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# Lottery Post member turns up the heat on the Hoosier Lottery

Topic closed. 44 replies. Last post 11 years ago by CASH Only.

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Tennessee
United States
Member #7853
October 15, 2004
11338 Posts
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 Posted: February 4, 2006, 5:35 am - IP Logged

"This was a one-time situation," Thayer said.

i have a question for you mr. thayer....

are you sure??????

Greenfield
United States
Member #3587
February 2, 2004
557 Posts
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 Posted: February 4, 2006, 5:42 am - IP Logged

Consider this. I do not know the exact sales figures for the daily 4 games yet. But, one could reason that a minimum draw would be in the \$40,000 range per draw; I dont think this is unreasonable.

Using simple math, \$40,000 x 24 way combo equals just under a million possible combinations. Since the odds of winning a straight or straight combo is 1:10000, wouldnt it stand to reason that dividing 960,000 by 10000 would give you the "possibility" for 4 straight winners a draw? Be more conservative. Say there is \$20,000 spent per draw. Then there could  be nearly 100 box winners (based on 1:460) per day and possibly 2-3 straight winners. I know there are many factors.  I know these figures are a little high, but considering the fact that the Hoosier Lottery says it pays back 57 percent to its players, wouldnt a day where sales is \$40,000 pay back 22,000 dollars to players?

Then why do goose eggs constantly appear in the straight winner area on the payout screen? Why can States like South Carolina(2 million less ppl) significantly outpay Indiana on each and every day? Why do these bags of tickets I have yield no winners? Why is it a coincidence that I am one off on every other draw? Why do annuities change and nobody knows about it? Why do people believe Indiana still uses ping pong balls? Why isnt there live televised drawing? Why havent I got my 57 percent back to the player? Enough said for now. I do not want to sound awful here as many of you, I know, are tired of hearing me complain. Please understand that I am on a mission to get the Balls back! I am just trying to shed some light. Please dont hold that against me.

Any person should be able to reason that the odds will be paid back to you. Not so here. The odds are literally non-existent. Wish I would have known that years ago. It has been awful to say the least. Remember this, it's one thing to predict a winner on this site. It's another thing to buy the ticket and win!

" FUN IS BAD " ----causes Bankruptcy

Tennessee
United States
Member #7853
October 15, 2004
11338 Posts
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 Posted: February 4, 2006, 6:42 am - IP Logged

i'm behind you 100 percent.i hate the fact that those thugs who call themselves lottery officials in indiana can have a good conscience after stealing most of the players including you blind the last 5 years.been 5 long years or more or less a half a decade since the hoosier lottery suddenly figured out they could rob people blind and get away with it.i bet the people who got together and figured that out must be really proud of themselves.well lets see here we can get rid of the balls and have an RNG track all numbers played and pay out on the number played the least and rack in all the players money everyday! also we can situate all scratch offs in populated places because it wouldn't help any to put them in places where there aren't as many players.i bet in 2001 the hoosier lottery would've probably been voted as one of the best lotteries in america before the dreaded computerized takeover happened.but i think that here soon maybe the tide will turn and players can get the balls back and indiana can admit they made a mistake.is that too much to ask mr. indiana lottery director????

Indiana
United States
Member #29196
December 29, 2005
280 Posts
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 Posted: February 4, 2006, 11:45 am - IP Logged

Once again I'd like to respond to a few things said in this thread:

First to Honorary Hoosier Lottomike...it's Ms Indiana Lottery director not Mr.

Next...to combine points made by Lottomike and WinningJeff...with regard to the numbers games many of us do believe that the Hoosier Lottery computer does indeed track the numbers played and that that information is somehow fed to the (so-called) RNG which then excludes not only the most often played combinations but also numbers that might result in a straight payout.  (And once again I must point out that I have no actual factual data to support this paranoid conspiracy theory.)

