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# Is this legal?

Topic closed. 30 replies. Last post 3 years ago by Stack47.

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Mass
United States
Member #68073
December 12, 2008
217 Posts
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 Posted: May 25, 2014, 4:22 pm - IP Logged

I am looking to increase my odds of winning a Life Changing Prize (LCP) on a scratch ticket. My idea is to create a "Scratch Ticket Square Pool",

Folks may, each early February, buy into a Superbowl Square Pool where you can win a set amount of money if the score of the game matches your "numbers" on the grid at the end of any quarter. These are lots of fun and you may win some decent money if you by a high-end square for \$50 or \$100 and you get lucky. But what if you purchased one square for \$10 or \$15 dollars and had the chance to win \$10,000, \$50,000, \$1,000,000 or even \$15,000,000?

Scratch tickets come in "books" or "packs" with different amounts of tickets per book/pack in different price levels. For example, most \$1 tickets come in books of 300 and most \$5 tickets come in books of 150-300 tickets. All \$10 games come in books of 100 tickets and the newly released \$30 game has 50 tickets per pack.

I will be creating a Scratch Ticket Square Pool that will work like this:

There will be ten rows and ten columns to create a grid with 100 squares. Each square will be numbered from 00 to 99. To use a \$10 scratch ticket as an example (100 tickets per book), each square will be sold for \$10. Players would get to choose the numbered square they want based on what is not already selected. Three days after the last square is sold, the winning square will be selected using the MIDDLE TWO numbers in the Mass Lottery EVENING daily number. So, if you purchased square number 31 and the last square was sold on Monday afternoon,and the evening daily number drawn on Thursday was 9317, you would win a complete book of \$10 scratch tickets! Let's face it, your odds of finding that LCP is far better scratching a whole book than simply buying an occasional ticket. Plus, even if you do not find a LCP, you are very likely to come out with \$500-\$800 profit.

This pool would obviously be with people I know (friends and acquaintances) and be driven by a popular social media site.

So, is it legal to collect \$10 or \$15 from 100 friends and use a foolproof way to select one who receives (wins) a full book of tickets? Most people I have ran this idea by think it is great and will definitely play. I am not profiting from this endeavor (unless I win or one of the square buyers wins big and "thanks" me with a monetary gift of appreciation)

JACKPOT HUNTER

United States
Member #141034
April 2, 2013
1408 Posts
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 Posted: May 25, 2014, 4:50 pm - IP Logged

This is AMERICA!!!. The only way to find out, is to try it. If you find your backside in jail, then that speaks for itself. If your now former friends, start hunting you down like a scallywag, then you know it's really not legal. The Pyramid only looks good in Egypt. Good luck to you and your soon to be new address.

Seek and ye shall find -Matt. 7:7 ...Ask and ye shall receive -John 16:24 ...Give and it shall be given unto you -Luke 6:38 ...Be careful what you ask for!!! -Mypiemaster 1:1

Having Money Solves Problems That Not Having Money Creates  ****John Carlton****

Los Angeles, California
United States
Member #149492
December 2, 2013
919 Posts
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 Posted: May 25, 2014, 4:59 pm - IP Logged

I'm not sure of the legality of the proposed scratch ticket pool, but in your hypothetical wouldn't the odds be a wash?

Let's say the odds for winning the top prize is 1 in 5,000,000.  If you buy 100 tickets (a book/pack), the odds for winning the top prize is 1 in 50,000.  But, in this hypothetical, you first need to win the pack by selecting the correct square which is 1 in 100, which puts the odds of winning the top prize back at 1 in 5,000,000.

Buying books doesn't pay off most of the time.  I think ~8 out of 10 times will result in losing money with returns in the 30-60% range, and if you do profit, it's mostly a nominal profit.  I know Massachusetts has the best payout, but I doubt you're going to see \$500-\$800 profits often.

Mass
United States
Member #68073
December 12, 2008
217 Posts
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 Posted: May 25, 2014, 5:35 pm - IP Logged

I'm not sure of the legality of the proposed scratch ticket pool, but in your hypothetical wouldn't the odds be a wash?

Let's say the odds for winning the top prize is 1 in 5,000,000.  If you buy 100 tickets (a book/pack), the odds for winning the top prize is 1 in 50,000.  But, in this hypothetical, you first need to win the pack by selecting the correct square which is 1 in 100, which puts the odds of winning the top prize back at 1 in 5,000,000.

Buying books doesn't pay off most of the time.  I think ~8 out of 10 times will result in losing money with returns in the 30-60% range, and if you do profit, it's mostly a nominal profit.  I know Massachusetts has the best payout, but I doubt you're going to see \$500-\$800 profits often.

