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Landmark bill would ban computerized lottery drawings in Delaware

Topic closed. 53 replies. Last post 12 years ago by konane.

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four4me's avatar - gate1
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Posted: January 20, 2005, 7:24 pm - IP Logged
Quote: Originally posted by CASH Only on January 20, 2005


I would approve of a ban on computerized draws...although it would endanger keno.




This is what you wrote: although it would endanger keno.

This article Todd posted has nothing to do with keno games in any state it's about pick 3/4 and other games that have gone computerized. I am only commenting about your statement because i don't know where you get the idea that it involves keno.

 

 

Big John says. You don't hit the number. The number hits you!!!!

               I'm not Big John, I'm Four4me, Big John's a friend.
    Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
    Chief Bottle Washer
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    Posted: January 20, 2005, 9:47 pm - IP Logged
    Quote: Originally posted by four4me on January 20, 2005



    Thanks Konane that link was what I was looking for.

    Sorry for the misunderstanding Todd. When I saw the Delaware logo with that post I assumed it was from their site. Not realizing that, I wondered were you found the article. So I surfed Delaware site. I realized rather quickly that it wasn't something they would post. I didn't have time to do and Internet search for the article. I had several errands to run. Konane has posted what I was asking for. If I were to forward it I would like to send the original Document along with the post. Usually when I post something I find from off site I post the source of the item that way people can find and read the article if they wish. Thanks for posting the item I'm glad that some lawmakers are now involved in our effort to get things back to the way they were.

    Cash Only this has nothing to do with keno!




    I always tag each article with the logo of the state lottery so that people can easily identify the article content.  I wanted to be sure you saw that the Delaware Lottery Driector is firmly against the measure.  Can you believe the audacity of a Lottery Director who says that they get tons of complaint letters from the players, but they're still going to do the computerized drawings anyway??  Just goes to show what his priorities are.

     

    Check the State Lottery Report Card
    What grade did your lottery earn?

     

    Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
    Help eliminate computerized drawings!

      Maverick's avatar - yinyang
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      Posted: January 20, 2005, 11:18 pm - IP Logged
      Quote: Originally posted by Todd on January 20, 2005


      Can you believe the audacity of a Lottery Director who says that they get tons of complaint letters from the players, but they're still going to do the computerized drawings anyway??  Just goes to show what his priorities are.


      Right on Chief! They advertise that it's a game, but hide behind the business.
        DoctorEw220's avatar - alien helmet.jpg
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        Posted: January 21, 2005, 12:28 am - IP Logged

        i sent a nice, long e-mail to the PA lottery about how they can easily cut costs by video-taping the mid-day drawings and uploading them to the website instead of televising them. that way, they need not pay money to TV stations to broadcast them, but they still have live, authentic, vidoe-taped drawings, but the players can view the draw on the website instead of the TV. the sales would go up, and the lottery still wouldn't pay as much as they would for televising the drawings.

        I've redone my website.  Go to www.dr-ew.com.  I kept a lot of the old stuff, and I've added some new stuff.  Look for more new stuff in the coming weeks.

          Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
          Chief Bottle Washer
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          Posted: January 21, 2005, 10:50 am - IP Logged
          Quote: Originally posted by DoctorEw220 on January 21, 2005


          i sent a nice, long e-mail to the PA lottery about how they can easily cut costs by video-taping the mid-day drawings and uploading them to the website instead of televising them. that way, they need not pay money to TV stations to broadcast them, but they still have live, authentic, vidoe-taped drawings, but the players can view the draw on the website instead of the TV. the sales would go up, and the lottery still wouldn't pay as much as they would for televising the drawings.


          That is an excellent idea!

           

          Check the State Lottery Report Card
          What grade did your lottery earn?

