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Can MM & PB Start Being Honest? Must this farce continue?

Topic closed. 53 replies. Last post 3 years ago by OldSchoolPa.

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haymaker's avatar - Lottery-012.jpg
Egg Harbor twp.south Jersey shore
United States
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June 29, 2011
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Posted: June 18, 2013, 4:47 pm - IP Logged

The farce will never stop.

The dog & pony show must go on.

Extraordinary Popular Delusions & the Madness of Crowds    -- Charles Mackay  LL.D.

    noise-gate's avatar - images q=tbn:ANd9GcR91HDs4UJhjxO7cmeMQWZ5lB_FOcMLOGicau4V74R45tDgPWrr
    Bay Area - California
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    Posted: June 18, 2013, 4:48 pm - IP Logged

    Either way you look at it- your returns on a $1.00 or $2.00 investment should you win is humongous.
    Party


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      Posted: June 18, 2013, 5:00 pm - IP Logged

      I like my odds.

        maringoman's avatar - images q=tbn:ANd9GcTbRxpKQmOfcCoUqF2FyqIOAwDo7rg9G-lfJLAALPGWJWwiz19eRw
        Massachusetts
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        Posted: June 18, 2013, 5:14 pm - IP Logged

        The drop from advertised jackpot to the cash value is particularly steep for PB. I don't know why is has to be that way. I does not bother me too much. I would be happy to just win the base jackpot and fade away

        That money's gone fo ever

          Avatar
          Kentucky
          United States
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          February 14, 2006
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          Posted: June 18, 2013, 5:22 pm - IP Logged

          what makes things even worse for US lottery players is not only do the other countries advertise the cash value of their jackpot,

          almost all the other countries do NOT tax lottery winnings.

          So if you're a US lottery player who wants the cash value, you need to take the advertise jackpot, subtract about 40% to get to the cash amount, then take away about 50% of the cash amount for state income tax and federal income tax to finally arrive at what the government will allow you to keep.

          Remember the fact that as a lottery player you're taking all the risk by wagering your money against astronomical odds, the government takes no risk and wagers nothing but in a sense, they are your partner because when or if you win, they take half. What a sweetheart deal the government gets. Imagine if you can partner up with someone, your partner takes all of the risk because they will wager their own money you will wager nothing, so if they lose they lose their money and the best part, if they some how manage to beat the laughable odds against them, you will keep half! Please sign me up for a deal like that.

          I'd love to be a UK lottery player. If you win, you get to keep the advertised amount, you'll pay zero income tax on the lottery winnings and you will be given the option to collect the prize anonymously.

          "Remember the fact that as a lottery player you're taking all the risk by wagering your money against astronomical odds, the government takes no risk and wagers nothing but in a sense, they are your partner because when or if you win, they take half."

          If you know before buying a ticket the government is going to take half the winnings, you know you're betting on winning half the jackpot. The same is true with the advertised payment prize. By taking the cash, you'll probably get about 40% of the advertised prize after Federal taxes and considerably less if there is a state tax.

          If I don't want to risk a buck trying to win about $14.4 million after taxes on tonight's MM drawing, I can simply wait until the take-home value of the jackpot is worth whatever risk I'm willing to take..

          "I'd love to be a UK lottery player. If you win, you get to keep the advertised amount"

          Even in the UK there is a hidden risk the QP you could win on was a highly played combination and you'll share the jackpot with many other players. If I ever get to the point where I believe I'm risking a buck trying to win millions, I'll quit playing. Your mileage might vary, but I'm buying a dream for a dollar and losing that dollar will have no effect on my future life.

            Coin Toss's avatar - shape barbed.jpg
            Zeta Reticuli Star System
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            Posted: June 18, 2013, 5:39 pm - IP Logged

            Teddi,

            "Yes, I think anyone with an internet connection can see how they do it. But my question is WHY do they do it?"

