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The possibilities for fraud in RNG games

Topic closed. 64 replies. Last post 10 years ago by Rip Snorter.

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Do you believe there's a significant chance:

One, or more states have rigged RNG games? [ 2 ]  [5.71%]
All RNG games are probably rigged [ 9 ]  [25.71%]
No state would do such a thing. [ 1 ]  [2.86%]
'Business' friends draw straws to see who wins? [ 0 ]  [0.00%]
RNG computers are a fig-newton of the imagination [ 1 ]  [2.86%]
Some states are probably honest sometimes [ 0 ]  [0.00%]
A majority of states run honest games [ 4 ]  [11.43%]
Not possible to assure an honest game with RNG [ 8 ]  [22.86%]
Possible to run an honest RNG game, but unlikely [ 5 ]  [14.29%]
Who are you kidding? I don't play RNG. [ 5 ]  [14.29%]
Total Valid Votes [ 35 ]  
Discarded Votes [ 9 ]  
Rick G's avatar - avatar 1766.jpg
FEMA Region V Camp #21
United States
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July 27, 2002
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Posted: July 16, 2006, 2:11 am - IP Logged

It is an irrefutable argument that the POSSIBILITY of fraud exists a lot more in a random number computer draw than in a bunch of ping pong balls bouncing around in a chamber. Both types of draws are overseen by independent auditing companies.

The ping pong game has been rigged before, the perpetrators were caught and to this day that particular state's lottery is tainted from that fraud.

The question was the POSSIBILITY of doing a fraud. It's a lot easier to have a computer pick the desired numbers than it is to stick pin holes in ping pong balls to achieve that result.

Posted 4/6:  IL Pick 3 midday and evening until they hit:  555, 347 (str8).


    Rick G's avatar - avatar 1766.jpg
    FEMA Region V Camp #21
    United States
    Member #520
    July 27, 2002
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    Posted: July 16, 2006, 2:16 am - IP Logged

    I can't edit, but Bellyache you have my vote for the best avatar on the site! Waiting for a "male" rendition of that one now.

    You must be talking about the Washington monument..........

                               

                                      monument

    Good Point.........Rick

    Pac, I just caught that,,,good one!

    Posted 4/6:  IL Pick 3 midday and evening until they hit:  555, 347 (str8).


      Bryan's avatar - Lottery-002.jpg
      Mid-Missouri
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      Posted: July 16, 2006, 2:48 am - IP Logged

      The California Derby game already shows us that with all the safety precautions in place that something can still be miss by all parties involved. It was the players that brought the problem to light. So where were the auditors then? Where were the programmers that should check and double check each others work on the programs used? This went on for more than 6 months. Where were the statisticians during the 6 months worth of drawings? Why wasn't this noticed. This very thing proves those thinking it would never get pass all these other people would be wrong. If it hadn't been for the players it may still be going on. You can read the story here.

      http://www.lotterypost.com/news/112810.htm

      Bryan  :)

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        New Mexico
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        Posted: July 16, 2006, 6:44 am - IP Logged

        Then there was the what? Kansas problem with pick low-number three days in a row.... computer glitch, not subtle, still took two, three days to notice.  A  thirteen year old kid who pries himself away from hacking the national defense computers long enough ought to be able to arrive at subltly.

        J

        Absorb the good, ignore the bad, weigh the ugly.

        It's about number behavior.

        Egos don't count.

         

        Dedicated to the memory of Big Loooser

         

          Avatar

          Honduras
          Member #20982
          August 29, 2005
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          Posted: July 16, 2006, 12:19 pm - IP Logged

          I mention before the following:

          "If 1-2-3-5 plays in draw number 18, it WILL NOT PLAY between draw number 18 to 27, but instead it will take a long cycle to come up again..."

          Forgot to say that is not the case with a machine...with a machine, the likelyhood of 1-2-3-5 playing between draw number 18 to 27 is great, the numbers can repeat again with a machine but not with a RnG...

          Rip Snorter you said: "A temptation to lie to us, steal from us, enslave us if they can."


          We already been enslaved by having a game that has 150 something million combinations...What's worse they don't lower the bonus ball range from 1-22 but instead the jack it up to 42 and 46 which makes the game a strong succer...A game like that is enslaving people...Is funny how line after line of people stand up infront of the gillotine or predator....
          And then there is keno....jee...
          What i wish is for them to create a gigantic lotto stock market, where there are multiple winners and multiple losers...
          And by not informing people how many combinations a game have is a form of lie....

          YOu call that voluntary-tax i call it stealing because they don't offer players a fair chance......

           

          "Keno is "el diablo cazador de hombres".............you can't see it...............and it skins them...............from movie "Predator 1"......

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            Morrison, IL
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            May 13, 2004
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            Posted: July 16, 2006, 12:26 pm - IP Logged

            RNG draws are audited just like ball drawings are, and if the auditors didn't believe there was a way to judge whether the draws were rigged or not, the auditors would disclaim an opinion.