           

          Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
          Help eliminate computerized drawings!

            four4me's avatar - gate1
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            Posted: January 21, 2005, 10:59 am - IP Logged

            Maryland has that but it only archives about a weeks worth of vedio information. I know a lot of people who use the internet. But i know a lot more that don't or woln't get near a PC even if you gave them one for free. A lot of people i know who use a pc for work say that when they get home the last thing they want to do is get on a pc and surf the net.

            However i do agree that DrEW has agood idea.

            Big John says. You don't hit the number. The number hits you!!!!

                           I'm not Big John, I'm Four4me, Big John's a friend.
              Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
              Chief Bottle Washer
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              Posted: January 21, 2005, 11:11 am - IP Logged
              Quote: Originally posted by four4me on January 21, 2005



              Maryland has that but it only archives about a weeks worth of vedio information. I know a lot of people who use the internet. But i know a lot more that don't or woln't get near a PC even if you gave them one for free. A lot of people i know who use a pc for work say that when they get home the last thing they want to do is get on a pc and surf the net.

              However i do agree that DrEW has agood idea.




              I know a lot of people don't use a PC, but the great thing is that everyone has free access to the Internet (at their public library), so this is the ideal way to fulfill the obligation of giving the public full access to the drawings, while not significantly increasing the budget.  People don't need to be spoon-fed the info, but it does have to be relatively easy to get, and this idea satisfies both priciples.

               

              Check the State Lottery Report Card
              What grade did your lottery earn?

               

              Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
              Help eliminate computerized drawings!

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                Columbia City, Indiana
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                Posted: January 21, 2005, 12:27 pm - IP Logged

                The idea is a sound one, provided the integrity of lottery personnel can be assured. If the Hoosier Lottery were to adopt such a policy, the next scandal to hit the papers would be one in which they'd tape a week's worth or even a month's worth of drawings in one day, and then air them at the appropriate times. This would enable them to predetermine the winning numbers on a daily basis, so we're right back where we started. I think the idea could be enhanced to include a videotape of a live drawing for later review on the web. 

                In my opinion, live drawings are necessary in order to preserve the integrity of the games. If I were to open a machine shop, I would need a lathe, a CNC milling machine and other tools and equipment essential to running that business. I couldn't just pitch my lathe or CNC machine because I suddenly decided they were too expensive to operate. If I did, I wouldn't be in business very long because I've removed an element which allows me to earn money. The lotteries must provide a live drawing, even if no one watches, because it's essential to the integrity of the games; it's a basic cost of doing business in that industry which cannot be circumvented without drawing suspicion. 

                Here is an anecdote which illustrates my point (this is a true story):

                A year or so ago, I wanted to buy the Band of Brothers DVD set. I drove to Wal-Mart every other day for three weeks, but each time I arrived I was told the item I wanted to buy would be on Tuesday's (or Thursday's) truck. Finally, I managed to corner the department manager. I explained that I had been there several times in the past few weeks, but that the promised merchandise had never arrived. Her reply? "Oh, we can't keep the Band of Brothers on the shelves, so we're not going to order it anymore." On my honor; her exact words. I went to Best Buy the following day and bought my DVD set, but I did pay three dollars more than I would have at Wal-Mart.

                My point is that, no matter what business you're in, there are certain things which are integral to your business, things without which you could no longer operate. In the example just cited, Wal-Mart must have stock to sell; once the shelves are empty, they're out of business. The same is true of the fictional machine shop; it can't run without the cutting machines which make it a machine shop.

                Obviously, lotteries can operate without providing live broadcasts, but they do so at their own risk and expense. When I discovered Indiana's RNG, my friends and I stopped playing, and there are probably others who did so as well. We must insist the lotteries accept the expense of live broadcasts as they accept the inevitability of their utility bills. If they want to save money, let them turn down their heat and lights. The Hoosier Lottery has been operating in the dark for several years anyway, so they should be used to it by now.

                Come, Pinky; we must prepare for tomorrow night...

                Jim


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                  Posted: January 21, 2005, 3:44 pm - IP Logged

                  Todd:

                  I access Lottery Post from the liberry.