            Quite simply, it's their way of advertising, how they promote themselves. Paying winners 'goes with the territory'. They're not in the business of paying winners, they're in the business of promoting the lottery to make money off of it. Tons and tons of money.

            haymaker,

            Re: gov't as partners. Remember the series Wiseguy with Ken Wahl and Ray Sharkey? Wahl was an undercover cop who got in tight with Sharkey who played an A.C. mob guy. Whoever the writer was made some heavy duty comments in that series. In one episode towards the end, Sharkey found out Wahl was a cop and couldn't believe it.

            Wahl: You kill people.

            Sharkey: I don't sent teenagers to some jungle to do it for me.

            Wahl: Your business is illegal.

            Sharkey: That doesn't stop the government from sticking its hand out and ask for some of my profits once I start making them. They call it taxes.

            Those who run the lotteries love it when players look for consistency in something that's designed not to have any.

            Lep

            There is one and only one 'proven' system, and that is to book the action. No matter the game, let the players pick their own losers.

              whiteballz's avatar - Lottery-015.jpg
              Nutley, New Jersey
              United States
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              August 1, 2012
              875 Posts
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              Posted: June 18, 2013, 5:59 pm - IP Logged

              "Remember the fact that as a lottery player you're taking all the risk by wagering your money against astronomical odds, the government takes no risk and wagers nothing but in a sense, they are your partner because when or if you win, they take half."

              If you know before buying a ticket the government is going to take half the winnings, you know you're betting on winning half the jackpot. The same is true with the advertised payment prize. By taking the cash, you'll probably get about 40% of the advertised prize after Federal taxes and considerably less if there is a state tax.

              If I don't want to risk a buck trying to win about $14.4 million after taxes on tonight's MM drawing, I can simply wait until the take-home value of the jackpot is worth whatever risk I'm willing to take..

              "I'd love to be a UK lottery player. If you win, you get to keep the advertised amount"

              Even in the UK there is a hidden risk the QP you could win on was a highly played combination and you'll share the jackpot with many other players. If I ever get to the point where I believe I'm risking a buck trying to win millions, I'll quit playing. Your mileage might vary, but I'm buying a dream for a dollar and losing that dollar will have no effect on my future life.

              If you want to think of buying a ticket as a chance to dream that's fine with me. Legally speaking, the lottery is a form of gambling. A person is placing a wager that the 6 numbers they have on their ticket will be drawn. If they match all 6 numbers they win the jackpot, if they match zero numbers, then their ticket is completely worthless. That is what I mean when I said someone is risking their money.

              .

                veganlife125's avatar - Lottery-061.jpg

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                Posted: June 18, 2013, 10:04 pm - IP Logged

                They should get rid of the annuity and force everyone to take the lump sum.  The billboards in each state should show your part after federal & state taxes withheld.  They won't ever do it.  One day soon the total government take will be up around 90% because of all the human envy. Big Grin

                Don't forget to visit the Lottery Post Gift Shop!

                  Teddi's avatar - Lottery-008.jpg

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                  Posted: June 18, 2013, 11:10 pm - IP Logged

                  You guys are all probably right. I guess I'd just prefer their honesty. I'd be ecstatic to win $60M, and know that it's $60M (not counting taxes of course). Don't tell me it's $105 when it's not.  Don't give me a check for $105M to hold up when they have no intention of giving that amount. 

                  Definitely $500M caught our attention, but wouldn't it have caught our attention just as much as billboards and websites touting a guaranteed payout of $370M?

                  Is it just me or does knowing someone might give me hundreds of millions of dollars still ridiculously exciting. There's no need to pretend that it's more than that.

                  Tell me that's what you're going to give me, no fancy finance tricks, give me THAT check to hold up, it would still make big news. 

                  Surely we as a nation haven't gotten so greedy that $370M isn't enough.

                  US Flag

                  I might wake up early and go running.  I might also wake up and win the lottery.

                  The odds are about the same.

