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8 x 15 (Pick 3)

Topic closed. 52 replies. Last post 2 years ago by adobea78.

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PeerGynt's avatar - nw archer.jpg
Simi Valley, CA
United States
Member #156940
July 4, 2014
671 Posts
Offline
Posted: August 12, 2014, 1:34 am - IP Logged

Question: Has anyone done this before? Is it possible? And would it even be helpful, or completely useless?

I guess that's three questions, actually…. Smiley

I've utilized a variation of this myself. This centers on non-doubles/non-triples boxes only, in the Daily 3 game (California, which uses an algorithm method).

1) First, you take all 120 possible boxes, running in lowest-to-highest order. (Here's one site that can easily calculate and lay them out for you, using letters: http://www.mathsisfun.com/combinatorics/combinations-permutations-calculator.html )

2) You divide them into 15 sets of 8 ( = 120). However, HOW you divide them, is key—back to this in a minute.

3) You basically track them like you track anything else, seeing what set of boxes is due or not, over a series of plays.

But here's where a math expert's required, not me rummaging around: How would you divide the sets of boxes, PERFECTLY equally? All sets would contain the same number of different digits, or as close as possible; everything would be perfectly even, but not so perfect, or pattern-inducing, as to seem like groupings: all would appear to be a jumble, but would actually be as even a distribution as possible of all similarities in each set.  (Maybe there are mathematical models/formulas/theories/etc. already, for doing this?)

The reason for this, is so that the game can't—or as little as possible—create anomalous "long outs," that cause players to chase endlessly & needlessly after "dues."

The overall purpose would be to, as much as possible, limit the variance between each one firing off, having one of its 8 boxes hit.  It would probably be best in only pursuing "outs": but the pursuit, done right, would be drastically limited (right?).

I figure 8 is the perfect amount of such sets: not too many as to be unwieldy, not too few as to create endlessly long "outs." KEY, most important: totally "mixed up" so as to not allow the algorithm to escape to groupings and trendings and other evasions.

…? Useful, or just stupid? What?

    Avatar
    bgonçalves
    Brasil
    Member #92564
    June 9, 2010
    2122 Posts
    Offline
    Posted: August 12, 2014, 12:05 pm - IP Logged

    Peer hello, pick the 3 you have to look for the pairs posicioniais
      Example = 1st 2nd 3rd
                         1 or 2 5 8 3 6
    Well = 1st 2nd 1ª3ª 2ª3ª
    Well each pick 3 has 3 positions of pairs with pairs of digits = even / odd
      Example = 851 = odd pair at position 51 = 2nd 3rd
    Or example = 263 pair, 1ª2ª 2 = 6
      Then the apres can be odd and even transiting under the three positions (1.2 1.3 2.3)
      odd
    13
    15
    17
    19
    35
    37
    39
    57
    59
    79
    pairs
    24
    26
    28
    20
    46
    48
    40
    68
    60
    80

      Avatar
      bgonçalves
      Brasil
      Member #92564
      June 9, 2010
      2122 Posts
      Offline
      Posted: August 12, 2014, 12:07 pm - IP Logged

      ex= 24x, 2x4,  x24=    3º digit odd

        Avatar
        South Carolina
        United States
        Member #18322
        July 9, 2005
        1704 Posts
        Offline
        Posted: August 12, 2014, 12:08 pm - IP Logged

        Question: Has anyone done this before? Is it possible? And would it even be helpful, or completely useless?

        I guess that's three questions, actually…. Smiley

        I've utilized a variation of this myself. This centers on non-doubles/non-triples boxes only, in the Daily 3 game (California, which uses an algorithm method).

        1) First, you take all 120 possible boxes, running in lowest-to-highest order. (Here's one site that can easily calculate and lay them out for you, using letters: http://www.mathsisfun.com/combinatorics/combinations-permutations-calculator.html )

        2) You divide them into 15 sets of 8 ( = 120). However, HOW you divide them, is key—back to this in a minute.

        3) You basically track them like you track anything else, seeing what set of boxes is due or not, over a series of plays.

