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Should Camelot Pay These "Jackpot Winners"?

Topic closed. 30 replies. Last post 11 months ago by Teddi.

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Should lottery players be penalized for technical glitches

Yes - not the lottery's fault there was a glitch [ 4 ]  [14.29%]
No - not the couple's fault there was a glitch [ 9 ]  [32.14%]
Not sure but they should be given a consolation [ 0 ]  [0.00%]
This was probably user error, they deserve nothing [ 9 ]  [32.14%]
The app company should be made to pay the couple [ 6 ]  [21.43%]
Total Valid Votes [ 28 ]  
Discarded Votes [ 3 ]  
Teddi's avatar - Lottery-008.jpg

United States
Member #142499
May 13, 2013
1182 Posts
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Posted: January 1, 2016, 10:37 pm - IP Logged

So British grandparents thought they had won 34.5 million pounds but the purchase of the ticket didn't register until after the cut off time.

If you haven't heard the story, here's the summary: When Edwina and David Nylan tried to buy a ticket using a UK lottery app on their phone, they got a notice saying they didn't have enough funds in the account to make the purchase. They added the funds and the sale of the ticket went through.The app confirmed the buy was made before the deadline. The 6 numbers they chose were the 6 number drawn that evening. 

However, the UK lottery has no record of the ticket purchase until midnight, well AFTER the 7:30pm deadline, which means it doesn't count. A fact the elderly couple didn't realize until they tried to claim their winnings. 

If this was indeed the fault of the app, should the couple be entitled to the jackpot or at least a consolation prize?

I might wake up early and go running.  I might also wake up and win the lottery.

The odds are about the same.

    RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
    mid-Ohio
    United States
    Member #9
    March 24, 2001
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    Posted: January 1, 2016, 11:22 pm - IP Logged

    Similar things have happened in the US but they aren't glitches and drawings the tickets are good for are printed on the tickets regardless which drawing the players intended. 

    It's the obligation of players to know the cut off time and not buy tickets at that time if they care about which drawing they are playing.  If those numbers had come up the next drawing, I doubt they would have refused the winnings because they were intending to play in the earlier drawing.

     * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
       
                 Evil Looking       

      MaximumMillions's avatar - Lottery-013.jpg

      Germany
      Member #164603
      March 8, 2015
      604 Posts
      Online
      Posted: January 1, 2016, 11:36 pm - IP Logged

      Maybe the app glitched, as happens all the time.

      Personally, I don't understand people cutting it that close. Sure I've entered a ticket 20min before cut-off, but never closer. I'd go insane over losing outt on a jackpot because the ticket didn't get through.

      So no, I don't think they should py. I think they should pay people who play from a vacation ou of the borders though

        Teddi's avatar - Lottery-008.jpg

        United States
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        May 13, 2013
        1182 Posts
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        Posted: January 2, 2016, 12:50 am - IP Logged

        Similar things have happened in the US but they aren't glitches and drawings the tickets are good for are printed on the tickets regardless which drawing the players intended. 

        It's the obligation of players to know the cut off time and not buy tickets at that time if they care about which drawing they are playing.  If those numbers had come up the next drawing, I doubt they would have refused the winnings because they were intending to play in the earlier drawing.

        Well, the only problem with that is that they knew the cut off time, they attempted to make the purchase before the cut off, and according to their side of things the app claimed the ticket was purchased before the cut off. 

        I always pay for my cell phone through the provider's website. Usually, the website confirms the payment went through as soon as I hit enter and my balance zeroes out. But every once in a while, the website confirms the payment went through but there is no change in my balance until hours later. When have I actually paid? When the company's own website tells me they received my payment? Or when their system gets around to applying it to my balance? 

        Seems to me something similar may have happened to this couple. It took their money, sent them a notice saying their payment was received, but the app never actually completed the transaction until hours later. If an app can take 5 hours to record and confirm the transaction, shouldn't that be something they disclose to the users?

        I might wake up early and go running.  I might also wake up and win the lottery.

        The odds are about the same.

          Avatar
          Kentucky
          United States
          Member #32652
          February 14, 2006
          7302 Posts
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          Posted: January 2, 2016, 1:02 am - IP Logged

          So British grandparents thought they had won 34.5 million pounds but the purchase of the ticket didn't register until after the cut off time.

