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How many pre-test draws are normal?

Topic closed. 39 replies. Last post 7 years ago by PERDUE.

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Dead_Aim's avatar - canstock2002989

United States
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August 20, 2004
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Posted: December 1, 2009, 3:40 am - IP Logged

It is true about the balls and machines being traded out but the difference between them are minuscule. The blowers have to be within a certain range and the balls have to weigh within a certain amount and we are talking very little differences they are allowed.

As far as pre-testing, it is not so much to see if the machine is working as to make sure you don't have the same numbers pop up over and over. For example, 3 sets of double 7s might trigger another drawing because of the 7s popping out more than to be expected. This was explained in a drawing tour I took.

Regardless of the amount of pre-test done. if the number remains constant it really should not make any difference. For instance, if they do 3 before, 1 after, and that remains constance, all your tracking will be based on the 4th drawing every time and if nothing changes it will be the 4th number again that will be the one for the cash. Then again, if anything changes or does not fall within range and they have to make an extra pre-test drawing everything is out the window.

Where they rip people a new one now is when the whole process is done with computer drawings. Not only do they do the same testing as above but they also take random choices at using 3 different hard drives to get their numbers. All of which, can and probably does use different starting seeds making it practically impossible to track with any possible certainty. Now compound that with the fact it may take them a week to get back to using drive A, B or C depending on the which of the 3 drives were selected each day for the drawing. 

Thud

Best case scenario for computer games is to stop playing completely, get all your friends to stop playing as well and when the lottery well dries up they may decide to switch back to the lesser of two evils and give back the balls. Then again, the money hungry government would probably just raise taxes before they decide to switch back just for spite. 

Don't Chase... Compare and Narrow

The Cheaper the Cost the Higher the Profit

Many Winners to You.

D_A


    United States
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    Posted: December 1, 2009, 7:13 pm - IP Logged
    people think it's an unfair disadvantage for them to do pre test. I beg to differ because they change balls and machines for every drawing. The machine that was used for pick 3 might be in a pick 4 spot in position 2 and so on. The balls they used for tomorrows afternoon drawing might be locked in a cabinet and not used for 10 drawings from the midday drawing. pre tests are a part of the security measures.

    That's another problem I forgot to address. Tube rotation.

    I wish I had the article from the Daily News in N.Y. when I lived there. The issue in the article pertained to a question posed by a reader asking about tube rotations and why they decided to stop showing the new configuration of the tubes for the next drawing. There was a time when they would show the public what tubes were being used and what position, and then one day they decided to stop publishing that info. When asked why, a lottery official in the article stated that it was to prevent patterns from forming.

     

    If the argument is that the reason for pre-tests is to catch any possible tampering of the machines, that's fine, even though I think it's bull, but what about tube rotation? Preservation of the balls?.......NOT !

     

     

      LANTERN's avatar - kilroy 28_173_reasonably_small.jpg
      Tx
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      Posted: December 1, 2009, 10:00 pm - IP Logged

      One more reason to want to play online, if your state does pre-tests and post-tests or just too many pre-tests, maybe you would like to play another game where they do few pre-tests and no post-tests, I am aware of the changing of ball sets and machines and that is bad, but that does not mean that because of that, we have to like or at least not be bothered by pre and post tests.

      I also know that random is said to be unpredictable and mostly lottery random, in which case it does not matter at all what they do or they don't and or how all that is done or not, but I know better than that.

      So everything that is done and or not done, does matter.

      This is lesson # 1:

      "There is no such thing as random"

      For every action there is a reaction.

      The universe was not made neither by random nor random.

      The Creator is a Lord of Order.

      BibleOnline  ParishesOnline  ChristianRadioOnline   MassOnline   Mass

      "Ten measures of beauty descended to the world, nine were taken by Jerusalem."

        Tenaj's avatar - michellea
        Charlotte NC
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        Posted: December 1, 2009, 10:12 pm - IP Logged
        people think it's an unfair disadvantage for them to do pre test. I beg to differ because they change balls and machines for every drawing. The machine that was used for pick 3 might be in a pick 4 spot in position 2 and so on. The balls they used for tomorrows afternoon drawing might be locked in a cabinet and not used for 10 drawings from the midday drawing. pre tests are a part of the security measures.

        It's a given to test the machines to see if they work properly.  It's the number of times it's done is what is in question.  Is so many necessary?  And how many other states have as many pre-test draws as NC.

        takeemtothebank

          four4me's avatar - gate1
          MD
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          Posted: December 1, 2009, 10:51 pm - IP Logged

          That's another problem I forgot to address. Tube rotation.

