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POLL - On The Whole Do The Lotteries Provide Truly Random Numbers?

Topic closed. 104 replies. Last post 6 years ago by Hermanus104.

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From Quick Picks to Winning Numbers, Are We Getting Truly Random Numbers from the Various Lotteries?

Yes [ 29 ]  [29.59%]
No [ 52 ]  [53.06%]
Don't know/Don't care/Doesn't matter to me [ 11 ]  [11.22%]
Other [ 6 ]  [6.12%]
Total Valid Votes [ 98 ]  
Discarded Votes [ 1 ]  
RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
mid-Ohio
United States
Member #9
March 24, 2001
19894 Posts
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Posted: August 8, 2010, 3:26 pm - IP Logged

"Random" simply means that by studying past results you can not with certainty predict the next event.  I think the lottery meets that requirement

 

I totally agree.  There is no way to predict the next event with any degree of certainty. 

How about we try to predict one event out of 10?  Or 20?  or even 30?  Will that work?  Can we find an algorithym that will, with certainty, predict one out of 30?  If you have truely deep pockets you can go as high as one out of 100.

I firmly believe such a scenario is possible.

How about we try to predict one event out of 10?  Or 20?  or even 30?  Will that work?  Can we find an algorithym that will, with certainty, predict one out of 30?  If you have truely deep pockets you can go as high as one out of 100.

I firmly believe such a scenario is possible.


You aren't the only one to believe such a scenario is possible, the odds of producing a line that pays when playing the MM or PB are 1:40 and 1:35.  Since there are 4,405,086 to 5,560,464 combinations that will win something every drawings, I think getting one of them every 15-25 lines played is a realistic goal that would also increase your chances of winning one of the top prizes.

 * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
   
             Evil Looking       

    RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
    mid-Ohio
    United States
    Member #9
    March 24, 2001
    19894 Posts
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    Posted: August 8, 2010, 3:59 pm - IP Logged

    I believe the winning numbers for the Texas pick 5 game are generated randomly with ball machines within the confines of the 5 of 37 matrix, or box.

    There are 435,897 possible 5-digit combinations, beginning with 1.2.3.4.5 and ending 33.34.35.36.37.

    Cash 5 is a daily game. There have been hundreds of drawings since 1995.

    Yet, anytime I've run a check to see if a combination I want to play has come up in a prior drawing, the answer is 'no.'

    I'm sure that have been some repeats, but I don't have the means to find out, nor the interest, for that matter.

    I sometime wonder if the combinations I play have come up in a pre-test drawing, but, again, I don't have the means or interest to find out.

    I think it would be foolish to identify and not play certain combinations simply because they have already come up. I recall reading posts where
    certain players have regretted not playing repeat combinations.

    However, if I did encounter numerous repeats, I might begin to wonder if the lottery folks are doing their jobs.

    The main reason for the pre-tests is to ensure randomness for individual drawings.

    I'm not sure how the lottery folks measure and determine the degree of randomness for the game as a whole, but I'm confident they do.

    I have file of all the drawings for Ohio Buckeye5 (5/37) which was replaced by Rolling Cash5 (5/39).  Both games used ping pong balls and air in their drawings  In Buckeye5 2723 drawings there were 5 combinations that repeated, I am sure if you could compare all of Texas Cash5 drawings with each other you would find the same thing has happened.

     * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
       
                 Evil Looking       


      United States
      Member #93947
      July 10, 2010
      2180 Posts
      Offline
      Posted: August 8, 2010, 7:42 pm - IP Logged

      I have file of all the drawings for Ohio Buckeye5 (5/37) which was replaced by Rolling Cash5 (5/39).  Both games used ping pong balls and air in their drawings  In Buckeye5 2723 drawings there were 5 combinations that repeated, I am sure if you could compare all of Texas Cash5 drawings with each other you would find the same thing has happened.

      RJOh,

      If you divide 435,897 by 365, you'll know the minimum # of years it will take for Texas to draw all the combinations!  Given that you've found repeats already, which was/is possible, but only expected rarely, it will even take longer than that!  It really isn't surprising that you can get weary looking for previous winners by randomly typing in sets, is it?  Smile 

      Mankind might be forced to move to another planet before all the combinations of a (6,49) Lotto are drawn!

