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Ethics or Not

Topic closed. 44 replies. Last post 9 years ago by justxploring.

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Having found a $40 Mil lottery ticket with the winner Identified on the back, what do U do next?

Cash and Keep [ 3 ]  [9.68%]
Ask Owner for a finders fee. [ 15 ]  [48.39%]
Tell Owner you are splitting 50/50 [ 3 ]  [9.68%]
Cash and donate some to charity [ 0 ]  [0.00%]
If you don't respond we know your answer [ 10 ]  [32.26%]
Total Valid Votes [ 31 ]  
Discarded Votes [ 13 ]  
Raven62's avatar - binary
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Posted: June 4, 2007, 12:15 pm - IP Logged

You left out "Return to rightful Owner without a question"

Personally, I don't care if it's a ticket worth $1 or $100 million, all said and done, a good person is defined by doing what is right, even if no one is watching.

I Agree! Well said SirMetro!

A mind once stretched by a new idea never returns to its original dimensions!

    justxploring's avatar - villiarna
    Wandering Aimlessly
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    Posted: June 4, 2007, 12:42 pm - IP Logged

    Hey Pac - sure could - but only if they offer.  Lovies

    In my heart I would agree.  I've always try to do the right thing and one of the reasons I am struggling financially is because of my honesty and integrity in my business dealings.

    I've made commissions where I've given the paycheck back if I felt the company was cheating people or being deceptive.  Maybe some of us have even risked our lives for others.

    But let's get real here.  This isn't the same as finding a lost wallet.  Someone won $40 million bucks and would probably never see the ticket again had you not found it.  I'm not going to get too personal, but I could really use some of that money and, by getting a Finder's Fee, it would certainly not cause the other person hardship.  (Oh, gee.  Now he only has $35 million!)  IMHO people here are throwing the word "Karma" around the way people in the 60s used "paranoid."  You aren't creating bad Karma by asking for what you believe is a justifiable reward.  That's totally ridiculous. 

    Hypothetically, let's say I was about to lose my apartment or had no food in the refrigerator (or maybe I was homeless.)  What if I have a sick child who needs medical care or a parent in a nursing home?  You can throw all the garbage at me you want regarding how, in another life, I'll be rewarded or how one good deed leads to another.  So why isn't it KARMA that I found the ticket?  Buddhism says that everything happens for a reason and that nothing will happen to someone unless he deserves it.  I'm not saying I believe in this philosophy, but since so many people are casually referencing it, who is to say my finding the ticket isn't because of a prior good act?

    Using common sense doesn't necessarily have to be a form of greed.  There is an expression from thousands of years ago.  Excuse the misquote, but it's something like "Believe in God, but tie your camel first. "  A scientist who discovers a miracle drug doesn't do it for the glory, but he still accepts his salary.   

    Again, we're talking about $40 million.  Believe me, taking a small finder's fee is not going to send you to Hell.  This is a crappy world and the ticket might end up in the hands of a murderer or child molester.  So are you doing a good deed by turning it into him?  Think of that for a moment.

      csfb's avatar - Lottery-001.jpg

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      Posted: June 4, 2007, 12:49 pm - IP Logged

      First, I'll check the statutes governing that particular lottery.  I"ll also check local statutes on "lost and found " items.  Local, meaning where I found the ticket.  If the statutes are favorable to a  finder, I'll contact the Lottery and the media and tell them what I found.  I'll involve the media, so I have a public witness to the fact that I am the finder.  If the rightful owner does not come forth and claim, I may have a good chance of being awarded what I found. 

      Otherwise, if the statutes are not favorable to me as a finder, I'll just try to find the owner with no fanfare (owner may not like publicity) and return his ticket.

               Sun Smiley             

        Raven62's avatar - binary
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        Posted: June 4, 2007, 1:17 pm - IP Logged

        Karma: Hindu and Buddhist doctrine that a person's morality in one life sets his status in the next.

        Karma is believed to be a sum of all that an individual has done, is currently doing and will do. karma extends through one's present life and all past and future lives as well. It is cumulative.