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              New Mexico
              United States
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              March 10, 2005
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              Posted: July 16, 2006, 12:41 pm - IP Logged

              RNG draws are audited just like ball drawings are, and if the auditors didn't believe there was a way to judge whether the draws were rigged or not, the auditors would disclaim an opinion.

              The auditors appear to have been on a coffee break three days in a row or more.... memory eludes me... in KS, MO, Nebraska?  One of those cornfield states a while back.

              No, it wasn't rigged.

              But if it had been the auditors still wouldn't have caught it.

              J

              Absorb the good, ignore the bad, weigh the ugly.

              It's about number behavior.

              Egos don't count.

               

              Dedicated to the memory of Big Loooser

               

                Avatar
                New Mexico
                United States
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                March 10, 2005
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                Posted: July 16, 2006, 12:52 pm - IP Logged

                I mention before the following:

                "If 1-2-3-5 plays in draw number 18, it WILL NOT PLAY between draw number 18 to 27, but instead it will take a long cycle to come up again..."

                Forgot to say that is not the case with a machine...with a machine, the likelyhood of 1-2-3-5 playing between draw number 18 to 27 is great, the numbers can repeat again with a machine but not with a RnG...

                Rip Snorter you said: "A temptation to lie to us, steal from us, enslave us if they can."


                We already been enslaved by having a game that has 150 something million combinations...What's worse they don't lower the bonus ball range from 1-22 but instead the jack it up to 42 and 46 which makes the game a strong succer...A game like that is enslaving people...Is funny how line after line of people stand up infront of the gillotine or predator....
                And then there is keno....jee...
                What i wish is for them to create a gigantic lotto stock market, where there are multiple winners and multiple losers...
                And by not informing people how many combinations a game have is a form of lie....

                YOu call that voluntary-tax i call it stealing because they don't offer players a fair chance......

                 

                "Keno is "el diablo cazador de hombres".............you can't see it...............and it skins them...............from movie "Predator 1"......

                Pumpi:

                A couple of points.

                First, one of the major differences between slavery and a regular job is that you can't quit a slave job, where'as you can quit (in theory) a job of the sort where the boss with more limited powers of persuasion.

                Every day I fight off the urge to go buy NM Roadrunner tickets. 

                Every Wednesday and Saturday I fight off the urge to buy Powerball tickets unless I decide things look happy enough to do it.

                Those games aren't slavery.  They're just a demonstration that the hand is quicker than the eye, and they're something offered us to give us hallucinations in lieu of illegal mushrooms, peyote, and LSD.

                Secondly, (I don't expect you to believe me on this) those lotteries with bonus balls, I'm thinking, have donealready outsmarted themselves. 

                My suspicion is that someone's going to discover the odds and the computations and the statistics just made a swirling trip down the river of pipe-oligy downstream of the commodes.

                You call it corn.

                WE call it maize.

                Jack

                 

                Absorb the good, ignore the bad, weigh the ugly.

                It's about number behavior.

                Egos don't count.

                 

                Dedicated to the memory of Big Loooser

                 

                  Rick G's avatar - avatar 1766.jpg
                  FEMA Region V Camp #21
                  United States
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                  Posted: July 16, 2006, 1:16 pm - IP Logged

                  The purpose of an independent auditing firm overseeing a lottery drawing is not to just pre-test draws. In a ball drawing, the integrity of the machine is tested and the balls are weighed and their diameter is measured. The ball sets and machines are kept in a locked vault. These are physical checks to make sure the game is honest as intended and can't be tampered with. In a RNG drawing, the auditors can do nothing more than pre-test the computer (and obviously that is not enough to find problems). They do not go through every line of programming code. They do not investigate if the computer picking the numbers "knows" what number combinations have been sold. They do not check to see if someone has hacked into the computer system. These are major differences in auditing ball drawn vs. RNG games.

                  Posted 4/6:  IL Pick 3 midday and evening until they hit:  555, 347 (str8).


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                    New Mexico
                    United States
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                    2984 Posts
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                    Posted: July 16, 2006, 6:58 pm - IP Logged

                    The purpose of an independent auditing firm overseeing a lottery drawing is not to just pre-test draws. In a ball drawing, the integrity of the machine is tested and the balls are weighed and their diameter is measured. The ball sets and machines are kept in a locked vault. These are physical checks to make sure the game is honest as intended and can't be tampered with. In a RNG drawing, the auditors can do nothing more than pre-test the computer (and obviously that is not enough to find problems). They do not go through every line of programming code. They do not investigate if the computer picking the numbers "knows" what number combinations have been sold. They do not check to see if someone has hacked into the computer system. These are major differences in auditing ball drawn vs. RNG games.


                    "In a RNG drawing, the auditors can do nothing more than pre-test the computer (and obviously that is not enough to find problems). They do not go through every line of programming code. They do not investigate if the computer picking the numbers "knows" what number combinations have been sold. They do not check to see if someone has hacked into the computer system. These are major differences in auditing ball drawn vs. RNG games."

