Welcome Guest
Log In | Register )
You last visited January 21, 2017, 12:28 pm
All times shown are
Eastern Time (GMT-5:00)

Newspaper takes a hard look at the N.J. Lottery

Topic closed. 36 replies. Last post 11 years ago by antiwarlover.

Page 2 of 3
PrintE-mailLink
Avatar
New Member
Woodbine, NJ
United States
Member #27671
December 4, 2005
2 Posts
Offline
Posted: December 4, 2005, 10:23 pm - IP Logged

This is in response to the New Jersey Lottery article posted in The Star-Ledger. I don't think the article properly represented the "poor buyers" of the Lottery. I live on Social Security and spend $16.00 per month on the Mega Millions game. I have been playing the game since it came to New Jersey. The game brings excitement to me two times a week as I dream about what I would spend the jackpot on. Even when I don't win it's at least a source of entertainment, and most of the time a bigger jakpot to dream about. I can't get it out of my head that you can win hundreds of millions of dollars of one buck. I would assume that poor people make up the largest buyer because they need the money the most. If I had the choice of buying a Star-Ledger with my last dollar or a lottery ticket, I would say I stand too gain significantly more from the lottery ticket. I guess some people just don't understand "it pays to dream"


    sirbrad's avatar - Lottery-062.jpg
    PA
    United States
    Member #22983
    October 6, 2005
    2226 Posts
    Offline
    Posted: December 5, 2005, 1:30 am - IP Logged

    $30 a day?! If I had that kind of money to spend every day on the lottery I would not need it! I would find much more productive ways to put that money to good use. I only spend what I do now because the money I do spend is not enough to amout to much of anything else, even if saved for years. Poor people spend more, because they are sick of just getting by. The lottery is indeed a tax, a pyschological one with strong autosuggestion advertising. They only want you to think it is a choice...

      Avatar

      United States
      Member #27625
      December 4, 2005
      88 Posts
      Offline
      Posted: December 5, 2005, 5:44 am - IP Logged

      I repeat: The Lottery is not a Tax.

      A Tax is mandatory, required, imposed by the governing authorites to raise revenue, failure to pay means a fine/jail.

      The Lottery is a voluntary game, which suppliments the state government's tax revenue.

      Just because the Lottery money goes into Satate coffers does not transform the game into a TAX. Taxes are imposed. It ain't a Tax!

      Finally, what tax PAYS the taxpayers $ 100,000,000.00 prize for paying the tax?

      or $1,000,000.00 or $1,000.00 Get the distincttion? A voluntary tax is an inncorrect use of the words voluntary and tax- they cancel each other out.

        sirbrad's avatar - Lottery-062.jpg
        PA
        United States
        Member #22983
        October 6, 2005
        2226 Posts
        Offline
        Posted: December 5, 2005, 6:14 am - IP Logged

        I am sure most will consider it a tax, especially when they never win. There is NO payback for the majority...losers. Of course if you are in the lucky minority, then the terms change. Maybe you could call it your daily donations. As I said, a psychological self-imposed tax, with a lot of help from advertisements...

          Avatar

          United States
          Member #27625
          December 4, 2005
          88 Posts
          Offline
          Posted: December 5, 2005, 6:31 am - IP Logged

          If one spreads one's play amongst the various games-I play NJ Cash 5 daily in addition to "The Big Ones" the chances of winning some money back increase substantially. No big fortune mind you, but a enough cash back to offset the yearly play.  Study the odds, play within reason consistently for the best results, being in the game enough to stand a shot at one the the BIG HITS.  Most folks I speak wiyth are erratic emotionally driven players...fine, but methofdical steady play with the better odds games being at the forfront has been rewarding for this player.

            Avatar
            Urbandale, IA
            United States
            Member #8624
            November 11, 2004
            115 Posts
            Offline
            Posted: December 5, 2005, 11:06 am - IP Logged

            Beware of anyone who claims that the lottery is a "regressive tax".  They really don't know what those words mean - they just sound bad. 

