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Group buys every Pick 3 lottery combination and wins

Aug 9, 2004, 8:19 am

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Insider BuzzInsider Buzz: Group buys every Pick 3 lottery combination and wins

Pick a number, every number.

That's how Ken Seidel and a few St. Louis-area buddies seized the opportunity to make a Missouri Lottery game a nearly sure thing.

The numbers the lottery drew in Thursday's midday Pick 3 game were 4-5-2 in the regular drawing and 1-4-4 in a bonus drawing that Seidel says guaranteed him a 20 percent return on the $23,000 of chances he and his friends bought, at $1 a pop.

That's an easy $4,600 profit.

The daily Pick 3 drawing allows players to choose three numbers from 0-0-0 to 9-9-9, with each winning ticket worth $600.

Seidel's payout was the result of a four-week lottery promotion that made a second drawing possible. One of seven balls six white, one orange is drawn each day, until the orange ball is selected. But if all the white balls have been pulled, a guaranteed double-draw is in the works, because only the orange remains.

Thus, someone who spent $1,000 to cover all possible winning numbers would win $600 on the first drawing and $600 on the second drawing.

There's usually no guarantee the orange ball will be drawn on a particular day, but over the previous week, the white balls had been plucked out one by one. Early Wednesday afternoon, the last white ball was drawn, leaving just the orange ball for Thursday.

I knew the orange ball would have to come up, so I went to work, Seidel said.

He called some friends and tried to enlist the help of a few co-workers and others.

Overnight, they filled out thousands of entries with every possible winning number from 0-0-0 to 9-9-9.

They did it over and over until Seidel and his three friends had put $23,000 into his plan. They bought their last ticket about a minute and a half before the cutoff.

St. Louis Post-Dispatch

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35 comments. Last comment 16 years ago by CASH Only.
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Jake649's avatar - scene sunovermountains.jpg

Canada
Member #2673
November 2, 2003
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Posted: August 9, 2004, 8:53 am - IP Logged

The downside to the group's scheme is that lottery wins of $600 or more have to be claimed at a lottery office and are subject to taxation. The 20% profit may turn out to be a loss unless the group can demonstrate that by year-end, they lost more than they won.

Good luck,
Jake


    United States
    Member #3676
    February 10, 2004
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    Posted: August 9, 2004, 12:51 pm - IP Logged

    Just take single tickets to different stores to get around that problem.

      Benjamin'04's avatar - dude
      Michigan
      United States
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      July 27, 2004
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      Posted: August 9, 2004, 12:57 pm - IP Logged

      thats pretty lame...i didn't know it cost that much to play all combo's....thats a cop-out strategy if u ask me....i'd understand though if they won more then the 1,000 bucks the spend, just goes to show that lottery administrators think about those types of things

      Ben..Ben..Ben...If U wanna see those Benjamins it is imperative U play smart

      Peace, Godluck

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        nassau bahamas
        United States
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        Posted: August 9, 2004, 1:06 pm - IP Logged

        hi there ben thanks for the advice earlier i played all my numbers in georgia midday came in good with the 000 for 50 cents thanks again needed it badly


          United States
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          Posted: August 9, 2004, 3:01 pm - IP Logged

          Are you serious ?  This guy has the smartest brains of any lottery player out there.  He played WHEN THE ODDS WERE IN HIS FAVOR.  What a novel concept!  To bash a guy for making a sure 20% on his money playing a game that only pays back 60% is ludicrous.  States offer this promotion all the time and I bet you could go from state to state doing this, but you wouild have to find it in the states that pay 600 per winner oppossed to 500.  To say this is acop out  is the dumbest thing ever.  The guy guarenteed a profit for himself, how many lottery players can say that??

            Jake649's avatar - scene sunovermountains.jpg

            Canada
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            Posted: August 9, 2004, 3:13 pm - IP Logged
            Quote: Originally posted by qutgnt on August 09, 2004


            Just take single tickets to different stores to get around that problem.



            That would not work because a single winning ticket pays $600 and the stores are only allowed to redeem up to $599.

            Good luck,
            Jake

              RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
              50
              mid-Ohio
              United States
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              Posted: August 9, 2004, 3:29 pm - IP Logged

              Ohio has the Red Ball promotion going on for its Pick3 game, but it doesn't pay double and a straight only pays $500 on a dollar bet.  Missouri must really want people to try their Pick3 game.

              RJOh

               * you don't need to buy every combination, just the winning ones * 

              Thumbs Up       

                Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
                50
                Chief Bottle Washer
                New Jersey
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                Posted: August 9, 2004, 3:56 pm - IP Logged

                Check this out, the guy who thinks he beat the system really lost money!