The appeal for players will be the chance to scratch a whole book of tickets after paying the price of one ticket. So whomever wins will be guaranteed to make a very big profit after paying \$10 and winning at least \$550.

Zeta Reticuli Star System
United States
Member #30470
January 17, 2006
10351 Posts
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 Posted: May 25, 2014, 7:37 pm - IP Logged

The most common football pool is the standard 100 square football pool.  At almost every Super Bowl party you have ever been to you might have seen this 10 x 10 betting sheet and wondered what it is. There's nothing like a friendly little game to liven up the party during the Super Bowl. This pool is built around a simple chart calls for no skill or previous knowledge of how to bet the spread or of the game of football in general. In this article I will explain how easy this to partake in and how much fun this form of gambling on football can add to the game.

How a 100 square football pool works is very simple. Whoever the party host or pool host may be creates at 10 squares by 10 squares chart; this is numbered on each axis from 0-9.  Each axis is also labeled home/away or by each team playing, if chosen.

The pool host will then try to sell each square on the chart, usually ranging from \$5-\$100, depending on the type of clientele buying the squares. After all the squares have been sold, each box is then assigned at random so that everyone has a fair chance to get a coveted square. Another method some pool hosts use is to have all the entrants write their names down inside a single square of their liking on the blank 100 square pool sheet and then use 10 cards (Ace through Nine) to randomly draw the numbers at the top and side of the pool sheet.

How do you know which squares are the best? This is simple, so the way this works is that every square on the board will assign two numbers. For instance, if you had a square in the middle of the board, this would correspond to 5 for the home team and 5 for the away team. So what do those 5's mean?

The numbers 0-9 correspond to either the last number in the home or away team score depending on where the square is located. So 20 points would be a 0 whereas 35 would be 5 points.

So how do you win? At the end of the first quarter, halftime, third quarter, and final score whatever the score is will be awarded to the person who owns that square. If the score is 17-10 at the half with the home team winning, the person with the squares of 7 and 0 would win that portion of the game. Having the squares 0 and 7 would not help because it would be assigned to the wrong teams. Usually the total money is divided by 5, and is paid out as follows. 1st quarter, Halftime, and 3rd quarter all get a 1/5 of the total bank and the Final Score doubles this to 2/5. So if you were involved on a \$5 dollar pool and all 100 squares were filled that would be \$500 to be paid out. With that number you would get paid \$200 for final score and \$100 for all other scores.

Which numbers are the best to have when entering the office pool? The top 5 most common scores for NFL games since 1970 are 20-17, 17-14, 27-24, 13-10, and 24-17.  So as you can see if one of your numbers is 0, 3, 4, or 7, then you already have a leg-up on the competition.

__________________________________________________________________

Usually those who run such pools save the best squares for their friends and try to get others to buy the not so good squares.

Those who run the lotteries love it when players look for consistency in something that's designed not to have any.

There is one and only one 'proven' system, and that is to book the action. No matter the game, let the players pick their own losers.

Kentucky
United States
Member #32652
February 14, 2006
7308 Posts
Offline
 Posted: May 26, 2014, 2:56 am - IP Logged

I am looking to increase my odds of winning a Life Changing Prize (LCP) on a scratch ticket. My idea is to create a "Scratch Ticket Square Pool",

Folks may, each early February, buy into a Superbowl Square Pool where you can win a set amount of money if the score of the game matches your "numbers" on the grid at the end of any quarter. These are lots of fun and you may win some decent money if you by a high-end square for \$50 or \$100 and you get lucky. But what if you purchased one square for \$10 or \$15 dollars and had the chance to win \$10,000, \$50,000, \$1,000,000 or even \$15,000,000?

Scratch tickets come in "books" or "packs" with different amounts of tickets per book/pack in different price levels. For example, most \$1 tickets come in books of 300 and most \$5 tickets come in books of 150-300 tickets. All \$10 games come in books of 100 tickets and the newly released \$30 game has 50 tickets per pack.

I will be creating a Scratch Ticket Square Pool that will work like this:

There will be ten rows and ten columns to create a grid with 100 squares. Each square will be numbered from 00 to 99. To use a \$10 scratch ticket as an example (100 tickets per book), each square will be sold for \$10. Players would get to choose the numbered square they want based on what is not already selected. Three days after the last square is sold, the winning square will be selected using the MIDDLE TWO numbers in the Mass Lottery EVENING daily number. So, if you purchased square number 31 and the last square was sold on Monday afternoon,and the evening daily number drawn on Thursday was 9317, you would win a complete book of \$10 scratch tickets! Let's face it, your odds of finding that LCP is far better scratching a whole book than simply buying an occasional ticket. Plus, even if you do not find a LCP, you are very likely to come out with \$500-\$800 profit.