            1.  The lottery is not a tax.  Stop buying lottery tickets and stop paying your taxes and see what happens.

            2.  At $1 for everyone, the price of a lottery ticket IS regressive (though the term is usually limited to taxes).  So is milk, shoes, the price of gas, etc. 

            3.  Are sales higher in "poor" areas?  Probably, but that is because the gas stations and convenience stores, etc. are located in those mixed zoning areas.  Not too many gas stations in the gated communities.  Guess where those folks buy their lottery tickets.  Gallup has done their own independent poll (July 1999) and found that "the highest rates of gambling in the U.S. are found among those in higher income and education brackets".  Generally, the lottery is played by the middle class and the average lottery player earns slightly more and is slightly better educated than the average American. 

            4.  If you were marketing a product, who would you target?  People with no money to spend?

            5.  Over $40 billion per year is spent on the lottery in the U.S.  What is it that poor people don't have? 

            6.  But I do agree that if someone makes less money than you, you should be able to tell them what to do.

             

              Raven62's avatar - binary
              New Jersey
              United States
              Member #17843
              June 28, 2005
              51170 Posts
              Offline
              Posted: December 5, 2005, 11:46 am - IP Logged

              I repeat: The Lottery is not a Tax.

              A Tax is mandatory, required, imposed by the governing authorites to raise revenue, failure to pay means a fine/jail.

              The Lottery is a voluntary game, which suppliments the state government's tax revenue.

              Just because the Lottery money goes into Satate coffers does not transform the game into a TAX. Taxes are imposed. It ain't a Tax!

              Finally, what tax PAYS the taxpayers $ 100,000,000.00 prize for paying the tax?

              or $1,000,000.00 or $1,000.00 Get the distincttion? A voluntary tax is an inncorrect use of the words voluntary and tax- they cancel each other out.

              If a private company was running the Lottery it wouldn't be a Tax, however the State runs the Lottery for the purpose of obtaining State Revenue, so that makes it a Tax.

              As far as the $100,000,000 prize goes: That's payment for the loss of your privacy and leading other Lottery Players to the Lottery Machines in future Drawings. Marketing101: It pays to advertise. Nothing advertises better than pictures of people receiving BIG Checks (did you notice? they don't use Cash!).

               

               

                Avatar

                United States
                Member #27625
                December 4, 2005
                88 Posts
                Offline
                Posted: December 5, 2005, 4:35 pm - IP Logged

                I repeat: The Lottery is not a Tax.

                A Tax is mandatory, required, imposed by the governing authorites to raise revenue, failure to pay means a fine/jail.

                The Lottery is a voluntary game, which suppliments the state government's tax revenue.

                Just because the Lottery money goes into Satate coffers does not transform the game into a TAX. Taxes are imposed. It ain't a Tax!

                Finally, what tax PAYS the taxpayers $ 100,000,000.00 prize for paying the tax?

                or $1,000,000.00 or $1,000.00 Get the distincttion? A voluntary tax is an inncorrect use of the words voluntary and tax- they cancel each other out.

                If a private company was running the Lottery it wouldn't be a Tax, however the State runs the Lottery for the purpose of obtaining State Revenue, so that makes it a Tax.

                As far as the $100,000,000 prize goes: That's payment for the loss of your privacy and leading other Lottery Players to the Lottery Machines in future Drawings. Marketing101: It pays to advertise. Nothing advertises better than pictures of people receiving BIG Checks (did you notice? they don't use Cash!).

                 

                 

                Reply to Raven 62 from Demonter:

                "TAX-levy imposed by state on income, property, etc.." Webster's Dictionary.

                "Impose-to force"....Webster's Dictionary.

                "Lotto(lottery) from the French-a game of chance"...Webster's Dictionary.