          I wish I had the article from the Daily News in N.Y. when I lived there. The issue in the article pertained to a question posed by a reader asking about tube rotations and why they decided to stop showing the new configuration of the tubes for the next drawing. There was a time when they would show the public what tubes were being used and what position, and then one day they decided to stop publishing that info. When asked why, a lottery official in the article stated that it was to prevent patterns from forming.

           

          If the argument is that the reason for pre-tests is to catch any possible tampering of the machines, that's fine, even though I think it's bull, but what about tube rotation? Preservation of the balls?.......NOT !

           

           

          While i do know lot about Garron plastics lottery machines and balls i don't know if their machines have replaceable tubes. If i remember correctly their fixed in place. I could be wrong as in the old days they might have been but i haven't inspected one in a while.... about 5 years ago i was at the Maryland state fair and they did a drawing there and you could get within three feet of them.

          Personally i don't care if they take the machines completely apart reassemble them with new or old components. If they take them out back and run over them with a truck and put any left over good pieces back together into how many ever machines they can salvage from the junk.

          What i care the most about is security and tampering. Like can a ball attendant weigh and somehow manage to mark certain special weighed balls during the weighing process and see that they get packaged as a special set of balls chosen to derive a certain outcome. Or just by fudging 7 out of ten balls on the heavy side and leaving 3 balls light all within weighing tolerance's if that can affect the out come of the drawing. Very similar to a card shark marking cards. And if that is possible can he/she do it enough times to make a killing off the lottery by having an outside partner bet his/her supposed winning numbers. It would be nothing for a person have someone buy 100 tickets for them at different stores reaping the rewards and moving on to the next time around.

          I don't care if they do a thousand pre tests i only are about the official drawing and what balls are drawn in the history of the game.

          Big John says. You don't hit the number. The number hits you!!!!

                         I'm not Big John, I'm Four4me, Big John's a friend.
            four4me's avatar - gate1
            MD
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            Posted: December 1, 2009, 10:54 pm - IP Logged

            It's a given to test the machines to see if they work properly.  It's the number of times it's done is what is in question.  Is so many necessary?  And how many other states have as many pre-test draws as NC.

            I heard Buddy Roogow the former lottery director say the industry standard is three pre draws one official drawing and three after draws all recorded all archived. Exactly how many states do it i not sure. Contact them with your question they will probably oblige you

            Big John says. You don't hit the number. The number hits you!!!!

                           I'm not Big John, I'm Four4me, Big John's a friend.
              LANTERN's avatar - kilroy 28_173_reasonably_small.jpg
              Tx
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              Posted: December 2, 2009, 12:49 am - IP Logged

              To me the worst thing is not how many pre-tests, post-tests, change of balls and machines they do, they could do a Million of them every-day and that would not help them any at all.

              The real problem is that they have a way of knowing if they want to which or what combinations were bought way before the drawings, again another reason to want to play online, but not with the state lotteries.

              Yes, a Billion pre-tests and another Billion post-tests would not matter as much as their being able to know in advance the combinations that were bought, this being mostly important for jackpot kind of games.

              Now, if they don't really monitor which combinations were bought, then, the rest of whatever they do or might do does not matter at all so long as the drawings are not tampered with in some way, regular honest drawn pre and post tests are O.K.

              As such things can be beat, as pointed out, all that really matters is the history of the winning numbers, no matter how many pre and post tests are being done, provided that everything is done in a honest way and that nothing is fixed or tampered with.

              BibleOnline  ParishesOnline  ChristianRadioOnline   MassOnline   Mass

              "Ten measures of beauty descended to the world, nine were taken by Jerusalem."

                four4me's avatar - gate1
                MD
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                Posted: December 2, 2009, 1:35 am - IP Logged

                In Maryland a draw person enters the locked secured ball room with other members of the draw team and fires up a computer then a program on that PC when activated tells them what machines and balls sets will be used for the midday drawing. A four hour long treatment of the balls and machines is accomplished, weighing and measuring the balls etc. This is an every day twice a day 365 days a year event for pick 3/4/5, pick 6 games twice a week 52 weeks.

                I'm glad they do it i hope they continue to do it. At least there not sitting around playing tidily winks.

                Big John says. You don't hit the number. The number hits you!!!!

                               I'm not Big John, I'm Four4me, Big John's a friend.
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                  Honduras
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                  Posted: December 2, 2009, 6:00 am - IP Logged

                  I just thought about this...Pre-test can be tricky or a trap also for like Pick5 and Pick6 games...I dont know if every combination play is recorded...But they can play the first pretest and check if there is a winner and check from what location the winner is comming from...They do it again and if the winner is coming from the same location it will raise suspicion...If they do it a third time and is coming from the same location/city they will know something is up...Not that they can go chasing the players but for that reason they can add more pretest...This occurred to me a couple of month ago but is now that i am writing about it...

                  and if they do several pretest for several days and the winner is coming from the same location they can have a team go to those location/cities look at cameras look at the person find out who it was and then come banging at your door...not that they will do it but you never know...

