Welcome Guest
Log In | Register )
You last visited December 8, 2016, 10:44 pm
All times shown are
Eastern Time (GMT-5:00)

Wisconsin factory workers win $208M Powerball lottery

Topic closed. 74 replies. Last post 10 years ago by Just6ntlc.

Page 4 of 5
PrintE-mailLink
Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
Chief Bottle Washer
New Jersey
United States
Member #1
May 31, 2000
23273 Posts
Online
Posted: August 9, 2006, 10:12 am - IP Logged

MA Megabucks is _still_ annuity only.

chuck32, you should stop hawking annuities, and concentrate on getting more MUSL members to join Hot Lotto.

Cash Only, Chuck32 is the one making making the most sense here, and it's obvious to anyone reading this that he knows a heck of a lot more about this topic than you do.  If everyone followed your advice there would be a lot more stories about bankrupt lottery winners in the News section.


Chuck32, that's good news on a new HL state, although I wish the announcement was going to be that MUSL has decided to switch HL back to real drawings. Wink

 

Check the State Lottery Report Card
What grade did your lottery earn?

 

Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
Help eliminate computerized drawings!

    Avatar
    Urbandale, IA
    United States
    Member #8624
    November 11, 2004
    115 Posts
    Offline
    Posted: August 9, 2006, 10:16 am - IP Logged

    Not sure I understand the question.  "Anyone want what as the annuity?"  The question is "Anyone want the payments as an annuity?"  The exact amount of the annuity cannot be known until competitive bids to purchase the best securities, but the lottery can come close enough for a winner to make a decision. 

    I think the confusion comes from the fact that everyone starts with the annuity amount (which, to be fair, is the focus amount for most lotteries and the press) and then tries to work backwards.  Actually, the lottery starts with the cash amount, and then looks at what it can earn by investing the cash into an annuity stream. 

     The annuity option does NOT have to be declared before shares start getting divvied up.  Start by putting everyone's cash into separate bags and then, for those that want the annuity, take the bag back and go out and buy an annuity for those folks (pre-tax, of course, or you could just as easily buy your own annuity stream).

    A 99-year-old is a classic case for taking the cash.  Same if you just want to have a big party and spend it all in a short time.  Always the winner's choice.

      Avatar
      Urbandale, IA
      United States
      Member #8624
      November 11, 2004
      115 Posts
      Offline
      Posted: August 9, 2006, 12:09 pm - IP Logged

      Oh, differences of opinion are good.  Sometimes, even I can learn something <G>.

       I hear ya on the real draw thing.  I love the RNG's - but more from a techno geek viewpoint.  The HL RNG is based on unpredictable radioactive decay.  How cool is that?  The machines are packed with Americium 241. 


        United States
        Member #379
        June 5, 2002
        11296 Posts
        Offline
        Posted: August 9, 2006, 12:32 pm - IP Logged

        I'm glad that HL is continuing to grow. I hope there will be a matrix change to create bigger jackpots, which in turn would entice more states-maybe even KY would dump Lose for Life.

        Smoke detectors have Am 241 or something like that in them.

          Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
          Chief Bottle Washer
          New Jersey
          United States
          Member #1
          May 31, 2000
          23273 Posts
          Online
          Posted: August 9, 2006, 1:16 pm - IP Logged

          Oh, differences of opinion are good.  Sometimes, even I can learn something <G>.

           I hear ya on the real draw thing.  I love the RNG's - but more from a techno geek viewpoint.  The HL RNG is based on unpredictable radioactive decay.  How cool is that?  The machines are packed with Americium 241. 

          That is actually pretty cool (from that geek standpoint Cool).  I wish your server had an API so I could tap the LP quick picks generator into it. Big Grin

          For that matter, I wish the state lottery ticket machines would use a better QP generator, although I'm not sure if they could use something of that sophistication from either a financial or HAZMAT standpoint.  I think the decaying radioactive material might be a problem on the store checkout counter. LOL

          Cheers 

           

          Check the State Lottery Report Card
          What grade did your lottery earn?

           

          Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
          Help eliminate computerized drawings!

            Coin Toss's avatar - shape barbed.jpg
            Zeta Reticuli Star System
            United States
            Member #30470
            January 17, 2006
            10353 Posts
            Online
            Posted: August 9, 2006, 7:09 pm - IP Logged


            chuck32, all

            okay, let me try to rephrase this:

            Not sure I understand the question.  "Anyone want what as the annuity?"

             When I say what as the annuity, I mean the $208 million (in this case) as oppossed to the cash option, which we all agree ain't going to be near $208 million.

            Please follow along - I'm not doubting anything you've said here, and you obviously know your stuff, and it's agreed the lottery operates with the 'green energy' (cash) from the get go....

