Welcome Guest
Log In | Register )
You last visited December 9, 2016, 9:55 pm
All times shown are
Eastern Time (GMT-5:00)

You buy a 2line ticket to pool with 1 person but they don't pay the $1

Topic closed. 36 replies. Last post 10 years ago by konane.

Page 2 of 3
3.76
PrintE-mailLink

What do you do?

They didn't pay the $1 as promised so they're out. [ 23 ]  [57.50%]
I'd still share the JP and get the $1 later. [ 4 ]  [10.00%]
If they are a friend, i'd share. A collegue, no. [ 5 ]  [12.50%]
This is a tough question. See my reply. [ 8 ]  [20.00%]
Total Valid Votes [ 40 ]  
Discarded Votes [ 1 ]  

United States
Member #17555
June 22, 2005
5582 Posts
Offline
Posted: March 21, 2007, 2:08 pm - IP Logged

I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.

            wimpy

    x1kosmic's avatar - neptune vg2.gif

    United States
    Member #48046
    December 7, 2006
    1699 Posts
    Offline
    Posted: March 21, 2007, 4:47 pm - IP Logged

    Sorry Pumpi... I didn't realize till later that that was  Mega's thread.

    Mega.... if they said  "that's alright"    .....i guess just shrug your shoulders... eat the dollar loss, 

    but say something like:  ...hey mabey next time,   

    you know... friendly like

      RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
      mid-Ohio
      United States
      Member #9
      March 24, 2001
      19830 Posts
      Offline
      Posted: March 21, 2007, 4:52 pm - IP Logged

      I wouldn't share any of my winnings with someone who only had intentions of contributing to the price of ticket some time late.  A similar claim was made by co=workers of a group in California that won the $315M jackpot and accord to this news story all their cases were dismissed and their lawyer fined $300K for accepting their case because it lacked merit.  http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_5482495

       * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
         
                   Evil Looking       

        Avatar

        United States
        Member #20470
        August 18, 2005
        221 Posts
        Offline
        Posted: March 21, 2007, 7:02 pm - IP Logged

        well , show me the money, or no play and would think about it the next time and take that as an lesson, it could have been more than 1.00.

          Guru101's avatar - rw6jhh
          Indiana
          United States
          Member #48725
          January 7, 2007
          1954 Posts
          Offline
          Posted: March 21, 2007, 8:53 pm - IP Logged

          I really do wish more people would stop relying on verbal agreements for serious things like this. Yes! That's right! Lottery pools are very serious matters! Sure, the odds run very high against you, but we're talking about millions of dollars here. It just could hit the jackpot! I don't like to hear "He said, she said".

          Gonna win.Big Smile

            guesser's avatar - Lottery-017.jpg

            United States
            Member #41383
            June 16, 2006
            1969 Posts
            Offline
            Posted: March 21, 2007, 9:30 pm - IP Logged

            Okay, say you worked with a person for 10 years or more but you still only consider them to be a collegue and not a personal friend.  I mean, your cool with the person at work but you would NEVER hang out with that person outside of work or business. 

            Next, you both are talking about the lottery.  You suggest you pool 2 lines in the MM drawing and the other person agrees.  You say you will go and purchase the $2 dollar tickect (QP) and the person agrees to give you the dollar as soon as they go on break. 

            You go get the ticket, sign just your name and as soon as the other person gives you the dollar, you have them sign too.  The person comes back from break and doesn't pay you the dollar and says they will get the dollar to you before they leave.  Its the end of both of your shifts and the person says they thought they had a $1 dollar bill on them but they don't and then looks at you like your supposed to just front them the $1 buck.  You look at them like "you said you had a dollar, if you don't your not in on the ticket" (I didn't actually say this but I thought it).  So the other person said, "oh well, nevermind."

            Now in this situation, what would you do if the ticket wins the jackpot?  Would you share it with the other person even though they didn't have the dollar in on the ticket?  Would you keep it to yourself since they didn't pay up because they thought they had a buck on them but didn't?

            PS:We were actually talking about the movie "It Could Happen To You" and thats why we decided to share a ticket but they didn't pay the buck.  That was the deal, my dollar and your dollar and we'll split it 50/50.

            WHAT WOULD YOU DO???

            EASY.

            They are out.

            If you let them 'in', when does it stop ?  Where do you draw the line ?  What if 10 folks get in and 5 don't pay ?

            I wouldn't share any winnings, and I would not chase anyone for their money.