As for the point about people predicting winning numbers here at Lottery Post and indeed placing bets on line and winning on the Hoosier Lottery...in support of my paranoid conspiracy theory I need to remind all of you that the numbers you pick and indeed the numbers you play NEVER go into the Hoosier Lottery computer.  Your on line bets are not placed with the Hoosier Lottery so they don't go into the computer...they are not tracked...and if you win the prize is not payed out by the Hoosier Lottery.

(NOTE: I had to ask this question yesterday because I couldn't figure out why so many of you on line players were talking about winning and yet the in state payouts are always so low.)

Now...without being rude it seems entirely possible to me that WinningJeff is absolutely inept when it comes to picking numbers.  But given the nature of on line betting it seems more than plausible to me that in-state bets are indeed scanned, tracked, blocked and cut off while on-line bets (again those that are never actually placed with the Hoosier Lottery) are not.  Therefore, those of you playing on-line may indeed be able to consistantly pick winners while those of us in-state consistantly pick losers.  The on-line betters look at the numbers...use their own systems and win.  The in-state betters look at the numbers...use their own systems and lose.  Why?  The answer seems obvious to me...more than a bit paranoid but obvious nontheless.  (Man!  Oliver Stone would love this stuff!)

With regard to sales firgure...after some considerable research I was able to find some Hoosier Lottery sales figures.  They were published in the annual report to the Lottery Commission but I'm afraid they're not very helpful.  According to the annual report, 2005 annual sales for the Hoosier Lottery Daily 3 and Daily 4 games combined were \$59.4 million.  I could not find a breakdown as to how much each game accounted for or how much was Midday versus Evening.  I also could not find a prize payout breakdown on those games.  If anyone knows the sales figures from any other state lotteries of comparable size...please post them so we can compare.

With regard to scratch off games the numbers absolutely blew me away.  The Hoosier Lottery reported a combined total sales in 2005 of \$739.8 million.  Scratch off sales accounted for considerably more than half of that figure coming in at \$470.4 million.  (Obviously the most recent off scandal hasn't hurt the Hoosier Lottery as much as their whining would have us believe.)

And again I could find no alses breakdown on the games or the geographic distribution by county that would shed any light on the winners distribution pattern.  But I did find what looks like an anomaly.

St. Joseph County in Northern Indiana has a population of approximately 266,400 people.  (Less than either of the aforementioned Lake or Allen Counties.)  It is home to the city of South Bend and Notre Dame University.  Yet St. Joseph County has had the same number of top tier winners...17...as the other counties 2 combined.  One county with a population of 266,000 has the same number of winners as 2 counties with a combined population of 833,000.  I also want to point out that that 266,000 is considerably less that the combined population of the 21 aforementioned counties (548,000) that have never had a top tier winner.  And if one does the math one finds that the ratio of winners to population is very close to that of Marion County (Indianapolis).  A ration by the way that does not stand up with any other county in the state I have checked so far.  (I'm not done yet I have more counties to check.)

I have no idea what if any connection there may or may not be between St. Joseph County and the Hoosier Lottery.  But it is absolutely inconceivable to me that in a "blind" system of random distribution one county could consistantly receive so many top tier prizes while other counties with larger populations (i.e. Lake and Allen) and many more counties (21 with albeit much smaller populations) consistantly get less and indeed even no top tier winners.

Once again I feel compelled to point out that I have no actual factual data that the Hoosier Lottery is rigged.  All I have are observations that lead me to ask a lot of questions.  But for those of you who think we're all just a bunch of disgruntle losers and wild eyed conspiracy nuts let me put it to you this way:

If you see a creature waddling down the road...and it has feathers, webbed feet and it quacks...what conclusion would you draw?

Jim

Money frees you from doing things you dislike.  Since I dislike doing nearly everything, money is handy.  - Groucho Marx

Greenfield
United States
Member #3587
February 2, 2004
557 Posts
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 Posted: February 4, 2006, 12:21 pm - IP Logged

Well Done Jim! Watch you have just identified is something that never ever should happen. Proper audits and internal controls, as well as vulnerability assessments would prevent these types of problems from ever occuring; however, 16 years of no audits has gave you the result you are seeing. How did the former Director keep his job if payouts on the daily games are so bad? Why didn't he investigate these low payouts?

