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# 21 Combinations

Topic closed. 108 replies. Last post 8 years ago by turtle0747.

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UK
United Kingdom
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December 15, 2004
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 Posted: March 20, 2009, 9:08 am - IP Logged

Hi Jim

I see that you still have your problem and couldn’t rectify if! Here is two clues

I called the name of this program “Rotating Bridging Board”

The repeats are in exact locations

What you have to remember all the sequences have over 2400 repeats did your program find the all seven numbers in any format or settings?

The draws are created from two halves plus the centre ball, I have posted a thread “National Lottery website” in lottopost.co.uk showing the relationships between the draws and how we can use it in order to predict numbers!

All the draws are based 1 2 3 – Centre ball—3 2 1

But there is more to tell you in due course

Moses

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 Posted: March 20, 2009, 11:35 am - IP Logged

Hi CARBOB

I don't really understand what you mean!

If I want to filter the 41 lines of 21 combinations and perhaps find the relation between the lines, I'll take the first line and find the line which has most match to it then that line will be line 02.

Next I'll take line 02 and find match for this one that will be line 03 and so on. In other words you will be looping up the 41 lines which have direct links one to another. This way when the lotto numbers are taking match to different lines then we should be able to see how they travel around of 41 lines or your loop!

I think even if you use more line of 21 combinations then you would have a better field with more database to compare the actual results to!

You can also do exactly the same with 92 lines! If you think you'll need more lines I can provide them.

I have post this in other forum

I decided to test run the 92 sets of against UK lotto (main draw)

Below is the lotto latest draw;

14/03/2009,09,16,25,29,31,37,24

Line 05 matches 3 numbers to this draw

05 = 36 25 37 20 43 34 31

I wheel searched line 5 against lotto history of draws and I found five match 4s to line 05;

25/10/2008, 38,31,01 ,43, 20,46,36

16/08/2006, 16,04,25 ,20, 31,08,43

11/10/2003, 03,11,06 ,20, 34,43,36

06/02/2002, 13,36,02 ,20, 40,37,34

25/05/1996, 08,26,42 ,20, 34,43,25

Above are in drawn order and notice number 20 in the centre! None of these matches that I found take match 3 to the actual lotto draw but we have a brand new draw introduced last week and here is the draw 5 of it

16/03/2009, 04,06,20,21,36,37,48 (sorted order, drawn order not available)

Three numbers 20,36,37 matches to 06/02/2002!

You can find the information for the new draw from eurotelemillions.com

I think, it would be wise to suggest that we can use these 92 lines as samples or delegates for 1000s of draws to find out the relations between the draws and also which draw equals to which!

As an example line 05 of 92 took match 4 to five draws, 0080,0639,0814,1110,1340, now what we have to find is which other lines of 92 will take the same matches as line 05!

This is one way of finding the relation of one draw to another or perhaps which of the lines will find the adjacent etc!

Moses

ORLANDO, FLORIDA
United States
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 Posted: March 20, 2009, 12:15 pm - IP Logged

Moses,

I was referring to your statement about deleting duplicate numbers within the table 6/53. Here's a view of the hits for the strings.

 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 6 5 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 5 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 5 6 6 6 6 5 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 5 6 3 31 1 4 1 2 2 3 2 4 29 1 3 4 2 1 1 2 3 31 1 2 1 1 33 4 1 1 3 1 4 2 1 5 2 2 1 2 4 2 1 3 2 2 31 4
UK
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 Posted: March 20, 2009, 1:47 pm - IP Logged

Hi CARBOB

I don't think that idea will work, if you remove the duplicate numbers from any string then that string will not take match 6 to future draws simply becuase there will be short string!

I have to think about it a bit

Moses

Park City, UT
United States
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January 18, 2009
994 Posts
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 Posted: March 20, 2009, 7:05 pm - IP Logged

Hi Jim

I see that you still have your problem and couldn’t rectify if! Here is two clues

I called the name of this program “Rotating Bridging Board”

The repeats are in exact locations

What you have to remember all the sequences have over 2400 repeats did your program find the all seven numbers in any format or settings?

The draws are created from two halves plus the centre ball, I have posted a thread “National Lottery website” in lottopost.co.uk showing the relationships between the draws and how we can use it in order to predict numbers!