            Just like George Clooney said in 'Ocean's 11'. 

              grengrad's avatar - nw rogue.jpg
              Raleigh
              United States
              Member #49057
              January 17, 2007
              172 Posts
              Offline
              Posted: March 21, 2007, 10:37 pm - IP Logged

              I do not pool, it opens up too many legal issues.

              If for some strange reason I did pool, it would be with friends, and I will be willing to front them the money on a late payment.

               

              Why would you want to pool and split winnings with someone that you clearly do not like? 

                Avatar
                NY
                United States
                Member #23835
                October 16, 2005
                3475 Posts
                Online
                Posted: March 22, 2007, 3:37 pm - IP Logged

                No, the agreement was to pay me the 1 buck BEFORE the end of their shift if they wanted in.  I think the person knew they didn't have a dollar from the beginning and thought I would front them.  The agreement was also that they would sign the back of the ticket next to my name when they paid the dollar thus making the "contract" complete. 

                Go back and read what you wrote the first time around. You asked us to play judge and told us what happened, so that's what I'm basing my opinion on. If there's a legal dispute the case will be judged on the facts as presented, and what you think won't matter. Think about any other contract you've agreed to, whether it's signing a lease, buying a car, or whatever. Do you think that either party can change the terms just because they thought the other party wouldn't enforce their rights under the contract? Let's review the terms as you described them.

                "You suggest you pool 2 lines in the MM drawing and the other person agrees.  You say you will go and purchase the $2 dollar tickect"

                That's the contract. There is clear intent that the two of you will become equal co-owners of a ticket (you and the coworker both "wanted in" as you say), and you will go buy the ticket. It's an oral contract, and doesn't require signatures or any further action to become complete. Note that there is no need to use quotes around the term contract. It's not some make believe "contract", it's a real, legally binding contract.

                "the person agrees to give you the dollar as soon as they go on break."

                You set a payment schedule, which is a good idea. The other person is a bit late in making payment. Bummer. Does the contract establish any procedure or penalty for late payment? No, none that you told us. Does late payment release either party from their contractual obligation? No. Without any terms in the contract, your coworker simply owes you $1, just like you'd simply owe the rent if you don't pay on the 1st and your lease doesn't impose a penalty for late payment. Of course unless the landlord wrote the contract themselves it has an entire section on what happens if the rent is late. There's a reason that good contracts consider the likely contingencies.

                "You go get the ticket"

                You bought the ticket, and you did so on behalf of the partnership, so the ticket belongs to the partnership. Your story implicitly states that at this point that's your intent. Signing the ticket is a good idea, but has nothing to do with the terms of the contract.

                "Its the end of both of your shifts and the person says they thought they had a $1 dollar bill on them but they don't and then looks at you like your supposed to just front them the $1 buck. You look at them like "you said you had a dollar, if you don't your not in on the ticket" (I didn't actually say this but I thought it)"

                The judge asks, "would you please repeat that last part?"

                "I didn't actually say this but I thought it."

                The ruling: Changing the terms of a contract requires the agreement of both parties. You entered into the contract, which is straighforward enough. That you spent money on behalf of the partnership before all the partners had contributed may be unfortunate, but it's not relevant. That you had the opportunity to ask the other party to agree to dissolve the contract, but you chose not to ask is also unfortunate, and therefore not relevant. Since you didn't both agree to change the terms, the original contract is valid and can be enforced by the other party. Since the contract had no provision for a penalty or other remedy in case the other party didn't pay on time, your sole remedy is to file a lawsuit to recover the $1 if the other party doesn't pay
                voluntarily.

                Of course, the outcome of a legal ruling is never certain, but the above is a perfectly likely scenario based on the story you told. It's possible that a judge would rule that payment before the drawing is an implicit part of the agreement and that failure to pay nullifies the contract, but since you agreed to buy the ticket before being paid and receive payment at a future time it's most likely that the contract can be enforced. Your interest is only $1 and the other party's interest is 50% of the value of the ticket.

                Win or lose, you should have learned the most fundamental rule of office lottery pools, which is to get the money before tickets are bought. If other members of the pool don't contribute you're still free to buy your own ticket(s). In this case you clearly bought the ticket for the pool and not for yourself.

                  konane's avatar - wallace
                  Atlanta, GA
                  United States
                  Member #1265
                  March 13, 2003
                  3333 Posts
                  Offline
                  Posted: March 22, 2007, 4:00 pm - IP Logged

                  Go back and read what you wrote the first time around. You asked us to play judge and told us what happened, so that's what I'm basing my opinion on. If there's a legal dispute the case will be judged on the facts as presented, and what you think won't matter. Think about any other contract you've agreed to, whether it's signing a lease, buying a car, or whatever. Do you think that either party can change the terms just because they thought the other party wouldn't enforce their rights under the contract? Let's review the terms as you described them.