        All living creatures are responsible for their karma — their actions and the effects of their actions.

        A mind once stretched by a new idea never returns to its original dimensions!

          justxploring's avatar - villiarna
          Wandering Aimlessly
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          Posted: June 4, 2007, 2:39 pm - IP Logged

          Remember that PEOPLE interpret the meaning of all religions.  Look at the Bible and the Qur'an.  (and all the religious wars)

          There was another thread on this board that asked what we would do if we found a winning ticket with no signature.  The same people here who say not to ask for anything wrote they'd run to the Lottery Office and claim it as their own without a second thought.  I said I would be concerned about the true winner and ask an attorney to represent me.  If I dropped a ticket, I would be forever grateful if someone turned it into the Lottery, signature or not.

          So what's actually being said here is that it's perfectly okay (because it's "KARMA") to find a ticket without a signature and take 100% of the money without trying to find its rightful owner, but it's not okay to request a finder's fee if you find the same ticket with a signature because it's not KARMA?" So now we have people on a lottery board writing the spiritual laws on the universe based on what one considers to be a valid lottery ticket or bearer instrument?  If someone finds a blank check, should he cash it because the account holder forgot to fill in the Payee or the amount?  It's no different.  Well, I'm getting nowhere and we are all entitled to our opinions, but to me this sounds hypocritical.  Some poor schmuck loses a ticket he didn't sign and he loses 100%, but someone who signed it gets it back without question. To me, either a lost ticket is your rightful property or it isn't.  I would, without question, call an attorney first, turn in the ticket, and let the courts decide.  After all, we are a Nation of Laws.

            spy153's avatar - maren

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            Posted: June 4, 2007, 2:43 pm - IP Logged

            I would have to vote none of the above.  If there is a name on the back of that ticket, I would try to locate the owner.  I don't need bad karma. I wouldn't ask for a finders fee.  If the owner is a decent person he/she should have no problem offering a finders fee...I know if I was the owner of that ticket I would GLADLY offer a finders fee.

            exactly. Wink I agree with you pacattack. I see it this way. If I lose a multimillion dollar ticket that isn't signed. It is gone. No one is going to bring it back. If they did, it would shock me. And yes, I would gladly reward them a hefty finder's fee. But if it is signed, it shows ownership and that makes it different in my opinon. Right or wrong. That is my opinion and how I would handle the situation. I have found wallets before full of money and turned them to the police stations or posted them in the papers. Not one person offered a finders fee or reward. And will continue to regardless of a reward or not. The thing is it shows ownership. Anything else is public domain.

            voir-vous dans mes reves!Cool

              KyMystikal's avatar - 1457224010054
              Florence, Alabama
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              Posted: June 4, 2007, 2:49 pm - IP Logged

              "Having found a $40 Mil lottery ticket with the winner Identified on the back, what do U do next?"

              1. Return Ticket to the Rightful Owner!

              2. Ask for No Reward!

              3. Accept Reward if Offered!

              I Agree!

              I love doubles and remember, it's just a game!!!!!!

                Coin Toss's avatar - shape barbed.jpg
                Zeta Reticuli Star System
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                Posted: June 4, 2007, 2:51 pm - IP Logged

                This seems to be yet another one of those threads where a lot of people posting, if they had been the person who lost the ticket, would be singing an rntirely different tune.

                Karma doesn't necessarily have to go full into Hinduism and Buddhism and reincarnation, karma can also be simply "what goes around comes around".

                There is indeed such a thing as creating a karmic debt.

                Here's an example - someone buys 4 frozen pizzas on sale, puts them on the bottom of their grocery cart and doesn't get charged for them. They go home figuring they beat the dstore ouf of $20.

                Within a few days, the very same person loses a $20 bill they were carryng. And that makes them furious.

                That's a mild example.

                I don't even want to thinkk about a karmic debt to the tune of $40,000,000.

                Of course, the real bear here would be finding the person who actually lost the ticket among hundreds of impostors. 

                Those who run the lotteries love it when players look for consistency in something that's designed not to have any.

