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The possibilities for fraud in RNG games

Topic closed. 64 replies. Last post 10 years ago by Rip Snorter.

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Do you believe there's a significant chance:

One, or more states have rigged RNG games? [ 2 ]  [5.71%]
All RNG games are probably rigged [ 9 ]  [25.71%]
No state would do such a thing. [ 1 ]  [2.86%]
'Business' friends draw straws to see who wins? [ 0 ]  [0.00%]
RNG computers are a fig-newton of the imagination [ 1 ]  [2.86%]
Some states are probably honest sometimes [ 0 ]  [0.00%]
A majority of states run honest games [ 4 ]  [11.43%]
Not possible to assure an honest game with RNG [ 8 ]  [22.86%]
Possible to run an honest RNG game, but unlikely [ 5 ]  [14.29%]
Who are you kidding? I don't play RNG. [ 5 ]  [14.29%]
Total Valid Votes [ 35 ]  
Discarded Votes [ 9 ]  
Clairvoyance's avatar - eye storm.jpg

United States
Member #26882
November 23, 2005
1404 Posts
Offline
Posted: July 14, 2006, 2:11 pm - IP Logged

Remember when your Dad put a quarter in his hand and put his hands behind his back and asked "What hand is it in?" You picked one hand but the quarter was always in the other hand. Never could guess it right. After a while the old man wanted to play that game on you again and you said, "No way...it's a boring game because you always win and I hate you!" And you stomped up to your room never wanting to play the hidden quarter game again...not even with YOUR kids.

Not the Coin game! My dad used to put his hands behind his back and drop the quarter in his pocket so it was not in either hand let alone the hand you picked! A prankster he is!

Just Like PA Mid Day Draw you just can't win no mater what hand you pick!

    lotterybraker's avatar - pyramid
    mississippi
    United States
    Member #34478
    March 3, 2006
    5903 Posts
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    Posted: July 14, 2006, 2:20 pm - IP Logged

    Well..I would like to voice my opinion on this matter..I have cycled both Ball Machines and states with RNG..I can assure you that it doesnt matter which one it is..doesnt mean onething at all..and you can use these examples ..South Carolina pic 3..5 hits in 7 days using the cycle  Ball Machine..Missouri 15 hits in 22 days I think it was and they have a RNG..so it doesnt matter what they are using..numbers are cyclical..if you pic one that is in the cycle you can get it..if you pic one that is not in the present cycle..FORGET IT..it aint coming..

    "Attention all Mathematicians: Check your degree at the door because when it comes to whole numbers you are the Amateur"

      four4me's avatar - gate1
      MD
      United States
      Member #1701
      June 18, 2003
      8359 Posts
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      Posted: July 14, 2006, 2:37 pm - IP Logged

      Remember when your Dad put a quarter in his hand and put his hands behind his back and asked "What hand is it in?" You picked one hand but the quarter was always in the other hand. Never could guess it right. After a while the old man wanted to play that game on you again and you said, "No way...it's a boring game because you always win and I hate you!" And you stomped up to your room never wanting to play the hidden quarter game again...not even with YOUR kids.

      Not the Coin game! My dad used to put his hands behind his back and drop the quarter in his pocket so it was not in either hand let alone the hand you picked! A prankster he is!

      Just Like PA Mid Day Draw you just can’t win no mater what hand you pick!

      well 550 other people would dispute that

      PA pick 3

      Fri, July 14, 2006
      Daily Number (DAY): 335
      $0.50 Straight bet pays $250.00
      $0.50 Boxed bet pays $80.00
      550 winners for a total of $82,500.00


      P4 349 winners

      Fri, July 14, 2006
      Big 4 (DAY): 6611
      $0.50 Straight bet pays $2,500.00
      $0.50 Boxed bet pays $400.00
      349 winners for a total of $192,100.00

        LOTTOMIKE's avatar - cash money.jpg
        Tennessee
        United States
        Member #7853
        October 15, 2004
        11338 Posts
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        Posted: July 14, 2006, 2:43 pm - IP Logged

        bellyache you have my vote for the sexiest avatar on lottery post...Big Smile

        maybe i need to do a new poll about it....

          lotterybraker's avatar - pyramid
          mississippi
          United States
          Member #34478
          March 3, 2006
          5903 Posts
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          Posted: July 14, 2006, 2:45 pm - IP Logged

          Mike I might agree with you on that one..now that I noticed it..lol..

          "Attention all Mathematicians: Check your degree at the door because when it comes to whole numbers you are the Amateur"

            Rick G's avatar - avatar 1766.jpg
            FEMA Region V Camp #21
            United States
            Member #520
            July 27, 2002
            5699 Posts
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            Posted: July 14, 2006, 2:46 pm - IP Logged

            Remember when your Dad put a quarter in his hand and put his hands behind his back and asked "What hand is it in?" You picked one hand but the quarter was always in the other hand. Never could guess it right. After a while the old man wanted to play that game on you again and you said, "No way...it's a boring game because you always win and I hate you!" And you stomped up to your room never wanting to play the hidden quarter game again...not even with YOUR kids.

