Welcome Guest
Log In | Register )
You last visited December 9, 2016, 4:13 pm
All times shown are
Eastern Time (GMT-5:00)

Record Powerball lottery winner ordered into substance abuse program

Topic closed. 30 replies. Last post 12 years ago by four4me.

Page 2 of 3
PrintE-mailLink
urbossmanpimpin's avatar - batman49
Dallas, Texas
United States
Member #7272
September 28, 2004
179 Posts
Offline
Posted: December 10, 2004, 2:22 am - IP Logged
Quote: Originally posted by Todd on December 9, 2004



And one more thing.  I don't like it one bit when someone has a problem with a rich person winning the lottery.  Anyone who enters has an equal chance of winning, and that's the way it should be.  It smacks of socialism to say that a lottery prize should be distributed to someone based on need.

And if that person wants to be a fool, then we can all criticize him and laugh at him, but it's his choice whether he wants to be a fool or not.

The lottery is entertainment, so if you're that poor that you NEED to win, then you shouldn't be playing.  Save your money.




well said Todd.
    Magnu$'s avatar - nw logo.jpg
    New Member

    United States
    Member #3416
    January 20, 2004
    9 Posts
    Offline
    Posted: December 10, 2004, 3:47 am - IP Logged

    I just want to thank you for that post. I was walking around at work today feeling quasi-depressed because it seems the further I get ahead the deeper the hole is dug. (got a raise got hir4ed from temp to full and the medical and dental and other various expenses ate the entire raise and then some *heh*) As I sit reflecting on the day with a cold beer, I again thank you for honing my focus. It's as we believed all along *grins* we are trapped in the Matrix and it does indeed Have Us!

    "In the codes of the warriors, there is a saying; 'Be strong, and do as you will. The swords of others will set you your limits.'" --p.10, Marauders of Gor

      Avatar
      Columbia City, Indiana
      United States
      Member #2978
      December 9, 2003
      381 Posts
      Offline
      Posted: December 10, 2004, 12:56 pm - IP Logged

      Maverick:

      Thanks for your comments; I'm always glad to hear from you, even when you don't agree with me, because you actually contribute something to the topics that interest you.

      I don't necessarily believe that the working man is a sucker. Quite the contrary; without unskilled labor, mass production might still be nothing more than an idea bouncing around in someone's head, but with no manpower to carry the concept to fruition.

      The point I was trying to make is that a man with an MBA can steal hundreds of millions of dollars under the guise of some corporate banner, and he's hailed as a brilliant tactician in the business world. However, if an unemployed high school dropout steals supper for his family from a grocery store, he's tossed into jail, awarded a criminal record which will haunt him for the rest of his life and, upon his release from prison, he's made to feel like an outcast by the very society that created his circumstances. It's true; Justice is blind. But she has a deep-seated revulsion for those without means. 

      Funny thing is, I have no problem with that. Those are the rules; that's The Way Things Are. If equal justice under the law weren't the myth that it is, the high school dropout would be congratulated for his courage and determination to provide for his children, and he'd be offered a job. That's The Way Things Should Be. 

      Fortunately, if we're aware of the double standard, we can safely and totally ignore The Way Things Should Be, since it doesn't matter, and just focus on The Way Things Are. In other words, we can't win the capitalism game unless we play by the same set of rules that govern the wealthy. There is no law to prohibit the working poor from playing by those rules. The problem is, they're not aware of them; they still believe everything they've been taught since childhood, and that's how they govern their own lives. We're taught to leave the stock and commodities markets to the experts, because it's too complex and risky. In reality, the opposite is true. This is no quirk of fate; it was engineered this way. Hence the adage, "Most people are too busy earning a living to make any money." People in general fear the unknown and what they believe they can't understand.

      I'm not criticizing these people; many working-class people are perfectly happy being working-class. I empathize with those who put their hearts and souls into a new business, only to see it fail, taking their life savings with it, because they did everything right, the way they were supposed to. Honore de Balzac wrote, "Behind every great fortune, there is a crime." There are always exceptions, of course, but from what I've read and learned of American history, this statement contains more than just a grain of truth.

      I'm a great believer in capitalism in its purest form, and I won't pretend that I'm above this type of base behavior, because I'm not. I've lied and said that I had the requisite experience in order to secure a lucrative contract to write or edit a technical manual. I lied the first time I was hired to write a speech for the mayor of a nearby city (if you think I'm going to mention his name, think again; he likes my work). I lied because that's what I had to do to get my foot in the door. I've lied while under oath in civil court, because that's what I had to do in order to counter the blatant lies of the defendant and his greasy attorney. That doesn't make it right; that's not The Way Things Should Be.