                Lep

                There is one and only one 'proven' system, and that is to book the action. No matter the game, let the players pick their own losers.

                  LuckyLilly's avatar - savy chick.png

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                  Posted: June 4, 2007, 2:58 pm - IP Logged

                  I do believe in Karma, but I don't think I'd be harming mine if I wanted a finder's fee for a 40 million ticket.  I'm not trying to keep the ticket for myself, I'm doing my best to find the rightful owner, and I'm not going to force the rightful owner to go to court in order to get a cut.

                  I'd hire an attorney and explain the situation.  He'd probably contact the lottery office and let them know where the ticket was and what the problem was.  The lottery commission would handle finding the rightful owner, and they will release only pertinent info to the media, withholding some details so it will be easier to see which claim is valid by seeing which claimant can provide certain unreleased details.  Can you imagine how many people would come out of the woodwork claiming it's theirs?

                  I would tell my attorney to represent me if/when the rightful owner is found, and ask him to try to get me 2 million bucks.  If the rightful owner wants to give me more, even split the ticket 50/50, then great!  If they don't want to give me anything, then I'd definitely be disappointed, but I'd accept that. 

                    Avatar
                    Coastal Georgia
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                    Posted: June 4, 2007, 3:21 pm - IP Logged

                    If I found said ticket I would contact the rightful owner . I'm sure he or she would offer a mutually acceptable settlement. I certainly would if it were mine and I "lost" it.

                    Those that want to claim all of it are S.O.L.- because it was already signed. 

                     

                    DD

                     

                                                   

                                  

                     

                     

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                      Posted: June 4, 2007, 4:35 pm - IP Logged

                      We would be interested in your rational after you vote.

                      I checked number 5 because "Contacting the Lottery or the name on the ticket and rely on their good judgment" wasn't an option.

                      Options 1 and 4 don't really apply because since the ticket is signed, trying to cash the ticket could get you into legal trouble.

                      As for Options 2 and 3, asking for or demanding a reward sounds like blackmail and might get more legal problems than 1 or 2.

                      On almost every state lottery website, they say the first thing you do is "sign the back of the ticket and put it in a safe place" and about the same thing is printed on the back of a ticket. The idea that somebody had the good sense to sign the ticket but lost it, stretches the limits of hypothetical.

                      Somebody started a poll asking "What would do if you lost a $40 Million lottery ticket" so will the follow up poll be "Are lottery players the dumbest people on Earth?"

                        justxploring's avatar - villiarna
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                        Posted: June 4, 2007, 5:25 pm - IP Logged

                        Remember this story?  (not $40 million, but...)

                        Iraq Vet Finds Winning Lottery Ticket

                         

                        A U.S. soldier and his girlfriend found a winning lottery ticket on the ground at a convenience store Monday and turned it in to police, who were able to find its owner - a $2,500 winner with no idea her lucky ticket was missing.

                        Sgt. Edward Boniberger and Marnie Hall found the ticket in a plastic case at a store, Suffolk County Police said. They tried to find the woman who had signed it, but when they could not, they took it to a police station.

                        Detectives then located Mary Ann Doerrbecker, who had not realized she had dropped the ticket, according to Detective Sgt. Thomas Groneman.

                        "She was shocked," Groneman said. Doerrbecker met the couple at the Third Precinct and offered them a reward, which they declined.

                          Coin Toss's avatar - shape barbed.jpg
                          Zeta Reticuli Star System
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                          Posted: June 4, 2007, 5:54 pm - IP Logged

                          Re: finding the owner of the ticket.

                          Remeber the beginning of the movie Black Rain with Michael Douglas and Andy Garcia?

                          Just a thought.  

                          Those who run the lotteries love it when players look for consistency in something that's designed not to have any.

                          Lep

                          There is one and only one 'proven' system, and that is to book the action. No matter the game, let the players pick their own losers.

                            Avatar
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                            Posted: June 6, 2007, 9:53 pm - IP Logged

                            ???

