Welcome Guest
Log In | Register )
You last visited January 19, 2017, 6:21 pm
All times shown are
Eastern Time (GMT-5:00)

POLL - On The Whole Do The Lotteries Provide Truly Random Numbers?

Topic closed. 104 replies. Last post 6 years ago by Hermanus104.

Page 7 of 7
51
PrintE-mailLink

From Quick Picks to Winning Numbers, Are We Getting Truly Random Numbers from the Various Lotteries?

Yes [ 29 ]  [29.59%]
No [ 52 ]  [53.06%]
Don't know/Don't care/Doesn't matter to me [ 11 ]  [11.22%]
Other [ 6 ]  [6.12%]
Total Valid Votes [ 98 ]  
Discarded Votes [ 1 ]  
Tenaj's avatar - michellea
Charlotte NC
United States
Member #17406
June 18, 2005
4054 Posts
Offline
Posted: August 27, 2010, 12:24 am - IP Logged

I voted NO - there is a method to the madness.

takeemtothebank

    Avatar
    Kentucky
    United States
    Member #32652
    February 14, 2006
    7343 Posts
    Offline
    Posted: August 27, 2010, 12:48 am - IP Logged

    Right now the poll shows 58.3% don't believe the numbers are true and fair..These people should not be playing the lottery if they don't trust it..Buy your ticket win or lose and stop complaining about it..Find some other form of gambling if you "need" to gamble..

    Yep, it's just like saying "even though I know I'm getting cheated, I'll keep on playing".

      Avatar
      NY
      United States
      Member #23835
      October 16, 2005
      3502 Posts
      Offline
      Posted: August 27, 2010, 12:53 am - IP Logged

      If I was to sue, I would argue that Buying a ticket with a certain number of lines was buying a certain number of chances at various prizes.   If the numbers that the machine chose were identical or overlapped then I would not have received as many chances for my money as I would've had they be different.

      For example,  imagine a pick 6 game where the lowest value subsidiary prize was awarded for a 3/6 match.   The two tickets 1-2-3-4-5-6- and 1-2-3-4-5-7 would represent 30 chances at that lowest value prize while the two tickets 1-2-3-4-5-6 and 7-8-9-10-11-12 would represent 40 chances at that lowest value prize.   Shouldn't the first two tickets cost only 75% that of the second two tickets?

      Am I wagering the numbers or am I buying chances.   If I bought personal picks then clearly I'm wagering the numbers I believe would be drawn but if I'm buying QuickPicks then I'm obviously am after the chances to win and don't care about the numbers hence QuickPicks should have the option to not repeat and not overlap on a given ticket with multiple lines.   If the lottery commision sold me two lines on a ticket by QP that were 1-2-3-4-5-6 and 1-2-3-7-8-9, they are shortchanging me because both tickets would have the 1-2-3 combination but if they were 1-2-3-4-5-6 and 1-2-7-8-9-10 then there would be no 3 number overlap and hence I would get all the chances I could've possibly bought with my money.

      You may buy them at the same time, but you're buying individual tickets, and each ticket has exactly the same chance as any other ticket.  If the winning numbers were 1,2,3,10,11,12  you'd win two 3/6 prizes regardless of which pair of tickets you had gotten. If the winning numbers were 1,2,3,15,16,17  you'd win 2 prizes with the first pair of tickets, but only 1 prize with the second pair. You may cover a wider range of possible combinations with  one pair vs the other pair, but the overall odds remain the same. The only thing that changes is the distribution of the prizes. The lottery agreed to sell you tickets with numbers that were picked randomly. That's what you got, so you've got no cause of action.

        jarasan's avatar - new patrick.gif
        Harbinger
        D.C./MD.
        United States
        Member #44103
        July 30, 2006
        5587 Posts
        Online
        Posted: August 27, 2010, 7:34 am - IP Logged

        I'm talking about the Keno run by lottery commissions not the networked VLT's.   The specific one I'm considering spans three commissions and the draw is done centrally, audited and then broadcasted to the Casinos, only one of the three jurisdictions require that Keno be limited to the Casino, the other two allow Keno to be played where-ever draw lotteries are played i.e.: convenience stores.   They are government commissions so it's reasonable to believe that both practically and politically, they will not base the draw machine choice on wagers placed.   The draws are every 5 minutes and hence the wagers can be placed virtually immediately before a draw leaving little time to do something across the system.   Once the machine has been chosen, it's unlikely to be changed for the day but that's not guaranteed.   They would only choose from perhaps 3 to 5 machines as would be the case with RNG draw lotteries such as Pick 3's.

