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Will Gift Tax Apply if Someone Else Claims a Ticket?

Topic closed. 31 replies. Last post 4 years ago by Stack47.

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Joplin MO
United States
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January 28, 2013
190 Posts
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Posted: May 7, 2013, 11:35 pm - IP Logged

Info...

My "system" spans more than one playslip / ticket per drawing.

If I win a jackpot, there will be other separate tickets that will also win a sizeable amount, that exceeds the current gift tax exclusion limit.

Question...

If I give those other tickets to family, for them to claim themselves, would that trigger the gift tax BS?

Initially, it seems obvious that if they claim the ticket, there would not be a problem.  However, if someone (the IRS) looks close enough at the numbers and winning date on all of the winning tickets, it would be obvious that they are all part of the same "system".

Would the IRS likely take us to court, claiming that the several thousand dollar secondary prizes were indeed a gift, at the value of the winnings, not the value of the $5 ticket?

 

(By the way ... hypothetical question ... I haven't won ... yet)

    RedStang's avatar - tallman zps6gf4inoc.jpg
    NY
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    January 21, 2012
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    Posted: May 8, 2013, 1:13 am - IP Logged

    If their ss # is on it their probably screwed. If your married with a child you can do gift splitting. You and your wife can each give 13k to the kid without taxes. Might be wrong though. Always wondered how giving stocks/bonds work.


      United States
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      July 25, 2012
      1636 Posts
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      Posted: May 8, 2013, 9:51 am - IP Logged

      Info...

      My "system" spans more than one playslip / ticket per drawing.

      If I win a jackpot, there will be other separate tickets that will also win a sizeable amount, that exceeds the current gift tax exclusion limit.

      Question...

      If I give those other tickets to family, for them to claim themselves, would that trigger the gift tax BS?

      Initially, it seems obvious that if they claim the ticket, there would not be a problem.  However, if someone (the IRS) looks close enough at the numbers and winning date on all of the winning tickets, it would be obvious that they are all part of the same "system".

      Would the IRS likely take us to court, claiming that the several thousand dollar secondary prizes were indeed a gift, at the value of the winnings, not the value of the $5 ticket?

       

      (By the way ... hypothetical question ... I haven't won ... yet)

      I dont think so since they are claiming the tickets in each of their own names....now if they wanted to give an amount that would exceed the gift amount i.e. over 13k then they would have to pay extra taxes on that....but not on a ticket they claim in their own name

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        NASHVILLE, TENN
        United States
        Member #33372
        February 20, 2006
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        Posted: May 8, 2013, 10:16 am - IP Logged

        Yes, gift taxes would apply.  Because of the gift tax, lotteries go to extra length to be positive the person claiming the ticket is the same person who bought the ticket.  If you were given a winning ticket, then you have recieved a gift of money and must pay gift taxes.

          joshuacloak's avatar - Money Swim-uncle-scrooge-mcduck-35997717-677-518.jpg

          United States
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          698 Posts
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          Posted: May 8, 2013, 11:13 am - IP Logged

          for love of god, don't listin to these people like

          Avatar
          NASHVILLE, TENN
          United States
          Member #33768
          February 20, 2006
          931 Posts
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          , or u be paying double taxes, first for claiming,and taxed again for giving away money

           

           just create a trust

          have trust CLAIM all tickets

          the trust pays the taxes.....................

          and trust  can be set up to give any amount to whoever u want

          as u be creating it,and setting up just like a contract, who gets what, money and where it goes all up 2 u

          trust option  will forever be best option on how to share money, it takes care of IRS for u,and allows everyone to be sent"gifted" the money  tax free, as TRUST handles taxes, THE trust beneficiaries can be unnumbered, add  however many u want,and give each member, whatever amount u want

          u can have also  do LLC /corp etc

           

          however trusts only make sense when TOP amount large. aka all be getting 400k or more

          and hance will pay top 39.6% rate

          if  your going to be sharing to many diff people,    u can make like unlimited number of trusts

          and just give each winning ticket to a trust,  aka so all small amounts are given to 2