      People who are driven to succeed will go to lengths others would not dare, for fear of breaking the rules. For example, it's widely believed that Bill Gates stole Microsoft's Graphical User Interface (MS Windows) from Steve Jobs and Apple Computer. In truth, they both stole it from Xerox PARC at about the same time (technically, Apple had it first, but Jobs didn't think it was necessary to secure the rights to the technology; Xerox didn't think so, either). I certainly don't mean to compare myself to Bill Gates or Steve Jobs, but I do want to point out that they were willing to do things that Gary Kildall wouldn't even consider. Vision, drive and passion are what separates common criminals from extraordinary business leaders.

      Common sense and a modicum of intelligence certainly doesn't hurt anything. Common criminals are really more stupid and shortsighted than most people give them credit for. Consider this: if you rob a liquor store in Indiana, you'll do 20 to 50 years hard time in state prison. If you rob a bank, though, the mandatory ten years you'll spend in federal custody (Title 18, Section 2113, SS (B)) will be a breeze by comparison. Yet, people still rob liquor stores every day. Why? The only reason I can think of is that they must be standing closer to a liquor store than a bank when the notion first strikes.

      I'm getting off-track here. I'll sum up by bringing up a point I had hoped to read in a response to my initial commentary: Many people are perfectly content playing by the familiar written rules. That's fine; in fact, those people are critical to our way of life. If everyone were rich, separation of the classes would no longer exist, and America would quickly fall. But those of us who want to reach for the stars must realize that we can't attain those lofty heights without standing on the shoulders of a thrifty working class, who actually produce our goods and services for low wages. That's The Way Things Are; that's American commerce. True justice would dictate that these are the citizens who deserve to make millions, while the CEO collects $9.00 an hour for sitting in his office scheduling his next tee-off time or making paper clip necklaces.

      Since Jack Whittaker is the subject of this thread, I looked up a quote from Horace that I think sums up his current circumstances:

      "Fortune makes a fool of those she favors too much."

      Good Luck, Jack; I hope the next twenty-eight days will help you turn things around.

      Come, Pinky; we must prepare for tomorrow night...

      Jim

        Avatar
        Columbia City, Indiana
        United States
        Member #2978
        December 9, 2003
        381 Posts
        Offline
        Posted: December 10, 2004, 3:16 pm - IP Logged
        Quote: Originally posted by Todd on December 9, 2004

        I couldn't disagree stronger.  Your statement is a slap in the face of some very courageous men who framed one of the greatest documents ever.  It established a basic set of rules that formed the greatest country the world has ever known.

        Don't say that you weren't talking badly about the men themselves, or some other justification, because you went on to criticize those men for a number of different things.

        ____________________________________________________________

        Todd:

        Whether you agree or not is entirely incidental; I didn't say anything that isn't true. I certainly will state that I wasn't talking badly about these men and, quite frankly, I find it odd that, from the responses I've read so far, you're the only one who believes I was. I pointed out some of the things that these men did during their lives. I observed, as you did, that they did have their faults, but also that their shortcomings were entirely glossed over in all of our school textbooks, with the single purpose of presenting a favorable, almost magical image of who they were. I didn't force them to do those things, so how can you say I'm being critical of them? From what I gather from your scathing remarks, you were simply more comfortable not knowing the facts I brought forward, which only serves to prove my point; that's what you're supposed to do - Deny it, and it's not real.

        Since you've taken it upon yourself to bring my income into this discussion, you should be happy to learn that I cleared $87,000.00 last year, and $81,000.00 in 2003. This is another fact. If you'd like copies of my tax returns, I'll be happy to mail them to you. Normally, I wouldn't publicize this, but since you brought it up, I felt compelled to point out to you that I am very satisfied with my station in life.

        Concerning your comment about millionaires playing the lottery, I haven't a clue where you came up with the idea that I was criticizing Mr. Whittaker, but it wasn't from my post. I merely pointed out that we didn't read about his behavior before he won the PowerBall drawing because he wasn't famous back then; we have no way of knowing what his disposition was prior to winning his jackpot. 

        To conclude, I'll point out that I am a disabled Gulf War veteran, having served my country honorably and faithfully for eighteen years. To this day, I carry almost eight ounces of shrapnel in my chest, neck and left hip because it was driven so far into the bone it couldn't be removed. I accepted a lateral promotion to a different rate in aviation electronics for my last three years in the Navy, rather than be discharged. I was forced into retirement when my headaches became so severe that I was deemed unfit for active duty. The fact remains that The United States Constitution, IN MY OPINION, favors the wealthy. When I left the service, my total income was $307.00 per month, and my house payment was $293.51. I couldn't hold a job for more than ninety days. I had to study ten hours a day, six days a week, to earn a college degree, because I couldn't remember things the way other students could. I've seen both sides of capitalism, my friend, so I believe I'm qualified to make the judgments I've made, and to share what I've learned from my experiences with those members who don't mind reading my wordy comments.