        It's not about beating it, it's about can we rig it.   I'm not planning on wagering any significant amount of money till a strategy can be demonstrated and if the strategy works, a significant wager would not be needed.   Its not like we're wheeling.

        I am specifcally talking about Maryland Keno played in bars, stores etc. What am describing is the manner in which the game outcome is determined and run "NOW" in the present. 

        It is naive to believe what you wrote here:

        "They are government commissions so it's reasonable to believe that both practically and politically, they will not base the draw machine choice on wagers placed.   The draws are every 5 minutes and hence the wagers can be placed virtually immediately before a draw leaving little time to do something across the system.   Once the machine has been chosen, it's unlikely to be changed for the day but that's not guaranteed.   They would only choose from perhaps 3 to 5 machines as would be the case with RNG draw lotteries such as Pick 3's."

        The government has no obligation to play fair,  try to go see the MD. KENO operations center and take a look as to how they run the game and payouts.  They can manipulate any facet they want,  period.  Try and sue for disclosure.  The only way to change the game is to stop feeding it money!  When you speak of government you speak of overpaid, overpensioned, over benefitted, leeches that live off the backs of the working people.  And if truth be known all RNG lotteries are a means to drain the pockets of people who don't pay much in state taxes.  The lotteries don't lose money!  They even cap the ball drawn games,  that is a fact.  If someone beats the game they change it.  It happened here in MD with BM5!  They used to pay tax free,  but stopped as soon as someone hit for a multiple!

          butch2030's avatar - DiscoBallGlowing
          The KEY ingredient is Combos & Patterns
          Elgin, IL
          United States
          Member #68867
          January 1, 2009
          1224 Posts
          Offline
          Posted: September 6, 2010, 9:04 am - IP Logged

          My thought on this is that for a game to be truly Random it has to be done in a vacuum where there are no man-made forces acting on it. If it is man made, it will not be truly Random.  Neither on a Lotto Machine nor on a Lotto Computer.  Odds on getting 5 out of 5 numbers on a 5/39 game are 1 in 575,757.  View these results.  Two seperate games with results with less than 2,400 drawings on ea.  Remember the odds of getting all 5 numbers = 1 in 575,757.  Anyone want to calculate what the odds are of these results in under 2.400 games???.  In every pick 5 game & jackpot game that I have researched, I have found combos & patterns in every one of them.  This being the case, I have voted 'NO'.

           .

          Illinois Little Lotto - 5 out of 39 balls
          2006-09-21 1471439
          2009-11-13 1471439
          2005-12-06 1421222636
          2007-04-16 1421222636
          2006-12-15 1531323638
          2008-05-31 1531323638
          2009-03-25 517253738
          2009-05-06 517253738
          2004-09-28 1718262936
          2009-07-25 1718262936
          2006-08-02 156736
          2010-03-25 156736
          2004-06-17 39252634
          2010-08-13 39252634

          Here are 14 drawings out of 2,384 from 02/25/2004 - 09/04/2010

           

           

          Ohio Rolling Cash 5 - 5 out of 39 balls
          2004-10-12 78163436
          2008-12-20 78163436
          2006-04-25 314253537
          2008-03-22 314253537
          2005-02-18 16182439
          2009-09-09 16182439
          2007-06-21 1417202230
          2009-01-04 1417202230
          Here are 8 drawings out of 2,024 from 10/04/2004 - 09/04/2010
            rdgrnr's avatar - walt
            Way back up in them dadgum hills, son!
            United States
            Member #73904
            April 28, 2009
            14903 Posts
            Offline
            Posted: September 6, 2010, 11:44 am - IP Logged

            My thought on this is that for a game to be truly Random it has to be done in a vacuum where there are no man-made forces acting on it. If it is man made, it will not be truly Random.  Neither on a Lotto Machine nor on a Lotto Computer.  Odds on getting 5 out of 5 numbers on a 5/39 game are 1 in 575,757.  View these results.  Two seperate games with results with less than 2,400 drawings on ea.  Remember the odds of getting all 5 numbers = 1 in 575,757.  Anyone want to calculate what the odds are of these results in under 2.400 games???.  In every pick 5 game & jackpot game that I have researched, I have found combos & patterns in every one of them.  This being the case, I have voted 'NO'.

