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# johnph77...where did your learn math ?

Topic closed. 34 replies. Last post 11 years ago by johnph77.

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United States
Member #21574
September 11, 2005
138 Posts
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 Posted: March 21, 2006, 11:36 pm - IP Logged

Your formulas are WRONG !!!

ANY quantity divided by zero = NOT Defined, Division by ZERO Error, "E" or "e"

and

0! is NOT defined a.k.a INDETERMINATE

Take your factorials and GO BACK to school (!)  <--- (see...factorial...get it ?)

Seoul
Korea, South
Member #21859
September 16, 2005
346 Posts
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 Posted: March 22, 2006, 12:15 am - IP Logged

Is 0! not 1?

Morrison, IL
United States
Member #4657
May 13, 2004
1884 Posts
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 Posted: March 22, 2006, 12:22 am - IP Logged

Yep, 0! = 1. Don't ask me why; that's just the way it is.

United States
Member #21574
September 11, 2005
138 Posts
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 Posted: March 22, 2006, 1:35 am - IP Logged

http://www.zero-factorial.com/whatis.html

Most (NOT all) calculators define 0!=1.   HOWEVER, That is NOT the end of the story. Just because an EMPTY set can be defined ONE way ONLY; does NOT dismiss the fact that ANY quantity MULTIPLIED by zero = ZERO and any quantity DIVIDED by zero is INDETERMINATE. So what comes first ? ... the chicken or the egg ? Can you pin the tail on INFINITY ? .... Of course you can ... in the Twlight Zone.

johnph77 is attempting to demonstrate FRACTIONAL (did i say fractional not factorial ? ... yes i did) relationships of ordered subsets which always follow the strict rules of DIVISION. Apparently, he dreamed up this stuff in some OnShoreFlow (that's FOG to us inland peons).

Unfortunately, the 0! issue aside, his math is...in a word...WRONG !!!

Check out:

Please take your seats...at the FRONT of the class.

MD
United States
Member #1701
June 18, 2003
8363 Posts
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 Posted: March 22, 2006, 1:42 am - IP Logged

Z
+9
+8
+7
+6
+5
+4
+3
+2
+1
X -9 -8 -7 -6 -5 -4 -3 -2 -1 0 +1 +2 +3 +4 +5 +6 +7 +8 +9 Y
-1
-2
-3
-4
-5 XYZ Axis
-6
-7
-8
-9
Z

CA
United States
Member #2987
December 10, 2003
832 Posts
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 Posted: March 22, 2006, 3:43 am - IP Logged

I have no idea what Guess What!'s problem is, and I don't care.

Blessed Saint Leibowitz, keep 'em dreamin' down there.....

Next week's convention for Psychics and Prognosticators has been cancelled due to unforeseen circumstances.

=^.^=

United States
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September 11, 2005
138 Posts
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 Posted: March 22, 2006, 10:38 am - IP Logged

I have no idea what Guess What!'s problem is, and I don't care.

Congratulations,

That's the ONE thing you got right !

You have absolutely "NO IDEA" at all ...

Chief Bottle Washer
New Jersey
United States
Member #1
May 31, 2000
23273 Posts
Online
 Posted: March 22, 2006, 10:56 am - IP Logged

GuessWhat,

Stop posting nasty comments directed at johnph77.  We don't tolerate personal attacks at Lottery Post, and you are clearly turning this into a personal attack, rather than criticisms of ideas.

Why can't you simply question johnph77's math formula, rather than jumping all over him?  If you simply asked a question pleasantly, I'm sure he would be willing to explain his math forumla to you, but instead you chose to post your message like you were addressing an enemy.  That will not get you far in life.

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CA
United States
Member #2987
December 10, 2003
832 Posts
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 Posted: March 22, 2006, 3:24 pm - IP Logged

The following links may be a source of education and enlightenment of why factorial zero (0!) equals 1.

gl

j

Blessed Saint Leibowitz, keep 'em dreamin' down there.....

Next week's convention for Psychics and Prognosticators has been cancelled due to unforeseen circumstances.

=^.^=

United States
Member #21574
September 11, 2005
138 Posts
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 Posted: March 23, 2006, 12:30 am - IP Logged

GuessWhat,

Stop posting nasty comments directed at johnph77.  We don't tolerate personal attacks at Lottery Post, and you are clearly turning this into a personal attack, rather than criticisms of ideas.

Why can't you simply question johnph77's math formula, rather than jumping all over him?  If you simply asked a question pleasantly, I'm sure he would be willing to explain his math forumla to you, but instead you chose to post your message like you were addressing an enemy.  That will not get you far in life.

It's a shame to me that johnph77 see's fit to jump on the 0! DIGRESSING bandwagon.

I'm not interested in seeing 6 links to a trivial issue. I think he knows it and is intentionally ducking the PRIMARY issue. The topic of this post is about his MATH and, as you; Todd, like to put it: I am clearly criticizing his IDEA of math.

Since I appear to be so insensitive in my approach to this issue, and by your account Todd; "...not far in life"; I will gladly indulge the thin-skinned among us and try it your way.

Johnph77:

How did you come up with those fantastic formulas ? I'v NEVER seen them ANYWHERE !

Can and will you quote at least 2 (preferably more) VERIFIABLE, COMPETENT, RELIABLE, AUTHORITIES and otherwise MATHEMATICALLY ACCEPTABLE sources that explains (to dummies like ME) all that I am missing?