All the draws are based 1 2 3 – Centre ball—3 2 1

But there is more to tell you in due course

Moses

Hello,

I noticed you keep using "Bridging", well that can mean many things to different people.  I'm not sure what you mean "did your program find all the seven numbers in any format or settings".  I created 49 sets of 6279 numbers for a total of 307671 generated drawings .  Set 1 using starting belt of 1...25...49,  Set 2 used starting belt of 2...26...1,  and so on upto  Set 49 using starting belt of 49...25...1.  So essentially I rotated the belts around using different initial seed values to generate 6279 rotations per belt.  Anyway its your theory and work I was just trying to help out, I wasn't asking for any lines or how to predict numbers for any particular lotto, I thought my computer skills could maybe help you solve your puzzle and find the initial UK lotto draw.  I did make an interesting discovery that I will pursue this weekend though.   I'm pretty sure now though based on what I discovered last night that a UK lotto draw has the first 3 numbers from 1 belt and the next 3 numbers from a different belt and there combined together to form the first 6 numbers of a draw.  I'm equally convinced that you will not find all numbers from any UK lotto drawing in only 1 belt.  Furthermore based on what I discovered last night I can eliminate certain generated numbers from further consideration(i.e. filtering).  Thats my theory and I'm sticking to it

Jimmy

UK
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 Posted: March 21, 2009, 7:58 am - IP Logged

Hi Jim

At the rotation 6280 you must jump the centre-point, you can do this two ways;

Code your program to change the centre-point at 6280 from 24 to 25 (skip one number or bridge it) this can be done for ONE rotaion or 7 numbers only and then back to 24 centre-point!

I think you can also bridge it for one number only from 24 to 25 and back to 24!

Now when the program get to 6280 by switching the centre point the new loop will appear with new set of numbers!

Like I said in other forums Jim; all these different lotteries are linked one to another and this is how they can avoid too many jackpot winners which I will tell you guys all about that how we get shafted by their system!

Mo

Leamington, Ontario
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December 11, 2003
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 Posted: March 30, 2009, 4:27 pm - IP Logged

...Thanks for that 41-line, 21-number lotto results assembly list, moses! I would like to pick your brain a bit after pointing out some simple observations as outlined below.

...I was trying to compile a similar list for our Canadian National and Ontario Provincial 6/49, 7/47, and 6/45 lotteries, but found myself far short of time and computing speed and power to accomplish the deed properly! I wasn't sure how many lines would be needed to accomplish a tell-tale distribution like yours, but I did spend a small fortune on many commercial lottery software titles that were capable of the job with a little manipulation and forethought.

...The simplest observational effort I previously persued in this direction was to assemble 3 simple lines of 32-33 numbers which would more consistently produce combos with a draw result of 4, 4B, 5, 5B, 6, 6B, 7 and 7B among one or two of the 3 lengthy lines of numbers for most any 6/49 draws ( or comparably close to a 6/49-style draw...example, 7/47, 6/45 ), but this simple assembly requires far too many combos to deal with.

...Basically, I simply observed and joined three obvious lines which included all the numbers in an " up-to- 49-number " lottery to create the larger lines. Trying to guess which of the three larger lines from which the drawn numbers come from is a major undertaking requiring a lot more thought and filtering.

A = 1, 4, 7, 10, 13, 16, 19, 22, 25, 28, 31, 34, 37, 40, 43, 46, 49

B = 2, 5, 8, 11, 14, 17, 20, 23, 26, 29, 32, 35, 38, 41, 44, 47

C = 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18, 21, 24, 27, 30, 33, 36, 39, 42, 45, 48

The total drawn numbers have to come from any of, or all of line A, or B, or C, or combinations thereof.

By combining A+B, and A+C, and B+C, you wind up with one 32-number and two 33-number lines. One of those three lines will usually contain the bulk of the drawn numbers in any 49-number game.

Pond A = A+B=1, 4, 7, 10, 13, 16, 19, 22, 25, 28, 31, 34, 37, 40, 43, 46, 49, 2, 5, 8, 11, 14, 17, 20, 23, 26, 29, 32, 35, 38, 41, 44, 47

Pond B = A+C=1, 4, 7, 10, 13, 16, 19, 22, 25, 28, 31, 34, 37, 40, 43, 46, 49, 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18, 21, 24, 27, 30, 33, 36, 39, 42, 45, 48

Pond C = B+C=2, 5, 8, 11, 14, 17, 20, 23, 26, 29, 32, 35, 38, 41, 44, 47, 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18, 21, 24, 27, 30, 33, 36, 39, 42, 45, 48

You can check any lottery results ( games up to 49 numbers ) against those three ponds of numbers to see if any one line corners the jackpot numbers more often than not. For fun, I will demonstrate my simple point using the draw results of Canada's March 20, 2009 National Lotto Super 7 ( 7/47 ) draw.