                  "You suggest you pool 2 lines in the MM drawing and the other person agrees.  You say you will go and purchase the $2 dollar tickect"

                  That's the contract. There is clear intent that the two of you will become equal co-owners of a ticket (you and the coworker both "wanted in" as you say), and you will go buy the ticket. It's an oral contract, and doesn't require signatures or any further action to become complete. Note that there is no need to use quotes around the term contract. It's not some make believe "contract", it's a real, legally binding contract.

                  "the person agrees to give you the dollar as soon as they go on break."

                  You set a payment schedule, which is a good idea. The other person is a bit late in making payment. Bummer. Does the contract establish any procedure or penalty for late payment? No, none that you told us. Does late payment release either party from their contractual obligation? No. Without any terms in the contract, your coworker simply owes you $1, just like you'd simply owe the rent if you don't pay on the 1st and your lease doesn't impose a penalty for late payment. Of course unless the landlord wrote the contract themselves it has an entire section on what happens if the rent is late. There's a reason that good contracts consider the likely contingencies.

                  "You go get the ticket"

                  You bought the ticket, and you did so on behalf of the partnership, so the ticket belongs to the partnership. Your story implicitly states that at this point that's your intent. Signing the ticket is a good idea, but has nothing to do with the terms of the contract.

                  "Its the end of both of your shifts and the person says they thought they had a $1 dollar bill on them but they don't and then looks at you like your supposed to just front them the $1 buck. You look at them like "you said you had a dollar, if you don't your not in on the ticket" (I didn't actually say this but I thought it)"

                  The judge asks, "would you please repeat that last part?"

                  "I didn't actually say this but I thought it."

                  The ruling: Changing the terms of a contract requires the agreement of both parties. You entered into the contract, which is straighforward enough. That you spent money on behalf of the partnership before all the partners had contributed may be unfortunate, but it's not relevant. That you had the opportunity to ask the other party to agree to dissolve the contract, but you chose not to ask is also unfortunate, and therefore not relevant. Since you didn't both agree to change the terms, the original contract is valid and can be enforced by the other party. Since the contract had no provision for a penalty or other remedy in case the other party didn't pay on time, your sole remedy is to file a lawsuit to recover the $1 if the other party doesn't pay
                  voluntarily.

                  Of course, the outcome of a legal ruling is never certain, but the above is a perfectly likely scenario based on the story you told. It's possible that a judge would rule that payment before the drawing is an implicit part of the agreement and that failure to pay nullifies the contract, but since you agreed to buy the ticket before being paid and receive payment at a future time it's most likely that the contract can be enforced. Your interest is only $1 and the other party's interest is 50% of the value of the ticket.

                  Win or lose, you should have learned the most fundamental rule of office lottery pools, which is to get the money before tickets are bought. If other members of the pool don't contribute you're still free to buy your own ticket(s). In this case you clearly bought the ticket for the pool and not for yourself.

                  Deleted my last post based on the California ruling that RJOH posted a link to.  Didn't know just how the courts might rule on that.  Excellent precedent set in that case.

                  KY Floyd's comments are outstanding and I believe anyone in charge of a lottery pool should read them thoroughly along with having a stipulation in writing that if you don't pay to be in a particular draw then you don't participate in benefits it may yield.  Stop a problem before it begins and ends up in court.

                  Good luck to everyone!

                    Avatar
                    California
                    United States
                    Member #46824
                    October 1, 2006
                    270 Posts
                    Offline
                    Posted: March 22, 2007, 4:35 pm - IP Logged

                    Okay, say you worked with a person for 10 years or more but you still only consider them to be a collegue and not a personal friend.  I mean, your cool with the person at work but you would NEVER hang out with that person outside of work or business. 

                    Next, you both are talking about the lottery.  You suggest you pool 2 lines in the MM drawing and the other person agrees.  You say you will go and purchase the $2 dollar tickect (QP) and the person agrees to give you the dollar as soon as they go on break. 

                    You go get the ticket, sign just your name and as soon as the other person gives you the dollar, you have them sign too.  The person comes back from break and doesn't pay you the dollar and says they will get the dollar to you before they leave.  Its the end of both of your shifts and the person says they thought they had a $1 dollar bill on them but they don't and then looks at you like your supposed to just front them the $1 buck.  You look at them like "you said you had a dollar, if you don't your not in on the ticket" (I didn't actually say this but I thought it).  So the other person said, "oh well, nevermind."