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                    Kentucky
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                    February 14, 2006
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                    Posted: June 19, 2013, 1:53 am - IP Logged

                    If you want to think of buying a ticket as a chance to dream that's fine with me. Legally speaking, the lottery is a form of gambling. A person is placing a wager that the 6 numbers they have on their ticket will be drawn. If they match all 6 numbers they win the jackpot, if they match zero numbers, then their ticket is completely worthless. That is what I mean when I said someone is risking their money.

                    "That is what I mean when I said someone is risking their money."

                    I understood what you meant, but I think the word risk is inappropriate for a dollar a drawing player just hoping to win millions and day dreaming about how they will spend it. To me a risk is betting $10,000 on a single drawing believing they will win the jackpot.

                      RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
                      mid-Ohio
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                      Posted: June 19, 2013, 2:11 am - IP Logged

                      You guys are all probably right. I guess I'd just prefer their honesty. I'd be ecstatic to win $60M, and know that it's $60M (not counting taxes of course). Don't tell me it's $105 when it's not.  Don't give me a check for $105M to hold up when they have no intention of giving that amount. 

                      Definitely $500M caught our attention, but wouldn't it have caught our attention just as much as billboards and websites touting a guaranteed payout of $370M?

                      Is it just me or does knowing someone might give me hundreds of millions of dollars still ridiculously exciting. There's no need to pretend that it's more than that.

                      Tell me that's what you're going to give me, no fancy finance tricks, give me THAT check to hold up, it would still make big news. 

                      Surely we as a nation haven't gotten so greedy that $370M isn't enough.

                      US Flag

                      Do you get equally upset when car dealers advertise for only $200 a month you can own a new car?  You really  know you will eventually have to pay $25K+ plus interest if you ever do own that car even when it's old and a piece of junk.

                       * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
                         
                                   Evil Looking       

                        whiteballz's avatar - Lottery-015.jpg
                        Nutley, New Jersey
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                        Posted: June 19, 2013, 2:18 am - IP Logged

                        "That is what I mean when I said someone is risking their money."

                        I understood what you meant, but I think the word risk is inappropriate for a dollar a drawing player just hoping to win millions and day dreaming about how they will spend it. To me a risk is betting $10,000 on a single drawing believing they will win the jackpot.

                        That is where we differ because I consider risk as putting my money into something where the outcome is not certain regardless of amount. To me it is calculated risk to buy a one dollar Mega Millions ticket. I weigh the risk, which is, the ticket I bought matches none of the numbers drawn meaning I lose the dollar I spent to my perceived benefit, the idea I may win a large sum of money and then decide if that it is an acceptable risk for me to take.

                        Another reason I call it risk is to drive home my point that the US government takes no risk in that you and you alone are using your own money to buy lottery tickets but if you win, the US government decides to take half your winnings, which in my opinion is wrong. It seems all the other countries in the world, including Canada, the UK, Spain, France and Italy would agree with me because they do not tax lottery winnings at all.

                        .

                          RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
                          mid-Ohio
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                          Posted: June 19, 2013, 2:32 am - IP Logged

                          That is where we differ because I consider risk as putting my money into something where the outcome is not certain regardless of amount. To me it is calculated risk to buy a one dollar Mega Millions ticket. I weigh the risk, which is, the ticket I bought matches none of the numbers drawn meaning I lose the dollar I spent to my perceived benefit, the idea I may win a large sum of money and then decide if that it is an acceptable risk for me to take.

                          Another reason I call it risk is to drive home my point that the US government takes no risk in that you and you alone are using your own money to buy lottery tickets but if you win, the US government decides to take half your winnings, which in my opinion is wrong. It seems all the other countries in the world, including Canada, the UK, Spain, France and Italy would agree with me because they do not tax lottery winnings at all.

                          That is where we differ because I consider risk as putting my money into something where the outcome is not certain regardless of amount.

                          I Agree! When you spend a dollar on a beer you know you're going to piss it away but spend a dollar on a lottery ticket and it's anybody guess what will happen.