      On 2nd thought, we might not make it through the (5,37) set!  Confused

      I will be presenting some results of testing several simple betting strategies For a 3 digit lottery in the Fooled By Randomness Thread of the Lottery Systems Forum.  Hopefully, I'll post 2 of them tonight.

      --Jimmy

      p.s.  Stack47(I Think!):  I'll get to your post about posting URLs later.


        United States
        Member #93947
        July 10, 2010
        2180 Posts
        Offline
        Posted: August 8, 2010, 7:54 pm - IP Logged

        How about we try to predict one event out of 10?  Or 20?  or even 30?  Will that work?  Can we find an algorithym that will, with certainty, predict one out of 30?  If you have truely deep pockets you can go as high as one out of 100.

        I firmly believe such a scenario is possible.


        You aren't the only one to believe such a scenario is possible, the odds of producing a line that pays when playing the MM or PB are 1:40 and 1:35.  Since there are 4,405,086 to 5,560,464 combinations that will win something every drawings, I think getting one of them every 15-25 lines played is a realistic goal that would also increase your chances of winning one of the top prizes.

        RJOh,

        Are you saying, then, that employing betting strategies that increase the number of hits for the smaller prizes will CONSEQUENTLY increase your chances of Hitting the Jackpot?

        If so, how?

        --Jimmy

          Hermanus104's avatar - 5027340606 1e360c8038_s.jpg
          Northern Virginia
          United States
          Member #83350
          December 5, 2009
          1322 Posts
          Offline
          Posted: August 8, 2010, 9:52 pm - IP Logged

          Missouri Lottery gives inside view of computerized drawings.  10:54 am - The Missouri Lottery takes viewers on a tour of their computerized drawing facilities and procedures.

           

          Hello:  I don't believe it's random, check this out.

          Feb. 14th, 2010  485

          Feb. 19th, 2010 584

          Feb.20th, 2010 548

          All within 7 days,  14 draws.

          Feb. 22, 2010 555

          Is that random or programmed?

          You can watch that video again.

          lmaoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

          Good Luck.

          I'm not trying to come to the defense of computerized drawings, but things like that do happen on occasion. If you do 10,000 drawings or so from a lotto machine, it's likely something strange is going to happen at some point. Here are some interesting things I've noticed from states that do ball drawings:

          Virginia: 03-13-10 day: 930 / 03-14-10 day: 939 / 03-15-10 day: 934. 

          Texas: 07-15-10 day: 104 / 07-17-10 day: 105 / 07-19-10 nite: 103.

          And perhaps the most amazing of all: Kentucky - 09-24-07 day: 484. / 09-25-07 day: 484. / 09-26-07 nite: 484.

          Today's winning 3-ball is going to be a number between 000 and 999.

          In a lot of states, lotteries benefit education. That makes the REAL winners the only people who can't play!

            Hermanus104's avatar - 5027340606 1e360c8038_s.jpg
            Northern Virginia
            United States
            Member #83350
            December 5, 2009
            1322 Posts
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            Posted: August 8, 2010, 9:53 pm - IP Logged

            RJOh,

            If you divide 435,897 by 365, you'll know the minimum # of years it will take for Texas to draw all the combinations!  Given that you've found repeats already, which was/is possible, but only expected rarely, it will even take longer than that!  It really isn't surprising that you can get weary looking for previous winners by randomly typing in sets, is it?  Smile 

            Mankind might be forced to move to another planet before all the combinations of a (6,49) Lotto are drawn!

            On 2nd thought, we might not make it through the (5,37) set!  Confused

            I will be presenting some results of testing several simple betting strategies For a 3 digit lottery in the Fooled By Randomness Thread of the Lottery Systems Forum.  Hopefully, I'll post 2 of them tonight.

            --Jimmy

            p.s.  Stack47(I Think!):  I'll get to your post about posting URLs later.

            I think you are forgetting to take into account that Texas does not do Sunday drawings.

            Today's winning 3-ball is going to be a number between 000 and 999.