                    Now in this situation, what would you do if the ticket wins the jackpot?  Would you share it with the other person even though they didn't have the dollar in on the ticket?  Would you keep it to yourself since they didn't pay up because they thought they had a buck on them but didn't?

                    PS:We were actually talking about the movie "It Could Happen To You" and thats why we decided to share a ticket but they didn't pay the buck.  That was the deal, my dollar and your dollar and we'll split it 50/50.

                    WHAT WOULD YOU DO???

                    MegaWinner...wasn't the movie "It Could Happen To You" about a policeman who after eating at a restaurant didn't have money for a tip and said to the waitress if he wins on the ticket he has on him he will split it with her?  I don't think there was any money exchanged between the two parties involved, just a promise to share if the ticket won in lieu of a tip.

                    This doesn't really affect the premise you described, only the PS portion.

                      MegaWinner's avatar - Lottery-029.jpg
                      New Jersey
                      United States
                      Member #50273
                      March 3, 2007
                      348 Posts
                      Offline
                      Posted: March 22, 2007, 4:50 pm - IP Logged

                      Go back and read what you wrote the first time around. You asked us to play judge and told us what happened, so that's what I'm basing my opinion on. If there's a legal dispute the case will be judged on the facts as presented, and what you think won't matter. Think about any other contract you've agreed to, whether it's signing a lease, buying a car, or whatever. Do you think that either party can change the terms just because they thought the other party wouldn't enforce their rights under the contract? Let's review the terms as you described them.

                      "You suggest you pool 2 lines in the MM drawing and the other person agrees.  You say you will go and purchase the $2 dollar tickect"

                      That's the contract. There is clear intent that the two of you will become equal co-owners of a ticket (you and the coworker both "wanted in" as you say), and you will go buy the ticket. It's an oral contract, and doesn't require signatures or any further action to become complete. Note that there is no need to use quotes around the term contract. It's not some make believe "contract", it's a real, legally binding contract.

                      "the person agrees to give you the dollar as soon as they go on break."

                      You set a payment schedule, which is a good idea. The other person is a bit late in making payment. Bummer. Does the contract establish any procedure or penalty for late payment? No, none that you told us. Does late payment release either party from their contractual obligation? No. Without any terms in the contract, your coworker simply owes you $1, just like you'd simply owe the rent if you don't pay on the 1st and your lease doesn't impose a penalty for late payment. Of course unless the landlord wrote the contract themselves it has an entire section on what happens if the rent is late. There's a reason that good contracts consider the likely contingencies.

                      "You go get the ticket"

                      You bought the ticket, and you did so on behalf of the partnership, so the ticket belongs to the partnership. Your story implicitly states that at this point that's your intent. Signing the ticket is a good idea, but has nothing to do with the terms of the contract.

                      "Its the end of both of your shifts and the person says they thought they had a $1 dollar bill on them but they don't and then looks at you like your supposed to just front them the $1 buck. You look at them like "you said you had a dollar, if you don't your not in on the ticket" (I didn't actually say this but I thought it)"

                      The judge asks, "would you please repeat that last part?"

                      "I didn't actually say this but I thought it."

                      The ruling: Changing the terms of a contract requires the agreement of both parties. You entered into the contract, which is straighforward enough. That you spent money on behalf of the partnership before all the partners had contributed may be unfortunate, but it's not relevant. That you had the opportunity to ask the other party to agree to dissolve the contract, but you chose not to ask is also unfortunate, and therefore not relevant. Since you didn't both agree to change the terms, the original contract is valid and can be enforced by the other party. Since the contract had no provision for a penalty or other remedy in case the other party didn't pay on time, your sole remedy is to file a lawsuit to recover the $1 if the other party doesn't pay
                      voluntarily.

                      Of course, the outcome of a legal ruling is never certain, but the above is a perfectly likely scenario based on the story you told. It's possible that a judge would rule that payment before the drawing is an implicit part of the agreement and that failure to pay nullifies the contract, but since you agreed to buy the ticket before being paid and receive payment at a future time it's most likely that the contract can be enforced. Your interest is only $1 and the other party's interest is 50% of the value of the ticket.

                      Win or lose, you should have learned the most fundamental rule of office lottery pools, which is to get the money before tickets are bought. If other members of the pool don't contribute you're still free to buy your own ticket(s). In this case you clearly bought the ticket for the pool and not for yourself.