                  The Forex trades: 1.6 Trillion dollars EVERY day, that´s more than the GDP of the Carribbean Central America, COMBINED. Enough to feed every crook out there for centuries...To all Geniuses & Powers Countries of the World the Planet needs breakthroughs in all Medicine, Veterinary, Biology related fields, Psychology, Population Psychology/Sociology..They need to genetically ingeneer new plants species/types to give more variety of plants and thus have more resources for combating diseases¨


                   


                   


                   

                   


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                    Honduras
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                    Posted: December 2, 2009, 6:27 am - IP Logged

                    I play lottery, i am a lottery player AND YET i feel like a hacker...where you got to watch over your back, becareful they dont catch you, be one step ahead of their contrameasures, trying to sneak in without been detected or sounding the alarm those are all characteristics of a hacker and yet i feel like a hacker with all those pretest, they spying on you, they having cameras on the gas stations...you probably heard me mentioned it on my blog several times...AND YET UNLIKE A HACKER I A PAYING FOR MY TICKET, I AM PAYING FOR MY TICKET AND I AM GIVING 1 DOLLAR AWAY ALL THE TIME it is thanks to me that the Hope scholarship is alive and yet i am treated like a hacker...And want to know something...We are not doing anything illegal and hackers do and yet hackers make more money than us, we dont make any money...When was the last time you heard an LP player came up with a system that help him win 90 million dolllars on Powerball, you never heard about it, not here no place in the world...Yet hackers do stuff illegal and you hear them pull out stunts where they take home with them a goo chunk of money....A hacker can take his own home and create a email password cracking to the public and SUCCEEED, can a lottery player take his own house and create a lottery prediction website? First he needs like 5,000 members and he got to prove that he can overcome the pre-tests...

                    The Forex trades: 1.6 Trillion dollars EVERY day, that´s more than the GDP of the Carribbean Central America, COMBINED. Enough to feed every crook out there for centuries...To all Geniuses & Powers Countries of the World the Planet needs breakthroughs in all Medicine, Veterinary, Biology related fields, Psychology, Population Psychology/Sociology..They need to genetically ingeneer new plants species/types to give more variety of plants and thus have more resources for combating diseases¨


                     


                     


                     

                     


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                      Honduras
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                      Posted: December 2, 2009, 6:46 am - IP Logged

                      not only that...A hacker hacks something or a big place if he gets caught he risks some time in prison...If you come out with a system that can crack the lotto you risk GETTING KILLED FOR IT....and maybe they will not do anything to you in the USA but try that crap of people knowing that you got a system that can crack the lotto try that in parts of Africa or Irak, or Pakistan or maybe Colombia or maybe Brazil maybe Russia...try and you will see....

                      a hacker can do his work at the comfort of his home without nobody knowing who he is...a lotto player has to drag himself to a gas station at the eyes of EVERYONE SEEING HIM/HER and he better buy something when he is playing the ticket because clerks and people behind you get really mad and he better not buy more than 5 lotto tickets at once...and if he lives in another area he better be prepared to pay: $2 for each powerball ticket or $3 for his own lotto...

                      The Forex trades: 1.6 Trillion dollars EVERY day, that´s more than the GDP of the Carribbean Central America, COMBINED. Enough to feed every crook out there for centuries...To all Geniuses & Powers Countries of the World the Planet needs breakthroughs in all Medicine, Veterinary, Biology related fields, Psychology, Population Psychology/Sociology..They need to genetically ingeneer new plants species/types to give more variety of plants and thus have more resources for combating diseases¨


                       


                       


                       

                       


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                        Honduras
                        Member #20982
                        August 29, 2005
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                        Posted: December 2, 2009, 7:20 am - IP Logged

                        Also never thought about this but Powerball is a: Pick5/59 + Pick1/43 that's correct but if it has pretests let's say it has 5 pretests is more like a: Pick5/59 + Pick1/43 + Pick1/5...

                        you are probably going to say: that's not true..Really well what if it had 1 million pretest then what are you going to say? You see it now...

                        does a hacker have to climb that? no probably something like a Pick3 or Pick4...While a lotto gambler has to climb like how you all saw a: 600 million odds just to win Powerball..And tha't with a system with quick picks is like a 1.2 billion odds for Powerball...And if the lotto gambler is an elderly....GOD HELP US...

                        i dont care what anybody tells me i can see with my eyes...