            Not the Coin game! My dad used to put his hands behind his back and drop the quarter in his pocket so it was not in either hand let alone the hand you picked! A prankster he is!

            Just Like PA Mid Day Draw you just can’t win no mater what hand you pick!

            Barb,

            That's downright abuse. I used to abuse my kids by pulling the quarter out of the ear. They're still in therapy but the doctor says they'll come to love and trust again...it just might take a few years.

            Posted 4/6:  IL Pick 3 midday and evening until they hit:  555, 347 (str8).


              LOTTOMIKE's avatar - cash money.jpg
              Tennessee
              United States
              Member #7853
              October 15, 2004
              11338 Posts
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              Posted: July 14, 2006, 2:47 pm - IP Logged

              oops family entertainment,i don't know if junior and pops are eating honey smacks and washing down a glass of milk saying to each other now son i'm going to tell ya about the birds and the bees and the flowers and the trees and bellyaches avatar,lol.just messin' with you bellyache.having a laugh.you definitely one of my favorite posters here.

                Avatar
                New Mexico
                United States
                Member #12305
                March 10, 2005
                2984 Posts
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                Posted: July 14, 2006, 3:13 pm - IP Logged

                Well..I would like to voice my opinion on this matter..I have cycled both Ball Machines and states with RNG..I can assure you that it doesnt matter which one it is..doesnt mean onething at all..and you can use these examples ..South Carolina pic 3..5 hits in 7 days using the cycle  Ball Machine..Missouri 15 hits in 22 days I think it was and they have a RNG..so it doesnt matter what they are using..numbers are cyclical..if you pic one that is in the cycle you can get it..if you pic one that is not in the present cycle..FORGET IT..it aint coming..

                Lottobraker:

                I love to be assured of stuff.

                I might be wrong, but I have a notion there's going to be a little party tonight down at the YESTERDAY DRAWS page for Thursday, July 14, along about midnight.

                Maybe we can talk about cycles and stuff then and you can assure me some other things.  On RNG I think you are certainly correct .... at least sometimes you are.  Might be.  Possible, anyway.

                On the other hand, if the party doesn't happen, I'll come back and read this and maybe be more assured.

                Gracias,

                J

                Absorb the good, ignore the bad, weigh the ugly.

                It's about number behavior.

                Egos don't count.

                 

                Dedicated to the memory of Big Loooser

                 

                  Avatar
                  NY
                  United States
                  Member #23835
                  October 16, 2005
                  3471 Posts
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                  Posted: July 14, 2006, 3:44 pm - IP Logged

                  Oregon, on July 4th drew 1-7-7-6

                  Now, that would lead me to suspect one of two things... Either numbers have some sort of intellegence and awareness of the years of historical events, or somebody rigged that drawing.

                  I can't say that it's absolutely impossible that the draw would come out as it did, but I would think it would have taken a few million more draws for it to do so.

                  As a novice programmer, I can't help but suspect that that drawing was rigged to benefit one person, maybe two people knew it beforehand.

                  I'm not ready to believe that lottery balls are aware of what number is painted on them. You could, however, convince me that the balls exhibit a bias as to their draw frequency.

                  But, the RNG is a whole nuther animal and I just don't trust it.

                  It would lead me to expect that we have reasonable proof that in Oregon, either the game isn't rigged or the people rigging it are extremely stupid. If you could choose the number that was drawn, would you be stupid enough to choose one that had any obvious significance? I'm guessing that on July 4th the number of people who play 1776 is a lot higher than on any other day of the year, so it certainly wouldn't be in the interest of the state to deliberately draw 1776.

                  As far as the probability of it happening randomly in any given state, there are 10,000 possible numbers, so you'd expect each one of them, including 1776, to come up once every 10,000 times there is a drawing.That's a long ways from absolutely impossible. Where do you get a few million with only 10,000 possibilities?

                  Now consider the numbers that others states drew. Would the significance change if Oregon had drawn 2710 and it was Indiana  or Massachusetts that drew 1776?  I don't know how many states do two drawings per day, but let's figure there are about 45 pick 4 drawings each day and that results in about 40 different numbers. That's 40 chances for 1 of those numbers to be 1776 or any other number you might  consider significant. That means there's roughly a 1 in 250 chance for 1776 to be drawn on any given day.

                  The odds were still against it, but it's not nearly as much of a long shot as you think.

                    Avatar
                    NY
                    United States
                    Member #23835
                    October 16, 2005
                    3471 Posts
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                    Posted: July 14, 2006, 3:51 pm - IP Logged

                    They have a computer system that records your bets or issues you quick picks that are recorded and when the day is over that same computer system is picking the winning numbers. C'mon...we're not that stupid. Really. We might be lottery players but there's very few stupid ones amongst us.

                    Among the most basic steps a state would take in running a game where the numbers are drawn by computer would be using an independent computer to draw the numbers, but if there really was a conspiracy to favor numbers that were played it would be easy enough to check the computer that manages the database and then use that information to manipulate the drawing. Of course it would have to be a widespread conspiracy because the programmer(s) would have to be involved, the person(s) dealing with the draw computer would have to be involved, and the independent auditor(s) would have to be involved. There would be daily records showing that somebody checked the database before the drawing to see which number was played the least. Any meaningful manipulation would also skew the long term results, which are expected to result in a payout of 50 cents for each dollar wagered.