           

          i cant stress how useful trust's are to giving lottery ticket winning to anyone u want.............. people don't understand this tool, it comes up ever other week here. people just keep asking, HOW to share ............ its not like there TON of useful tools that been around for decades weathy have been using

          nope......................................WRONG there is, whenever u have issue with taxes, and how to share, etc, look at what weathy/rich do to share

          issue fixed,

          also there more options then trusts

           corporation, organization, partnership LLC, etc

          trust is simple option, TONS of lawyers who handle this stuff

          if u ever win big, or plan 2,  look them up using google, Trust lawyer/estate lawyer, corporation lawyer

          must laywers have websites now a days,and have a number u can call them, if must asap

          i just call there main office and see who free during normal hours to talk 2 thro

          but am just saying, if won big, finding one and getting this stuff worked out is fine

          they handle the details,am only trying to tell u, there many diff paths to take,and lawyers will help u do it.

          if u listin to morons who Tell u other wise its not possible  , u MUST pay irs twice, once for claiming money,then giving it away"gift tax" u would of been robbed blind

          i know tons of laywers who would Disagree with these folks,   go to lawyers , don't trust our words only for anything, 

          No bees, no honey.

            savagegoose's avatar - ProfilePho
            adelaide sa
            Australia
            Member #37136
            April 11, 2006
            3300 Posts
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            Posted: May 8, 2013, 11:45 am - IP Logged

            arwe you saying you are buying the same numbers on multiple tickets, and giving those tickets as gifts, if they win? i cant see how the lottery or tax office can determine whe the gift was made, before or after you know the value.

            2014 = -1016; 2015= -1409; 2016 JAN = -106; FEB= -81; MAR= -131; APR= - 87: MAY= -91; JUN= -39; JUL=-134; AUG= -124; SEP = -123; OCT= -84  NOV=- 73 TOT= -3498

            keno historic = -2291 ; 2015= -603; 2016= JAN=-32, FEB= +12 , MAR= -86, APR = -77. MAY= -48, JUN= -29, JUL=-71; AUG = -52; SEPT= -43; OCT = +56 NOV = -33 TOT= -3297

              four4me's avatar - gate1
              MD
              United States
              Member #1701
              June 18, 2003
              8362 Posts
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              Posted: May 8, 2013, 11:54 am - IP Logged

              Info...

              My "system" spans more than one playslip / ticket per drawing.

              If I win a jackpot, there will be other separate tickets that will also win a sizeable amount, that exceeds the current gift tax exclusion limit.

              Question...

              If I give those other tickets to family, for them to claim themselves, would that trigger the gift tax BS?

              Initially, it seems obvious that if they claim the ticket, there would not be a problem.  However, if someone (the IRS) looks close enough at the numbers and winning date on all of the winning tickets, it would be obvious that they are all part of the same "system".

              Would the IRS likely take us to court, claiming that the several thousand dollar secondary prizes were indeed a gift, at the value of the winnings, not the value of the $5 ticket?

               

              (By the way ... hypothetical question ... I haven't won ... yet)

              no no no no no!

              if you buy 100 tickets and they all turn out to be winners your only responsible for the tickets you cash in. if you give 99 of the winning tickets away then the people who received those tickets are responsible for them not you.

              Big John says. You don't hit the number. The number hits you!!!!

                             I'm not Big John, I'm Four4me, Big John's a friend.
                HoLeeKau's avatar - YheaShea
                Idaho
                United States
                Member #94283
                July 17, 2010
                2284 Posts
                Offline
                Posted: May 8, 2013, 12:13 pm - IP Logged

                arwe you saying you are buying the same numbers on multiple tickets, and giving those tickets as gifts, if they win? i cant see how the lottery or tax office can determine whe the gift was made, before or after you know the value.

                I agree with this.  But I'm not an expert.  Call a tax professional to make sure.

                If you gave them the ticket before the draw, you gave them a gift of $1 or $2 which is well within the limits to avoid gift taxes.

                  PlayToWin47's avatar - Lottery-041.jpg
                  Joplin MO
                  United States
                  Member #138489
                  January 28, 2013
                  190 Posts
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                  Posted: May 8, 2013, 1:34 pm - IP Logged

                  arwe you saying you are buying the same numbers on multiple tickets, and giving those tickets as gifts, if they win? i cant see how the lottery or tax office can determine whe the gift was made, before or after you know the value.

                  Yes, sort of.

                   

                  Ok ... my system:

                  I pick 5 white balls, and HB "1" ... same 5 white balls, HB "2" ... all the way through the set ... $19 per drawing.  If I get all 5 white balls, I automatically have the HB.  I will also have 18 second place wins ... $10,000 per board (unless the lottery people rip me off per the "pari-mutual" thing).  That means that I will have my jackpot ticket, and (3) others worth $40,000 or $50,000 (depending on where the HB is in realtion to that extra 20th board.