             All that consiered, my question is now if it's possible for a jackpot payed to a group to be split up some annuitites and some cash option pay-me-now, why have we never heard it before? with all the Powerball and Mega Million jackpots that have been hit, and all the media hype, I can't ever recall hearing a report something like this:

            Twenty people hit the _ _ _ _ _ jackpot for $88 million. Ten of the twenty opted for the cash payout, dividing up $44 million before taxes, and the other ten took an annuity. 

            Nope, can't recall ever once hearing anything like that. Can anyone here?

              Avatar
              Urbandale, IA
              United States
              Member #8624
              November 11, 2004
              115 Posts
              Offline
              Posted: August 9, 2006, 11:11 pm - IP Logged


              chuck32, all

              okay, let me try to rephrase this:

              Not sure I understand the question.  "Anyone want what as the annuity?"

               When I say what as the annuity, I mean the $208 million (in this case) as oppossed to the cash option, which we all agree ain't going to be near $208 million.

              Please follow along - I'm not doubting anything you've said here, and you obviously know your stuff, and it's agreed the lottery operates with the 'green energy' (cash) from the get go....

               All that consiered, my question is now if it's possible for a jackpot payed to a group to be split up some annuitites and some cash option pay-me-now, why have we never heard it before? with all the Powerball and Mega Million jackpots that have been hit, and all the media hype, I can't ever recall hearing a report something like this:

              Twenty people hit the _ _ _ _ _ jackpot for $88 million. Ten of the twenty opted for the cash payout, dividing up $44 million before taxes, and the other ten took an annuity. 

              Nope, can't recall ever once hearing anything like that. Can anyone here?

              I guess I would answer it this way: "what" could be "your payment" as in "Anyone want your payment as the annuity?"  You can also just say, "Do you want the annuity option or cash option?  There are two options offered.  The Powerball website gives a cash number and an annuity number.  The player picks one or the other.  One is called CASH and the other is called ANNUITY.  If there are multiple winners, the share of either one is divided by the number of winning tickets.

              Part of the problem may be where you are starting from.  Like the educated man who went to learn from the Zen Master.  The Zen Master filled his cup with tea as the man told him of his wonderous education.  Then the Zen Master poured more into his cup until it overflowed.  "Stop," the educated man said, "you are overfilling my cup, it is too full already."  The Zen Master said, "Yes, now you see."

               So forget everything and start over.  For every dollar sale, 30 cents goes to the cash jackpot.  So you sell a dollar and the cash jackpot is then 30 cents.  You sell another dollar and the cash jackpot goes to 60 cents.  You know that if you invest the 60 cents before taxes, you can pay out $1.30.  So then you announce that the cash jackpot is 60 cents and the annuity jackpot is $1.30.  Of course, then the lottery announces a jackpot, they are guessing what sales will be - and what the interest rates will be.

               If there are two winners and one wants cash, the CASH jackpot is split.  The cash person gets 30 cents, he gives about 15 cents to the federal and state goverment and then has 15 cents left over to invest.  The annuity person gets his 30 cents invested by the lottery and will get a total of 65 cents over time. 

              How's that?

              How come you haven't heard about this before?  Powerball has had groups of winners where some pick annuity and others pick cash.  Perhaps the newspaper you read just doesn't cover it very well.  Reporters understand less than you do about the lottery.  It is also somewhat rare.  Most people take the cash.  They get expert advice to take the cash and then to turn it over to the expert to invest.  I've had discussions with a couple of finance professors and some big time financial writers and they do get it.  Taxes do real damage to what you have left to invest.

                justxploring's avatar - villiarna
                Wandering Aimlessly
                United States
                Member #25360
                November 5, 2005
                4461 Posts
                Offline
                Posted: August 9, 2006, 11:37 pm - IP Logged

                I see what both of you are saying, but I agree with Coin Toss.  Many states won't even bother paying more than one claimant. That's why in most cases it's best to create a trust and appoint a trustee.

                As far as choosing annuity vs lump sum, I know it can be mathematically calculated, but I'm almost willing to be the states won't do it.

                "Powerball has had groups of winners where some pick annuity and others pick cash."

                Can you please post an example of this?  I know that when there are multiple winners of a jackpot, the individual can decide on annual payments or lump sum. I have never heard of the same winning jackpot being paid in 2 different ways.

                Reporters understand less than you do about the lottery. 

                You sound awfully sure of yourself. Reporters know less than you do. Other members on this board know less than you do.  Do you work for MUSL?

                  Coin Toss's avatar - shape barbed.jpg
                  Zeta Reticuli Star System
                  United States
                  Member #30470
                  January 17, 2006
                  10353 Posts
                  Online
                  Posted: August 9, 2006, 11:58 pm - IP Logged


                  chuck32

                  If there are multiple winners, the share of either one is divided by the number of winning tickets.

