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Illinois Lottery adds new feature to numbers games

Topic closed. 69 replies. Last post 3 years ago by jamella724.

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RedStang's avatar - tallman zps6gf4inoc.jpg
NY
United States
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January 21, 2012
3157 Posts
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Posted: September 1, 2013, 6:45 pm - IP Logged

Yes, Fireball Roberts was a winner.

    Jon D's avatar - calotterylogo
    Los Angeles, California
    United States
    Member #103813
    January 5, 2011
    1530 Posts
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    Posted: September 1, 2013, 9:10 pm - IP Logged

    Scam. They carefully word it to make it seem like a deal.

    You pay $1 for a 50 cent ($250) wager with Fireball. That brings average return of 37.5 cents.

    Or pay $1 for a 1 dollar wager ($500) without Fireball and get an average return of 50 cents.

    My first figure omits additional $$$, but one of your numbers will only match the Fireball 5% of the time, so the "bonus winnings" are rare if ever.

    Scam is a pretty harsh word, don't you think? They'd need some serious cojones to sell a new version of a game with more ways to win, but degrade the payout from 50% to 37.5% and think nobody will notice.

    If I'm interpreting the prizes payments correctly, total payout with Fireball is significantly higher. About 61% for Straight and about 57% for Box, compared to the base of 50% and 48% respectively.

    Those additional $$$ bonus winnings are certainly not trivial, nor a "rare if ever" occurrence. They are a near mathematical certainty.

      cbr$'s avatar - maren
      Cordova,Al.
      United States
      Member #104482
      January 15, 2011
      4873 Posts
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      Posted: September 1, 2013, 9:51 pm - IP Logged

      'Fireball' feature now on sale

      Includes video report

      By Todd Northrop

      On Sept. 1, Illinois Lottery retailers will begin offering a new, optional feature called Fireball to its long-standing Pick 3 and Pick 4 daily draw games.

      The new play option provides a chance to obtain more winning combinations.

      The standard Pick 3 and Pick 4 games remain the same, as does the drawing schedule (seven days a week, twice a day) and game ticket price (starts at 50 cents).

      Beginning Sunday, Sept. 1, players have the option to add Fireball for a cost equivalent to the player's original base wager.  For example, if someone wagers 50 cents on Pick 3 and adds the Fireball option, the cost of adding this option is an additional 50 cents (or $1 total cost).

      A player does not have to select Fireball to play or win the Pick 3 and Pick 4 games.  If someone chooses to play Fireball, the choice applies to all games contained on a single play slip.

      "The Illinois Lottery launched these games over 30 years ago, and today we feel that it is time to refresh Pick 3 and Pick 4 to increase the winning experience for our players," said Francesco Parola, VP of Sales and Marketing for Northstar Lottery Group.  "Ultimately, we want to appeal to more people across Illinois to play exciting games like Pick 3 and Pick 4.  We will support this new feature with a statewide marketing campaign that kicks off September 1."

      How it Works

      A single Fireball drawing is held after each Pick 3 and Pick 4 drawing.  For each Fireball drawing, one ball is selected, which can be either a numbered ball or an unnumbered ball.

      When a numbered Fireball ball is drawn, the number on that ball may be used to replace any one of the numbers drawn in the preceding Pick 3 or Pick 4 drawing to create winning combinations.

      If the Fireball number is the same as one of the player's numbers, and the player's numbers match the numbers drawn for the player's play style, a bonus prize will be awarded.  For example, if a player wagered 1-2-3 straight and those same numbers were drawn in the regular Pick 3 drawing, they could win yet another straight prize payout if the Fireball number was 1, 2, or 3, because replacing one of the numbers drawn with the same Fireball number would result in another straight win.

      The Fireball ball is drawn from a pool of numbered and unnumbered balls (10 numbered balls 0–9 and 10 unnumbered balls for Pick 3; 10 numbered balls 0–9 and 20 unnumbered balls for Pick 4).  If an unnumbered ball is drawn for Fireball, there is no additional opportunity to win prizes in that draw.  When a numbered Fireball ball is selected it does not guarantee a cash prize will result — you still have to match one the number combination on your ticket using the Fireball number as a replacement for any one number in the drawing results.

      You can only win a prize using the Fireball number if you purchase the Fireball option when you buy your lottery ticket.

      The winning numbers, including the Fireball number, will be displayed on Lottery Post's Illinois Lottery Results page soon after each drawing.  The drawings will continue to take place at 12:40 p.m. and 9:22 p.m. and will be broadcast live on WGN TV.  Overall odds of winning a Pick 3 or Pick 4 prize vary based on the type of wager.

      Play slips used for the old Pick 3 and Pick 4 games will not work for the new games.  New play slips will be available by September 1 at all Illinois Lottery retailers that sell Pick 3 and Pick 4.