The published Lotto Super 7 Canada results were  10, 23, 28, 29, 31, 32, 46, B3

Pond A contains the drawn numbers of  10, 23, 28, 29, 31, 32, 46 ( Jackpot was in this pond )!

Pond B contains the drawn numbers of  10, 28, 31, 46, B3

Pond C contains the drawn numbers of  23, 29, 32, B3

The March 20/09 Canada Super 7 draw jackpot was in Pond A, ...now if only there was a way to have guessed that! I think moses' list can steer me to the right pond if we add a few functions to an Excel Spreadsheet with his list put to test.

...I believe that your 41-line list of 21-numbers each is a similar but refined distribution based on mathematical calculations using actual results, whereas my three ponds did not require anything but observation even though the larger lines are more capable of cornering larger prises for those who can buy millions of tickets!

...I copied and pasted your list straight from your post to notepad in text form as is, and then opened it as a text file in Excel, later saving it as an .xls file for the Excel spreadsheet...but I don't know enough about Excel to do some phreaky things I want to do with your list.

...If you can help moses, or if any innocent bystanders can help with this, I would like to see your 45-line, 21-number list ( or any other lists you have assembled ), on an excel spreadsheet, and perhaps have a large search input line at the top of the sheet where I can enter from 1 to 36 different digits to automatically search for hits within your list on the spreadsheet, and also highlighting those distinct hits in different colours...For instance, all hits ending with zero in your list will be a color of your choosing, and all hits ending with a 1 will be a different colour, as will those hits ending in 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 for easy tracking.

...Entering only the current draw results in that input window will show us your original point with your list, and being able to enter " test digits " of up to 36 different digits are for those of us who still use the ponds theory, or play with ( or design ) predictive software which spits out many numbers to play and input...so that we may see what possible outcomes your distribution list provides. Your list might be able to help steer us to pick more favourable numbers if you can include those added functions with an Excel Spreadsheet.

Thanks.

LottoHackJack

UK
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 Posted: March 30, 2009, 6:24 pm - IP Logged

Hello LottoHackJack

Firstly I have no knowledge of Excel or spreadsheet and therefore I do not know what you are trying to achieve as result but using unspecific ponds and over 21 numbers will be costly and also it cannot direct you to future and specific numbers but here what I did, take the latest UK four results and search for match 6s from 41 lines

27/03/2009,25,33,36,38,42,06,07 --- Euro

28/03/2009,31,02,28,47,17,19,14 --- Lotto

28/03/2009,34,30,05,33,29,01 ------ Thunder

28/03/2009,10,12,21,27,14,22,04 --- Daily

Line 04 takes match 6 to Euro and if I feed this line as seed search and find match 6 for line 04 then line 09 has six numbers matching to line 04!

When you put these two lines side by side then you'll see the other lottery numbers will line up to Euro!

10 06 21 20 48 47 14 34 41 07 44 03 39 36 25 49 26 19 38 42 29 (04) Euro 33 missing

17 30 29 47 04 12 05 21 26 37 43 38 49 09 46 28 24 31 01 13 18 (09)

If I repeat the same practice for other draw like lotto

37 32 48 08 20 35 14 27 19 06 38 23 29 47 02 30 24 28 17 39 01 (16) Lotto 31 missing

2501 27 04 31 09 37 16 45 26 08 40 22 07 42 29 15 03 43 34 24 (01)

Then you see some of Euro numbers are in exact location to Thunder ball and lotto to Euro etc which can be used as guideline! (number 37,13 was in previous lotto draw)

This is what I said at the very beginning that those lines has ball position significance and much better of than pond numbers!

What makes the 21 combinations difficult is to find match 6 for every draw within 41 lines!

I am still waiting for someone to come up with some idea to filter the lines!

Currently I am trying to reduce the numbers to 13 rather than 21 and if they perform the same as 21 then I will let you have them too!

Moses

Leamington, Ontario
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December 11, 2003
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 Posted: March 30, 2009, 10:18 pm - IP Logged

...So, then, moses...Did this exercise in your example above actually help you to pick winning numbers for the next set of lottery draws, or did it merely help you to prove that G-Tech/Camelot is perpetrating an unfair conspiracy against the players, which you are now uncovering and exposing?

Thanks.

