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POLL - On The Whole Do The Lotteries Provide Truly Random Numbers?

Topic closed. 104 replies. Last post 6 years ago by Hermanus104.

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From Quick Picks to Winning Numbers, Are We Getting Truly Random Numbers from the Various Lotteries?

Yes [ 29 ]  [29.59%]
No [ 52 ]  [53.06%]
Don't know/Don't care/Doesn't matter to me [ 11 ]  [11.22%]
Other [ 6 ]  [6.12%]
Total Valid Votes [ 98 ]  
Discarded Votes [ 1 ]  
rdgrnr's avatar - walt
Way back up in them dadgum hills, son!
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Posted: August 7, 2010, 10:39 pm - IP Logged

Seems to be a lot of controversy about this question.

Let's see what the majority says.

Please explain.


                                             
                     
                                         

 

 

 

 

                                                                                                   

"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

                                                                                            --Edmund Burke

 

 

    jimjwright's avatar - Yellow 3.png
    Park City, UT
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    Posted: August 7, 2010, 10:59 pm - IP Logged

    To answer the poll you have to define "Truly random numbers".

    Jimmy

      rdgrnr's avatar - walt
      Way back up in them dadgum hills, son!
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      Posted: August 7, 2010, 11:07 pm - IP Logged

      To answer the poll you have to define "Truly random numbers".

      Jimmy

      Numbers drawn randomly as opposed to surreptitiously arbitrary in some manner or just subject to some unintentional error or flaw in process or design.


                                                   
                           
                                               

       

       

       

       

                                                                                                         

      "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

                                                                                                  --Edmund Burke

       

       


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        Posted: August 7, 2010, 11:09 pm - IP Logged

        After 22 years studying chaos, it's apparent to me that there is no "one" definition for chaos and randomness. It has it's ebbs and flows. It has unlikely outcomes. It has harmony from time to time. It has too many variables.

        Not that it CAN'T be predicted, but it will win in the long run if the person observing doesn't pick up on the nuances along the way. It's ever morphing, like the tides. The same combination of gasses in a given environment will never be the same. No two finger prints will ever match.

        There is hope. Despite the gloom and doom, one can, and has, enable themselves with tools that can overcome chaos. After 22 years, yesterday i found the best version of the tools needed in the p-3. It was worth every penny of the 50 bucks I spent on getting that info, and I'm excited. It's been a while since I've been so excited about a p-3 system.

        No matter what the officials do to throw the flow of numbers into a wild and seemingly unpredictable frame of reasoning, one thing will always overcome it. That is knowledge. Steve Player proved that right a while back, and so did the latest contender. The system which I endowed myself with yesterday.

        Even manipulated machines have limits. Know how to exploit them, and chaos is irrelevant.

        There will always be bias in all areas of life. Just have to spot the biases.

         

          MzDuffleBaglady's avatar - Lottery-018.jpg

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          Posted: August 7, 2010, 11:26 pm - IP Logged

          Seems to be a lot of controversy about this question.

          Let's see what the majority says.

          Please explain.

          Missouri Lottery gives inside view of computerized drawings.  10:54 am - The Missouri Lottery takes viewers on a tour of their computerized drawing facilities and procedures.

           

          Hello:  I don't believe it's random, check this out.

          Feb. 14th, 2010  485

          Feb. 19th, 2010 584

          Feb.20th, 2010 548

          All within 7 days,  14 draws.

          Feb. 22, 2010 555

          Is that random or programmed?

          You can watch that video again.

          lmaoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

          Good Luck.

          The Struggle is real!

            rdgrnr's avatar - walt
            Way back up in them dadgum hills, son!
            United States
            Member #73904
            April 28, 2009
            14903 Posts
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            Posted: August 7, 2010, 11:27 pm - IP Logged

            After 22 years studying chaos, it's apparent to me that there is no "one" definition for chaos and randomness. It has it's ebbs and flows. It has unlikely outcomes. It has harmony from time to time. It has too many variables.

            Not that it CAN'T be predicted, but it will win in the long run if the person observing doesn't pick up on the nuances along the way. It's ever morphing, like the tides. The same combination of gasses in a given environment will never be the same. No two finger prints will ever match.

            There is hope. Despite the gloom and doom, one can, and has, enable themselves with tools that can overcome chaos. After 22 years, yesterday i found the best version of the tools needed in the p-3. It was worth every penny of the 50 bucks I spent on getting that info, and I'm excited. It's been a while since I've been so excited about a p-3 system.

            No matter what the officials do to throw the flow of numbers into a wild and seemingly unpredictable frame of reasoning, one thing will always overcome it. That is knowledge. Steve Player proved that right a while back, and so did the latest contender. The system which I endowed myself with yesterday.

            Even manipulated machines have limits. Know how to exploit them, and chaos is irrelevant.

            There will always be bias in all areas of life. Just have to spot the biases.

             

            That sounds reasonable to me but don't let that make you feel good because I'm pretty dumb.


                                                         
                                 
                                                     

             

             

             

             

                                                                                                               

            "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

                                                                                                        --Edmund Burke

             

             

              rdgrnr's avatar - walt
              Way back up in them dadgum hills, son!
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              Posted: August 7, 2010, 11:34 pm - IP Logged

              Missouri Lottery gives inside view of computerized drawings.  10:54 am - The Missouri Lottery takes viewers on a tour of their computerized drawing facilities and procedures.

               

              Hello:  I don't believe it's random, check this out.

              Feb. 14th, 2010  485

              Feb. 19th, 2010 584

              Feb.20th, 2010 548

              All within 7 days,  14 draws.

              Feb. 22, 2010 555

              Is that random or programmed?

              You can watch that video again.

              lmaoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

              Good Luck.