                  Bingo. The number of winning tickets and a prize based on which amount, advertised jackpot or lump sum. Like I said, you know your stiff but you seem to be doing some bobbing and weaving on providing any specific example.

                  Let's say two people happen to have picked the winning numbers, they're goiing to share the prize. Call the prize $20 million for right now. One wants the lowered cash amount, right now. The other wants an annuity and says, "I'll be dipped in grits if I'm passing up the cash option onl'y to get  dinged $10 million on the deal."

                  Now take the two people, call it one hundred, jack the jackpot up to the $208 million just hit and we have this Wisconsin group.

                  I'm going to be real curious to see how they do get paid. 

                    Avatar
                    Urbandale, IA
                    United States
                    Member #8624
                    November 11, 2004
                    115 Posts
                    Offline
                    Posted: August 10, 2006, 12:00 am - IP Logged

                    There are a few states that only want to cut one check per winning ticket, but most will cut separate checks.  WI has a law that it can only write one check, but they can get a court order to get the job done.  Many lotteries see it as a customer service issue.  MN has a policy of writing whatever number of checks it takes. 

                    The math to set up cash and annuity options is really pretty simple.  MUSL handles that part.  Just divide up the cash and then use a winner's share of cash to set up an annuity if that is what they want.

                    If I remember right, Lincoln NE winners had some split choices.  Specifically, one of the winners apparently shared his share of the prize with his son (same name) and the son took his share as the annuity.  A split of a split.  It does not happen often.  Cash is the biggest choice by a wide margin.

                    I'm sure that there are members here who know all this and more.  Cash, annuity, present value are standard terms for financial folks.  Are you trying to "out" me?

                      weshar75's avatar - Lottery-042.jpg
                      Mcminnville, Oregon
                      United States
                      Member #3013
                      December 13, 2003
                      3052 Posts
                      Offline
                      Posted: August 10, 2006, 12:06 am - IP Logged

                      I think that Musl should go ahead and make a game for tuesday's and friday's that I could play in Oregon.  Since I moved to Eugene I am further away from Mega Millions in either direction.  So another big jackpot game would be a game I would like to play in addition to powerball.-weshar75

                        Avatar
                        Urbandale, IA
                        United States
                        Member #8624
                        November 11, 2004
                        115 Posts
                        Offline
                        Posted: August 10, 2006, 12:07 am - IP Logged


                        chuck32

                        If there are multiple winners, the share of either one is divided by the number of winning tickets.

                        Bingo. The number of winning tickets and a prize based on which amount, advertised jackpot or lump sum. Like I said, you know your stiff but you seem to be doing some bobbing and weaving on providing any specific example.

                        Let's say two people happen to have picked the winning numbers, they're goiing to share the prize. Call the prize $20 million for right now. One wants the lowered cash amount, right now. The other wants an annuity and says, "I'll be dipped in grits if I'm passing up the cash option onl'y to get  dinged $10 million on the deal."

                        Now take the two people, call it one hundred, jack the jackpot up to the $208 million just hit and we have this Wisconsin group.

                        I'm going to be real curious to see how they do get paid. 

                        Sorry I come off as confusing.  I'll try again using your example. 

                        Two people win.  Two winning tickets.  The prize if $20 million - I assume you mean $20 million annuity here.  Let's call the cash $9 million - the amount that the lottery actually has on the day of the win. 

                        The two winners want different options.  The $9 million cash is split.  The cash guy takes $4.5 million in cash.  The annuity guy gets $4.5 million plus interest (for maybe $10 million annuity). 

                         The cash guy gets $4.5 million less 25% Federal withholding and less about 6% state withholding, then has to figure his actual tax (the maximum Fed rate is 35% and states vary but might be 12% or so and then has rest leftover to invest. 

                        The annuity guy gets an immediate first payment, then the lottery invests the rest, before taxes and starts earning interest on that amount.

                          Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
                          Chief Bottle Washer
                          New Jersey
                          United States
                          Member #1
                          May 31, 2000
                          23273 Posts
                          Online
                          Posted: August 10, 2006, 12:39 am - IP Logged

                          I think that Musl should go ahead and make a game for tuesday's and friday's that I could play in Oregon.  Since I moved to Eugene I am further away from Mega Millions in either direction.  So another big jackpot game would be a game I would like to play in addition to powerball.-weshar75

                          A game that goes head-to-head with MM?  Sounds intriguing.  I wonder if the two biggies coordinate their efforts a bit to make sure they don't go up against each other.  I'm not sure if we'd find out all the scoop on that one in a public forum!

                           

                          Check the State Lottery Report Card
                          What grade did your lottery earn?