            In a lot of states, lotteries benefit education. That makes the REAL winners the only people who can't play!

              rdgrnr's avatar - walt
              Way back up in them dadgum hills, son!
              United States
              Member #73904
              April 28, 2009
              14903 Posts
              Offline
              Posted: August 8, 2010, 10:19 pm - IP Logged

              I'm not trying to come to the defense of computerized drawings, but things like that do happen on occasion. If you do 10,000 drawings or so from a lotto machine, it's likely something strange is going to happen at some point. Here are some interesting things I've noticed from states that do ball drawings:

              Virginia: 03-13-10 day: 930 / 03-14-10 day: 939 / 03-15-10 day: 934. 

              Texas: 07-15-10 day: 104 / 07-17-10 day: 105 / 07-19-10 nite: 103.

              And perhaps the most amazing of all: Kentucky - 09-24-07 day: 484. / 09-25-07 day: 484. / 09-26-07 nite: 484.

              They jest ain't no accountin fer Kintucky, Hermanus.

              Did you ever hear that song "There Is No Arizona" by Jamie O'Neal?

              Well, I'm writin a new one called "There Shouldn't Oughta Be No Kintucky"


                                                           
                                   
                                                       

               

               

               

               

                                                                                                                 

              "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

                                                                                                          --Edmund Burke

               

               


                United States
                Member #93947
                July 10, 2010
                2180 Posts
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                Posted: August 9, 2010, 3:32 am - IP Logged

                I think you are forgetting to take into account that Texas does not do Sunday drawings.

                ...which helps to make my point with even bigger numbers.

                You can multiply all the thousands of years by a factor of 7/6!

                Smile


                  United States
                  Member #93947
                  July 10, 2010
                  2180 Posts
                  Offline
                  Posted: August 9, 2010, 10:06 am - IP Logged

                  Missouri Lottery gives inside view of computerized drawings.  10:54 am - The Missouri Lottery takes viewers on a tour of their computerized drawing facilities and procedures.

                   

                  Hello:  I don't believe it's random, check this out.

                  Feb. 14th, 2010  485

                  Feb. 19th, 2010 584

                  Feb.20th, 2010 548

                  All within 7 days,  14 draws.

                  Feb. 22, 2010 555

                  Is that random or programmed?

                  You can watch that video again.

                  lmaoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

                  Good Luck.

                  MzDuffleBagLady,

                  The video showed that they have all the trappings of security and assured RANDOMNESS.  However, as a programmer, I was disappointed that they did not address in any way the issue of just what sort of RNGs (codewise) they're using, and more importantly, they didn't even give a hint as to how they "seed" the process.  Having multiple computers and choosing one randomly at each session doesn't tell me anything.  All of their computers could be seeded identically!  It may very well be that their numbers are not repeatable sequences, which can be accomplished by "Randomizing" a Pseudo Random generator after each call by "kicking" it ahead a number of slots based on, for example, low order changes in the ambient temperature, or the computer system's clock.  If they're doing something like this, then they could very well be generating TRULY RANDOM sequences.  BUT IF THEY ARE, THEY FAILED TO TELL US IN THEIR VIDEO!!  For Missourians' sake, let's hope they are.

                  Perhaps someone close to the MO system could call and ask them about this.

                  As far as those February drawings you posted above go, they prove nothing either way.  In fact, they give me an idea for another pattern to run against my 33+ year results at my Thread Fooled By Randomness in Lottery Systems.  Hypothesis: Betting Straight each day on a specific BOX of the previous day's winning number will hit as often as buying QPs.  (About 12 times every 33 years.)

                  Please check out the Thread here:

                  http://www.lotterypost.com/thread/218174/1736396

                   

                  --Jimmy

                    RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
                    mid-Ohio
                    United States
                    Member #9
                    March 24, 2001
                    19894 Posts
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                    Posted: August 9, 2010, 10:33 am - IP Logged

                    jimmy4164

                    It really isn't surprising that you can get weary looking for previous winners by randomly typing in sets, is it? 