        But here's where a math expert's required, not me rummaging around: How would you divide the sets of boxes, PERFECTLY equally? All sets would contain the same number of different digits, or as close as possible; everything would be perfectly even, but not so perfect, or pattern-inducing, as to seem like groupings: all would appear to be a jumble, but would actually be as even a distribution as possible of all similarities in each set.  (Maybe there are mathematical models/formulas/theories/etc. already, for doing this?)

        The reason for this, is so that the game can't—or as little as possible—create anomalous "long outs," that cause players to chase endlessly & needlessly after "dues."

        The overall purpose would be to, as much as possible, limit the variance between each one firing off, having one of its 8 boxes hit.  It would probably be best in only pursuing "outs": but the pursuit, done right, would be drastically limited (right?).

        I figure 8 is the perfect amount of such sets: not too many as to be unwieldy, not too few as to create endlessly long "outs." KEY, most important: totally "mixed up" so as to not allow the algorithm to escape to groupings and trendings and other evasions.

        …? Useful, or just stupid? What?

        You are making Pick 3 too difficult.  The game is Not Rocket ScienceDon't go there.  You don't need to play a large group of numbers to win.

        You sound very intelligent.  Has it ever occurred to you to wonder how it is that some people can win Pick 3 or Pick 4, by playing as few numbers as a VTAC string, or even less. Pick 3 VTRAC = 8 numbers. Pick 4 VTRAC = 16 numbers.

        I would aim for "EVEN LESS".  Figure that out.

          WIN  D's avatar - q05Q0
          Stone Mountain*Georgia
          United States
          Member #828
          November 2, 2002
          10491 Posts
          Offline
          Posted: August 12, 2014, 1:51 pm - IP Logged

          Before VTRAC's were thought up....I just called them "Mirrors." Wasted a lot of time on VTRAC's  then dropped them for just that reason. Redundant. 

          You can only use just so many things at this point of our state of the art play.  Still don't get pairs either. I have tried but don't get pairs. I use them for confirmations ...after everything else is done.....but just can't use them as "front line targets".   They just produce too many numbers as primary filters. Just never got it. 

           I broke down pairs into a pretty good grouping chart back when. Now those had and still have some promise. Ghost Pairs... Mirror Pairs... etc Chart. Placed them on my Blog years ago but haven't posted them in a long time.       

           

           

          The only real failure .....is the failure to try.                               

                                        Luck is a very rare thing....... Odds not so much. 

                                        Odds never change .....but probability does. 

                                                                                                 Win d    

            Blackapple's avatar - nw rogue2.jpg
            Wyncote,Pa
            United States
            Member #3206
            January 3, 2004
            60721 Posts
            Offline
            Posted: August 12, 2014, 2:39 pm - IP Logged

            0

            1

            2

            3

            4

            5

            6

            7

            8

            9

            037

            029

            039

            049

            013

            014

            015

            016

            017

            018

            127

            038

            057

            058

            059

            023

            079

            025

            035

            027

            136

            047

            129

            067

            149

            069

            169

            034

            125

            036

            145

            056

            138

            148

            158

            078

            178

            124

            134

            045

            235

            128

            147

            238

            167

            168

            259

            269

            189

            126

            389

            146

            156

            247

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            349

            278

            279

            289

            479

            236

            237

            256

            257

            258

            358

            368

            369

            469

            569

            245

            589

            346

            347

            267

            367

            458

            378

            478

            578

            489

            679

            689

            356

            348

            457

            467

            459

            568

            019

            678

            345

            012

            789

            456

            123

            089

            567

            234

            028

            137

            048

            139

            068

            159

            024

            179

            026

            135

            046

            579

            246

            157

            248

            357

            268

            359

            468

            379

             0

             1

             2

             3

             4 

            5

             6

             7 

             8

             9

            This centers on non-doubles/non-triples boxes only, in the Daily 3 game

            1) First, you take all 120 possible boxes

             

             

            WinD has done this before.. sectioned them in quarters

              Blackapple's avatar - nw rogue2.jpg
              Wyncote,Pa
              United States
              Member #3206
              January 3, 2004
              60721 Posts
              Offline
              Posted: August 12, 2014, 2:44 pm - IP Logged

              quads 120 chart

              Published: October 3, 2004, 2:15 pm

               