                        and yet we are treated like hackers...

                        1 year of hackers work worth is equal 40 years of lotto gamblers work worth...And a hacker gets paid better than a lotto gambler that won 90 million dollars because  like how i said before on my blog acquaring 20 million dollars or 25 million dollars is the same as winning 125 million dollars on the lotto...

                        The Forex trades: 1.6 Trillion dollars EVERY day, that´s more than the GDP of the Carribbean Central America, COMBINED. Enough to feed every crook out there for centuries...To all Geniuses & Powers Countries of the World the Planet needs breakthroughs in all Medicine, Veterinary, Biology related fields, Psychology, Population Psychology/Sociology..They need to genetically ingeneer new plants species/types to give more variety of plants and thus have more resources for combating diseases¨


                         


                         


                         

                         


                          Avatar
                          Kentucky
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                          February 14, 2006
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                          Posted: December 2, 2009, 12:40 pm - IP Logged

                          Losers see their numbers come up in one of the pretest drawings and think they might have won if that drawing had been official and the winners are glad the pretest drawings weren't the official drawing.

                          Odds are if a pick3 player watched 4 or 5 drawings pretest or official and plays 10 lines, all of the numbers in one of his lines are likely to be in one of the drawings 20-30% of the time.

                          When the pick-3 game first started in Ohio I needed a 3 digit number from 000 to 999 to play and chose the 3 digit number on my license plate and then I sat back and hoped the random 3 digit number that was drawn, matched my number. I've always thought the idea was to have a random drawing so every player's number had a fair and equal chance of being drawn. Players want to see the a live drawing and if the machinery fails, the drawing must be done off air.

                          The design of the payoffs gives the lotteries a 50% edge on their volume of play so there is no reason to cheat players to create less volume. The design of the game entices player to continue playing because there are 27 ways any straight can be "one number off". A 2 if 3 of 10 digits wheel can be made with less than 10 combinations and those box combos will be "one number off" in about 72% of the drawings when 3 different digits are drawn and many times when doubles are drawn. Players will always close and that's why the lotteries can count on them to keep on playing.

                          The down side of publishing test drawing results is they are not known in time for a player to purchase tickets based on them and it seems like some here see it as a slap in the face when "their number" is drawn during one of the tests. Ohio has drawn the pick-3 for 30 years with thousands of test drawings so if there is a flow or pattern from the official drawing results, testing the equipment before today's drawing would have no affect because the past official results flow or patterns already reflect the past testing.

                          The game is exactly the same as it was 30 years ago; buy a ticket with any 3 digit number and hope drawing matches it.

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                            Kentucky
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                            Posted: December 2, 2009, 1:09 pm - IP Logged

                            Also never thought about this but Powerball is a: Pick5/59 + Pick1/43 that's correct but if it has pretests let's say it has 5 pretests is more like a: Pick5/59 + Pick1/43 + Pick1/5...

                            you are probably going to say: that's not true..Really well what if it had 1 million pretest then what are you going to say? You see it now...

                            does a hacker have to climb that? no probably something like a Pick3 or Pick4...While a lotto gambler has to climb like how you all saw a: 600 million odds just to win Powerball..And tha't with a system with quick picks is like a 1.2 billion odds for Powerball...And if the lotto gambler is an elderly....GOD HELP US...

                            i dont care what anybody tells me i can see with my eyes...

                            and yet we are treated like hackers...

                            1 year of hackers work worth is equal 40 years of lotto gamblers work worth...And a hacker gets paid better than a lotto gambler that won 90 million dollars because  like how i said before on my blog acquaring 20 million dollars or 25 million dollars is the same as winning 125 million dollars on the lotto...

                            "Also never thought about this but Powerball is a: Pick5/59 + Pick1/43 that's correct but if it has pretests let's say it has 5 pretests is more like a: Pick5/59 + Pick1/43 + Pick1/5..."

                            That's really no different than looking through a stack of losing QPs and finding out you had tonight's winning numbers had you played them.

                              paurths's avatar - underground
                              Switching between Fairfax, VA and Belgium
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                              Posted: December 2, 2009, 4:42 pm - IP Logged

                              If they would post the pre-test results (and any other test-results) at least a few hours before the actual draw, that would be great, then they can do as many pre-tests as they like for all i care, i would take them into my statistics, and they would look alot different then.
                              Some statistics go really into the extreme because of the lack of draws in the database. They "violate" all the tests i have done so far with an own RNG.
                              If for example a set  of 100 numbers stay out for 140 draws, then you can bet your life that some numbers of that set have fallen in the test-draws.
                              Yet, it messes  up the stats...

                              lasas3

                              An onion a day keeps everyone away!!!