You are right, the scratch off figures are staggering! How is that? Probably because they  take in a heck of alot more than they pay out. I am looking at a stack of 10 dollar tickets that is 1 foot high with no winners. This is ridiculous. Gosh, I wish I could have a business where I get 100 profit, dont you? Anyways, you are right about my ineptness. Too never hit a straight combo after 100 thou worth of combos is pretty bad. Jim 695 and I both discovered a long time ago that you can win on paper, but not if you spend the money. We also too our tickets and figured that the odds of hitting a pic 4 straight is somewhere in the neighborhood of 1:40000. Actually worse in my case though. So yes, inept is a good word. Jim, did you know that Indiana is 2nd in the Nation in Bankruptcies? In other words, its a part of life here. Its a no win situation.

" FUN IS BAD " ----causes Bankruptcy

Greenfield
United States
Member #3587
February 2, 2004
557 Posts
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 Posted: February 4, 2006, 12:36 pm - IP Logged

Sorry about the mispelling above. Meant to say what in the first sentence, not watch. Its been bad lately--maybe alzheimers is setting in on me. Or maybe my brain is too overworked from counting all these losing tickets I have accumulated for years.

" FUN IS BAD " ----causes Bankruptcy

United States
Member #15309
May 13, 2005
307 Posts
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 Posted: February 4, 2006, 1:01 pm - IP Logged

It's the Jimmy Grimeses of the world that bring to the fore shenanigans.  That is how shenanigans get noticed and investigations get started.  Kudos!!!

Greenfield
United States
Member #3587
February 2, 2004
557 Posts
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 Posted: February 4, 2006, 1:19 pm - IP Logged

Go Jim 695!

" FUN IS BAD " ----causes Bankruptcy

New Member

United States
Member #31425
January 29, 2006
18 Posts
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 Posted: February 5, 2006, 9:01 am - IP Logged

Every State Representives territory is broken down by population ect, and what I would like to see by each district is, the names addresses and zip code of each vendor that sells lottery and scratch off tickets. The winners zip codes. Most who win big don't want their names published. Okay lets get their zip code before they move to that big new house and compare the information with the vendors. Do all these winners live in the district that the tickets where purchased from? If I knew where the winning scratch offs were going I could go to that district and purchase all the tickets that vendor had. We have no real tracking system to the people and vendors winning. In Texas Gtech receives the scratch off tickets and does the distributing of the tickets. People need to write to their State Representive for a bill to track this money for the entire state to see. Wonder if those counties in Indiana would then get some winners that never have. Or, write up a petition and get enough signatures that the State has to put it on the ballots when you have a State wide election. The people have the power but let the State run Lottery Agency do what they want to. The commissioners have too much power. It belongs to the people of each State who play and pay to support the lottery.

Indiana
United States
Member #29196
December 29, 2005
280 Posts
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 Posted: February 6, 2006, 9:10 am - IP Logged

@richwood:

You make more than a few good points in you post.  I'll just respond to one:

In Indiana it doesn't matter whether or not the winner wants his/her published.  By state law the Hoosier Lottery is required to publish the winner's name and county of residence.

One of the things I complained about in my initial letter to the Hoosier Lottery is that they (the Hooseir Lottery) goes beyond that for their own purposes.  They shamelessly exploit all winners because they believe it motivates people (read: losers) to buy more tickets.

This disclaimer is from the back of every Hoosier Lottery ticket:

The holder of this ticket agrees to participate in interviews with Lottery public relations personnel and the media and grants permission to use his/her name, photograph, comments and image in lottery sponsored advertising and promotions.

You must sign the ticket in order to collect your prize and by so doing you give up your right to privacy forever and become another trained animal to be exhibited and exploited in the Hoosier Lottery Dog and Pony show.

(IMHO) Using the vernacular of the day...that's just wrong.