                      WinD's Quad Chart                                                                                 

                         

               

               

               A

               

               

                             

               

                   B

               

               

              0

              1

              2

              3

              4

               

              5

              6

              7

              8

              9

               

              1

              037

              029

              039

              049

              013

               

              014

              015

              016

              017

              018

              1>

              2

              127

              038

              057

              058

              059

               

              023

              079

              025

              035

              027

               

              3

              136

              047

              129

              067

              149

               

              069

              169

              034

              125

              036

               

              4

              145

              056

              138

              148

              158

               

              078

              178

              124

              134

              045

              2>

              5

              235

              128

              147

              238

              167

               

              168

              259

              269

              189

              126

               

              6

              389

              146

              156

              247

              239

               

              249

              349

              278

              279

              289

               

               

               

               

              C

               

               

               

               

               

              D

               

               

               

              7

              479

              236

              237

              256

              257

               

              258

              358

              368

              369

              469

              3>

              8

              569

              245

              589

              346

              347

               

              267

              367

              458

              378

              478

               

              9

              578

              489

              679

              689

              356

               

              348

              457

              467

              459

              568

               

              10

              019

              678

              345

              012

              789

               

              456

              123

              089

              567

              234

              4>

              11

              028

              137

              048

              139

              068

               

              159

              024

              179

              026

              135

               

              12

              046

              579

              246

              157

              248

               

              357

              268

              359

              468

              379

               

               

               0

               1

                2

               3

                4 

               

              5

                6

               7 

                8

               9

                Avatar
                backwoods ga
                United States
                Member #155844
                May 31, 2014
                1887 Posts
                Offline
                Posted: August 12, 2014, 5:15 pm - IP Logged

                Question: Has anyone done this before? Is it possible? And would it even be helpful, or completely useless?

                I guess that's three questions, actually…. Smiley

                I've utilized a variation of this myself. This centers on non-doubles/non-triples boxes only, in the Daily 3 game (California, which uses an algorithm method).

                1) First, you take all 120 possible boxes, running in lowest-to-highest order. (Here's one site that can easily calculate and lay them out for you, using letters: http://www.mathsisfun.com/combinatorics/combinations-permutations-calculator.html )

                2) You divide them into 15 sets of 8 ( = 120). However, HOW you divide them, is key—back to this in a minute.

                3) You basically track them like you track anything else, seeing what set of boxes is due or not, over a series of plays.

                But here's where a math expert's required, not me rummaging around: How would you divide the sets of boxes, PERFECTLY equally? All sets would contain the same number of different digits, or as close as possible; everything would be perfectly even, but not so perfect, or pattern-inducing, as to seem like groupings: all would appear to be a jumble, but would actually be as even a distribution as possible of all similarities in each set.  (Maybe there are mathematical models/formulas/theories/etc. already, for doing this?)

                The reason for this, is so that the game can't—or as little as possible—create anomalous "long outs," that cause players to chase endlessly & needlessly after "dues."

                The overall purpose would be to, as much as possible, limit the variance between each one firing off, having one of its 8 boxes hit.  It would probably be best in only pursuing "outs": but the pursuit, done right, would be drastically limited (right?).

                I figure 8 is the perfect amount of such sets: not too many as to be unwieldy, not too few as to create endlessly long "outs." KEY, most important: totally "mixed up" so as to not allow the algorithm to escape to groupings and trendings and other evasions.

                …? Useful, or just stupid? What?

                Great idea.

                my name Lil Darryl   you got some Milk

                  PeerGynt's avatar - nw archer.jpg
                  Simi Valley, CA
                  United States
                  Member #156940
                  July 4, 2014
                  671 Posts
                  Offline
                  Posted: August 12, 2014, 7:52 pm - IP Logged

                  Thanks, all, for the great suggestions and additions.

                  Dr. San - I'm sorry, I'm just almost completely lost by what you're explaining - I'm still new here, and don't quite get the jargon or gist of things all the time. It looks like you have a well-worked out theory, though. Could you explain it step by step?

                  DestinyCreations - thank you, that's very kind, but see my response to Dr. San above. Smiley  I'm not really familiar with Vtracs (nor mirrors, WinD), but I'm meaning to get to them, since so many here - just like you say - have shown amazing skills in utilizing them. So there must be something to that.

