of characteristics such as:

                      Low, High, Even, Odd, In, Out, and when combined then: Width, Sums, Last Digits Of Sums, Roots, Pairs, Triads, Quads, Decades, Etc.

                      You might call such relationships, "Coincidental", but as I always said, "What Really Matters are Results" regardless of how you get them.

                      "The proof is in the pudding"

                      BibleOnline  ParishesOnline  ChristianRadioOnline   MassOnline   Mass

                      "Ten measures of beauty descended to the world, nine were taken by Jerusalem."

                        LANTERN's avatar - kilroy 28_173_reasonably_small.jpg
                        Tx
                        United States
                        Member #4570
                        May 4, 2004
                        5180 Posts
                        Offline
                        Posted: November 6, 2010, 1:04 am - IP Logged

                        You might call such relationships, "Coincidental", but as I always said, "What Really Matters are Results" regardless of how you get them.

                        "The proof is in the pudding"

                        I am aware of what might be called "Chance Relationships".

                        Again, Prediction-Wise what counts are Prediction Technique and its Results.

                        BibleOnline  ParishesOnline  ChristianRadioOnline   MassOnline   Mass

                        "Ten measures of beauty descended to the world, nine were taken by Jerusalem."


                          United States
                          Member #93947
                          July 10, 2010
                          2180 Posts
                          Offline
                          Posted: November 6, 2010, 1:24 am - IP Logged

                          You might call such relationships, "Coincidental", but as I always said, "What Really Matters are Results" regardless of how you get them.

                          "The proof is in the pudding"

                          Lantern,

                          This I can agree with.

                          Unfortunately, RESULTS are sorely lacking here.

                          But then, this doesn't surprise me at all.

                          --Jimmy4164


                            United States
                            Member #93947
                            July 10, 2010
                            2180 Posts
                            Offline
                            Posted: November 6, 2010, 1:39 am - IP Logged

                            I would not, I need a better "Base Ground"

                            Digits can be given sets of characteristics such as:

                            Low, High, Even, Odd, In, Out, and when combined then: Width, Sums, Last Digits Of Sums, Roots, Pairs, Triads, Quads, Decades, Etc.

                            LANTERN,

                            Characteristics of Digits.  When you think about the opening post to this thread, which showed how completely arbitrary the labeling of balls in a Lotto game is, doesn't it seem just a little bit bordering on the absurd to attribute some sort of predictive ability to the results of cutting apart these labels, and then adding and subtracting and counting the results of these splittings and splicings?

                            Another member addressed this point quite well earlier on.

                            http://www.lotterypost.com/thread/219297/1758123

                            Be sure to read the last paragraph.

                            --Jimmy4164

                              LANTERN's avatar - kilroy 28_173_reasonably_small.jpg
                              Tx
                              United States
                              Member #4570
                              May 4, 2004
                              5180 Posts
                              Offline
                              Posted: November 6, 2010, 1:40 am - IP Logged

                              Let us talk about animals in general.

                              Are they Sea, Land or Air Animals or are they Amphibians?

                              Do they breathe air or get their air from the water?

                              Are they Invertebrates or Vertebrates?

                              Are they Fish, Birds, Reptiles, Insects, Mammals, Rodents, Cetaceans, Primates, Arachnids, Crustaceans, Marsupials, Arthropods, Mollusks, Annelids, Echinoderms or Protozoa?

                              Are they: Very Small, Small, Medium Size, Big or Very Big?

                              Are they very soft, soft, medium, hard or very hard?

                              Do they have Scales, Hair, Feathers or none of those?

                              Do they eat meat or not?

                              Do they walk, jump, swim, fly, slither or none of those?

                              It is all a matter of "Characteristics", I guess.

                              -------

                              Maybe using cars would be easier or maybe not.

                               

                               

                              BibleOnline  ParishesOnline  ChristianRadioOnline   MassOnline   Mass

                              "Ten measures of beauty descended to the world, nine were taken by Jerusalem."