Lastly, I apologize to you, Todd and anyone else I most likely have ever offended in my "short distance" life with my poor choice of words. I was raised to believe that a good education equates to opportunity, growth and the epiphany of personal improvement. In other (carefully chosen) words; knowledge is my FRIEND. If ignorance is the opposite of knowledge and an ENEMY is the opposite of a friend; then I have no problem working with my friends as I do and putting my enemies in their rightful place.

CA
United States
Member #2987
December 10, 2003
832 Posts
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 Posted: March 23, 2006, 12:18 pm - IP Logged

Guess What! -

Now that the argument over factorial zero has been settled, please provide mathematical proof that the formulas posted on my site and the calculations derived from them are in error. Should I ask you to quote "at least 2 (preferably more) VERIFIABLE, COMPETENT, RELIABLE, AUTHORITIES and otherwise MATHEMATICALLY ACCEPTABLE sources" for that proof? Do you use different formulas? If so, what are they?

Links to your other posts in this forum do not qualify as "at least 2 (preferably more) VERIFIABLE, COMPETENT, RELIABLE, AUTHORITIES and otherwise MATHEMATICALLY ACCEPTABLE sources".

gl

j

Blessed Saint Leibowitz, keep 'em dreamin' down there.....

Next week's convention for Psychics and Prognosticators has been cancelled due to unforeseen circumstances.

=^.^=

United States
Member #21574
September 11, 2005
138 Posts
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 Posted: March 23, 2006, 2:43 pm - IP Logged

I find it striking that someone who touts him/her/itself as an authority on PERMUTATIONS and COMBINATIONS offers NO PROOF !!!  You don't have to tell me what an expert you are...you have to SHOW me.  I do NOT claim any original research on the subject.  I just apply the basic principles that you, yourself could stand to learn a great deal from:

http://mathforum.org/dr.math/faq/faq.comb.perm.html

http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Permutation.html

56!
----------- * 46 = 175,711,536 : 1      5/56 & 1/46
5!(56-5)!

Want verification ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permutation  see "Counting permutations"

Now that is PROOF.  Want MORE ?

http://www.mathagonyaunt.co.uk/STATISTICS/ESP/Perms_combs.html

see "Combinations"

What does your math prove?  (assuming the ambiguous 0!=1)

((5!/0!)/(5!))x((51!/51!)/(0!)) = 1    SO WHAT ?!?!?

Show me this dribble in a VERIFIABLE, COMPETENT, RELIABLE and otherwise MATHEMATICALLY ACCEPTABLE source.

ANY source will do because it does NOT exist...except for your fevered imagination of course...OOPS!, sorry, there I go again, shooting my mouth off about IGNORANCE peddled for truth; I consider an "enemy" to learning.

Now, if your math brings you comfort; then go (someplace else) in peace.

I come to this site for, as Todd puts it; (an exchange of) "ideas".  An idea may begin as an opinion which is either proven as fact or dismissed as fantasy.  There is NO fantasy when it comes to math.  REAL math.    I have asked you to provide PROOF of your math.  You continue to choose to DUCK the issue.    You are certainly a better politician than mathematician.  As for me, I'm just a follower of VERIFIABLE, COMPETENT, RELIABLE and otherwise MATHEMATICALLY ACCEPTABLE authority.  Unless and until you PROVE differently, I will file your math "idea" under the distinguished heading of "SNAKE OIL"

 snake oil noun Definitions: 1. worthless medicine: any worthless liquid preparation sold as a medicine, especially in the past by traveling peddlers 2. deceiving words: something said or written with the intention of deceiving, pacifying, or persuading others

FEMA Region V Camp #21
United States
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July 27, 2002
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 Posted: March 23, 2006, 2:59 pm - IP Logged

I told my lottery agent I wanted 0-0-0 today and he gave me a ticket with 0-0-0. I told him, "No I wanted 0! 0! 0!"

He escorted me out of the store by the ear.

I came home and my wife asked me how many times I've cheated on her. I told her "0!". She screamed, "You cheated on me once?!!" She kicked me out of the house on my butt.

IMHO, 0 = 0 no matter what punctuation mark you put after, before, over or under it. The digit 0 and value of 0 was a breakthrough in the history of mathematics and now we are changing its value with punctuation marks? It doesn't make sense to me. If 0! = 1 then why can't we just put a 1 in the formula?

Guess I'm just dumb, but I'll stick with the old school math.

Posted 4/6:  IL Pick 3 midday and evening until they hit:  555, 347 (str8).

mid-Ohio
United States
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March 24, 2001
19830 Posts
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 Posted: March 23, 2006, 3:30 pm - IP Logged

Fortunately, you don't have to be a mathematician or smart to play the lottery.  When I read posts of lottery players who say they are making a living playing the lotteries, I'm convinced some of them don't understand the concept of zero either.

* you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket *

Chief Bottle Washer
New Jersey
United States
Member #1
May 31, 2000
23273 Posts
Online
 Posted: March 23, 2006, 4:11 pm - IP Logged

This has turned out to be an interesting discussion.  Rick, that was too funny!

GuessWhat, thanks for changing the discussion into one that focuses on the idea, rather than the person who put forth the idea.

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