                  BlackApple - That's great, you took the 120 and found a way to make 10s, but unlike how I was doing it - just slicing it up as it comes - it seems like this indeed does evenly distribute them.

                  The interesting thing about slicing them up into 10s starting from lowest to highest digit - 012, 013, 014, etc., all the way to 789 (the terminus point) - is that - as you study the way they pay off or not - you realize some sets will fire off quickly, while some go on for long, even long, stretches.  So I wonder if this itself isn't a clue to the secret algorithm: maybe (like someone once told me concerning Apple's own super-secret iPod shuffling algorithm [true or not? unknown]) the game doesn't randomize from the whole; but rather, concentrates on certain areas (or, avoids others), sort of "dancing around" in those before moving on to another section. (e.g., the D3 will hover for a time around the 3 digits, but avoid the 7 digits.) Maybe it even varies the time it spends with, away, or long away, from certain sections, for total randomization of the game considered as a whole (i.e., not blip by blip, play by play, as we encounter it).

                  The standard slicing, seems to "reveal" this compelling data; but if one could (and hopefully all your examples here are indicative of this) mess up that algorithmic pattern, one wouldn't get caught in long-outs, or miss all the short-outs.

                  Of course, just becoming savvy with the way the game DOES randomize… maybe that's good enough as it is?

                  Lidaryyl: Thanks! Smile

                    PeerGynt's avatar - nw archer.jpg
                    Simi Valley, CA
                    United States
                    Member #156940
                    July 4, 2014
                    671 Posts
                    Offline
                    Posted: August 12, 2014, 8:09 pm - IP Logged

                    Correction - I messed up there - those last two are WinD's charts!  Sorry about that, my friend.

                    But thanks, Blackapple, for re-posting them.

                    Smiley

                      Igamble's avatar - spider
                      nj
                      United States
                      Member #145657
                      August 10, 2013
                      974 Posts
                      Offline
                      Posted: August 12, 2014, 9:15 pm - IP Logged

                      You are making Pick 3 too difficult.  The game is Not Rocket ScienceDon't go there.  You don't need to play a large group of numbers to win.

                      You sound very intelligent.  Has it ever occurred to you to wonder how it is that some people can win Pick 3 or Pick 4, by playing as few numbers as a VTAC string, or even less. Pick 3 VTRAC = 8 numbers. Pick 4 VTRAC = 16 numbers.

                      I would aim for "EVEN LESS".  Figure that out.

                      THE V'$-even less ,odd more to b played one can win more and loose less.Wink

                        Avatar
                        Kentucky
                        United States
                        Member #32652
                        February 14, 2006
                        7308 Posts
                        Offline
                        Posted: August 14, 2014, 6:55 pm - IP Logged

                        "How would you divide the sets of boxes, PERFECTLY equally?"

                        You can't do it by dividing the 120 box combos by 8, but what about by 12 giving you 12 groups with 10 lines? 830, 941, 052, 163, 274, 385, 496, 507, 618, 729 is an example of one of the unique 12 groups. To get the 12 groups, start with the lowest sum with 3 different digits, 012, add 1 to each digit, 012, 123, 234, 345, 456,, 567, 678, 789, 890, 901 and that line has 10 lines with consecutive digits. Next 013, 124, 235, 346, 457, 568, 679, 780, 891, 902.

                        That's three of the lines and you can get the other nine if you're interested. Each each group has a 1 in 22 probability. The groups starting with 024 and 026 each have 5 all even and 5 all odd lines.

                          Avatar
                          Kentucky
                          United States
                          Member #32652
                          February 14, 2006
                          7308 Posts
                          Offline
                          Posted: August 14, 2014, 7:40 pm - IP Logged

                          You are making Pick 3 too difficult.  The game is Not Rocket ScienceDon't go there.  You don't need to play a large group of numbers to win.

                          You sound very intelligent.  Has it ever occurred to you to wonder how it is that some people can win Pick 3 or Pick 4, by playing as few numbers as a VTAC string, or even less. Pick 3 VTRAC = 8 numbers. Pick 4 VTRAC = 16 numbers.