This pool would obviously be with people I know (friends and acquaintances) and be driven by a popular social media site.

So, is it legal to collect \$10 or \$15 from 100 friends and use a foolproof way to select one who receives (wins) a full book of tickets? Most people I have ran this idea by think it is great and will definitely play. I am not profiting from this endeavor (unless I win or one of the square buyers wins big and "thanks" me with a monetary gift of appreciation)

"I am not profiting from this endeavor"

That depends on how many tickets are a book. If it's 100, you won't make a dime so the obvious question is why do it?

The ticket winner will probably win over \$5000, but will the other 99 players continue and if they do, for how long winning nothing?

"(unless I win or one of the square buyers wins big and "thanks" me with a monetary gift of appreciation)"

If you're playing, that's going to be a red flag to many of the players if you win no matter how you explain the process of selecting the winning square. Oh the other hand, there is no reason to run the game if there is no profit and you can't play.

Running the game is about the same legally as running a home poker game so check with your local and probably state authorities.

Kentucky
United States
Member #32652
February 14, 2006
7308 Posts
Offline
 Posted: May 26, 2014, 3:49 am - IP Logged

The most common football pool is the standard 100 square football pool.  At almost every Super Bowl party you have ever been to you might have seen this 10 x 10 betting sheet and wondered what it is. There's nothing like a friendly little game to liven up the party during the Super Bowl. This pool is built around a simple chart calls for no skill or previous knowledge of how to bet the spread or of the game of football in general. In this article I will explain how easy this to partake in and how much fun this form of gambling on football can add to the game.

How a 100 square football pool works is very simple. Whoever the party host or pool host may be creates at 10 squares by 10 squares chart; this is numbered on each axis from 0-9.  Each axis is also labeled home/away or by each team playing, if chosen.

The pool host will then try to sell each square on the chart, usually ranging from \$5-\$100, depending on the type of clientele buying the squares. After all the squares have been sold, each box is then assigned at random so that everyone has a fair chance to get a coveted square. Another method some pool hosts use is to have all the entrants write their names down inside a single square of their liking on the blank 100 square pool sheet and then use 10 cards (Ace through Nine) to randomly draw the numbers at the top and side of the pool sheet.

How do you know which squares are the best? This is simple, so the way this works is that every square on the board will assign two numbers. For instance, if you had a square in the middle of the board, this would correspond to 5 for the home team and 5 for the away team. So what do those 5's mean?

The numbers 0-9 correspond to either the last number in the home or away team score depending on where the square is located. So 20 points would be a 0 whereas 35 would be 5 points.

So how do you win? At the end of the first quarter, halftime, third quarter, and final score whatever the score is will be awarded to the person who owns that square. If the score is 17-10 at the half with the home team winning, the person with the squares of 7 and 0 would win that portion of the game. Having the squares 0 and 7 would not help because it would be assigned to the wrong teams. Usually the total money is divided by 5, and is paid out as follows. 1st quarter, Halftime, and 3rd quarter all get a 1/5 of the total bank and the Final Score doubles this to 2/5. So if you were involved on a \$5 dollar pool and all 100 squares were filled that would be \$500 to be paid out. With that number you would get paid \$200 for final score and \$100 for all other scores.

Which numbers are the best to have when entering the office pool? The top 5 most common scores for NFL games since 1970 are 20-17, 17-14, 27-24, 13-10, and 24-17.  So as you can see if one of your numbers is 0, 3, 4, or 7, then you already have a leg-up on the competition.

__________________________________________________________________

Usually those who run such pools save the best squares for their friends and try to get others to buy the not so good squares.

"At almost every Super Bowl party you have ever been to you might have seen this 10 x 10 betting sheet and wondered what it is."

LMAO @ "you might have seen". But then again the article was probably written for those who never saw football or even basketball squares or never wondered why that guy threw his shoe at the TV when a team scored 1 second before the end of a quarter.

"The numbers 0-9 correspond to either the last number in the home or away team score depending on where the square is located. So 20 points would be a 0 whereas 35 would be 5 points."

One team uses the left to right numbers and the other uses top to bottom and team names are entered before the squares are picked. Nobody betting on random squares cares who the home team is in the Super bowl game.

"Usually those who run such pools save the best squares for their friends and try to get others to buy the not so good squares."

In the honest football square pools, the number for each square is drawn and determined AFTER all the squares are covered and that's how it's explained in the article you posted, but probably never read. Those who run the type of "such pools" you're talking about are cheating.