                    I don't do it that way.  My program can search any file for a match with lines from another file or itself.  It will do it continuously until every line have been checked and show all the matches at the end of the routine or stop when ever a match of the size I'm searching for is found. 

                    Are you saying, then, that employing betting strategies that increase the number of hits for the smaller prizes will CONSEQUENTLY increase your chances of Hitting the Jackpot?

                    Yes, I'm saying if you increase your overall chances of a match that pays then your chances of a match at all level are increased also.  What may seem like a small improvement is really an improvement overall.

                     * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
                       
                                 Evil Looking       


                      United States
                      Member #93947
                      July 10, 2010
                      2180 Posts
                      Offline
                      Posted: August 9, 2010, 10:59 am - IP Logged

                      jimmy4164

                      It really isn't surprising that you can get weary looking for previous winners by randomly typing in sets, is it? 

                      I don't do it that way.  My program can search any file for a match with lines from another file or itself.  It will do it continuously until every line have been checked and show all the matches at the end of the routine or stop when ever a match of the size I'm searching for is found. 

                      Are you saying, then, that employing betting strategies that increase the number of hits for the smaller prizes will CONSEQUENTLY increase your chances of Hitting the Jackpot?

                      Yes, I'm saying if you increase your overall chances of a match that pays then your chances of a match at all level are increased also.  What may seem like a small improvement is really an improvement overall.

                      RJOh,

                      If you follow the Thread at

                      http://www.lotterypost.com/thread/218174/1736396

                      through to its completion, you may reconsider your last paragraph above.

                      --Jimmy

                        Avatar
                        Buford. GA
                        United States
                        Member #4
                        April 19, 2001
                        853 Posts
                        Offline
                        Posted: August 9, 2010, 11:09 am - IP Logged

                                    About 7 yrs ago when I was really into the Lottery, I recorded all

                                    cash 3 drawings for about 3 yrs in Georgia...I actually hit a     certain set

                                    3 times in a 7 day period...I wish I could remember that set now....

                                    but that was a heart attack, a severe bout with pneumonia,

                                    a partial amputation of my right foot, and discovering I was a

                                    MUCH better sports bettor than a Lottery player.......ago.Wink

                         "as long as you win more than you lose...gamblins' not a problem"

                          bobby623's avatar - abstract
                          San Angelo, Texas
                          United States
                          Member #1097
                          January 31, 2003
                          1405 Posts
                          Offline
                          Posted: August 9, 2010, 1:04 pm - IP Logged

                          The Texas lottery website has a feature where any Pick 5 combination ready for play can be compared to all prior drawings where
                          the winning combination has 2 or more hits.

                          I don't know exactly what this has to do with the the topic at hand - random drawings.

                          It just demonstrates that players don't have to use up computer space by downloading entire drawings results.

                          Of course, folks who are looking for specific whole or partial sequences may need the files for whatever special

                          analysis they are conducting.

                          Further, I don't know how knowing 'odds' of this or that happening can be used to determine whether the drawings
                          are random, or not.

                            lotterybraker's avatar - pyramid
                            mississippi
                            United States
                            Member #34478
                            March 3, 2006
                            5906 Posts
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                            Posted: August 9, 2010, 1:10 pm - IP Logged

                            well..for all of you people that think the lottery isnt RANDOM..let me tell you what you do..gather up all your friends and family and take all your systems and sit down at the time of the drawing and try to hit the pic 3..

                            IF you get the exact order STRAIGHT you got lucky and I will bet you , you cant do it again..

                            IF, I had to wager a bet..I would bet that you and your family, and all your friends will miss because you have no idea what is coming out at a specific time ie, the next draw..

                            all lotteries are random..INCLUDING THE RNG ones as well..if your lottery is running ...

                            0-9

                            00-99

                            these 2 sequences right here will tell you if your lottery is running correctly..those 2 sequences will make up all 1000 combinations in the pic 3..lets not make this any harder than it is..I am not sure why so many people get angry when they lose..I think they are under some assumption that each combination IS SUPPOSE TO COME OUT one after another so they can win..

                            NOPE..that is not going to happen..and the fact that your state lottery has 567 come out 3 or 4 times in one month in a different order or a repeating order doesnt mean the lottery is fixed..