                            I don't understand this poll.  This really has nothing to do with ethics at all.  I don't think you have much of a choice in this case.  You cannot cash the ticket if someone else's name is on the back of it.  When you walk into the Lottery Office, they will ask for 2 forms of ID including a photo ID (driver's license, passport) and your social security number.  So whoever chooses this answer is admitting to Identity Theft! 

                            Second, if there is any suspicious activity, the Lottery Office will investigate and there's probably a security video of the transaction.  Maybe someone else can confirm this for me, but I believe any documents you fill out at the Lottery Office are legal forms and, if you sign them fraudulently, you might be committing a crime.  

                            What would my true answer be?  I think I might contact an attorney and ask for counseling.  I don't believe in stealing or being paid to do the right thing either, but I wouldn't feel guilty if I was able to share the prize either.  People here keep using the word "Karma" but isn't finding the ticket an event that might be a result of a prior good act?   

                            This has everything to do with ethics, and it is exactly like finding a wallet (maybe that's even where the ticket was when you found it), except that this wallet contains more money than most.

                            With only one exception (Gasmeterguy, who is apparently a thief), everybody understands that the right thing to do is to return the ticket to the rightful owner. Most people seem to be demonstrating (or at least claiming) good ethics, by saying they would return the ticket, though some of those seem to be in a bit of a grey area. Obviously it's reasonable to expect that the owner might offer some reward for the return of their property, but that has nothing to do with what the right thing is.  Doing the right thing  isn't dependent on any benefit that might come your way (other than karma) or how valuable the item is. Those who would only return it in expectation of getting a reward clearly don't have the same ethics as those who would return it simply because that's the right thing to do.  Those who think they need a lawyer before returning property they know doesn't belong to them either don't have very good ethics or are confused. It sounds like a couple would try and hold the ticket hostage to force the owner to pay them a "finder's fee". Those people are at best a small step above the thief who would try to steal a share of the ticket.

                            As far as Karma,  you'll never know ahead of time what it has in store for you, and you'll never really know when it was responsible for something that happened.If Karma is the reason you find something of value it will only be based on your doing the right thing without trying to use it to your advantage. Karma means the reward will simply come to you naturally. If you only return it in hopes of getting a reward or after trying to extort a reward then it clearly wasn't Karma that caused you to find the item.  Expecting that somebody would offer a reward for the return of something valuable wouldn't cause bad Karma, but insisting on a reward or believing you are entitled to a reward means you won't be getting any good Karma for returning the item. You wouldn't expect any good Karma for driving your elderly neighbor to the doctor if you charged them for it, would you? Karma accrues from good deeds, not business transactions.

                              justxploring's avatar - villiarna
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                              Posted: June 7, 2007, 2:03 pm - IP Logged

                              This reminds me of a well known expression:

                              "No good deed goes unpunished."  Clare Booth Luce

                              We all know what is in our hearts and more than often, what a person decides is the just & moral thing to do is often very subjective. Often the final decision is between him, his spiritual counselor and God.

                              The Law is something entirely different. Although it's supposed to be designed by men & women of moral fortitude, I admit there's lots of room for improvement. However everyday we use it to make decisions, whether we realize it or not.  Do we stop at a light because of safety or because it's the law?  Maybe after doing what's right for so many years and getting slapped in the face, kicked in the butt and ridiculed, my rose colored glasses have been shattered.  Doing the right thing is, of course, important.  However, if someone believes that the system works, then I don't see why calling an attorney for legal & moral support would be unethical. 

                              As already posted, the chances of this happening are slim.  However, how do we know that the person who signed is actually the original owner?  Maybe he stole it in the first place?  Or maybe he found it in the trash and then dropped it?  I can't find the news story, but not long ago Todd posted an article about a man who held up a store after claiming a lottery ticket, which is how he was found by the police.

                              Oh, regarding the sick neighbor, there have been stories where a kind person gave a ride to someone in need and was sued.  It's sad that we live in this kind of litigious society. On a personal note, I once let a person who lost his apartment stay with me "for a few days" and had to go to court to get him out.  Doing a good deed and protecting your personal interests don't necessarily have to conflict.