      VIDEO: How to play with the new Fireball feature

      qqkuJR7ITvcIllinois Lottery Pick 3 and Pick 4 plus FireballDescribes how the new Illinois Lottery Fireball feature works with the Pick 3 and Pick 4 games.T2M49Shttp://img.youtube.com/vi/qqkuJR7ITvc/3.jpghttps://youtu.be/qqkuJR7ITvc2013-09-01T11:53:00-05:00

      This new option of playing with Fireball, really will increase interest of old & new players of Ill. pic3 and 4 game. After 30 years it could use a small make .

        Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
        Chief Bottle Washer
        New Jersey
        United States
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        May 31, 2000
        23260 Posts
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        Posted: September 1, 2013, 10:21 pm - IP Logged

        Just so everyone is aware, when the first Pick 3 drawing with Fireball was drawn this afternoon, the Illinois Lottery published the results as a "blank" (non-numbered) Fireball.  It seems that was not correct, because sometime this afternoon or this evening they changed it from "blank" to a Fireball number 9.

        Naturally, the Illinois Lottery Results page at LP has been updated with the correction.

        The midday Pick 4 Fireball drawing is still showing as a blank however, so I assume that is correct.

         

        Check the State Lottery Report Card
        What grade did your lottery earn?

         

        Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
        Help eliminate computerized drawings!

          Coin Toss's avatar - shape barbed.jpg
          Zeta Reticuli Star System
          United States
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          January 17, 2006
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          Posted: September 1, 2013, 10:44 pm - IP Logged

          Tonights drawings were a blank and a blank.

          The non numbered balls are blue and the caller said........."I'm so sorry..."

          Northstar, the private firm that took over the runinng of the Illinois lottery, has a knack for turning $1 games into $2 games, granted at the player's  option, so far anyway.

          Someone here on LP not long ago said that Northstar just wasn't making the money for the lottery that they promised, that could very well be the motivation for these addittions to these games.

          Those who run the lotteries love it when players look for consistency in something that's designed not to have any.

          Lep

          There is one and only one 'proven' system, and that is to book the action. No matter the game, let the players pick their own losers.

            mypiemaster's avatar - 2015021003pileofcash
            JACKPOT HUNTER

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            April 2, 2013
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            Posted: September 1, 2013, 11:15 pm - IP Logged

            Just so everyone is aware, when the first Pick 3 drawing with Fireball was drawn this afternoon, the Illinois Lottery published the results as a "blank" (non-numbered) Fireball.  It seems that was not correct, because sometime this afternoon or this evening they changed it from "blank" to a Fireball number 9.

            Naturally, the Illinois Lottery Results page at LP has been updated with the correction.

            The midday Pick 4 Fireball drawing is still showing as a blank however, so I assume that is correct.

            This is definitely, not a credibility, or a confidence enhancer.  Conspiracy theorists are going to have a field day with this. My main concern is, why so many blank balls, instead of just one blank ball, to help represent the field of 0-9. The closer one looks at this, the more apparent it appears, that something really fishy is going on. A blatant effort designed to RIPOFF the consumers, most of the time.

            Seek and ye shall find -Matt. 7:7 ...Ask and ye shall receive -John 16:24 ...Give and it shall be given unto you -Luke 6:38 ...Be careful what you ask for!!! -Mypiemaster 1:1

            Having Money Solves Problems That Not Having Money Creates Yes Nod ****John Carlton****

              cbr$'s avatar - maren
              Cordova,Al.
              United States
              Member #104482
              January 15, 2011
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              Posted: September 1, 2013, 11:29 pm - IP Logged

              Now, that the first human error has happen in the Fireball drawing . I  know I'm going to be watching both drawing on WGN.

                Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
                Chief Bottle Washer
                New Jersey
                United States
                Member #1
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                Posted: September 1, 2013, 11:33 pm - IP Logged

                This is definitely, not a credibility, or a confidence enhancer.  Conspiracy theorists are going to have a field day with this. My main concern is, why so many blank balls, instead of just one blank ball, to help represent the field of 0-9. The closer one looks at this, the more apparent it appears, that something really fishy is going on. A blatant effort designed to RIPOFF the consumers, most of the time.

                Well, I think the question is, if you're going to spend an extra 50 cents, is it better to spend it on another pick or on the Fireball.  You could be right, it could be a ripoff.  Or you could be wrong.  Honestly, I don't know the answer because the odds calculation on the Fireball is a little too complex for me.  That's why I said earlier that the answer really requires a mathematician, or at least someone who could compare the odds.

                 

                Check the State Lottery Report Card
                What grade did your lottery earn?

                 

                Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
                Help eliminate computerized drawings!