             .

            Illinois Little Lotto - 5 out of 39 balls
            2006-09-21 1471439
            2009-11-13 1471439
            2005-12-06 1421222636
            2007-04-16 1421222636
            2006-12-15 1531323638
            2008-05-31 1531323638
            2009-03-25 517253738
            2009-05-06 517253738
            2004-09-28 1718262936
            2009-07-25 1718262936
            2006-08-02 156736
            2010-03-25 156736
            2004-06-17 39252634
            2010-08-13 39252634

            Here are 14 drawings out of 2,384 from 02/25/2004 - 09/04/2010

             

             

            Ohio Rolling Cash 5 - 5 out of 39 balls
            2004-10-12 78163436
            2008-12-20 78163436
            2006-04-25 314253537
            2008-03-22 314253537
            2005-02-18 16182439
            2009-09-09 16182439
            2007-06-21 1417202230
            2009-01-04 1417202230
            Here are 8 drawings out of 2,024 from 10/04/2004 - 09/04/2010

            Thanks butch, that makes me feel a little better about continuing to play my same Cash5 numbers in VA which came in already a couple years ago (the drawing after my 48 play multidraw expired).

            If your assertion that the numbers aren't random is true, it could well be to the advantage of people who regularly play a line of their "lucky" numbers in addition to their workout numbers or QP's.


                                                         
                                 
                                                     

             

             

             

             

                                                                                                               

            "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

                                                                                                        --Edmund Burke

             

             


              United States
              Member #93947
              July 10, 2010
              2180 Posts
              Offline
              Posted: September 6, 2010, 12:04 pm - IP Logged

              My thought on this is that for a game to be truly Random it has to be done in a vacuum where there are no man-made forces acting on it. If it is man made, it will not be truly Random.  Neither on a Lotto Machine nor on a Lotto Computer.  Odds on getting 5 out of 5 numbers on a 5/39 game are 1 in 575,757.  View these results.  Two seperate games with results with less than 2,400 drawings on ea.  Remember the odds of getting all 5 numbers = 1 in 575,757.  Anyone want to calculate what the odds are of these results in under 2.400 games???.  In every pick 5 game & jackpot game that I have researched, I have found combos & patterns in every one of them.  This being the case, I have voted 'NO'.

               .

              Illinois Little Lotto - 5 out of 39 balls
              2006-09-21 1471439
              2009-11-13 1471439
              2005-12-06 1421222636
              2007-04-16 1421222636
              2006-12-15 1531323638
              2008-05-31 1531323638
              2009-03-25 517253738
              2009-05-06 517253738
              2004-09-28 1718262936
              2009-07-25 1718262936
              2006-08-02 156736
              2010-03-25 156736
              2004-06-17 39252634
              2010-08-13 39252634

              Here are 14 drawings out of 2,384 from 02/25/2004 - 09/04/2010

               

               

              Ohio Rolling Cash 5 - 5 out of 39 balls
              2004-10-12 78163436
              2008-12-20 78163436
              2006-04-25 314253537
              2008-03-22 314253537
              2005-02-18 16182439
              2009-09-09 16182439
              2007-06-21 1417202230
              2009-01-04 1417202230
              Here are 8 drawings out of 2,024 from 10/04/2004 - 09/04/2010

              Butch2030,

              Because of the potential for fraud, I don't trust computerized results selection and believe all draws should be live, witnessed, and televised, physically observable mechanical processes.  However, the observation of results you made above do not prove that the Lottos in question are not as Random as can be expected.  To see why, consider the following:

              The dates are important:  On 2009-11-13, the odds of 01-04-07-14-39 being drawn on 2006-09-21 were 1.0, a CERTAINTY, because it had already happened.  Early on 2009-11-13 the odds of 01-02-03-04-05 being drawn that evening were 1 in 575,757.  But these were also the odds for ANY OTHER COMBINATION being drawn!  And that included: 01-04-07-14-39!