Jim

Money frees you from doing things you dislike.  Since I dislike doing nearly everything, money is handy.  - Groucho Marx

New Member

United States
Member #31425
January 29, 2006
18 Posts
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 Posted: February 6, 2006, 1:29 pm - IP Logged

In Texas the Lottery began in1992 and everyone who won had to give their name. Now when people win its a Trust company or corporation name and you don't really know who won. Also keep in mind that Texas borders Mexico and a lot of illegal and green card holders play the lottery. The last large pot in Texas of 145,000,000 million went across the border. While they many exploit the winners names in Indiana at least you know who won. Not so in Texas. A lot of secrecy about public pooled money and we don't know who won ,or how much leaves the state each drawing.
Then the State Legislators tell us that the State is 10 billion dollars in debt and need to cut services (jobs) to balance the budget. Since the citizens really don't have a tracking system that is public information without having to write Austin the Capital to get information on the lottery we are told what the Commissioner and Lottery Director wants the public to hear. Scratch tickets here are put on the Texas lottery internet page and we can see the old games, new games, coming games, and how many tickets are in each game, and every once in a while they update the claimed tickets. Seems like the big ticket games with 1 or 2 million get claimed shortly after the games starts. I am writing for a tracking system by State Districts and vendors. I don't believe the man in Indiana is the only one who knows where the winners are.

New Member

United States
Member #31425
January 29, 2006
18 Posts
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 Posted: February 6, 2006, 1:40 pm - IP Logged

In Texas the Lottery began in1992 and everyone who won had to give their name. Now when people win its a Trust company or corporation name and you don't really know who won. Also keep in mind that Texas borders Mexico and a lot of illegal and green card holders play the lottery. The last large pot in Texas of 145,000,000 million went across the border. While they many exploit the winners names in Indiana at least you know who won. Not so in Texas. A lot of secrecy about public pooled money and we don't know who won ,or how much leaves the state each drawing.
Then the State Legislators tell us that the State is 10 billion dollars in debt and need to cut services (jobs) to balance the budget. Since the citizens really don't have a tracking system that is public information without having to write Austin the Capital to get information on the lottery we are told what the Commissioner and Lottery Director wants the public to hear. Scratch tickets here are put on the Texas lottery internet page and we can see the old games, new games, coming games, and how many tickets are in each game, and every once in a while they update the claimed tickets. Seems like the big ticket games with 1 or 2 million get claimed shortly after the games starts. I am writing for a tracking system by State Districts and vendors. I don't believe the man in Indiana is the only one who knows where the winners are.

Atlanta, GA
United States
Member #1265
March 13, 2003
3333 Posts
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 Posted: February 6, 2006, 1:47 pm - IP Logged

If someone is clever and digs hard enough they can come up with that information via public record.    Same argument has been tossed around here .... winner seeking privacy, public seeking complete disclosure.  People pay attorneys to protect their identities for reasons of safety to themselves and their families.  Were you in a similar situation you might consider same too.

To my knowledge there don't seem to be any laws prohibiting people from other nations playing in any US state lotteries.  Don't know of any nation in the world which would prohibit legally inflowing money.

Many years ago there was an outcry when Powerball got very high drawing money in from other countries .... don't remember who won that jackpot but figure that if someone else wanted to invest their money in the ultimate lottery player's American dream, then so be it.

Let everyone continue dream and some lucky ones realize just that.

Good luck to everyone!

New Member

United States
Member #31425
January 29, 2006
18 Posts
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 Posted: February 6, 2006, 3:16 pm - IP Logged