                  Lotto Geek's avatar - thelottogeekball
                  New Member

                  United States
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                  April 22, 2013
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                  Posted: September 2, 2013, 12:56 am - IP Logged

                  This is a pretty ingenious idea.   I fear, though, that a lot of people are going to get confused by this. Even I'm a little sketchy on the details. Looks like I'm going to have to get the ol' blog going again.

                  You know where to find me.

                    Avatar
                    Kentucky
                    United States
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                    February 14, 2006
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                    Posted: September 2, 2013, 1:00 am - IP Logged

                    Well, I think the question is, if you're going to spend an extra 50 cents, is it better to spend it on another pick or on the Fireball.  You could be right, it could be a ripoff.  Or you could be wrong.  Honestly, I don't know the answer because the odds calculation on the Fireball is a little too complex for me.  That's why I said earlier that the answer really requires a mathematician, or at least someone who could compare the odds.

                    When a numbered Fireball ball is drawn, the number on that ball may be used to replace any one of the numbers drawn in the preceding Pick 3 or Pick 4 drawing to create winning combinations.

                    If the Fireball number is the same as one of the player's numbers, and the player's numbers match the numbers drawn for the player's play style, a bonus prize will be awarded.  For example, if a player wagered 1-2-3 straight and those same numbers were drawn in the regular Pick 3 drawing, they could win yet another straight prize payout if the Fireball number was 1, 2, or 3, because replacing one of the numbers drawn with the same Fireball number would result in another straight win.

                    From the first sentence it looks like if a player wagered on 124 straight and 123 was drawn they could still collect the Fireball prize if 4 is drawn. And it should be the same if 124 was a box bet. The extra bet gives a player a 1 in 20 chance of winning the second bet if they correctly match two digits. To win twice a player must correctly pick the winning combination and beat the 3 in 20 chances of matching the Fireball.

                    If the idea is to win twice, the player gets better odds by betting the same combination twice and not use Fireball. If the idea is to create a winning bet out of a losing bet, the Fireball chances are 1 in 20. Since the player is required to match two digits, betting on front pair (12-all), back pair (all-24), and outside pair (1-all-4) might be an option using Fireball providing a blank isn't drawn.

                    With a 50/50 chance of drawing a blank and if they keep drawing blanks, encouraging players to wager on Fireball will be very difficult.

                      Coin Toss's avatar - shape barbed.jpg
                      Zeta Reticuli Star System
                      United States
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                      Posted: September 2, 2013, 1:15 am - IP Logged

                      Stack,

                      This tells any aware player all they have to know:

                      The Fireball ball is drawn from a pool of numbered and unnumbered balls (10 numbered balls 0–9 and 10 unnumbered balls for Pick 3; 10 numbered balls 0–9 and 20 unnumbered balls for Pick 4). 

                      On the Pick 3 it's 10 and 10, on the Pick 4 10 and 20.......the house has 2 to 1 the best of it on the Fireball.

                      THANKS FOR PLAYING, CHUMP.

                      Consider what this Northstar group did with the Illiois Pick 5, formerly Little Lotto now Lucky Day Lotto. For an extra dollar you can play Ez Match and if one of your Pick 5 numbers matches one of the five Ez Match numbers you win $1 to $500. The odds against winning $500 are 210,000:1. Hello, just put the addittional dollar on another Pick 5 ticket, $100,000 progressive.

                      These guys are marketers and self-promoters but not really doing much for the players.

                      Dear Northstar,

                      Here's an idea. Since there are going to be four Fireballs a day, and some of them will be blanks (most of them in the Pick 4), offer a side bet of the days Fireballs. (Wonder what the odds on this one would be, 0-9 plus 30 blanks to figure!)

                      Today's result was 9 _ _ _.

                      People could play the side bet just like Pick 4, straight, straight box, etc....and also a bet on the total would be interesting, too. Another side bet could be one number, three blanks, all blanks, all numbers, etc....

                      Sincerely,

                      Coin Toss, LP

                      Wink

                      Those who run the lotteries love it when players look for consistency in something that's designed not to have any.

                      Lep

                      There is one and only one 'proven' system, and that is to book the action. No matter the game, let the players pick their own losers.

                        Jon D's avatar - calotterylogo
                        Los Angeles, California
                        United States
                        Member #103813
                        January 5, 2011
                        1530 Posts
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                        Posted: September 2, 2013, 2:00 am - IP Logged

                        Well, I think the question is, if you're going to spend an extra 50 cents, is it better to spend it on another pick or on the Fireball.  You could be right, it could be a ripoff.  Or you could be wrong.  Honestly, I don't know the answer because the odds calculation on the Fireball is a little too complex for me.  That's why I said earlier that the answer really requires a mathematician, or at least someone who could compare the odds.