                          I would aim for "EVEN LESS".  Figure that out.

                          So if I believe because of a number of factors 396 will be drawn tonight or in the near future, it looks like you're suggesting I should play 391, 346, 341, 896, 891, 846, 841 too. I really dislike pointing out the obvious, but if I like 3 first digit position, 9 in the second, and 6 in the third, why would I play 841 or waste money by betting against what I believe has a good chance of being drawn?

                          And I can't figure out how adding 7 more 3 digit numbers plus 6 box combos each is "aiming for even less".

                            Avatar

                            United States
                            Member #116344
                            September 8, 2011
                            3926 Posts
                            Offline
                            Posted: August 14, 2014, 8:20 pm - IP Logged

                            Thanks, all, for the great suggestions and additions.

                            Dr. San - I'm sorry, I'm just almost completely lost by what you're explaining - I'm still new here, and don't quite get the jargon or gist of things all the time. It looks like you have a well-worked out theory, though. Could you explain it step by step?

                            DestinyCreations - thank you, that's very kind, but see my response to Dr. San above. Smiley  I'm not really familiar with Vtracs (nor mirrors, WinD), but I'm meaning to get to them, since so many here - just like you say - have shown amazing skills in utilizing them. So there must be something to that.

                            BlackApple - That's great, you took the 120 and found a way to make 10s, but unlike how I was doing it - just slicing it up as it comes - it seems like this indeed does evenly distribute them.

                            The interesting thing about slicing them up into 10s starting from lowest to highest digit - 012, 013, 014, etc., all the way to 789 (the terminus point) - is that - as you study the way they pay off or not - you realize some sets will fire off quickly, while some go on for long, even long, stretches.  So I wonder if this itself isn't a clue to the secret algorithm: maybe (like someone once told me concerning Apple's own super-secret iPod shuffling algorithm [true or not? unknown]) the game doesn't randomize from the whole; but rather, concentrates on certain areas (or, avoids others), sort of "dancing around" in those before moving on to another section. (e.g., the D3 will hover for a time around the 3 digits, but avoid the 7 digits.) Maybe it even varies the time it spends with, away, or long away, from certain sections, for total randomization of the game considered as a whole (i.e., not blip by blip, play by play, as we encounter it).

                            The standard slicing, seems to "reveal" this compelling data; but if one could (and hopefully all your examples here are indicative of this) mess up that algorithmic pattern, one wouldn't get caught in long-outs, or miss all the short-outs.

                            Of course, just becoming savvy with the way the game DOES randomize… maybe that's good enough as it is?

                            Lidaryyl: Thanks! Smile

                            The key word is PREDICTION, good luck with  algorithm!.  Slicing, subsetting, down-scaling is what every player does because you can't bet 1000 combos.Slicing depends much on a data, what type of data(Historical or extrapolated). Prediction is not a exact science(more intuitive than logic),so keep you line of thought simple, less analytical,  good luck.

                              PeerGynt's avatar - nw archer.jpg
                              Simi Valley, CA
                              United States
                              Member #156940
                              July 4, 2014
                              671 Posts
                              Offline
                              Posted: August 14, 2014, 11:51 pm - IP Logged

                              "How would you divide the sets of boxes, PERFECTLY equally?"

                              You can't do it by dividing the 120 box combos by 8, but what about by 12 giving you 12 groups with 10 lines? 830, 941, 052, 163, 274, 385, 496, 507, 618, 729 is an example of one of the unique 12 groups. To get the 12 groups, start with the lowest sum with 3 different digits, 012, add 1 to each digit, 012, 123, 234, 345, 456,, 567, 678, 789, 890, 901 and that line has 10 lines with consecutive digits. Next 013, 124, 235, 346, 457, 568, 679, 780, 891, 902.

                              That's three of the lines and you can get the other nine if you're interested. Each each group has a 1 in 22 probability. The groups starting with 024 and 026 each have 5 all even and 5 all odd lines.

                              This is a very good separating, Stack47!  The test would be to backtrack and see how it fares; hopefully the lags between groups would be as close as possible.  I will try it out when I get some time, thanks. Smiley