There are several ways to organize football squares, but they are usually played by friends who do their best to make it fair and uncomplicated for everyone.

NY State
United States
Member #92609
June 10, 2010
3701 Posts
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 Posted: May 26, 2014, 5:40 am - IP Logged

I am looking to increase my odds of winning a Life Changing Prize (LCP) on a scratch ticket. My idea is to create a "Scratch Ticket Square Pool",

Folks may, each early February, buy into a Superbowl Square Pool where you can win a set amount of money if the score of the game matches your "numbers" on the grid at the end of any quarter. These are lots of fun and you may win some decent money if you by a high-end square for \$50 or \$100 and you get lucky. But what if you purchased one square for \$10 or \$15 dollars and had the chance to win \$10,000, \$50,000, \$1,000,000 or even \$15,000,000?

Scratch tickets come in "books" or "packs" with different amounts of tickets per book/pack in different price levels. For example, most \$1 tickets come in books of 300 and most \$5 tickets come in books of 150-300 tickets. All \$10 games come in books of 100 tickets and the newly released \$30 game has 50 tickets per pack.

I will be creating a Scratch Ticket Square Pool that will work like this:

There will be ten rows and ten columns to create a grid with 100 squares. Each square will be numbered from 00 to 99. To use a \$10 scratch ticket as an example (100 tickets per book), each square will be sold for \$10. Players would get to choose the numbered square they want based on what is not already selected. Three days after the last square is sold, the winning square will be selected using the MIDDLE TWO numbers in the Mass Lottery EVENING daily number. So, if you purchased square number 31 and the last square was sold on Monday afternoon,and the evening daily number drawn on Thursday was 9317, you would win a complete book of \$10 scratch tickets! Let's face it, your odds of finding that LCP is far better scratching a whole book than simply buying an occasional ticket. Plus, even if you do not find a LCP, you are very likely to come out with \$500-\$800 profit.

This pool would obviously be with people I know (friends and acquaintances) and be driven by a popular social media site.

So, is it legal to collect \$10 or \$15 from 100 friends and use a foolproof way to select one who receives (wins) a full book of tickets? Most people I have ran this idea by think it is great and will definitely play. I am not profiting from this endeavor (unless I win or one of the square buyers wins big and "thanks" me with a monetary gift of appreciation)

I don't see a problem with the legality of doing this.

If I bought a ten dollar scratch-off, and subsequently decided I didn't want it (before scratching it) and sold it  for 10 dollars to someone else, what's the problem?  As I see it, the same holds true if I sold an entire pack of unopened scratch-offs to someone else. (As long as it was sold for the same price that was paid for it.)  In your case, you're actually selling the chance to win the book for a fraction of what it would cost to buy it.

The legality of running the pool is probably the better question, but then how could the cops possibly enforce a law that bans it?  Never saw anybody get busted for running a Superbowl pool.  The cops themselves run them

PS I absolutely love the idea. I'm going to test the waters about doing exactly the same thing with people I work with. What I might do to generate pool participant interest a little quicker, is to go ahead and buy the book of scratch off's first, and use it as "bait" when I approach people about joining the pool.  Something tells me I may not need it though!!

About playing the lottery --  You will lose more than you win. Until you hit a jackpot.  Then everything changes!

Mass
United States
Member #68073
December 12, 2008
217 Posts
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 Posted: May 26, 2014, 10:38 am - IP Logged

I don't see a problem with the legality of doing this.

If I bought a ten dollar scratch-off, and subsequently decided I didn't want it (before scratching it) and sold it  for 10 dollars to someone else, what's the problem?  As I see it, the same holds true if I sold an entire pack of unopened scratch-offs to someone else. (As long as it was sold for the same price that was paid for it.)  In your case, you're actually selling the chance to win the book for a fraction of what it would cost to buy it.

The legality of running the pool is probably the better question, but then how could the cops possibly enforce a law that bans it?  Never saw anybody get busted for running a Superbowl pool.  The cops themselves run them

PS I absolutely love the idea. I'm going to test the waters about doing exactly the same thing with people I work with. What I might do to generate pool participant interest a little quicker, is to go ahead and buy the book of scratch off's first, and use it as "bait" when I approach people about joining the pool.  Something tells me I may not need it though!!