        Like all members of this forum, I have a great deal of respect for you, Todd. You shoot from the hip, you never post unless you have something valuable to contribute to the topic at hand and you do your level best to make certain that every one of your members receives equal treatment. Your efforts in my quest to bring down the Hoosier Lottery have been invaluable, and I don't want to lose your support. But make no mistake -  if someone had said those things to my face, at least one of us would be making a trip to the hospital. I am now, and always have been fiercely loyal to my beloved country. My friends and family will tell you that I believe there is no more honorable way to die than on a battlefield in the service of our country. If I had a choice in the matter, that's how I'd prefer to go out, so when you question my patriotism and call me a socialist, I am made to feel that you don't appreciate my efforts. I understand that you had no way of knowing what I've been through, and there's a reason for that: I don't like to talk about it because it no longer matters; that's The Way Things Are. That's my reality. I can either accept it and move forward, or I can wallow in self-pity, dwelling on The Way Things Should Be until I die in my bed. I choose to move forward with my eyes open.

        I realize it's lengthy, but if you read my entire post in this thread, I think you'll be able to glean its intended message.

        Come, Pinky; we must prepare for tomorrow night...

        Jim

          Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
          Chief Bottle Washer
          New Jersey
          United States
          Member #1
          May 31, 2000
          23274 Posts
          Offline
          Posted: December 10, 2004, 3:41 pm - IP Logged

          Jim695:

          I don't think it speaks well of you when you say that if I said my statement to your face I would be making a trip to the hospital.  I am honestly shocked and saddened to read that - saddened because it really changes that mental picture I had formed of you.

          I have great respect for anyone that has served our country and put themselves in harm's way.  You are to be commended for your bravery and service.

          Unfortunately, some people who have served our country do come down on the wrong side of some issues.  For example, for the life of me, I cannot understand why a single veteran would support John Kerry for president.  Maybe they were getting paid or something, but that's a real sell-out.  Note, for perfect clarity, I did not acuse YOU of supporting Kerry, I am using that as an example.

          People who serve in the military, as well as the president as Commander-in-Chief, are doing so first and foremost to protect and serve the Constitution of the United States of America.  It is our country's most sacred document.  Again, I think you are way off-base in your criticism of it, and your military retirement pay does not further your argument about the Constitution being for the wealthy.  The constitution say anything about your retirement pay, or about income in general.

          I think you need to focus your resentment on the government agency responsible for your military income, not our framing document.  I think you'll find that Democrats have largely been responsible for lack of military funding.  People like John Kerry.

          There are so many other things that you have written which are just totally unfair and untrue, and totally not what I said.  Where did I question your patriotism?  Or label you a socialist?  If you can't separate a socialist position from socialism itself, that's not my fault.  Maybe you should try to see things from a different perspective and try to see the merit in what I'm saying.

          Maybe we should just drop this before I keep going, because I just see it going back-and-forth with no end.  The bottom line is that I think you were wrong in your criticism of one of the greatest documents ever written by some of the greatest people who ever lived, and you believe those average people had ulterior motives when they wrote that not-so-great document which favors the rich.  We have an impassible divide.

           

          Check the State Lottery Report Card
          What grade did your lottery earn?

           

          Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
          Help eliminate computerized drawings!

            kbcherokee's avatar - buffalo2
            Virginia
            United States
            Member #1712
            June 20, 2003
            1549 Posts
            Offline
            Posted: December 10, 2004, 4:24 pm - IP Logged


            I'M GETTING DIZZY FROM THIS ONE...

            May the warm winds of heaven blow softly upon your house. May  the Great Spirit bless all who enter there. May your mocassins make happy tracks in many snows. And may the rainbow always touch your shoulder.

              LosingJeff's avatar - flower
              Greenfield
              United States
              Member #3587
              February 2, 2004
              557 Posts
              Offline
              Posted: December 10, 2004, 9:30 pm - IP Logged

              This is, without a doubt, the most interesting topic of conversation I have seen. These are the things that make Lottery Post interesting and unique.

                Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
                Chief Bottle Washer
                New Jersey
                United States
                Member #1
                May 31, 2000
                23274 Posts
                Offline
                Posted: December 10, 2004, 9:48 pm - IP Logged

                LosingJeff:

                I laugh every time I see that avatar of yours!

                 

                Check the State Lottery Report Card
                What grade did your lottery earn?

                 

                Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
                Help eliminate computerized drawings!

                  LOTTOMIKE's avatar - cash money.jpg
                  Tennessee
                  United States
                  Member #7853
                  October 15, 2004
                  11338 Posts
                  Offline
                  Posted: December 10, 2004, 11:57 pm - IP Logged

                  lol,yeah that avator is quite unique jeff.yeah those were lengthy discussions i just read.these political discussions have a way of becoming heated.my older brother and his best friend of years actually came to blows one night over a discussion of the vietnam war and didn't speak for a while but finally got it straightened out.it seems like there are so many choices out there and so many opinions that its really easy to get into it with someone if they don't like the same political party,president,sports team,type of music,etc. i stayed firmly out of the discussion on here when the presidential elevtion was discussed because i knew it was 50/50 and that half the people liked kerry and half liked bush and i felt like if i disclosed who i really liked i ran the risk of alienating people so i kept quiet.i hope everyone has a merry christmas........

                    four4me's avatar - gate1
                    MD
                    United States
                    Member #1701
                    June 18, 2003
                    8363 Posts
                    Offline
                    Posted: December 11, 2004, 12:24 am - IP Logged

                    Yea and old Jack had his problems before he won and since he won you'd figure that the stuff he's been through would be a wake up call. For most it might but some guys just don't know when to quit. If he is truly addicted to alcohol, women and gambling he's not alone. Some guys just refuse to recognize the problem and when you have all that money to boot. And at his age. He probably figures what the heck. I'm gonna do whatever I want to it's my life. The slap on the wrist the judge gave him might fuel his fire to do something even more outlandish. Or he might seek some form of treatment. But I doubt it. Some guys have to be in the gutter before they will admit any faults. Or correct them. 

                      LOTTOMIKE's avatar - cash money.jpg
                      Tennessee
                      United States
                      Member #7853
                      October 15, 2004
                      11338 Posts
                      Offline
                      Posted: December 11, 2004, 2:56 am - IP Logged

                      i'm gonna make a prediction....jack whitaker will be dead or broke by the end of 2005.....

                        Avatar
                        Columbia City, Indiana
                        United States
                        Member #2978
                        December 9, 2003
                        381 Posts
                        Offline
                        Posted: December 11, 2004, 3:43 am - IP Logged

                        Todd:

                        I was very careful to word my comments so they would not be construed as a threat; I should have written that if someone else had said those things while within my reach, one of us would be going to the hospital. This comment wasn't meant to be leveled directly at you, and I'm truly sorry that I made you feel that it was. I only intended to illustrate how strongly I feel about the matter. If you think less of me for speaking my mind candidly, then so be it. One major fault of my own is that sometimes I get so caught up in selecting just the right words that my point, while clear in my own mind, becomes mired in my own vocabulary and passion for the subject. I'll work on that and, again, I offer you my sincere apologies. 

                        I don't resent or regret anything that's happened in my life; it's been a wild ride so far. I'm glad those things happened to me. We have to take the bad with the good, and that's the route I had to take to get to where I am today. If I hadn't experienced those dvents, I wouldn't be the person I am now, and I don't think I'm deserving of any special treatment because of those experiences, nor do I believe that America owes me anything. At the time of my injury, I was on a landmine sweep on a Kuwaiti beach when the Marine next to me stepped on one. That doesn't make me a hero or deserving of any accolades. I did my job; I followed orders and utilized my training to fulfill my function within the military machine, as did millions of others who came before me, and those who served with me.  

                        We are both on the same page when you state that the Constitution is one of the greatest documents ever written, and I can see now that I failed to make that clear in my previous posts but, again, you're the only one who took it that way. I'll re-state that I'm not criticizing the Constitution, the American way of life or even capitalism. I will defend any of these to the death, regardless of who they benefit. I believe in the Constitution; I took an oath to defend it. 

                        I'd like to reiterate my initial point as clearly as I possibly can: The Constitution guarantees American citizens equal justice under the law "without regard to race, creed or color..." In point of fact, that justice is not equal. The Fifth Amendment reads, in part, "No person shall be ... deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law ...," but simultaneously fails to clearly define that "due process." This is no accident; our founding fathers decided to leave that definition up to the quasi-independent state governments.