LottoHackJack

UK
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 Posted: March 31, 2009, 3:55 am - IP Logged

Hello LottoHackJack

I know this much that lotteries are not random and also all the different draws are linked and they switch numbers between these draws and they use the same belt as I provided information for it! One of my reasons is that I have collected over 400 tickets which one line (all 6 numbers) took match to lotto draw but 3/4 numbers in lotto draw one number in daily draw and one number in thunder ball draw!

This can happen once or twice but not 400 times, the ticket which could have won jackpot it can only win small prize so I stopped playing lottery all together and started to develop a universal scenario which can cover all angles and all lotteries but it is expensive and time consuming to play as it will cost 6-8k and the main problem is fill the play slips!

GTECH (provider) and all subscribers are committing unlawful lottery game and thought as long as they keep the machines and the balls in safe custody beyond people reach then the lottery will be protected for life but they got it all wrong!

Here is an article to prove they are all in it together!

Camelot group to sue G-tech over UK Lottery Commission decision

Monday August 28th 2000

The Camelot group says it will take legal action against its software supplier GTECH Holdings Crop, because of the reasons its bid to run the lottery for the next seven-years period was rejected by the UK National Lottery Commission. GTECH took two years to tell the Lottery Commission about a glitch in its software that duplicate some winning lottery tickets.

Although GTECH announced last month Chairman William O’Conner’s replacement because of the software glitch, the Lottery Commission says that it “remain extremely concerned” about “GTECH” culture and conduct. “In 1994, Camelot bided against the People’s Lottery Ltd, headed by Richard Branson, to win UK lottery license. This time, the Lottery Commission will negotiate exclusively with Branson’s group.

“I think Camelot should consider forgetting going to court, bowing out gracefully and letting the People’s Lottery get on with the job “says Branson”

The Providence has the story from Bloomberg News

Questions

What software they are talking about if lottery is random?

How can GTECH duplicate winning tickets?

Is it before 7:30 deadline or after, either way it is impossible!

Moses

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 Posted: April 1, 2009, 3:45 am - IP Logged

...So, then, moses...Did this exercise in your example above actually help you to pick winning numbers for the next set of lottery draws, or did it merely help you to prove that G-Tech/Camelot is perpetrating an unfair conspiracy against the players, which you are now uncovering and exposing?

Thanks.

LottoHackJack

Take a (quick pick) lucky dip scenario.

Camelot dont know how many people will play the lucky dip on any any one day...they can only estimate based on previous draws.

If software is used to generate lucky dip numbers then what's to stop the software from generating 100+ potential jackpot winners or millions of £10 winners? Probability says it can happen but it has never happened on any lottery.

So there has to be some mechanism to control what numbers sets are generated and how many sets of of the same number. So already you have a system of control over something that, we have been lead to believe is random. What lottery website mentions the word random in its number selection process?

UK
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 Posted: April 1, 2009, 6:49 am - IP Logged

Hi Newb

This is a fair point but try this next time! If you have 5 lines ticket (your own selections) and after you bought your ticket then ask for one lucky dip then you'll find some of your numbers in lucky dip again which raise a question, does the machine know that your numbers are already a loser?

I think it is irrelevant how the machines are generating the numbers for lucky dip because the actual calculation does not start half an hour after the deadline!

My question is why they need the deadline? In horse racing or any other sport you can place your bid until the final moments and there is no deadline so why in lottery there must be 1/2 hour break if no more?

"Calculation Time"

Moses

Leamington, Ontario
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 Posted: April 1, 2009, 10:52 am - IP Logged

Hi Newb

This is a fair point but try this next time! If you have 5 lines ticket (your own selections) and after you bought your ticket then ask for one lucky dip then you'll find some of your numbers in lucky dip again which raise a question, does the machine know that your numbers are already a loser?

I think it is irrelevant how the machines are generating the numbers for lucky dip because the actual calculation does not start half an hour after the deadline!

My question is why they need the deadline? In horse racing or any other sport you can place your bid until the final moments and there is no deadline so why in lottery there must be 1/2 hour break if no more?

"Calculation Time"

Moses

...There certainly is that off-chance that the draw results can be manipulated or adjusted to some degree in a true conspiracy fashion if the draws are not televised live in real time. Whether a half an hour of " deadline " time is enough time to accomplish that massive feat is debate-able.

...The ticket-vending deadline is probably required to make sure that all vending machines are offline and disabled before the draw, so that the vendors/public-at-large cannot purchase a winning ticket combo after the draw has already occurred and been made official.