                A game of chance that is played VOLUNTARILY is  never IMPOSED (forced), therefore Raven 62 it is not a TAX. Simply because  45% of the revenue goes to the States,   does not alter the exact defination of a TAX. Unless the levy of revenue is MANDATORY...it can not be called a TAX! It is not my opinion here, refer back to Webster's Dictionary; a levy forced under penalty of law is a TAX...LOTTERY play is not mandatory. WHERE THE MONEY GOES DOES NOT ENTER INTO THE VERY CLEAR DEFINITIONAL DISTINCTION BETWEEN A TX AND A VOLUNTARY GAME OF CHANCE-LOTTO. The distinction is very important.

                 

                  Raven62's avatar - binary
                  New Jersey
                  United States
                  Member #17843
                  June 28, 2005
                  51170 Posts
                  Offline
                  Posted: December 5, 2005, 6:25 pm - IP Logged

                  The Lottery is an Entertainment Tax which you pay to the State to be entertained by a Game of Chance.

                   

                    Avatar

                    United States
                    Member #27625
                    December 4, 2005
                    88 Posts
                    Offline
                    Posted: December 5, 2005, 9:06 pm - IP Logged

                    The Lottery is an Entertainment Tax which you pay to the State to be entertained by a Game of Chance.

                     

                    Reply To Raven 62 by Demonter:

                    The Lottery is not a Tax...the Lottery is a voluntary game of chance, where most of the revenue is returned to the players in the form of prizes. You are stretching the semantics by calling the lottery an Entertainment Tax ....

                    ALL TAXES ARE MANDATORY BY THE VERY DEFININTION OF TAX.

                    LOTTERY PLAY IS VOLUNTARY...BEING VOLUNTARY IT DISQUALIFIES ITSELF FROM THE STRICT DEFINITION OF TAX. INCOME TAXES, SALES TAXES, TAXES ON CIGARETTES, LIQUOR, HIGHWAY TOLLS...THESE ARE TAXES MANDATED BY THE STATES /FEDERAL GOVERNMENTS WHICH WE MUST PAY. HOWEVER, WE CHOOSE TO PLAY OR NOT TO PLAY LOTTERIES. WHERE IS THE TAX? Again, just because part of the revenue goes to the State does not make the Lottery a form of taxation. Yes, Lotteries are a method of gathering revenue for the States but so are AUCTIONS OF STATE OWNED PROPERTY. If I win a bid to buy a peice of land being sold by my state, that purchase is not a tax. Even though the revenue generated by the sale of the property goes into the state's treasury. Neither the Lottery sale or the property sale is a tax. AGAIN, A TAX IS IMPOSED BY THE STATE TO GATHER REVENUE, LOTTERIES ARE NOT REQUIRED, THEREFORE THEY ARE NOT AN ENTERTAINMENT TAX; nor is buying a parcel of state owned land a form of paying a tax.

                      Raven62's avatar - binary
                      New Jersey
                      United States
                      Member #17843
                      June 28, 2005
                      51170 Posts
                      Offline
                      Posted: December 6, 2005, 12:42 am - IP Logged

                      The Lottery is an Entertainment Tax which you pay to the State to be entertained by a Game of Chance.

                       

                      Reply To Raven 62 by Demonter:

                      The Lottery is not a Tax...the Lottery is a voluntary game of chance, where most of the revenue is returned to the players in the form of prizes. You are stretching the semantics by calling the lottery an Entertainment Tax ....

                      ALL TAXES ARE MANDATORY BY THE VERY DEFININTION OF TAX.