                Let's just take one of his $1,000 bets.  Keep in mind that he did it 23 times (to reach the $23,000 figure indicated in the article).

                He bets $1,000 for all 1,000 combinations.  Then he wins $600 twice, for a total of $1,200, or $200 profit.  Or so he thinks.

                But because each winning ticket is worth $600, he must redeem them at lottery headquarters, whereupon they will hold back 25% federal tax, plus 4% Missouri state tax.  That amounts to $348 in taxes.

                Hence, his $1,200 winnings are quickly reduced to $852.  So he spent $1,000 to "win" $852, resulting in a $148 net loss.

                Multiply that loss by 23 times, and the group lost a total of $3,404.

                Now, maybe this is all moot.  He would have saved himself big-time if he played .50 bets per betslip, whereupon each winning ticket would be $300, and could be redeemed at a lottery retailer.  However, the article didn't imply this.

                 

                Check the State Lottery Report Card
                What grade did your lottery earn?

                 

                Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
                Help eliminate computerized drawings!


                  United States
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                  Posted: August 9, 2004, 4:00 pm - IP Logged

                  Todd:

                  Federal withholding begins above $5000, not at $600.

                    RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
                    50
                    mid-Ohio
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                    Posted: August 9, 2004, 4:10 pm - IP Logged
                    Quote: Originally posted by Todd on August 09, 2004



                    Now, maybe this is all moot.  He would have saved himself big-time if he played .50 bets per betslip, whereupon each winning ticket would be $300, and could be redeemed at a lottery retailer.  However, the article didn't imply this.







                    It would not matter if enough people knew about it that a news article was written about it.  One of the rules of cheating on your taxes is to not talk publicly about it.  Same rule applies if you also find a way to make money playing the lotteries.

                    RJOh 

                     * you don't need to buy every combination, just the winning ones * 

                    Thumbs Up       

                      Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
                      50
                      Chief Bottle Washer
                      New Jersey
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                      Posted: August 9, 2004, 4:15 pm - IP Logged
                      Quote: Originally posted by CASH Only on August 09, 2004



                      Todd:

                      Federal withholding begins above $5000, not at $600.




                      True, but they'll have to pay the federal tax one way or the other.

                       

                      Check the State Lottery Report Card
                      What grade did your lottery earn?

                       

                      Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
                      Help eliminate computerized drawings!


                        United States
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                        February 10, 2004
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                        Posted: August 9, 2004, 9:40 pm - IP Logged

                        In Illinois everything through 600 dollars cvan be claimed at a retailer with no need to go to Lottery Office.  601 and higher you go to fill out a claim form.  I know its the smae in Iowa too so I figure its the same in Mizzou.  If not I stand corrected.

                        But put it this way I am sure the guy made money or the article would have never been written in first place. 
                        And I am sure the guy wouldnt go through all the hassle if he wasnt gonna make the 20% profit.

                          Jake649's avatar - scene sunovermountains.jpg

                          Canada
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                          Posted: August 9, 2004, 10:10 pm - IP Logged
                          Quote: Originally posted by qutgnt on August 09, 2004


                          In Illinois everything through 600 dollars cvan be claimed at a retailer with no need to go to Lottery Office.  601 and higher you go to fill out a claim form.  I know its the smae in Iowa too so I figure its the same in Mizzou.  If not I stand corrected.

                          But put it this way I am sure the guy made money or the article would have never been written in first place. 
                          And I am sure the guy wouldnt go through all the hassle if he wasnt gonna make the 20% profit.






                          I checked the Missouri web site before I posted the first reply to the news story. Prizes of $599 or less can be claimed at a store, $600 and above at the lottery office.

                          The scheme still has value if they can claim losses in excess of the win and not have to pay tax. Their expenses (losses) were $23,000. That is a good start. They just need another $4,000 in losses to claim to cover the rest.

                          Good luck,
                          Jake

                            Best Picks's avatar - Lottery-036.jpg
                            Eastern Missouri
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                            Posted: August 9, 2004, 10:32 pm - IP Logged

                            My 1st thought - was why am I reading this in the newspaper. Althought I did win that day, I did not think to that extreme to cover all the possible combos (money not that long).

                            2nd thought - was since I can to any retailer and get $600( says on the back of the playslip prizes up to and including $600 paid at any on-line retailer) why would I go one single store like Dierbergs' to get my money. thousands though it maybe {4 days later I would still be collecting}

                            3rd thought - the point was to out wit the lottery, why tell them what I did, so they can get smart and not let it happen again ( an orange ball was drawn 2 days later, when it took 7 the previous time) hummmm    How soon before the next orange ball shows?

                            You can bet on this winner --- we will not be able to know of a sure win again, like we did on this one. And all be because he had to tell.

                            Numbers.