                           

                          Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
                          Help eliminate computerized drawings!

                            justxploring's avatar - villiarna
                            Wandering Aimlessly
                            United States
                            Member #25360
                            November 5, 2005
                            4461 Posts
                            Offline
                            Posted: August 10, 2006, 1:52 am - IP Logged

                            "Sorry I come off as confusing.  I'll try again using your example. 

                            Two people win.  Two winning tickets.  The prize if $20 million - I assume you mean $20 million annuity here.  Let's call the cash $9 million - the amount that the lottery actually has on the day of the win." chuck32

                            Chuck, that wasn't the subject at all.  I can't speak for Coin Toss or anyone else here, but from my point of view we were all talking about the Wisconsin winners, right? There was only ONE winning ticket. It is an entirely different situation which is why I asked you to please provide a link to any case where a state paid a single claim in a variety of ways, i.e., 3 people lump sum, 4 people annuity.  I'm not saying it never happens, just that I've never heard of it and now we are talking about 100 people and one jackpot. Anyway, if WI has a rule that only one winner is paid, then a Trust will have to claim the money and payout the winners. I would be very surprised if a Lottery Commission would open up that can of worm and do so much paperwork. 

                            "Of course these folks can retire.  If they take the GUARANTEED ANNUITY, they will get a guaranteed income stream that will keep up with inflation and is likely to be slightly better than they are currently making.  These second shift workers reportedly have incomes of $30,000 to $40,000." 

                            Chuck, I hope I don't sound too argumentative. I don't mean to be. It's just that the above comment sounds a bit judgmental. You are assuming that these people were happy as pigs in mud making $30K a year. Perhaps they were, but maybe they also want a better lifestyle. If they continue working, they can now get it without working double shifts or budgeting every dollar. Also, what are the married workers going to tell their spouses? "Honey, get up. I'm staying in bed from now on!" For me that kind of money would be enough to retire, but I don't have a growing family. (I'd still take the cash.)

                            There are other important things to consider when you have a good job. First, if someone has a family he has the responsibility of providing them with protection. What I mean is that a plant like Sargento probably offers wonderful group benefits. We really don't know the personal stories of the winners, so this is all conjecture. But out of 100 people, I will bet there's somebody with a pre-existing condition like heart disease that would keep him from getting good, private medical coverage at a reasonable rate, if at all. Do you know what a family plan costs? Plus private plans don't have to follow the group laws and can be cancelled. If you have a child with a disability, or a wife with cervical or breast cancer, those benefits are priceless.

                            Maybe some time to take a fun job - one you don't really care about losing"

                            Depends if you're talking about a carefree single guy or a family man (or woman.) I guess everyone's different, but I don't understand why a person wouldn't want to provide his/her family with a nicer home, a good college education and straight teeth!! There's nothing wrong with goofing off a little, taking a nice vacation or buying a really sharp car, and I relate 100% to what you're saying about taking a fun job.  In fact, your above statement is my goal! But I think winning the money and saying "I think I'll have fun" is a bit irresponsible when you have others to think about because the future is so unpredictable and it would be important to make sure that in 30 years, when the checks stop coming, you've put away enough to retire comfortably. Just my opinion.

                            NOTE to Psychomo - nobody gave you an attaboy for your "Whey to go" comment.  So let me do it now. 

                             Green laugh

                              Coin Toss's avatar - shape barbed.jpg
                              Zeta Reticuli Star System
                              United States
                              Member #30470
                              January 17, 2006
                              10353 Posts
                              Online
                              Posted: August 10, 2006, 2:10 am - IP Logged


                              Not trying to 'out' anybody. I'm just wondering why we'd never heard of one of these 'split' payoffs before. 

                              This is what I was getting at: in your example above:

                              The two winners want different options.  The $9 million cash is split.  The cash guy takes $4.5 million in cash.  The annuity guy gets $4.5 million plus interest (for maybe $10 million annuity).

                               

                              OK- so the annuity guy - the annuity is based on the casah option value, even though it is an annuity -  meaning that had he convinced the other guy to also go for the annuity, the prize wopuld have been $11,000,000 more.

                              So I'm still a little foggy on why someone would want annuity based on the cash value prize - the lottery commission gets the best of both worlds.

                              So in essence, what has happened here is that they both get the cash option value dollar amount, and the annuity guy decided to take that in the form of an annuity. Why would anyone do that?

                              I'm sure anyone reading this thread that would be involved in setting up a charter for a trust for pool group play beofre a hit (just in case of a hit) would make sure to have everyone involved specify annuity or cash option - one or the other for everyone, and that would be that.

                              In other words, "if we hit do we want annuity or cash option - oneway or the other, has to be unanimous."