              Now, IF, on 2006-09-20, someone had predicted that 01-04-07-14-39 was going to be drawn the next day AND AGAIN on 2009-11-13, the odds against their prediction coming true would have been 1 in (575757 × 575757), a chance approaching infinitessimal!  If this were to have happened, a SERIOUS investigation of the person making the prediction and the associated lottery personell would have been in order! Smiley

              --Jimmy4164

                butch2030's avatar - DiscoBallGlowing
                The KEY ingredient is Combos & Patterns
                Elgin, IL
                United States
                Member #68867
                January 1, 2009
                1224 Posts
                Offline
                Posted: September 6, 2010, 12:18 pm - IP Logged

                Thanks butch, that makes me feel a little better about continuing to play my same Cash5 numbers in VA which came in already a couple years ago (the drawing after my 48 play multidraw expired).

                If your assertion that the numbers aren't random is true, it could well be to the advantage of people who regularly play a line of their "lucky" numbers in addition to their workout numbers or QP's.

                He is a preveious post I did, just in case you missed it.

                 I am sorry that they are ending the TN Pick 5 on 10/01/10.  But in case anyone missed my last post on the TN Pick 5, here is the file you look at.

                You can view / download combos & patterns found in the Tennessee Pick 5 game at the following:  http://www.box.net/shared/cp89q4j79x

                Please advise of any questions and/or problems.

                Good Luck & Best Wishes To All on the last remaining drawings.

                  Avatar

                  United States
                  Member #97729
                  September 22, 2010
                  321 Posts
                  Offline
                  Posted: September 25, 2010, 5:19 am - IP Logged

                  They are as random as possible with the ball drawings.  The lotteries don't have to cheat.  They are not "pulling some stuff" as is commonly seen in various threads. 

                  For Pick 3s and Pick 4s, they do not manipulate doubles (TN might have been the exception).  They do not manipulate triples.  They do not manipulate quads.

                  Question was, if they are cheating, why play?  Because even if they did cheat, someone can still win.  Speaking of horse races, there were rumors about certain races being fixed.  Didn't stop me, I often had the winner of those questionable races.

                  I believe that they CAN fix the computerized lottery. Here are a few examples:

                  The most simple is that the machines can check all of the number combinations played for that game, and exclude the winners in the case Mega Millions for instance. Well, what about Cash 3 games? The computers would have to pick a winner, but it could pick the number combination that had the fewest numbers that played. That way they could cut back on the amount of winners, and the payout.

                  Here is another theory. Suppose that the last 10 winners of Mega Millions in a row were white. No doubt that cries of racism would abound. Something must be done, they would say. So then the operators of the lotto retailers would be told to press a button after a black person played. Push them up to the top of the list. Or it could be in reverse.

                  If we have lottery software that can increase our odds, you can bet that they will use software that will increase their odds, thus reducing ours. I would like to see the amount collected, and the payout 1 year before, and 1 year after. Don't think for one second that they wouldn't do anything possible to generate an extra million a year. We all know that they would. Their increases in revenue would be subtle, just a little at a time, hoping that we would not notice.

                  I think our odds go down in the end, with electronic lotteries. I know that I would be weary of a computerized lotto.

                    wheeltowin's avatar - bee
                    Peoria IL
                    United States
                    Member #94520
                    July 21, 2010
                    63 Posts
                    Offline
                    Posted: September 25, 2010, 10:52 am - IP Logged

                    Hmmm, the blue pill or the red one? How far down the rabbithole to go. I say other because what we understand as random today will likely be solved by some equation in the future. Human beings trying to explain "random" things, (tornados, floods, death) have come up with some pretty good stories like....oh say "religion", when in actuality weather patterns and hygiene turned out to be the culprits. What's cool about humans is that at least we "question" our world and everything in it. Do I think given the opportunity, a person (or gov. bureaucracy) might manipulate circumstances for personal gain..hell yeah, history is full of it. I also think the "good little sheep" public education has wrought in our soceity are too afraid to think outside the box or risk getting caught for much of that to go on. Just my thoughts..

