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Landmark bill would ban computerized lottery drawings in Delaware

Topic closed. 53 replies. Last post 12 years ago by konane.

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Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
Chief Bottle Washer
New Jersey
United States
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May 31, 2000
23259 Posts
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Posted: February 11, 2005, 6:38 pm - IP Logged

Ah, the sounds of silence!

 

Check the State Lottery Report Card
What grade did your lottery earn?

 

Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
Help eliminate computerized drawings!

    lottobrain's avatar - box
    Smyrna, DE
    United States
    Member #10074
    January 1, 2005
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    Posted: February 11, 2005, 11:29 pm - IP Logged

    I would like to comment on Delaware's computer drawings from past experience visiting the internal drawing site.  I have done so on several ocassions, though it has been about two years now since my last visit.  I did not like the inconsistency of "drawing techniques" displayed by the various auditors at each visit, though perhaps since we are talking about electronic signals and not ping pong balls, it sholdn't make any difference. But being preferential to the consistency of the daily ping pong method on TV, this bothered me a little. As a player, I look for bias whereever I think I can find it. When they first started these drawings by machine, they supposedly used three different programs. One was an RNG, and the other two were "algorithm'.  Now I'm not a computer programer, but my understanding of this term is a set of instructions to be followed.  When I visited there my last time, I was told that an RNG was not used anymore, only 3 algorithm programs.  This bothered me at first. But as I thought about it, I figured if the selection method was left to a set of instructions, perhaps some kind of bias could be detected there that one could take advantage of.  However, maybe I'm just hard headed to change my ways, or I haven't yet locked in since my pick 3 hitting has fallen off with the computer drawings.  As far as the 3 digit goes, one thing that seems to be a pattern is that a lot of numbers that hit twice, hit a third time, and this can happen 3 out of 4 weeks.  Another thing I noticed in this regard .....triples that hit during the last few years, and there may be as many as 5, many of them hit again up to 3 times each. Perhaps in someway this ties into the 3 different programs. Of course they also have two different machines to randomly select from each draw along with a random selection of the program to be used, giving 6 different possible combinations.  But like most players, I still like to see the drawings out in the open, and not conducted behind closed doors. I think DE lottery is hurting for funds since PA joined Powerball and NJ and MD joined Mega Millions. A lot of out of state revenue has been lost. The unclaimed $5 million dollar lotto jackpot from last year that they retained helped to replace the lost revenue.

      LosingJeff's avatar - flower
      Greenfield
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      Posted: February 12, 2005, 8:44 am - IP Logged

      Go check Indiana midday 4 for this past week. 0072 hit within 4 days of each other. Nothing out of the ordinary for Indiana.

        four4me's avatar - gate1
        MD
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        June 18, 2003
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        Posted: February 12, 2005, 11:20 am - IP Logged
        Indiana RNG's




        2/7/20059-3-59-4-20-1-7-50-0-7-2    
        2/8/20055-3-42-2-87-1-6-87-2-1-9    
        2/9/20054-9-20-1-61-6-9-66-2-8-0    
        2/10/20053-1-09-4-39-8-7-40-0-7-2    
        2/11/20057-0-32-9-93-6-9-52-1-0-9    







        Maryland ball machines


        1/6/05  0606 evening


        2/7/05  0606 midday


        Not exactly back to back drawings. This happens in ball drawings also.


        I didn't have time to check all states but Indiana and Maryland weren't the only states to have repeat numbers draw this month. Maryland also had the combo of 059 drawn 4 times.








        And 1748 drawn twice


        1748 & 1847




        What's important is RNG's can be controlled with software designed to manipulate the game. code can be transmitted through the air. The PC machines don't need to have ports that can be accessed. Soon the one arm bandits will probably have the same thing when the house wants to change the odds say tighten the machines for the weekend players. All they would need to do is change the numerical data at a central PC. (instead of going from machine to machine and opening them up and changing the payout percent.) No matter what kind of game it is there are many ways of corrupting the game. Players/gamblers might be aware of this but will still continue to play despite the house rules/odds. They are in the game for a win regardless of the cost to play. People will always continue to play because for whatever reason they think that it just might be them that gets the golden egg.

        Big John says. You don't hit the number. The number hits you!!!!

