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roulette

Topic closed. 36 replies. Last post 6 years ago by jimmy4164.

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BigBuxHustla's avatar - disney01
Dallas
United States
Member #99364
October 23, 2010
31 Posts
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Posted: November 6, 2010, 3:06 am - IP Logged

dont rly see a topic here about playing roulette so ill just start one.

i see that many of us have some good luck and good results from playing pick 3, and with payouts as miserable as about 1:333 to some nice ones such as 1:900. However with games such as roulette hitting a straight number pays 1:36 odds being 1:37(EU) and 1:38(US)

Expanding this to compare to lottery payouts:

str8 hit in roulette

1:38 x 27 = 1:1026

1:36 x 27 = 972

assuming you win 27 straights, you will win around 970

str8 hit in online lottery

1:1000 x1 = 1000

1:900 x 1 = 900

assuming 1 straight hit in pick 3 will equal to just about 27 straight hits in roulette, you win 900

from looking at this, it looks like spending money on roulette will pay you more for what the odds are than the pick3 lottery. but would this persuade anyone to pick roulette over lottery then?

does this mean that you can apply the same systems you use for the pick2/3/4 lotteries with roulette and have more income? if so what could specially work for this game since it only has 36 numbers along with zero and doublezero?

or would the previous two questions i ask be false since roulette can be more "random" with their numbers than the state lotteries?

Ive seen a website mention that roulette actually "takes no skill", is this true? i call it bs.

    eddessaknight's avatar - nw paladin.jpg
    LAS VEGAS
    United States
    Member #47729
    November 22, 2006
    4507 Posts
    Offline
    Posted: November 7, 2010, 3:15 pm - IP Logged

    Greetings BBH,

    You have posed an interesting circumstance worth exploriing & being conversant with the game of roulette I humbly hope I can make a candid contribution to this otherwise lonely thread LOL

    If the true odds and payoffs are as you suggested, the house edge for the lottery is stupendous ranging from about 10% to 67%.  Not even the worse slot machines have a house edge more than about 40%, so an argument could even be made that you are probably better off playing the slots than playing the lottery.  If you don't know ANYTHING about roulette and just throw your money out on the table, you are still better off playing that game than the lottery because its house edge is only 5.26%.  The only advantage to playing the lottery is that you aren't likely to spend as much and take quite a bit as much action so you won't lose your money as fast, but some die hard lottery players might. :-)  Anyhow, both games are a expected losing proposition if you don't know what you are doing.  However, you can learn to beat roulette by exploiting the tendencies of random numbers.  You might  use these principles to beat a lotto game but it sounds like even the best lotto odds would still eventually eat up your bankroll.  For instance, I have, on occasion, used my knowledge of random number tendencies to help some friends or relatives play slot machines.  The results were that we usually had more money in the machine when we got a hit than when we missed.  And, if you could get them to quit playing when they were ahead, they could usually quit with a profit    (but since they were just playing for fun and only made rare trips to the casino, it was virtually impossible to get them to quit playing when they were up a few bucks).  But, since they usually do keep playing, even with my ability to track the machines on paper and help them have more money in play on winning spins, eventually they will exhaust their bankroll because the machines pay so poorly even when they do hit due to very high house edge.  This is the same problem you would run into with the lottery.  If a player would just quit playing when he was ahead, he might be able to beat the game, but with such a tremendously high house edge, it would probably eventually exhaust your bankroll.  If you attack lotto, you would need a lot of past performance occurance results in order to get the lay of the land.

    One other thing, other then crooked lottery store clerks, the lottery game is overall probably more honest in that you don't have dealers trying to manipulate spins or applying other tricks of he trade to beat you.

    Naturally everybody wants to win the elusive dream jackpot and the basic risk to reward ratio has most players ignoring the lottery vs roulette or any table game comparison in favor of that life changing bit hit!

    Did not intend to discourage players on the gaming board but to honestly respond with practical & not just theoritical human behavoir on gambling.

     

    In any case be willng to be lucky or better then....

    EddessaKnight Sun Smiley

      eddessaknight's avatar - nw paladin.jpg
      LAS VEGAS
      United States
      Member #47729
      November 22, 2006
      4507 Posts
      Offline
      Posted: November 25, 2010, 3:39 pm - IP Logged

      Seriously consider this, if roulette was so unbeatable why do casinos use COUNTERMEASURES ????

      Think about it!!!

      EddessaKnight Sun Smiley

        Coin Toss's avatar - shape barbed.jpg
        Zeta Reticuli Star System
        United States
        Member #30470
        January 17, 2006
        10354 Posts
        Offline
        Posted: December 5, 2010, 6:12 pm - IP Logged

        Seriously consider this, if roulette was so unbeatable why do casinos use COUNTERMEASURES ????