                      Good info KYfloyd, thanx for posting.  I will take this into consideration.

                      Sun Smiley I got my fingers crossed ready to win!!! Sun Smiley

                        jarasan's avatar - new patrick.gif
                        Harbinger
                        D.C./MD.
                        United States
                        Member #44103
                        July 30, 2006
                        5583 Posts
                        Online
                        Posted: March 22, 2007, 6:23 pm - IP Logged

                        I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.

                                    wimpy

                        All the people I know, for the most part are control freaks.  They'll buy their own tickets.  The people I have lent money,  I don't hear from  anymore, now in their cases it is no longer a loan, it  an investment.  It'll cost them to see me again.  Like clients that don't pay their bills, or people that bet and don't pay the bet if they lose. My point is if you trust each other (you are invested in that individual) they'll pay before the draw, and should understand the consequences of not satisfying the terms of the agreement.

                        It is like people who ask how your are doing in the lottery and I'll say something like "I hit for 2,700."

                        they say "Oh, how much did you spend?" instead of congratulating you.

                        LOL jarasan

                          Avatar
                          Sunny California
                          United States
                          Member #40295
                          May 31, 2006
                          7712 Posts
                          Offline
                          Posted: March 22, 2007, 6:35 pm - IP Logged

                          If this person is just a collegue who you don't hang out with other then at your job then I'd say hooey! You're out! Razz You don't owe then anything. Now if it was a close personal friend,well,then I'm sure you'd treat the situation differently.

                            Guru101's avatar - rw6jhh
                            Indiana
                            United States
                            Member #48725
                            January 7, 2007
                            1954 Posts
                            Offline
                            Posted: March 22, 2007, 8:09 pm - IP Logged

                            People need to use common sense when playing the lottery, whether it be alone or in a pool. Otherwise, they'll end up like this guy:

                             

                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5O6hicjWgQ 

                            Gonna win.Big Smile

                              justxploring's avatar - villiarna
                              Wandering Aimlessly
                              United States
                              Member #25360
                              November 5, 2005
                              4461 Posts
                              Offline
                              Posted: March 22, 2007, 8:26 pm - IP Logged

                              If I went to the State Lottery Commission and told them well "Well I was gonna give you a dollar first thing the next morning."  They'd look at me like I was crazy and probably laugh.  But I would still not get 1 dime.  You can't win it if you ain't in it and you gotta pay to play.

                              I Agree!   Bev, very well put!!  My feelings exactly.

                              Regarding the obligation of the ticket holder, it's true that contracts are usually bilateral, that is, 2 people make enforceable promises based on anticipated future events. (I had to memorize features of a contract for some state exams.)  So if you hire someone to fix your leaky roof and promise to pay that person, you have a contract.  If he buys the materials and fixes your roof, you are obligated to pay him since you both agreed this would happen in the future whether or not money exchanged hands at the time of the agreement.  So in this case, I agree with KY Floyd regarding the contract.

                              However, it would be very tough to prove the lottery ticket case in a court of law (you wouldn't have a picture of the roof you just repaired) unless someone witnessed this conversation or there was a recorded document.  Anyone in the world can say "she promised me this" and be lying. 

                              the person agrees to give you the dollar as soon as they go on break. 

                              This is a very important statement.  If you have an agreement to collect a 40% deposit to cover the roofing materials before you begin the job, you should not continue the work until that money has been paid.  The homeowner could say "I changed my mind, which is why I didn't pay him for the materials before he started the work."  So in this particular case, the contract might be null & void, since the money was never collected and the colleague agreed to pay at a specific time & date. 

                              Forgetting what anyone feels is legal or illegal..my personal viewpoint is this:

                              As Sophia would say on The Golden Girls...."Picture this, Sicily, 1933"....  Back in Boston I had a friend who would ask me to buy her a ticket once in a while.  She even had her own numbers.  I told her "no money, no ticket."  She once gave me the dirtiest look when I was walking into a store and she said "here, play these numbers for me."  I said "sure, but the ticket is mine until you give me a dollar."  She couldn't understand it. She even said "but they're my personal numbers."  If someone here can't understand my attitude, that's okay. We just have different ideas about meeting obligations.

                              For a person to say "I'm very fair & honest" sounds extremely self-righteous. However, I really believe strongly that I'm an honest person.  I just have certain rules and stick to them.  When it comes to gambling, I believe in paying up or shutting up.