                       I'm not Big John, I'm Four4me, Big John's a friend.
          Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
          Chief Bottle Washer
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          Posted: February 12, 2005, 12:19 pm - IP Logged

          Four4me,

          That's a great example.  Did you see on the same dates the second Pick 3 drawings had 942 and 943?  Looks like Indiana used the same algorithm for both drawings, and since they were probably held at the same time of the day, the seed number may have the same or similar.  A great example of one of the many reasons why computers are no good for lottery drawings.

          Someone may say, "hey, that's great, I'll be able to predict the numbers easier!"  But do they really think the lottery would let that happen?  If anything the lotteries can make sure the patterns don't reoccur.  After seeing 0072 come up twice, it would be easy to "adjust" the algorithm so that never happens again, and the player would spend a lifetime trying to catch the repetition again.

          That game of cat and mouse would not be possible with ball machines, because the lottery cannot "command" certain balls to come out.

           

          Check the State Lottery Report Card
          What grade did your lottery earn?

           

          Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
          Help eliminate computerized drawings!

            LosingJeff's avatar - flower
            Greenfield
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            Posted: February 12, 2005, 7:15 pm - IP Logged

            You are right Todd!  I agree that the same algorithm was used. Again, Jim's scrolls show a myriad of patterns that can prove the Hoosier Lottery drawings are not random!  I guess they figured no one would ever catch it; they were wrong! It appears now that everything has backfired, as the public is now understanding the truth of this matter.

              DoctorEw220's avatar - alien helmet.jpg
              Yinzer Country, PA
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              Posted: February 14, 2005, 2:49 am - IP Logged

              here's the problem with RNGs. not only can they be fixed, but it takes longer between drawing cut-off and the release of the winning numbers. that only adds scrutiny to the drawings. why does it take 20-30 minutes to draw numbers randomly, but a matter of seconds for lotteries to draw numbers with a ball machine (depending on how many games are being drawn on that day. some lotteries draw only one, while others will draw 4 or 5 on a give draw show.). the other problem with lotteries (both ball machind and RNG, but this is more common with lotteries that use RNGs) is that they do not always give a specific time as to when the drawings take place. for example, new york holds their mid-day drawings between 12:25 and 12:30, and their evening drawings for numbers and win 4 between 7:35 and 7:55. indiana's mid-day and evening drawings are "conducted as soon as possible, but not more than 10 minutes after the ticket sales cutoff time. ohio (they do use ball machines for their mid-day drawings. they just don't televise them anymore.) has set cutoff times for their drawings at 12:29 and 7:29, during the week, and 7:50 on saturdays for the super lotto plus and kicker drawings. the thing is that they need to have set times for their drawings.

              I've redone my website.  Go to www.dr-ew.com.  I kept a lot of the old stuff, and I've added some new stuff.  Look for more new stuff in the coming weeks.


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                Posted: February 15, 2005, 3:38 pm - IP Logged

                Looks like some progress is being made.

                  konane's avatar - wallace
                  Atlanta, GA
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                  March 13, 2003
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                  Posted: February 15, 2005, 3:42 pm - IP Logged
                  Quote: Originally posted by DoctorEw220 on February 14, 2005


                  here's the problem with RNGs. not only can they be fixed, but it takes longer between drawing cut-off and the release of the winning numbers. that only adds scrutiny to the drawings. why does it take 20-30 minutes to draw numbers randomly, but a matter of seconds for lotteries to draw numbers with a ball machine (depending on how many games are being drawn on that day. some lotteries draw only one, while others will draw 4 or 5 on a give draw show.). the other problem with lotteries (both ball machind and RNG, but this is more common with lotteries that use RNGs) is that they do not always give a specific time as to when the drawings take place. for example, new york holds their mid-day drawings between 12:25 and 12:30, and their evening drawings for numbers and win 4 between 7:35 and 7:55. indiana's mid-day and evening drawings are "conducted as soon as possible, but not more than 10 minutes after the ticket sales cutoff time. ohio (they do use ball machines for their mid-day drawings. they just don't televise them anymore.) has set cutoff times for their drawings at 12:29 and 7:29, during the week, and 7:50 on saturdays for the super lotto plus and kicker drawings. the thing is that they need to have set times for their drawings.


                           
                                     

                  Good luck to everyone!