              Some day they're gonna pipe in Hi-Speed Internet to us hillbillies way back in the woods so we can watch them videos too.


                                                           
                                   
                                                       

               

               

               

               

                                                                                                                 

              "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

                                                                                                          --Edmund Burke

               

               

                JAP69's avatar - alas
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                Posted: August 7, 2010, 11:38 pm - IP Logged

                I would say they are random.

                How many times has cash 5 and jackpot games duplicated all the same winning numbers? In pick 3 and 4 you will have the same numbers come back as you will have a higher probability of random reapeating.

                Thats the way the ball bounces or where an r n g random cycle stops at that split second.

                MAGA

                  Jack-C's avatar - us
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                  Posted: August 7, 2010, 11:44 pm - IP Logged

                  In my many years of experience working in the cryptographic community, I have found a few things to be true.

                  "Random" simply means that by studying past results you can not with certainty predict the next event.  I think the lottery meets that requirement.

                  In cryptography we understood that some things can be "sufficiently random".  That means that random numbers used for "secret communications" only need to be random enough to make a code that fools the people that may see (read) it.  I can use "random" numbers to make up a code that will fool the general public, but would not "make muster" against a country that had Super Computers to analyze it.  

                    JAP69's avatar - alas
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                    Posted: August 7, 2010, 11:58 pm - IP Logged

                    Another thing to be considered on randomness is that cash 5 and jackpot games the balls are circulated in the same chamber and drawn from that one chamber. Cash 3 and 4 the balls are circulated in individual chambers for positional drawing. So with cash 3 and 4 their is a 1 in 10 chance of the same ball number being drawn per positional chamber and they also rotate ball chambers and ball sets for cash 3 and 4 from drawing to drawing.

                    MAGA

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                      DFW, Texas
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                      Posted: August 8, 2010, 2:04 am - IP Logged

                      Quantum mechanics suggests that nothing that can be influenced by humans can ever truly be random, and that the only random events are at the quantum level.  Beyond that, I also question what exactly constitutes randomness.

                      I think a more direct question is whether you think lotteries cheat.  Some people seem to be suspicious about that, but I tend to believe that the states have no reason to cheat.  The games are built in favor of the lottery.  That doesn't depend on chance, it's a structural component of the games.

                      I guess my answers would be that I don't know what true randomness is, and I doubt mankind's ability to make anything random.  People aren't capable of doing anything with perfection, and true randomness would be a form of perfection.  But I don't see much incentive to cheat because the state is guaranteed to be the winner in each game, given enough time.

                        rdgrnr's avatar - walt
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                        Posted: August 8, 2010, 5:19 am - IP Logged

                        There's some great answers and opinions coming out. This is getting interesting.

                        Jap69 had me convinced they're random then Jack-C brought up "sufficiently random", then Longarm introduced Quantum Mechanics which says they can't be random if we manipulate them. All the theories make sense to me which makes me wonder if I'm just wishy washy about the whole dadgum shootin match.


                                                                     
                                             
                                                                 

                         

                         

                         

                         

                                                                                                                           

                        "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

                                                                                                                    --Edmund Burke

                         

                         

                          rdgrnr's avatar - walt
                          Way back up in them dadgum hills, son!
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                          Posted: August 8, 2010, 5:29 am - IP Logged

                          Quantum mechanics suggests that nothing that can be influenced by humans can ever truly be random, and that the only random events are at the quantum level.  Beyond that, I also question what exactly constitutes randomness.

                          I think a more direct question is whether you think lotteries cheat.  Some people seem to be suspicious about that, but I tend to believe that the states have no reason to cheat.  The games are built in favor of the lottery.  That doesn't depend on chance, it's a structural component of the games.

                          I guess my answers would be that I don't know what true randomness is, and I doubt mankind's ability to make anything random.  People aren't capable of doing anything with perfection, and true randomness would be a form of perfection.  But I don't see much incentive to cheat because the state is guaranteed to be the winner in each game, given enough time.

                          I agree with your contention about the states not having much incentive to cheat because they're already guaranteed to be the winner over time and I don't want to make this thread about cheating.

                          But we also can't leave out the fact that Tennessee was caught with a switch on their computers which would rule out the possibility of doubles being drawn.


                                                                       
                                               
                                                                   

                           

                           

                           

                           

                                                                                                                             

                          "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

                                                                                                                      --Edmund Burke

                           

                           

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                            DFW, Texas
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                            Posted: August 8, 2010, 5:36 am - IP Logged

                            There's some great answers and opinions coming out. This is getting interesting.

                            Jap69 had me convinced they're random then Jack-C brought up "sufficiently random", then Longarm introduced Quantum Mechanics which says they can't be random if we manipulate them. All the theories make sense to me which makes me wonder if I'm just wishy washy about the whole dadgum shootin match.

                            Reading over what was written, "sufficient randomness" and perfection are ideas that, to me, get toward an answer to your question.

                            A perfect lottery would be random.  We don't have perfect cars, or perfect computers, or perfect lotteries.  I would view true randomness as a form of perfection, which is unattainable.

                            In spite of the lack of perfection, I still like ball machines.  Even if we assume that they're not more random, they can't as easily be misprogrammed, and malfunctions are more likely to be visible.

                              rcbbuckeye's avatar - Lottery-043.jpg
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                              Posted: August 8, 2010, 9:23 am - IP Logged

                              Some day they're gonna pipe in Hi-Speed Internet to us hillbillies way back in the woods so we can watch them videos too.

                              Well, rdgrnr, they have to figure out how to pipe in sunshine first. LOL.

                              CAN'T WIN IF YOU'RE NOT IN

                              A DOLLAR AND A DREAM (OR $2)