...I am surprised somewhat that there are so many jackpot rollovers in many lottery draws anywhere at any one time. One would think that, because so many people play similar numbers, such as birthday numbers, or unwittingly pick combos utilising other common numbers, ( like 1,2,3,4,5,6 ), that there should be many draws where the jackpot will need to be split among hundres if not thousands of winners. This does happen occasionally in the lower tier prize groups, where a third tier prize pays out less than a second tier win because so many people played the same combos.

If there should ever really be a legalised manipulation of quick-picks, it should be such that no lottery vending machine should ever produce a quick-pick/lucky-dip ticket combo which is the same as anyone else's issue, until all possible combos for that draw are sold, so as to ensure a winner every draw.

...Even still, some might cry foul, because you would notice that not all jackpots are claimed even though a winning quick-pick combo was issued...people just don't check their tickets before the deadline, or they mistakenly check the numbers against the wrong lottery results from a different 6/49 game, or the wrong draw date, ( or checking the numbers against those reported by the various media...papers, radio, TV, website... who may actually post the wrong results for the game you played ).  The ticket may have been put aside for a while, and a holder may inadvertently toss a winning combo into a vendor's garbage pail!

... If the vendors checked all the tossed tickets in their stores, they would find some winners, probably lower-tiered, but then they would get blamed for cheating the customers. The lottery commissions have a heyday at pointing the finger away from themselves...

...When I check my tickets, I use many sources to make sure they all report the same results for the draw date and game I played, and the results for me are usually the same...no win...It might pay for someone's second look or second opinion before tossing an almost stale ticket...

LottoHackJack

BC
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 Posted: April 1, 2009, 12:04 pm - IP Logged

[Quote]  Camelot group to sue G-tech over UK Lottery Commission decision

Monday August 28th 2000

The Camelot group says it will take legal action against its software supplier GTECH Holdings Crop, because of the reasons its bid to run the lottery for the next seven-years period was rejected by the UK National Lottery Commission. GTECH took two years to tell the Lottery Commission about a glitch in its software that duplicate some winning lottery tickets.

Although GTECH announced last month Chairman William O’Conner’s replacement because of the software glitch, the Lottery Commission says that it “remain extremely concerned” about “GTECH” culture and conduct. “In 1994, Camelot bided against ...

... <rest snipped for brevity> ... [/quote]

It seems that the above is not a direct quote of the article, in fact it even looks altered somewhat, I'd go as far as to say that it looks convoluted .... ie: Camelot "bided agaist" - bided <-- verb: abided (archaic) doesn't fit a proper journalistic style.

In any case, to accuse GTECH of wilfully manipulating the results ("committing unlawful lottery") is a long stretch. GTECH was guilty of not reporting a screwup in their software.  But what really happened was that along side of (simultaneously with) some play slips, as they were being submitted and printed into tickets, their software apparently produced some "phantom" tickets.

Over the course of a few years that amounted to about "0.001%" of all plays, and none of the phantom tickets affected prizes higher than #3 or #4, or to put it another way no prize of £500 or higher was affected.

Also, none of these virtual tickets were generated after the "deadline", and none of these "virtual" tickets could be cashed ... although they did skew some lower payouts and thus "shafted" some players somewhat, mostly to the tune of £1 (that's about 1.5 US bucks these days).

So, was GTECH guilty of covering up their incompetence? Yes ... but did they willfully alter draws? Was there some kind of conspiracy to defraud the playing public?

I think not, but you can decide for yourselves, here are some links to articles and reports from that time period which are still available:

Camelot admits Lottery security glitch: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/765164.stm

PLAYERS FUND RECEIVES COMPENSATION & RETAILERS REFUNDED: http://nds.coi.gov.uk/Content/Detail.asp?ReleaseID=39878&NewsAreaID=2&print=true

Excerpt:  [Quote] ... 3. The fault generated 156,493 out of 14.3 billion transactions (0.001% of all transactions in the period) in 9 draws. 55,858 winning tickets lost a total of #56,839.

4. No prizes of #500 or more were affected. A typical match 4 win is between #50-100, affected prizes were reduced by between #1 and #3. The majority of tickets were underpaid by about #1. [/quote]

if at first you don't succeed ... destroy all evidence you ever tried

UK
United Kingdom
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 Posted: April 1, 2009, 4:53 pm - IP Logged

Lottoshlep

You seem to rememebring well by defending GTECH ....so is that story true or not? If not, then why the replaced the chair? I don't really think your suggestion is correct because Lottery Commission forced Camelot to purchase the software from GTECH and of course this cannot be over few hundred pounds?

You should remember this, in gambling there is no trust and if there is gambling then there is a way of cheating! Every lottery operator cheats in different ways and means!

Moses

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