        Think about it!!!

        EddessaKnight Sun Smiley

        Just saw this..... the game itself attracts a lot of systems players, and a lot of cheats.

        As for system players, the game offers a lot of choices, black or red, odd or even, rows, columns, dozens, etc. But except for one or two bets on the layout every other  bet you can make has a house advantage of 5.26%

        The dealer has a heck of a lot to look for and there is usually one floorperson for two games. In the casino I broke in at there were players who were allowed to play antything but roulette. They knew it was a break-in house and would look for inexperienced dealers. 

        The cheats can be anything from a lone player trying to past post to a team trying to divet the dealer's attention and make their move.

        Every year the Nevada Gaming Commission does a report on what they've seen in the line of attempted cheating. One year there was a guy that slipped his own ball into a roulette game, which was radio controlled! He played panels and had a transmitter that told the ball when to fall. He got caught because the electronics in the ball overheated and the ball exploded, I'm not making this up.

        Another countermeasure is making sure the wheel is balanced and shows no bias.

        Those who run the lotteries love it when players look for consistency in something that's designed not to have any.

        Lep

        There is one and only one 'proven' system, and that is to book the action. No matter the game, let the players pick their own losers.

          eddessaknight's avatar - nw paladin.jpg
          LAS VEGAS
          United States
          Member #47729
          November 22, 2006
          4507 Posts
          Offline
          Posted: December 6, 2010, 5:17 pm - IP Logged

          Just saw this..... the game itself attracts a lot of systems players, and a lot of cheats.

          As for system players, the game offers a lot of choices, black or red, odd or even, rows, columns, dozens, etc. But except for one or two bets on the layout every other  bet you can make has a house advantage of 5.26%

          The dealer has a heck of a lot to look for and there is usually one floorperson for two games. In the casino I broke in at there were players who were allowed to play antything but roulette. They knew it was a break-in house and would look for inexperienced dealers. 

          The cheats can be anything from a lone player trying to past post to a team trying to divet the dealer's attention and make their move.

          Every year the Nevada Gaming Commission does a report on what they've seen in the line of attempted cheating. One year there was a guy that slipped his own ball into a roulette game, which was radio controlled! He played panels and had a transmitter that told the ball when to fall. He got caught because the electronics in the ball overheated and the ball exploded, I'm not making this up.

          Another countermeasure is making sure the wheel is balanced and shows no bias.

          Hello Coin always good to hear your informed casino perspective.

          I advocate for the benefit of gamblers & especially advantage players. While there is a list of notorios player cheats world wide, it is ony exceeded by casino personell & casino swendelling. Naturally properties must take ant-crimnal action againt theivery from all cources & have high technoloy eye in the sky & a private army as enforecemnt.

          Having said that my concern is with the overwhelming majority of innocent gamblers (suckers)who come to play believing they are getting a fair shake. The casino mentality doesn't really destinguish a legitmate winning player and a cheat. All people who are winning above the expected negative odds become suspect with the same brush. I just completed my 18 Global Gaming Conferece & Expo and seminars were given to identify and stop advantage players w/varing appropriate countermeasures including barring, anti constitutional measures such as covert video taping of players and sharing these secret phots with other subscribers so the players can be instantly recognized even before he sits at any table. Sure lucky streak players are usually tolerated & even encouraged awaiting for the streak to come to end - often times that end is given assist, as you well know. The strip pit operators don't seem to care how much Mr Lucky wins (up to point) it's how he wins that concerns them- so when some form artificial intelligence is overconimg the edge the PB wants to know what's gone wrong with the game.

          I have always respected your contributions here 7/11 so I am not being deliberftely contentious. however to do try give players a inside peek into ground zero gambling w/casinos & their realistic counterculture environments.

          Coin, I look forward to more of your sharing tales the other side of the table. Wink

           

          Viva Las Vegas

          Where the bones are always rolling-

          EddessaKnight Patriot

            Coin Toss's avatar - shape barbed.jpg
            Zeta Reticuli Star System
            United States
            Member #30470
            January 17, 2006
            10354 Posts
            Offline
            Posted: December 7, 2010, 6:09 pm - IP Logged

            Hey there edessaknight,

            There used to be a site called Rollling Good Times On the River. It was run by some people in St. Louis and came into being with the casino river boats but they completely changed gears and changed their site to other intersts.

            I wrote a few things for them, but that was two or three computers ago for me, and it's all gone. (Natch I thought the site would stsay up).