                    I could go on, but I hear the black helicopters coming and I've only got a few minutes to  format my hard drive and escape through the secret tunnel. 

                      bellyache's avatar - 64x64a9wg

                      United States
                      Member #12618
                      March 18, 2005
                      2060 Posts
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                      Posted: July 14, 2006, 3:51 pm - IP Logged

                      oops family entertainment,i don't know if junior and pops are eating honey smacks and washing down a glass of milk saying to each other now son i'm going to tell ya about the birds and the bees and the flowers and the trees and bellyaches avatar,lol.just messin' with you bellyache.having a laugh.you definitely one of my favorite posters here.

                      lol Mike. I know you were just joking. =)

                      Dance like no one is watching.

                        Avatar
                        New Mexico
                        United States
                        Member #12305
                        March 10, 2005
                        2984 Posts
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                        Posted: July 14, 2006, 4:00 pm - IP Logged

                        They have a computer system that records your bets or issues you quick picks that are recorded and when the day is over that same computer system is picking the winning numbers. C'mon...we're not that stupid. Really. We might be lottery players but there's very few stupid ones amongst us.

                        Among the most basic steps a state would take in running a game where the numbers are drawn by computer would be using an independent computer to draw the numbers, but if there really was a conspiracy to favor numbers that were played it would be easy enough to check the computer that manages the database and then use that information to manipulate the drawing. Of course it would have to be a widespread conspiracy because the programmer(s) would have to be involved, the person(s) dealing with the draw computer would have to be involved, and the independent auditor(s) would have to be involved. There would be daily records showing that somebody checked the database before the drawing to see which number was played the least. Any meaningful manipulation would also skew the long term results, which are expected to result in a payout of 50 cents for each dollar wagered.

                        I could go on, but I hear the black helicopters coming and I've only got a few minutes to  format my hard drive and escape through the secret tunnel. 

                        Sounds as though your opinion on this runs counter to a more widely held one.  Which doesn't make it wrong. 

                        On the other hand, it doesn't make the people who think otherwise need any secret tunnels to hide from black helicopters..

                        It just means you have an opinion, no better, no worse than the rest of us do, and that you are probably an awfully trusting and gullible individual.

                        No harm in that.

                        J

                        Absorb the good, ignore the bad, weigh the ugly.

                        It's about number behavior.

                        Egos don't count.

                         

                        Dedicated to the memory of Big Loooser

                         

                          LOTTOMIKE's avatar - cash money.jpg
                          Tennessee
                          United States
                          Member #7853
                          October 15, 2004
                          11338 Posts
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                          Posted: July 14, 2006, 5:35 pm - IP Logged

                          remember at the end of scarface the movie where tony montana has an uzi and he says "say hello to my lil friend" and he pulls that joker out and means business.well guess what all you lying cheating states with RNG.....

                           

                          SAY HELLO TO MY LIL FRIEND.......Avatar

                          gonna sniff out all those dirty rotten scoundrels that are cheating players left and right ain't that right doggie!

                            lotterybraker's avatar - pyramid
                            mississippi
                            United States
                            Member #34478
                            March 3, 2006
                            5903 Posts
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                            Posted: July 14, 2006, 5:50 pm - IP Logged

                            Ripsnorter..I hope we are having a party..I hope you nail one of those pic 5's or 2 or 3 or 4..lol..I was just saying..I have cycled both ball machines and RNG'S just for the pic 3 and pic 4 mostly..not much difference..a little more for the RNGS..which is the computer..the computers seems to want to combine numbers a little more than the ball machines..I am still trying to find the KEY to the mixing..those states I cycle has many smaller cycles in it to make one..I just need to find the right one that starts it off and it would eliminate many of those other numbers..but the damn thing bounces around like a rubber ball..lol..hence I have to list all the cycles that are present..ie..usually around 40 numbers or so..

                            "Attention all Mathematicians: Check your degree at the door because when it comes to whole numbers you are the Amateur"

                              LOTTOMIKE's avatar - cash money.jpg
                              Tennessee
                              United States
                              Member #7853
                              October 15, 2004
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                              Posted: July 14, 2006, 5:58 pm - IP Logged

                              if you bet the computerized states online thats cool.i've done it and won big money.however if you play in person in the state that is computerized they sometimes keep track of your selections and have been known to make the computer spit out a winning number that nobody bet on.thats the danger of RNG.i win online as much with RNG draws as i do ball states BUT the danger is when you bet in person in a state that has computerized draws.if a person goes and buys 486 ten times they will see that and make sure the winning number is something besides that so the state doesn't lose money.as far betting 486 ten times in a ball state and winning? well you can do that because the state has no control over what the balls will do.i won 5 grand betting 486 ten times back in 2004 for tennessee a ball drawn state.if i would've did this in a computerized state it wouldn't have hit.