          If you haven't heard the story, here's the summary: When Edwina and David Nylan tried to buy a ticket using a UK lottery app on their phone, they got a notice saying they didn't have enough funds in the account to make the purchase. They added the funds and the sale of the ticket went through.The app confirmed the buy was made before the deadline. The 6 numbers they chose were the 6 number drawn that evening. 

          However, the UK lottery has no record of the ticket purchase until midnight, well AFTER the 7:30pm deadline, which means it doesn't count. A fact the elderly couple didn't realize until they tried to claim their winnings. 

          If this was indeed the fault of the app, should the couple be entitled to the jackpot or at least a consolation prize?

          "If this was indeed the fault of the app, should the couple be entitled to the jackpot or at least a consolation prize?"

          Just a guess, but it looks like the app confirmed they bought a ticket for the next drawing. And the details, "grandparents" and "NSF" indicate the couple may have made the initial bet before the sales cut-off, but it wasn't recorded because they didn't have enough funds. When the account had enough funds, they were given a ticket for the next drawing.

            RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
            mid-Ohio
            United States
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            Posted: January 2, 2016, 1:30 am - IP Logged

            "If this was indeed the fault of the app, should the couple be entitled to the jackpot or at least a consolation prize?"

            Just a guess, but it looks like the app confirmed they bought a ticket for the next drawing. And the details, "grandparents" and "NSF" indicate the couple may have made the initial bet before the sales cut-off, but it wasn't recorded because they didn't have enough funds. When the account had enough funds, they were given a ticket for the next drawing.

            If they had brought tickets before at cut-off times without enough funds this had probably happened to them before and because the numbers were losers they never complained, they probably considered themselves lucky since the numbers were good for the next drawing.

             * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
               
                         Evil Looking       

              ArizonaDream's avatar - Lottery-009.jpg

              United States
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              Posted: January 2, 2016, 1:43 am - IP Logged

              Do they have any evidence for their side of the story? Like what time the bank timestamped the transaction?

                Avatar
                South Carolina
                United States
                Member #18322
                July 9, 2005
                1704 Posts
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                Posted: January 2, 2016, 1:50 am - IP Logged

                So British grandparents thought they had won 34.5 million pounds but the purchase of the ticket didn't register until after the cut off time.

                If you haven't heard the story, here's the summary: When Edwina and David Nylan tried to buy a ticket using a UK lottery app on their phone, they got a notice saying they didn't have enough funds in the account to make the purchase. They added the funds and the sale of the ticket went through.The app confirmed the buy was made before the deadline. The 6 numbers they chose were the 6 number drawn that evening. 

                However, the UK lottery has no record of the ticket purchase until midnight, well AFTER the 7:30pm deadline, which means it doesn't count. A fact the elderly couple didn't realize until they tried to claim their winnings. 

                If this was indeed the fault of the app, should the couple be entitled to the jackpot or at least a consolation prize?

                Was the lottery app the property of the UK lottery commission, or some private company ?? 

                If the lottery app belonged to the UK lottery commission, and confirmed that the ticket was purchased before the deadline, I think the couple could sue the UK lottery commission for their winnings, b/c the computer glitch was the fault of the UK lottery commission app. However, they should read the "online contract" that they had to "agree" to when they purchased the lottery app online in the first place.  There is probably a "loophole" in the "online contract" that EXCUSES computer glitches !!!

                 

                If the lottery app belonged to some private company, not representing or affiliated with the Uk lottery commission, then it was an unfortunate accidental glitch that occurred in the lottery app, but a private company cannot guarantee the functionality of their product to the extent of a certain legal right to win in the event of a computer glitch.  It's a risk that you take when you purchase the product.  Maybe the couple could sue the private company for the cost of the lottery app, if it was a paid app, but I doubt that they would have a lawsuit against the UK lottery commission for lost winnings.

                  Avatar
                  NY
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                  October 16, 2005
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                  Posted: January 2, 2016, 3:46 am - IP Logged

                  As near as I can tell, this really isn't much different than sending your friend to pick up a ticket and having him do it after the deadline.

                  They could have gone and actually bought a ticket themselves any time that they were being sold, but they chose to do it remotely using a system that they knew, or should have known, wouldn't give them a ticket as proof of the purchase. They would have gotten a confirmation email confirming a successful transaction, but failed to check (and, of course, they didn't have one when they got around to it). They admit to doing it shortly before the deadline and when they didn't have the necessary funds, so the process was complicated by having to transfer funds to the account. Depending on which article you look at, the lottery says they made multiple attempts to add funds and/or they made multiple attempts to buy the ticket.