                  Basically, this means that my odds for the jackpot are what most people's odds are for second prize.

                  This also works for PB and MM ... but it will cost more than $19 per drawing.

                    PlayToWin47's avatar - Lottery-041.jpg
                    Joplin MO
                    United States
                    Member #138489
                    January 28, 2013
                    190 Posts
                    Offline
                    Posted: May 8, 2013, 1:38 pm - IP Logged

                    for love of god, don't listin to these people like

                    Avatar
                    NASHVILLE, TENN
                    United States
                    Member #33768
                    February 20, 2006
                    931 Posts
                    Offline

                    , or u be paying double taxes, first for claiming,and taxed again for giving away money

                     

                     just create a trust

                    have trust CLAIM all tickets

                    the trust pays the taxes.....................

                    and trust  can be set up to give any amount to whoever u want

                    as u be creating it,and setting up just like a contract, who gets what, money and where it goes all up 2 u

                    trust option  will forever be best option on how to share money, it takes care of IRS for u,and allows everyone to be sent"gifted" the money  tax free, as TRUST handles taxes, THE trust beneficiaries can be unnumbered, add  however many u want,and give each member, whatever amount u want

                    u can have also  do LLC /corp etc

                     

                    however trusts only make sense when TOP amount large. aka all be getting 400k or more

                    and hance will pay top 39.6% rate

                    if  your going to be sharing to many diff people,    u can make like unlimited number of trusts

                    and just give each winning ticket to a trust,  aka so all small amounts are given to 2

                     

                    i cant stress how useful trust's are to giving lottery ticket winning to anyone u want.............. people don't understand this tool, it comes up ever other week here. people just keep asking, HOW to share ............ its not like there TON of useful tools that been around for decades weathy have been using

                    nope......................................WRONG there is, whenever u have issue with taxes, and how to share, etc, look at what weathy/rich do to share

                    issue fixed,

                    also there more options then trusts

                     corporation, organization, partnership LLC, etc

                    trust is simple option, TONS of lawyers who handle this stuff

                    if u ever win big, or plan 2,  look them up using google, Trust lawyer/estate lawyer, corporation lawyer

                    must laywers have websites now a days,and have a number u can call them, if must asap

                    i just call there main office and see who free during normal hours to talk 2 thro

                    but am just saying, if won big, finding one and getting this stuff worked out is fine

                    they handle the details,am only trying to tell u, there many diff paths to take,and lawyers will help u do it.

                    if u listin to morons who Tell u other wise its not possible  , u MUST pay irs twice, once for claiming money,then giving it away"gift tax" u would of been robbed blind

                    i know tons of laywers who would Disagree with these folks,   go to lawyers , don't trust our words only for anything, 

                    Again ... excellent information concerning trusts ... Thank you!!!

                    I am quite certain that if I actually do win enough for the gift tax thing to be an issue, I will be talking to tax people and trust lawyers.

                      PlayToWin47's avatar - Lottery-041.jpg
                      Joplin MO
                      United States
                      Member #138489
                      January 28, 2013
                      190 Posts
                      Offline
                      Posted: May 8, 2013, 1:46 pm - IP Logged

                      Yes, gift taxes would apply.  Because of the gift tax, lotteries go to extra length to be positive the person claiming the ticket is the same person who bought the ticket.  If you were given a winning ticket, then you have recieved a gift of money and must pay gift taxes.

                      That is what I have been reading.

                        PlayToWin47's avatar - Lottery-041.jpg
                        Joplin MO
                        United States
                        Member #138489
                        January 28, 2013
                        190 Posts
                        Offline
                        Posted: May 8, 2013, 2:33 pm - IP Logged

                        Yes, sort of.

                         

                        Ok ... my system:

                        I pick 5 white balls, and HB "1" ... same 5 white balls, HB "2" ... all the way through the set ... $19 per drawing.  If I get all 5 white balls, I automatically have the HB.  I will also have 18 second place wins ... $10,000 per board (unless the lottery people rip me off per the "pari-mutual" thing).  That means that I will have my jackpot ticket, and (3) others worth $40,000 or $50,000 (depending on where the HB is in realtion to that extra 20th board.

                        Basically, this means that my odds for the jackpot are what most people's odds are for second prize.

                        This also works for PB and MM ... but it will cost more than $19 per drawing.

                        ...This also means that I win at least a little every drawing ... at least $2 per drawing.  If I get (3) white balls ... $122; (4) white balls ... $1400; (5) white balls ... JP + $180,000.