                    Not much else they could do, the auditors.

                    Screen shows a set of numbers, printer spits out a line.

                    Auditor: "Is that it?"

                    Lottery official: "That's her."

                    Auditor looks at the printed number, compares it to the number on the screen.

                    "She's a winner."

                    Lottery Official winks at Auditor.

                    "Ain't she, though?"  Auditor and Lottery Official high-five.  "Your turn again tomorrow."

                    Lottery Official phones the television, reports the number, then calls cousin Charlie.

                    "She's a winner! Got through the careful scrutiny of the Auditor. We done it again!"




                    Absorb the good, ignore the bad, weigh the ugly.

                    It's about number behavior.

                    Egos don't count.

                     

                    Dedicated to the memory of Big Loooser

                     

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                      Honduras
                      Member #20982
                      August 29, 2005
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                      Posted: July 16, 2006, 8:29 pm - IP Logged

                      You all don't have to agree with me. But is still slavery....Where else can you get instantenously rich? I say two ways: In the Stock market or on the Lottery...Unless you want to rob a bank, start a scam, steal cars...Is slavery....Is slavery and is Robery....don't care who says what...
                      Put example Powerball, it has 150 something million combinations...If 150 Something million people bought the powerball tickets, it will still not cover the 150 something million combinations that Powerball has..Why? because. All 150 something million people/players will not play each one of the 150 something million combinations that the game have, Lots of them will play combinations played before by others. And i bet all those millions of people will not cover 1 quarter of the 150 something million combinations...Guys, Has anyone of you all have tried writing the numbers from 1 to 1 million in a notebook with a pen? I don't think that you all have, because if you have done it you will know that 1 million is a lot of damn numbers...Now imagine 150 something million [something the lottery corporation should had thought about before starting a lottery]...It takes less time to write 1,11,15,26,33 +14 than it takes to let the lotto computer chew it, scan it and print it out plus forming the line and the lapses in between...Not only that, I don't think that if you wanted to write all the combinations down you could do it in 3/4 days[time between draws for Powerball/megamillions]...And you have to take into account that is not 1 full day, but so many hours because they stop selling after i think 12 am up to 7am, and when you are in line, there are other people playing other games [e.g pick3], and when is your turn, you can not play let's say more than 300 tickets because then people behind you start mumbling and complaining...
                      And the sad part about it is that i think lotteries around the world are following the U.S footsteps (or whoever started the thing) when it comes to lottery...Nobody stops and says "let's try it another way"..They are all imitating the 6-49 configuration...

                      It is slavery and robbery and I condemn it....

                       

                      "Keno is "the demon who makes trophies of men".........you can't see it.........and it skins them".......from movie "Predator 1"

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                        Columbia City, Indiana
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                        December 9, 2003
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                        Posted: July 16, 2006, 8:52 pm - IP Logged

                        Ya gotta admit, Jack, the man backed up his argument.

                        You just can't argue with that kind of logic... (well, I can't, anyway...)

                        Come, Pinky; we must prepare for tomorrow night...

                        Jim

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                          New Mexico
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                          Posted: July 16, 2006, 9:20 pm - IP Logged

                          Ya gotta admit, Jack, the man backed up his argument.

                          You just can't argue with that kind of logic... (well, I can't, anyway...)

                          Hi Jim:

                          I expect you're right.  Some logic can't be argued against.

                          J

                          Absorb the good, ignore the bad, weigh the ugly.

                          It's about number behavior.

                          Egos don't count.

                           

                          Dedicated to the memory of Big Loooser

                           

                            Clairvoyance's avatar - eye storm.jpg

                            United States
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                            November 23, 2005
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                            Posted: July 16, 2006, 11:12 pm - IP Logged

                            Remember when your Dad put a quarter in his hand and put his hands behind his back and asked "What hand is it in?" You picked one hand but the quarter was always in the other hand. Never could guess it right. After a while the old man wanted to play that game on you again and you said, "No way...it's a boring game because you always win and I hate you!" And you stomped up to your room never wanting to play the hidden quarter game again...not even with YOUR kids.

                            Not the Coin game! My dad used to put his hands behind his back and drop the quarter in his pocket so it was not in either hand let alone the hand you picked! A prankster he is!

                            Just Like PA Mid Day Draw you just can’t win no mater what hand you pick!

                            Barb,

                            That's downright abuse. I used to abuse my kids by pulling the quarter out of the ear. They're still in therapy but the doctor says they'll come to love and trust again...it just might take a few years.

                            Hi Rick,

                            Well I suspect I came out of the situation fairly well.

                            Except that I like to shoot quarters from a slingshot on to the neighbors roof top 12 midnight! Makes them think something is on the roof and keeps them up for hours!

                            Hmmmmmmmm! LOL

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                              Honduras
                              Member #20982
                              August 29, 2005
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                              Posted: July 17, 2006, 9:20 am - IP Logged

                              another type of robbery are scratch-offs...

                               

                               

                              "For the glory of Rome"....