                           * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
                             
                                       Evil Looking       

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                            Posted: June 19, 2013, 2:34 am - IP Logged

                            My point is either discontinue the annuity payments, or make the annuity payment equal to the cash payout. Make neither a higher option than the other. 

                            But if they are going to keep JP amounts different, at the very least quit posing the people who choose the lump sum payment with the total JP amount. At best it's disingenuous, and worst it's a grand lie. Either way, it isn't honest since that check doesn't represent the amount they are  planning on giving that person. 

                            Other countries have one payout amount. There's no pretense. Why do we keep doing this nonsense with PB and MM?

                            "discontinue the annuity payments, or make the annuity payment equal to the cash payout."

                            It sounds like you still don't understand how the jackpot payouts work. That or you either want the lottery to give out money they never collected or keep more of what they did collect when somebody chooses the anuity. The only real jackpot is the cash, and the cash is a known percentage of sales. If you don't want all the cash right away you can collect it in small chunks and earn interest on the part you haven't collected yet. Unless you're stupid enough to ask for the cash you  aren't collecting yet to just be kept in a box and not invested the annuity payments  have to be more than the cash value.

                            Of course you're right that it's the cash value that should be advertised, since the annuity value is only a theoretical amount that you can collect over an extended period of time. PB and MM have both extended the period of the annuity payments, and PB has deferred more of the principal to later payments, and the only realistic reason for that is to inflate the fictional amount that they advertise. Advertising the annuity value is akin to advertising a 30 year mortgage as only requiring you to pay back $1 for each $1 you borrow, since that's what it would cost if you paid it all back immediately after getting the money.  If a private company advertised the way the lotteries do the goverment would be suing them for false advertising.

                            As for the taxes,  the job of the lotteries is to tell people how the lottery works, not how the rest of the world works. A player not understanding taxes is no more the concern of the lottery than a player's understanding of how their car works. Besides, what a player will owe in taxes depends on many factors the lottery can't possibly know.

                            In the end, a good rule of thumb is that a single winner will  end up with about 1/3 of the advertised amount. Some players are smart enough to know that (or to find out), and some aren't.

                              rcbbuckeye's avatar - Lottery-043.jpg
                              Texas
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                              October 23, 2007
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                              Posted: June 19, 2013, 8:30 am - IP Logged

                              "discontinue the annuity payments, or make the annuity payment equal to the cash payout."

                              It sounds like you still don't understand how the jackpot payouts work. That or you either want the lottery to give out money they never collected or keep more of what they did collect when somebody chooses the anuity. The only real jackpot is the cash, and the cash is a known percentage of sales. If you don't want all the cash right away you can collect it in small chunks and earn interest on the part you haven't collected yet. Unless you're stupid enough to ask for the cash you  aren't collecting yet to just be kept in a box and not invested the annuity payments  have to be more than the cash value.

                              Of course you're right that it's the cash value that should be advertised, since the annuity value is only a theoretical amount that you can collect over an extended period of time. PB and MM have both extended the period of the annuity payments, and PB has deferred more of the principal to later payments, and the only realistic reason for that is to inflate the fictional amount that they advertise. Advertising the annuity value is akin to advertising a 30 year mortgage as only requiring you to pay back $1 for each $1 you borrow, since that's what it would cost if you paid it all back immediately after getting the money.  If a private company advertised the way the lotteries do the goverment would be suing them for false advertising.

                              As for the taxes,  the job of the lotteries is to tell people how the lottery works, not how the rest of the world works. A player not understanding taxes is no more the concern of the lottery than a player's understanding of how their car works. Besides, what a player will owe in taxes depends on many factors the lottery can't possibly know.

                              In the end, a good rule of thumb is that a single winner will  end up with about 1/3 of the advertised amount. Some players are smart enough to know that (or to find out), and some aren't.

                              Exactly.

                              When I look at how much the jackpot is I don't even look at the advertised jackpot. I'm only concerned with the cash.

                              CAN'T WIN IF YOU'RE NOT IN

                              A DOLLAR AND A DREAM (OR $2)