                        I haven't even played this game for a year, and I've won the $122 twice.

                        I WOULD HAVE won the $122 another time, and the $1400 once if I hadn't revised my numbers!!!  My OLD numbers came up ... GRRRR!!!

                          PlayToWin47's avatar - Lottery-041.jpg
                          Joplin MO
                          United States
                          Member #138489
                          January 28, 2013
                          190 Posts
                          Offline
                          Posted: May 8, 2013, 2:44 pm - IP Logged

                          Info...

                          My "system" spans more than one playslip / ticket per drawing.

                          If I win a jackpot, there will be other separate tickets that will also win a sizeable amount, that exceeds the current gift tax exclusion limit.

                          Question...

                          If I give those other tickets to family, for them to claim themselves, would that trigger the gift tax BS?

                          Initially, it seems obvious that if they claim the ticket, there would not be a problem.  However, if someone (the IRS) looks close enough at the numbers and winning date on all of the winning tickets, it would be obvious that they are all part of the same "system".

                          Would the IRS likely take us to court, claiming that the several thousand dollar secondary prizes were indeed a gift, at the value of the winnings, not the value of the $5 ticket?

                           

                          (By the way ... hypothetical question ... I haven't won ... yet)

                          For what it's worth...

                          I have absolutely no problem paying my fair share of taxes, but I have a big problem with paying gift taxes!!!  It is totally wrong that the government would want to tax me because I want to give some money to help out family or friends.  What business is it of theirs how much I might want to give!!!

                            Avatar
                            Kentucky
                            United States
                            Member #32652
                            February 14, 2006
                            7314 Posts
                            Offline
                            Posted: May 8, 2013, 3:27 pm - IP Logged

                            Info...

                            My "system" spans more than one playslip / ticket per drawing.

                            If I win a jackpot, there will be other separate tickets that will also win a sizeable amount, that exceeds the current gift tax exclusion limit.

                            Question...

                            If I give those other tickets to family, for them to claim themselves, would that trigger the gift tax BS?

                            Initially, it seems obvious that if they claim the ticket, there would not be a problem.  However, if someone (the IRS) looks close enough at the numbers and winning date on all of the winning tickets, it would be obvious that they are all part of the same "system".

                            Would the IRS likely take us to court, claiming that the several thousand dollar secondary prizes were indeed a gift, at the value of the winnings, not the value of the $5 ticket?

                             

                            (By the way ... hypothetical question ... I haven't won ... yet)

                            "Initially, it seems obvious that if they claim the ticket, there would not be a problem.  However, if someone (the IRS) looks close enough at the numbers and winning date on all of the winning tickets, it would be obvious that they are all part of the same "system"."

                            I believe the same rules would apply if you bought tickets for someone or even a group of people and one of the tickets won. Based on what you said, it's obvious your intentions are to buy those tickets for family members. I hope it's legal to buy tickets for other people because I've done it many times.

                            At Christmas time many state lotteries suggest giving lottery tickets as a stocking stuffer so I doubt they would if it gift tax applied. It might depend on the value of the gift at the time of purchase and not the future value of the gift. What is the value of a $1 lottery ticket before the drawing?

                              PlayToWin47's avatar - Lottery-041.jpg
                              Joplin MO
                              United States
                              Member #138489
                              January 28, 2013
                              190 Posts
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                              Posted: May 8, 2013, 3:54 pm - IP Logged

                              "Initially, it seems obvious that if they claim the ticket, there would not be a problem.  However, if someone (the IRS) looks close enough at the numbers and winning date on all of the winning tickets, it would be obvious that they are all part of the same "system"."

                              I believe the same rules would apply if you bought tickets for someone or even a group of people and one of the tickets won. Based on what you said, it's obvious your intentions are to buy those tickets for family members. I hope it's legal to buy tickets for other people because I've done it many times.

                              At Christmas time many state lotteries suggest giving lottery tickets as a stocking stuffer so I doubt they would if it gift tax applied. It might depend on the value of the gift at the time of purchase and not the future value of the gift. What is the value of a $1 lottery ticket before the drawing?

                              The problem is, I'm not actually buying the tickets for them.  They are just a secondary part of my game & my system that I'm playing.  I'm basically just willing to give them the lesser valued second prize wins should I win the biggie.  If I were actually buying them, like for a gift, and giving them away before they won, I would be far less concerned about how this all plays out.