When people buy tickets from one State and live in another their State stands to benifit from this win fall. If letting anyone play from one state to the next is good for the overall game than why not let everyone in the United States play any State Lottery without having to travel to that State?
I heard that Michigan does not allow outsiders to win the pots, if anyone has information concerning this please write. When the money leaves America and goes to Mexico or any other country it hurts that State. When you win in your State and continue to live in your State than you will
probably buy a new home, car, applicances ect. This is all Taxed in that State and all people of the State who played benifit. When it leaves the State than you lose that sales tax revenue. Then the legislators want you to pay more taxes, and cut jobs. In America we have lost enough jobs to other countries. Should we lose our donations to our lotteries also? As for par mutuel wagering it should have been dead long ago. Why not pick 100 tickets per pot or two hundred tickets and give the people in each state a real chance to win. The State would take in more money, their would be more winners, and less Statewide job cuts, lower taxes would result.   Most States started a lottery to benifit the schools. In Texas HISD the second largest school district in Texas was 100 million short yet we have a Education fund with 7 billion plus dollars. Don't up my property taxes or cut State jobs. The lottery help keep people working. Where is the money going? Thats why every state should have a tracking system in place for the public to see. They could hold the drawings in different parts of the State at public Stadiums or any building that could hold thousands of people. Sell hot dog, cokes ect and charge 1.00 per person to come in and watch a live drawing. Draw 100 or two hundred tickets and people would pay to come. Let the previous winners hand draw the balls in a clear container, and verify all balls are present. This would give the people in each State a fair and honest chance to win. I don't want to play a game where 1 person walks away with all the money year after year. In Texas we started out with 6/50 drawings, then the commissioners changed it to 6/54, then to 5/bonus ball. The people of the State of Texas protested and they did not listen. Lost revenue and now they want to take the bonus ball out of the game and return to 6/54. Our 4 number game also has a bonus ball, and the Mega Millions with a bonus ball. Our Cash five started out 1-39 now changed to 1-37. Ohio where I was born, changed their 5 number game to 1-39 from 1-37. Gtech knows what they are doing when they push the commissioner to change games to bonus balls, or add or subtract balls. They players lose more money. The player don't have anyone to lobby for their interst in the State Lotteries. The Gaming companies do.

United States
Member #379
June 5, 2002
11296 Posts
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 Posted: March 3, 2006, 3:35 pm - IP Logged

When people buy tickets from one State and live in another their State stands to benifit from this win fall. If letting anyone play from one state to the next is good for the overall game than why not let everyone in the United States play any State Lottery without having to travel to that State?
I heard that Michigan does not allow outsiders to win the pots, if anyone has information concerning this please write. When the money leaves America and goes to Mexico or any other country it hurts that State. When you win in your State and continue to live in your State than you will
probably buy a new home, car, applicances ect. This is all Taxed in that State and all people of the State who played benifit. When it leaves the State than you lose that sales tax revenue. Then the legislators want you to pay more taxes, and cut jobs. In America we have lost enough jobs to other countries. Should we lose our donations to our lotteries also? As for par mutuel wagering it should have been dead long ago. Why not pick 100 tickets per pot or two hundred tickets and give the people in each state a real chance to win. The State would take in more money, their would be more winners, and less Statewide job cuts, lower taxes would result.   Most States started a lottery to benifit the schools. In Texas HISD the second largest school district in Texas was 100 million short yet we have a Education fund with 7 billion plus dollars. Don't up my property taxes or cut State jobs. The lottery help keep people working. Where is the money going? Thats why every state should have a tracking system in place for the public to see. They could hold the drawings in different parts of the State at public Stadiums or any building that could hold thousands of people. Sell hot dog, cokes ect and charge 1.00 per person to come in and watch a live drawing. Draw 100 or two hundred tickets and people would pay to come. Let the previous winners hand draw the balls in a clear container, and verify all balls are present. This would give the people in each State a fair and honest chance to win. I don't want to play a game where 1 person walks away with all the money year after year. In Texas we started out with 6/50 drawings, then the commissioners changed it to 6/54, then to 5/bonus ball. The people of the State of Texas protested and they did not listen. Lost revenue and now they want to take the bonus ball out of the game and return to 6/54. Our 4 number game also has a bonus ball, and the Mega Millions with a bonus ball. Our Cash five started out 1-39 now changed to 1-37. Ohio where I was born, changed their 5 number game to 1-39 from 1-37. Gtech knows what they are doing when they push the commissioner to change games to bonus balls, or add or subtract balls. They players lose more money. The player don't have anyone to lobby for their interst in the State Lotteries. The Gaming companies do.

And your lotto is going back to 6/54. I like that decision.

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