                    Luck is when opportunity knocks and you answer.

                      rdgrnr's avatar - walt
                      Way back up in them dadgum hills, son!
                      United States
                      Member #73904
                      April 28, 2009
                      14903 Posts
                      Offline
                      Posted: September 25, 2010, 8:20 pm - IP Logged

                      With sufficient time given to vote, it appears that Lottery Post Members by a 2 to 1 margin think the lotteries do not  provide truly random numbers.

                      Thank you for your votes and comments.


                                                                   
                                           
                                                               

                       

                       

                       

                       

                                                                                                                         

                      "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

                                                                                                                  --Edmund Burke

                       

                       

                        Spot-UK's avatar - 521252451 28bff065d5_o.jpg
                        New Member
                        London
                        United Kingdom
                        Member #93634
                        July 4, 2010
                        24 Posts
                        Offline
                        Posted: September 29, 2010, 10:12 am - IP Logged

                        I have no reason to doubt that the numbers drawn are not random, but my analysis of past results show that high, odd numbers in the 30s tend to appear more often than others in the UK 6/49 and 5/39 draws.

                          CutlassBob's avatar - Sphere animated2.gif
                          Harrison Township Michigan
                          United States
                          Member #90088
                          April 21, 2010
                          4265 Posts
                          Offline
                          Posted: October 3, 2010, 2:26 pm - IP Logged

                          I say yes, and randomly normally not the one's i've picked.

                           "You can't handle the truth!" Nicholson.

                            garyo1954's avatar - garyo
                            Dallas, Texas
                            United States
                            Member #4549
                            May 2, 2004
                            1834 Posts
                            Offline
                            Posted: October 3, 2010, 3:55 pm - IP Logged

                            Random events require some conditons apply.

                            For example, one is not likely to be struck by lightning standing in their yard on a cloudless day. That would certainly be a random event.

                              Hermanus104's avatar - 5027340606 1e360c8038_s.jpg
                              Northern Virginia
                              United States
                              Member #83350
                              December 5, 2009
                              1322 Posts
                              Offline
                              Posted: October 22, 2010, 4:32 pm - IP Logged

                              My opinion is that some states have draws that are more random than others....................and some states have stats that are more crooked than others. 

                              Here are some stats that do not appear random from Pennsylvania's midday computer draw:

                              06/06/20101   0   6                Payout
                              03/15/20091   0   6                Payout
                              02/19/20091   0   6                Payout
                              02/10/20091   0   6                Payout
                              01/28/20091   0   6                Payout
                              09/05/20081   0   6                Payout
                              02/18/20101   6   2                Payout
                              11/11/20091   6   2                Payout
                              02/24/20091   6   2                Payout
                              01/13/20091   6   2                Payout
                              01/02/20091   6   2                Payout
                              02/20/20081   6   2                Payout
                              07/31/20041   4   6                Payout
                              06/29/20041   4   6                Payout
                              02/06/20041   4   6                Payout
                              11/01/20031   4   6                Payout
                              09/13/20031   4   6                Payout

                               

                              11/18/20095   5   1                Payout
                              09/23/20095   5   1                Payout
                              06/25/20095   5   1                Payout
                              03/19/20095   5   1                Payout
                              02/13/20095   5   1                Payout

                              Virginia ball drawings from 1994 (before day drawings were conducted): 

                              Sat. 04/23/1994 - 137

                              Mon. 05/23/1994 - 137

                              Tue. 05/24/1994 - 137

                              Tue. 08/02/1994 - 137

                              Mon. 11/28/1994 - 137 

                               

                              Also: 

                              Mon. 11/03/2003 night - 618

                              Tue. 11/11/2003 night - 618

                              Wed. 11/19/2003 day - 618

                              Tue. 11/25/2003 day - 618

                              Same number won straight four times in one month in a state with ball drawings. Lots of lucky Virginians born on June 18th.

                              Today's winning 3-ball is going to be a number between 000 and 999.

                              In a lot of states, lotteries benefit education. That makes the REAL winners the only people who can't play!