Thanks! The thing is that everyone who I have asked is equally enthused. Through that social media site, it could spread quickly and i can envision filling a square pool every 7-10 days. Someone is bound to come up huge!

mid-Ohio
United States
Member #9
March 24, 2001
19825 Posts
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 Posted: May 26, 2014, 10:55 am - IP Logged

I am looking to increase my odds of winning a Life Changing Prize (LCP) on a scratch ticket. My idea is to create a "Scratch Ticket Square Pool",

Folks may, each early February, buy into a Superbowl Square Pool where you can win a set amount of money if the score of the game matches your "numbers" on the grid at the end of any quarter. These are lots of fun and you may win some decent money if you by a high-end square for \$50 or \$100 and you get lucky. But what if you purchased one square for \$10 or \$15 dollars and had the chance to win \$10,000, \$50,000, \$1,000,000 or even \$15,000,000?

Scratch tickets come in "books" or "packs" with different amounts of tickets per book/pack in different price levels. For example, most \$1 tickets come in books of 300 and most \$5 tickets come in books of 150-300 tickets. All \$10 games come in books of 100 tickets and the newly released \$30 game has 50 tickets per pack.

I will be creating a Scratch Ticket Square Pool that will work like this:

There will be ten rows and ten columns to create a grid with 100 squares. Each square will be numbered from 00 to 99. To use a \$10 scratch ticket as an example (100 tickets per book), each square will be sold for \$10. Players would get to choose the numbered square they want based on what is not already selected. Three days after the last square is sold, the winning square will be selected using the MIDDLE TWO numbers in the Mass Lottery EVENING daily number. So, if you purchased square number 31 and the last square was sold on Monday afternoon,and the evening daily number drawn on Thursday was 9317, you would win a complete book of \$10 scratch tickets! Let's face it, your odds of finding that LCP is far better scratching a whole book than simply buying an occasional ticket. Plus, even if you do not find a LCP, you are very likely to come out with \$500-\$800 profit.

This pool would obviously be with people I know (friends and acquaintances) and be driven by a popular social media site.

So, is it legal to collect \$10 or \$15 from 100 friends and use a foolproof way to select one who receives (wins) a full book of tickets? Most people I have ran this idea by think it is great and will definitely play. I am not profiting from this endeavor (unless I win or one of the square buyers wins big and "thanks" me with a monetary gift of appreciation)

"I am looking to increase my odds of winning a Life Changing Prize (LCP) on a scratch ticket.
I am not profiting from this endeavor "

You're either doing one or the other you can't do both.  Which on one is it?

* you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket *

NY
United States
Member #23835
October 16, 2005
3474 Posts
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 Posted: May 26, 2014, 5:45 pm - IP Logged

"Is it legal?"

Are there people openly playing the numbers on every corner where you live? The same word will answer your question and mine.

"But what if you purchased one square for \$10 or \$15 dollars and had the chance to win \$10,000, \$50,000, \$1,000,000 or even \$15,000,000?"

Do you expect to sell well over \$15 million worth of tickets or do you have some other plan for paying somebody of they win \$15 million?

Zeta Reticuli Star System
United States
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January 17, 2006
10351 Posts
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 Posted: May 26, 2014, 5:57 pm - IP Logged

Well Stack I see you still get you jollies by trying to vivisect other people's posts.

Must be awful to be that insecure.

I did read the article (duh, I posted it, nicht var?).

Most of the people I've seen trying to sell squares in pools are looking for think-they-know-it all chumps (gee that has a familiar ring to it) and are trying to get them to buy the worse squares.

And for your information, where sports betting is legal 13 run baseball pools are far more popular.

"Honest football poll squares" - hilarious as sports betting is legal in Nevada and no other state.

Those who run the lotteries love it when players look for consistency in something that's designed not to have any.

There is one and only one 'proven' system, and that is to book the action. No matter the game, let the players pick their own losers.

Economy class
Belgium
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February 27, 2012
4035 Posts
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 Posted: May 26, 2014, 6:26 pm - IP Logged

Anything you type will be used against you in the court of law, you have the right to remain without typing. ...

Mass
United States
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December 12, 2008
217 Posts
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 Posted: May 26, 2014, 7:40 pm - IP Logged

"Is it legal?"

Are there people openly playing the numbers on every corner where you live? The same word will answer your question and mine.

"But what if you purchased one square for \$10 or \$15 dollars and had the chance to win \$10,000, \$50,000, \$1,000,000 or even \$15,000,000?"

Do you expect to sell well over \$15 million worth of tickets or do you have some other plan for paying somebody of they win \$15 million?

I am not paying anyone. Just handing one a book of tickets to one of 100 people.

Mass
United States
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December 12, 2008
217 Posts
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 Posted: May 26, 2014, 7:45 pm - IP Logged

I increase my odds by having a 1 in 100 chance to scratch a book of 100 tickets, something I would not otherwise do.

I make no profit off of the pool itself. Any profit I got would be after winning the pool, if I were to  be so lucky.

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