                    Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
                    Chief Bottle Washer
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                    Posted: January 21, 2005, 3:58 pm - IP Logged

                    Do you also access Lottery Post from the library?

                     

                    Check the State Lottery Report Card
                    What grade did your lottery earn?

                     

                    Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
                    Help eliminate computerized drawings!

                      Rick G's avatar - avatar 1766.jpg
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                      Posted: January 21, 2005, 4:16 pm - IP Logged

                      Personally I turn on the channel broadcasting the lottery game at the time of the drawing and then rerturn to the programming I was originally watching before the drawing.

                      To say that they are only getting a 7% share of the Nielson ratings is referring to the whole half hour of programming in that time slot.  Put it on a better channel, change draw times, do anything it takes to increase revenues, but the last resort is to go to closeted computerized drawings.  I wouldn't play that kind of game.

                      IN has a whole lot to learn about running a lottery.  I wouldn't play it if the tickets were free.

                      Posted 4/6:  IL Pick 3 midday and evening until they hit:  555, 347 (str8).


                        DoctorEw220's avatar - alien helmet.jpg
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                        Posted: January 21, 2005, 6:12 pm - IP Logged
                        Quote: Originally posted by CASH Only on January 21, 2005

                        Todd:

                        I access Lottery Post from the liberry.








                        do you get the blues from blueberries?

                        I've redone my website.  Go to www.dr-ew.com.  I kept a lot of the old stuff, and I've added some new stuff.  Look for more new stuff in the coming weeks.

                          DoctorEw220's avatar - alien helmet.jpg
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                          Posted: January 22, 2005, 6:39 pm - IP Logged

                          still no response from PA, and i sent it a few days ago.

                          I've redone my website.  Go to www.dr-ew.com.  I kept a lot of the old stuff, and I've added some new stuff.  Look for more new stuff in the coming weeks.

                            Maverick's avatar - yinyang
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                            Posted: January 22, 2005, 7:47 pm - IP Logged

                            Jim695 said: The lotteries must provide a live drawing, even if no one watches, because it's essential to the integrity of the games; it's a basic cost of doing business in that industry which cannot be circumvented without drawing suspicion. 

                            That is the best wording I ever encountered since I realized lotteries could be altered. I very much like your last paragraph also

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                              Philly
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                              Posted: February 10, 2005, 3:03 pm - IP Logged

                              Nothing personal, but you anti-electronic drawing guys and gals are self-deceived. Random number generators do not equal corruption or any intent to pay fewer prizes. Make sure you get your facts straight before you jump on the emotional bandwagon of fear. It's a pretty easy jump; easier than doing a little research and using common sense.

                              First fact: Lotteries across the country, including Delaware, Indiana, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, etc., are paying out a higher percentage of sales in these recent years of adding randomizers than they were when using ping pong balls. Almost all North American Lotteries are Public Agencies and you can access their audited financial statements by request and sometimes on the Web. If you are going to trust one thing you should trust financial reports of state agencies. These reports are usually prepared by outside auditors.

                              Second fact: Lotteries and othe gaming enterprises, such as casinos and slots parlors, know that paying out MORE prizes is the basis for all growth in gamnbling receipts. If you conspiracy theorists really think lotteries are trying to NOT pay you prizes, you are dead wrong. Massachussetts is the most successful Lottery in North America and they---not coincidently---have the highest payout percentages of all, by design Every lottery director wishes they had the payout latitude that MA has. Lotteries WANT to increaase payouts and are held ticght to laws written for them. Does this sound like a basis for trying to start a drawing method that prdvents players form winning?

                              Third fact: Random numbers generators have been used for years and years for keno and slot machines. They allow the design of games that allow for presicse control of payout percentages. Do you guys really think Lottery games are designed to pay on demand of the Lottery--with ping pong balls or not? Math determines payout percentages and winning occurrence frequencies in the long run. If you are going to scream corruption and fraud (don't be fooled, that is what you guys are assuming) then rightfully accuse lotteries of doing the math correctly so that an exact number of winners is expected and an exact payout percentage is acheived. Lotteries and casinos could care less when the winners are granted in the short run. Its the long-run that counts.