                  I'm guessing that they went through the steps of adding funds and then tried to buy the ticket before the funds were transferred. As far as the purchase confirmation, I'm guessing that's similar to ordering just about anything else on line - you complete the order and the website confirms that the order has been submitted, but it's only the confirmation email that tells you the order has been accepted.

                  It's a pretty safe bet that the terms of service for the app are clear about the rules, including the confirmation email. There are probably TOS related to funds transfer for both the lottery and the source of the funds, and it's safe bet that it's clear that funds may not be transferred or available for use immediately.

                  Unless the funds were transferred and accepted by Camelot, and the ticket order went through on time and it's only a glitch in the ticket registration process that caused the purchase to be registered after the deadline they don't have any legitimate claim at all. Even if it was a registration glitch they're probably still SOL. The rules for every lottery I've paid attention to are very clear - the information on your ticket has to match the information recorded in the lottery's database. When you buy a ticket you agree to the rules, so it's clear that if some glitch prevents your ticket from registering properly it's not going to be a valid ticket. When you buy a ticket you're accepting the risk that you're buying a losing ticket, and you're also accepting the far smaller risk that the ticket won't be valid for some reason.

                    s5thomps's avatar - Lottery-033.jpg
                    Hard Luck, Ak
                    United States
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                    October 13, 2005
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                    Posted: January 2, 2016, 5:42 am - IP Logged

                    No Pity!Although  is probably every lottery player's worst nightmare to finally have your numbers come up only to find out you didn't get them posted in time for the drawing. They should have either waited for confirmation and not wait until the  last minute or better yet take their @ss down to the store and buy a ticket. I do feel bad for them though....It's their own fault. They let the opportunity of a lifetime slip through their fingers. if it's any consolation they are not the first people that this has happened to. So to all my fellow lotto players out there take heed. If you feel good about a set of numbers get them in early!

                    "We make a living by what you get, You make a LIFE by what you give!"

                                                                                   Sir Winston ChurchillSun Smiley

                      travelintrucker's avatar - morph
                      Greenville, SC
                      United States
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                      November 4, 2015
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                      Posted: January 2, 2016, 9:02 am - IP Logged

                      This is a great reason NOT to use new technology. Stick with going to a lottery retailer and buying an actual ticket. There should have been something somewhere that stated that purchases made on this app have to be made by such and such time. I don't have the all the evidence. So, I can't vote.

                      May the balls bounce in your favor!

                        Avatar

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                        October 13, 2015
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                        Posted: January 2, 2016, 11:30 am - IP Logged

                        Technology is great - especially when it works.

                        Talk about having your head in the cloud(s).

                        Unless I have it in my greasy little mitts, it doesn't exist.

                        I've went to purchase PB after the deadline (because the cut off is 45 mins before other JP games in CA) and the clerk reminded me it was not for that night's drawing - as a courtesy.

                        Wonder if that draw is mechanical or RNG and would the same combo come up if the slip was valid?

                          Teddi's avatar - Lottery-008.jpg

                          United States
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                          May 13, 2013
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                          Posted: January 2, 2016, 11:51 am - IP Logged

                          This is a great reason NOT to use new technology. Stick with going to a lottery retailer and buying an actual ticket. There should have been something somewhere that stated that purchases made on this app have to be made by such and such time. I don't have the all the evidence. So, I can't vote.

                          I'm afraid I can't agree with your premise. Viruses aren't a reason not to use a computer. Accidents aren't a reason not to drive a car. ATM malfunctions aren't a reason not to use a debit card. 

                          Do you have any idea how many times GPS has sent me around in circles, or to a wrong address? And yet, the positives still outweigh the negatives. I don't think occasional issues are reason enough to go back to living in the dark ages. LP is filled with stories of the horrors of directly buying a ticket from an approved vendor or getting a ticket from the lottery machines.

                          One way doesn't seem to be any better than the other. Both presents problems and challenges. The key is that the companies do their parts so that the situation doesn't repeat itself.

                          I might wake up early and go running.  I might also wake up and win the lottery.

                          The odds are about the same.

                            Teddi's avatar - Lottery-008.jpg

                            United States
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                            Posted: January 2, 2016, 12:39 pm - IP Logged

                            As near as I can tell, this really isn't much different than sending your friend to pick up a ticket and having him do it after the deadline.