                      LOTTERY PLAY IS VOLUNTARY...BEING VOLUNTARY IT DISQUALIFIES ITSELF FROM THE STRICT DEFINITION OF TAX. INCOME TAXES, SALES TAXES, TAXES ON CIGARETTES, LIQUOR, HIGHWAY TOLLS...THESE ARE TAXES MANDATED BY THE STATES /FEDERAL GOVERNMENTS WHICH WE MUST PAY. HOWEVER, WE CHOOSE TO PLAY OR NOT TO PLAY LOTTERIES. WHERE IS THE TAX? Again, just because part of the revenue goes to the State does not make the Lottery a form of taxation. Yes, Lotteries are a method of gathering revenue for the States but so are AUCTIONS OF STATE OWNED PROPERTY. If I win a bid to buy a peice of land being sold by my state, that purchase is not a tax. Even though the revenue generated by the sale of the property goes into the state's treasury. Neither the Lottery sale or the property sale is a tax. AGAIN, A TAX IS IMPOSED BY THE STATE TO GATHER REVENUE, LOTTERIES ARE NOT REQUIRED, THEREFORE THEY ARE NOT AN ENTERTAINMENT TAX; nor is buying a parcel of state owned land a form of paying a tax.

                      In that case all are Voluntary: If you don't have Income you don't have to pay Income Tax, If you don't purchase items that are on the State Sales Tax List you don't pay Sales Tax, If you don't purchase gasoline you don't have to pay Gasoline Tax, If you don't purchase Cigarettes you don't have to pay Cigarette Tax, If you don't own Property you don't have to pay Property Tax, If you don't purchase Lottery Tickets you don't have to pay the Entertainment Tax. As soon as you do any of them the State gets their share and it goes directly to the State Treasury.

                       

                        Avatar

                        United States
                        Member #27625
                        December 4, 2005
                        88 Posts
                        Offline
                        Posted: December 6, 2005, 5:54 am - IP Logged

                         Respnse to Raven 62 from Demonter:

                        Are you saying that the State's share of the Lottery is a form of "Tax"? We are getting very semantical here. The Lottery as a game is a revenue gathering mechanism separate from the imposed system of taxation since, again it is voluntary. However, the state does have a disproportionate share of the overall pot relative to other forms of gambling (ie. Casinos )

                        If it is your position that the State's  large share in the Lottery Games is their "TAX" or as it is said on the street  their "Vigorish"  taken from the players I can agree with that. IN SUMMARY, WHILE THE LOTTERY AS A GAME OF CHANCE IS COMPLETELY VOLUNTARY AND NOT A DIRECT TAX, THE STATE'S VERY LARGE PERCENTAGE OF THE POT IS A TAX ON THE WHOLE GAME. THIS IS A TRUE AND ACCURATE ASSESSMENT OF THE GAME.

                          sirbrad's avatar - Lottery-062.jpg
                          PA
                          United States
                          Member #22983
                          October 6, 2005
                          2226 Posts
                          Offline
                          Posted: December 6, 2005, 5:46 pm - IP Logged

                          If one wins big, it becomes a tax real quick regardless.

                            Avatar

                            United States
                            Member #27625
                            December 4, 2005
                            88 Posts
                            Offline
                            Posted: December 6, 2005, 5:55 pm - IP Logged

                            If one wins big, it becomes a tax real quick regardless.

                            In response to sirbrad on 12/06/05:

                            The whole win doesn't become a TAX! Just about 36%..the lucky winner gets to keep most of the money. Take the cash option of course, the annuity is a ripoff. Factor in inflation (the time value of money) and the often overlooked fact that if you die anytime after you start getting your annuity, the IRS levies an immediate inheritance TAX of 25% due at once...your heirs are screwed. Get a big life insurance policy for your heirs to cover the tax. It happened to a guy a few years ago and it messed up his heirs big time. That is if you care.

                              Avatar

                              United States
                              Member #27625
                              December 4, 2005
                              88 Posts
                              Offline
                              Posted: December 6, 2005, 6:03 pm - IP Logged

                              CHUCK 32:

                              You are right, the Lottery is not a tax. Taxes are not voluntary. Raven and I have a debate going on, I agreed that the State's percentage of the player's pot can be considered a sort of a"TAX" since it is imposed by them as their profit; you have to pay it if you play...so with a sematic twist, yeah sure they Tax us. Que sera, sera.