                        The concept of a person being "innocent until proven guilty" is proven false in actual practice since, if someone is merely suspected of committing a crime, his liberty is immediately forfeit, pending further investigation or evidence. On a similar note, I've been present at many live criminal trials throughout my life, and have yet to see a jury of destitute people deciding the fate of someone suffering equal hardships, so the concept of being tried by one's peers goes out the window as well. I accept this double standard, first because I am powerless to change it, and secondly because it is integral to American jurisprudence. Personally, I'd like to see a maple tree with blue leaves. I'll never see one, though, because maple leaves are green; that's just The Way Things Are. 

                        I am trying to emphasize that we should all be aware of the very real differences in what is practiced, as opposed to that which is written, because the two rarely coincide. What is written in that document is The Way Things Should Be, but people in general tend to confuse that with what is actually practiced, which is The Way Things Are. That's all I was trying to say.

                        The United States of America is the greatest and most powerful country in the world; the U. S. Constitution is, without question, one of the greatest documents ever constructed, and the men who crafted it certainly don't need to defend their own courage to the likes of me. But they were human, and they were men of property, every one, and to delude ourselves by buying into the notion that they were somehow above possessing basic human traits such as greed and debauchery does not serve the interests of those of us who recognize those traits within the politicians of the present day.  

                        It's nice, it's comforting to believe that George Washington, James Madison, Ben Franklin, John Langdon and the 35 others who drafted and signed the U. S. Constitution were of absolutely sterling character, as is universally taught. However, they were politicians and property owners. In fact, of the 39 men who signed the Constitution, 13 were Masons. This is not my opinion; this is a fact. Of the four men mentioned above, Benjamin Franklin was the only one who never owned slaves. Therefore, it is my considered opinion that the basic premise on which the Constitution is founded, that of "equal justice for all men, under the law, without regard to race, creed or color," might look good on paper, but had no more basis in fact, or in practice, during 1787 than it does now. 

                        In order to achieve success today in the nation they founded 217 years ago, we need to first realize, and then accept the fact that our society, and the laws which govern it, must be interpreted and manipulated to  serve our own individual interests. Again, history bears this out. Generally speaking, people who have achieved success were able to do so because they were willing to simply ignore or break the rules and laws that didn't fit their plans. The Hoosier Lottery is an admittedly extreme example. They were able to get away with their schemes for so many years because they completely ignored the very laws by which they're governed. We're not forced to accept this, however, because it's something we can change. Bill Gates and Steven Jobs stole their GUI's from Xerox PARC. The United States and Russia stole their jet, rocket and nuclear technologies from Germany. These, of course,were the spoils of war, but that doesn't change the truth. German history books record nothing of significance during the years 1939 through 1945. Does this mean that the atrocities of World War II never took place?   

                        We must accept the fact that conformity, more often than not, will be detrimental, by design, to our quest for success. We can either follow the written rules without question, or we can emulate people who have reached the goals we've set for ourselves; we must do as they do, not as they say, if we want to become wealthy. I've admitted in a previous post that I have accepted and actively practice this, to an extent (there are certain lines I refuse to cross), so I am in no position to criticize anyone who has done likewise.

                        We may not like it; we may not agree with it, but we must acknowledge and accept it if we want to succeed, because that's The Way Things Are
                         

                        Come, Pinky; we must prepare for tomorrow night...

                        Jim

                          Maverick's avatar - yinyang
                          USA
                          United States
                          Member #8242
                          October 29, 2004
                          1133 Posts
                          Offline
                          Posted: December 11, 2004, 5:32 am - IP Logged
                          Quote: Originally posted by jim695 on December 10, 2004


                          The only reason I can think of is that they must be standing closer to a liquor store than a bank when the notion first strikes.



                          lol good one
                            Maverick's avatar - yinyang
                            USA
                            United States
                            Member #8242
                            October 29, 2004
                            1133 Posts
                            Offline
                            Posted: December 11, 2004, 5:40 am - IP Logged
                            Quote: Originally posted by LOTTOMIKE on December 11, 2004


                            i'm gonna make a prediction....jack whitaker will be dead or broke by the end of 2005.....


                            If he does, I hope he ends up dead, but "not broke" on my lawn har dee har har
                              whodeani's avatar - lightening

                              United States
                              Member #2484
                              October 9, 2003
                              212 Posts
                              Offline
                              Posted: December 11, 2004, 1:17 pm - IP Logged
                              Quote: Originally posted by LOTTOMIKE on December 11, 2004


                              i'm gonna make a prediction....jack whitaker will be dead or broke by the end of 2005.....


                              I would possibly say dead but not broke. Even as foolish and careless as Jack is, it would still be very hard to blow somewhere around $100,000,000.00 in one year.