                            They could have gone and actually bought a ticket themselves any time that they were being sold, but they chose to do it remotely using a system that they knew, or should have known, wouldn't give them a ticket as proof of the purchase. They would have gotten a confirmation email confirming a successful transaction, but failed to check (and, of course, they didn't have one when they got around to it). They admit to doing it shortly before the deadline and when they didn't have the necessary funds, so the process was complicated by having to transfer funds to the account. Depending on which article you look at, the lottery says they made multiple attempts to add funds and/or they made multiple attempts to buy the ticket.

                            I'm guessing that they went through the steps of adding funds and then tried to buy the ticket before the funds were transferred. As far as the purchase confirmation, I'm guessing that's similar to ordering just about anything else on line - you complete the order and the website confirms that the order has been submitted, but it's only the confirmation email that tells you the order has been accepted.

                            It's a pretty safe bet that the terms of service for the app are clear about the rules, including the confirmation email. There are probably TOS related to funds transfer for both the lottery and the source of the funds, and it's safe bet that it's clear that funds may not be transferred or available for use immediately.

                            Unless the funds were transferred and accepted by Camelot, and the ticket order went through on time and it's only a glitch in the ticket registration process that caused the purchase to be registered after the deadline they don't have any legitimate claim at all. Even if it was a registration glitch they're probably still SOL. The rules for every lottery I've paid attention to are very clear - the information on your ticket has to match the information recorded in the lottery's database. When you buy a ticket you agree to the rules, so it's clear that if some glitch prevents your ticket from registering properly it's not going to be a valid ticket. When you buy a ticket you're accepting the risk that you're buying a losing ticket, and you're also accepting the far smaller risk that the ticket won't be valid for some reason.

                            "As near as I can tell, this really isn't much different than sending your friend to pick up a ticket and having him do it after the deadline."

                            Actually, it is completely and wholly different. It would be more like your friend has a business whose job it is to buy lottery tickets as soon as you give him the money. Your friend went to the store to get your ticket and called you from the store saying, I have your ticket, these are your lottery numbers. Then your friend hung around the store for about 5 hours before actually purchasing the ticket. That makes it a completely different scenario. 

                            Now, there are many different versions of the story and each party involved also has a different tale. Who to believe? 

                             

                            I tried to pay my dentist with a credit card and the card reader gave an error message so we ran the card again. The second time it showed "APPROVED" and the receipt printed. Next day there's a double bill on my card. The credit card company said I paid twice, the dentist's office showed no money was taken on the first attempt and no confirmation# was issued from my card company. Few days later the transaction disappeared from my card. Not refunded. Just disappeared.

                            Exact same transaction; two companies telling me two different "facts" as they saw it. Nylans and Camelot are giving us their facts as they see it.

                             

                            But it comes down to this: The couple chose to go with QP. If they were given the QP numbers prior to the deadline, confirmation email received or not, that should be proof enough that a transaction was processed in time. Because you can't get the numbers without the transaction going through. The length of time the company takes to issue a confirmation does not matter. However, if their numbers were given to them after the deadline then they have no case. In the former scenario they did everything they were required to do and did it on time. In the latter scenario the deadline was missed on every possible level. 

                            I might wake up early and go running.  I might also wake up and win the lottery.

                            The odds are about the same.

                              savagegoose's avatar - ProfilePho
                              adelaide sa
                              Australia
                              Member #37136
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                              Posted: January 2, 2016, 1:40 pm - IP Logged

                              not sure what the " glitch is.  buy your tickets way before the cut off, check the date on the ticket, and only celebrate, an actual win. not what you think you won.  if there was a retailer, print a ticket, and you  said wait i got no money, they might let you go to get the cash before handing ot over. but if it ended up a winner and you came back 4 hours late,  . maybe not so  much.

                               

                              no money, too bad, so sad

                              2014 = -1016; 2015= -1409; 2016 JAN = -106; FEB= -81; MAR= -131; APR= - 87: MAY= -91; JUN= -39; JUL=-134; AUG= -124; SEP = -123; OCT= -84  NOV=- 73 TOT= -3498

                              keno historic = -2291 ; 2015= -603; 2016= JAN=-32, FEB= +12 , MAR= -86, APR = -77. MAY= -48, JUN= -29, JUL=-71; AUG = -52; SEPT= -43; OCT = +56 NOV = -33 TOT= -3297