                            look at this for WISCONSIN PIC 3

                            Thu, Jul 22, 2010 0-4-0 Wed, Jul 21, 2010 9-9-1 Tue, Jul 20, 2010 7-3-9 Mon, Jul 19, 2010 9-1-5 Sun, Jul 18, 2010 8-1-3 Sat, Jul 17, 2010 3-8-6 Fri, Jul 16, 2010 3-9-7 Thu, Jul 15, 2010 1-1-0 Wed, Jul 14, 2010 9-0-0 Tue, Jul 13, 2010 7-2-8 Mon, Jul 12, 2010 0-9-3

                            you see July 12, 0-9-3..going through 0-9 the single digit 4 is missing and doesnt show until July 22 0-4-0

                            0 repeats in the run

                            1 repeats in the run

                            3 repeats

                            7,8, and 9 repeats..so we have a start at 039..a middle with those repeating digits and an end..the single digit 4..pairs and entire combos work the same way..January 1 1998  (ACCORDING TO LP'S DATA BASE) Wisconsins first pic 3 drawing was 408..that started the pic 3 run..now I have no idea what 3 digit combo hasnt showed straight yet..that is 12 years worth of draws..if I had to venture a guess, I would say there is probably 1-20 combinations straight that hasnt showed yet to complete 000-999

                            NOW..the main point I am trying to make is this..you are going to get REPEATING COMBOS in the pic 3..its part of the order..there is nothing sneaky or crooked when that happens..it happens because it has to happen..same goes for pic 4 and pic 5..it will happen and has already happened numerous times..

                            I dont care who you are..or how smart you think you are..YOU CAN NOT GO DRAW TO DRAW..that is not possible..there are to many variables running each and every day and you CAN NOT ACCOUNT FOR ALL OF THEM..and if you were able to account for them...then you will have to account for the order of arrangement of them..ie..which varibale will show next..

                             

                            ....psssshhhhh..let me tell you a secret..the simple fact that you do all that NUMERICAL WORK AND STILL LOSE should tell you that RANDOM is working just fine!!!!!

                            let me share another secret with you..IF YOU WANT TO WIN more..you better MAKE YOUR state hand over all them PRETEST draws they take out and you add them into your pic 3 data in there right order by DATE...

                            if you are betting on 213 STRAIGHT because the paying data says it hasnt showed yet..what happens..you keep betting on it straight and if it has showed in the pretest draws..well..there it is..that is the onetime it was suppose to show to complete 000-999 ..but if you dont have that pretest data..what happens..YOU KEEP BETTING ON IT..and one more thing..Mathematicians will tell you that ANY NUMBER can come out at any time..well that is only 50% TRUE..!!!!!

                            "Attention all Mathematicians: Check your degree at the door because when it comes to whole numbers you are the Amateur"

                              RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
                              mid-Ohio
                              United States
                              Member #9
                              March 24, 2001
                              19894 Posts
                              Offline
                              Posted: August 9, 2010, 1:32 pm - IP Logged

                              The Texas lottery website has a feature where any Pick 5 combination ready for play can be compared to all prior drawings where
                              the winning combination has 2 or more hits.

                              I don't know exactly what this has to do with the the topic at hand - random drawings.

                              It just demonstrates that players don't have to use up computer space by downloading entire drawings results.

                              Of course, folks who are looking for specific whole or partial sequences may need the files for whatever special

                              analysis they are conducting.

                              Further, I don't know how knowing 'odds' of this or that happening can be used to determine whether the drawings
                              are random, or not.

                              A 960906170511294750 
                              A 960913010304093047 
                              A 960920060524313448 
                              A 960927080825353748 
                              A 961004010816183638 
                              A 961011220223374050 
                              A 961018180918242646 
                              A 961025092328303543 
                              A 961101170210283949 
                              A 961108171123253546 

                              Using the above format to save a sequential file with all 1379 dates and numbers for the MegaMillions and BigGames since 09/06/1996 uses only 33K of space on the hard drive.  Data files don't take up a lot of room.

                               * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
                                 
                                           Evil Looking