                        From the way I read it and saw in the video, there are 4 chances to win when you play plus Fireball. The base prize, plus up to 3 additional prizes if a matching Fireball comes up to for a match in the 3 different positions. But you can only get 4 prizes (base plus 3 bonus) if you played a triple, and up to 3 prizes with a double, and up to 2 prizes with a single. Like they have shown for today:

                        I looked at the Straight prize, given the various scenarios, and the total payout for the game increases from base 50% return to 61% when the plus Fireball is played. I have also checked this with a simulation which shows 61-62% return with any number type. Box is a little more complicated so I just estimated that, could be around 54-57% return compared to 48% return for regular P3 box. And with the potential for all the extra matches and prizes, they actually needed to add the 10 blank balls otherwise the game would payout 100% total!(zero profit)

                        IL Pick 3$1 
                        NumberCombosStyleOdds 1 inPrizePayoutReturnOccursShareTotal
                        Single1Straight1000$50050.00%50.00%72%36.00%
                        Double1Straight1000$50050.00%50.00%27%13.50%
                        Triple1Straight1000$50050.00%50.00%10%5.00%50.00%
                        Single6Box167$8048.00%48.00%72%34.56%
                        Double3Box333$16048.00%48.00%27%12.96%48.00%
                        IL Pick 3 Fireball$1 
                        NumberCombosStyleOdds 1 inBonusPayoutReturnOccursShareTotal
                        Single1Straight667$50075.00%50.00%72%36.00%
                        Double1Straight667$1,000150.00%100.00%27%27.00%
                        Triple1Straight667$1,500225.00%150.00%10%15.00%71.56%
                        Single6Box111$8072.00%48.00%72%34.56%
                        Double3Box222$320144.00%96.00%27%25.92%61.09%
                        IL Pick 3 plus Fireball$2 
                        NumberCombosStyleOdds 1 inPrizePayoutReturnOccursShareTotal
                        Single1Straight1000$1,000100.00%50.00%72%36.00%
                        Double1Straight1000$1,500150.00%75.00%27%20.25%
                        Triple1Straight1000$2,000200.00%100.00%10%10.00%60.78%
                        Single6Box167$16096.00%48.00%72%34.56%
                        Double3Box333$480144.00%72.00%27%19.44%54.55%

                        Looks very interesting. Will be curious to see actual payouts players are getting.

                          Abdi's avatar - Lottery-008.jpg
                          Nairobi
                          Kenya
                          Member #64806
                          September 8, 2008
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                          Posted: September 2, 2013, 4:59 am - IP Logged

                          i don't this is a good idea,this will creat confussion.

                          I Agree!

                          There are no born heroes or winners........it takes a hammer a chisel,a vision and a will to suffer the blows and be carved into one!..........

                            JAP69's avatar - alas
                            South Carolina
                            United States
                            Member #6
                            November 4, 2001
                            8790 Posts
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                            Posted: September 2, 2013, 9:08 am - IP Logged

                            In the case of the pick 3 a player would only need to focus on getting two numbers exact or box on the ticket and then take the chance of a fireball being drawn. Pick two numbers in your selection and throw any number in for the third ball.

                            All low pair

                            all high pair

                            one low one high pair.

                            WHATT

                              JAP69's avatar - alas
                              South Carolina
                              United States
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                              November 4, 2001
                              8790 Posts
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                              Posted: September 2, 2013, 11:06 am - IP Logged

                              In the case of the pick 3 a player would only need to focus on getting two numbers exact or box on the ticket and then take the chance of a fireball being drawn. Pick two numbers in your selection and throw any number in for the third ball.

                              All low pair

                              all high pair

                              one low one high pair.

                              Only a sample of how I would approach the fireball game taking the chance on a red ball being drawn.

                              Run some combos like this example in an exact order of your choice and take your chance on a fireball number being drawn.
                              Only four ways a pick 3 can fall using low pairs or high pairs.
                              all low
                              all high
                              one low two high
                              two low one high

                              An example of combinations without duplicating low pairs or high pairs
                              01234
                              combo_ pairs
                              012__ 01 02 12
                              034__ 03 04 34
                              135__ 13 15 35
                              146__ 14 16 46
                              237__ 23 27 37
                              248__ 24 28 48

                              low pair 01 02 03 04 12 13 14 23 24 34
                              low high 15 16 27 28 35 37 46 48 

                              ____________________________
                              56789
                              combo_ pairs
                              567__ 56 57 67
                              589__ 58 59 89
                              680__ 06 08 68
                              693__ 36 39 69
                              781__ 17 18 78
                              790__ 07 09 79
                               
                              high pair 56 57 58 59 67 68 69 78 79 89
                              low high  06 07 08 09 17 18 36 39

                              WHATT