                              Fourth fact: The only drawing security breaches and scams ever executed in U.S. Lottery history involve ping pong ball drawings (PA's 666 drawing, anybody?). All of the mis-draws have also been ping-pong ball drawings except for one in Canada a few years ago. No corruption involved there. Changing the way a ball bounces or its weight is a lot easier than pulling chips out of sealed computer cases in high-security facilites. All of these new electronic drawings are air-tight and off-line, meaning they cannot be hacked. Go see for yourself. I have.

                              Fifth fact: We are gambling when we play lottery games. Most of the lotteries you guys are concerned about as setting up systems to deny you from winning are in fact doing that! But its not personal, you see. Most players have to lose so the lottery or casino can pay a few! As the old saying goes, they don't build casinos by losing money. As mentioned in the third fact, its by design.

                              Sixth fact: Lottery employees and  lottery directors are just business managers, accountants, and floor sweepers just like the rest of us. They are not sitting in hidden offices, denying public and media access, and scheming to steal from a select few. If you are so coonvinced otherwise, pick up the phone and find out where the office is and see for yourself. Most are state agencies that cannot deny you access.

                              Sdventh fact: If you write accusatory emails and threaten to quit playing and call the FBI, the CIA, and your local state rep, you are not going to get a response. If they do respond, they'll tell you to go right ahead! You've got that right and you've not really asked a legitimate question as a rational citizen with a rightful stake in you stae government's enterprise. Email, write, call, ask questions and you will be amazed at how humanized your lottery becomes. If you come off as some wacko who wears a tinfoil helmet to bed to block the Lottery from monitoring your dreams, you will be duely ignored. If you have a legitimate question, ask it. Ever tried contacting the IRS to accuse them of conspiring to ruin you financial future?

                              Eighth fact: Most of you won't care about these facts. You have decided that someone is up to no good, and nothing will change your thought direction. It is comfortable for you and easier than learning the long math for calculating odds through running factorial/permutation/combinmation/poisson distributions. The math is hard. I know, I got 'C's in that level of math and now rely on Microsoft Excel to do the work for me.

                              So how do I know these facts? You guessed it. I've been a pain in the butt with my state lottery and they have had me in on several occasions to view drawings and see their procedures. They are not staffed by scheming crooks. Most employees have been in these jobs for years. Don't you think they would have been found out by now? C;mon! Get real!

                              The fact is that Lottery's using ping pong balls that are produced by the same manufacturer and may be used more than once per set are showing more statistical patterns in randomness than those states with RNGs. For example, if the number '04' is 0.00076 grams heavier than the number '05' there is a greater statistical probabilty that the number '05 will be drawn The key is not to play against a drawing method but to calculate reciprocal probabilities for a set of numbers. Even so, it's still luck guys.

                              Two last tips

                              Tip one: If you are not having fun, don't play. It's gambling and these games are designed in the favor of the house--in a BIG, BIG way. If you want to see ping pong balls, go play bingo on the boardwalk or firehall. I'm sticking to my math and avoiding the easy trap of getting caught up in emotion, superstition, or blaming something other than math for my losses. 

                              Tip two: Best current lottery bets are Delaware's Multi-win Lotto and Pensylvania's Match 6. Delaware reports paying out over 50% of sales in prizes BELOW the $50,000 top prize over the first 6 drawings. Multi-win design will pay an annualized payout percentage of about 61% including a half-dozen $50,000 plus prizes. Percentages provided per recent email response from marketing staff. Remember, when you play in a small state you are playing in a pool with a small population with a game with a smaller matrix (6 of 35 for Multi-win).

                              Maybe I should have just kept to myself.

                              BB