            Bang Head

             

            Heres' one for you, this happened at the Marina, early 1980's. (Darn that was a good place!)

            Security was making its patrol of the parking lot and they noticed a RV with the door open and the lights on. There were two guys inside and they invited the security guys in (Incredible, read on).

            They had a TV in the RV that was showing one of the BJ tables in the casino. A player on the game, part of this team, had a camera that was picking up on the dealer's hole card and broadcasting it. They had a transmitter and receiver set up. They would see the image on the TV, tell the player in the pit what the dealer's hole card was, and the player would play the hand accordingly.

            There'a  variation of this scam where a player is suppossedly handicapped and in a wheelchair. This is why pit bosses aree always wary of 21 players in wheelchairs.

            But these guys in the RV were pretty high-tech for that time and only got caught because the RV door was open and they invited security in.

            ________________________________________

            As for "covert video taping" of players, I don't think you can call it that. Anyone who steps foot into a casino should assume they are on camera, because they are.

            I had a buddy I workled with who had been the graveyard surveillance guy for one of the Boyd group casinos. He was back in the dice pits after he had gotten written up. He was the man on graveyard, and was reading a book in the surveillance room. Yup, they had a camera on him, too.

            "Sharing these secret photos with other subscribers" is common, yeah. But they go to the guys that run the infamous "Black Book" and to otheer casino surveillance rooms. "We had a guy past posting on roulette and asked him to leave, he's headed to your joint." Nope, not unconstitutional at all.

            Nevada is refered to in some circles as "The United Stastes of Nevada" because they have their own laws they abide by in the business.

            Don't forget the Nevada law about "Defeauding an innkeeper", it's the catch all for anything not ccovered by anything else.

            Also, the casino rule of thumb for things beyond the norm is, "Only if it's to the advantage of the house."

            Those who run the lotteries love it when players look for consistency in something that's designed not to have any.

            Lep

            There is one and only one 'proven' system, and that is to book the action. No matter the game, let the players pick their own losers.

              eddessaknight's avatar - nw paladin.jpg
              LAS VEGAS
              United States
              Member #47729
              November 22, 2006
              4507 Posts
              Offline
              Posted: December 30, 2010, 4:14 pm - IP Logged

              Hey there edessaknight,

              There used to be a site called Rollling Good Times On the River. It was run by some people in St. Louis and came into being with the casino river boats but they completely changed gears and changed their site to other intersts.

              I wrote a few things for them, but that was two or three computers ago for me, and it's all gone. (Natch I thought the site would stsay up).

              Bang Head

               

              Heres' one for you, this happened at the Marina, early 1980's. (Darn that was a good place!)

              Security was making its patrol of the parking lot and they noticed a RV with the door open and the lights on. There were two guys inside and they invited the security guys in (Incredible, read on).

              They had a TV in the RV that was showing one of the BJ tables in the casino. A player on the game, part of this team, had a camera that was picking up on the dealer's hole card and broadcasting it. They had a transmitter and receiver set up. They would see the image on the TV, tell the player in the pit what the dealer's hole card was, and the player would play the hand accordingly.

              There'a  variation of this scam where a player is suppossedly handicapped and in a wheelchair. This is why pit bosses aree always wary of 21 players in wheelchairs.

              But these guys in the RV were pretty high-tech for that time and only got caught because the RV door was open and they invited security in.

              ________________________________________

              As for "covert video taping" of players, I don't think you can call it that. Anyone who steps foot into a casino should assume they are on camera, because they are.

              I had a buddy I workled with who had been the graveyard surveillance guy for one of the Boyd group casinos. He was back in the dice pits after he had gotten written up. He was the man on graveyard, and was reading a book in the surveillance room. Yup, they had a camera on him, too.

              "Sharing these secret photos with other subscribers" is common, yeah. But they go to the guys that run the infamous "Black Book" and to otheer casino surveillance rooms. "We had a guy past posting on roulette and asked him to leave, he's headed to your joint." Nope, not unconstitutional at all.

              Nevada is refered to in some circles as "The United Stastes of Nevada" because they have their own laws they abide by in the business.

              Don't forget the Nevada law about "Defeauding an innkeeper", it's the catch all for anything not ccovered by anything else.

              Also, the casino rule of thumb for things beyond the norm is, "Only if it's to the advantage of the house."

              Respectfully in response , anyone who iwrites like so; si  to be commendedfor for dedicated loyalty to the casino industry; I am confident that that they were a profitable "house dealers" for all  past employers. I do enjoy colorful stories & shared casino experiences.

              There is no debate that all properties have certain obligations regarding safety, security, maintaining order & preventing thivery/cheating. To help these conditions they are equiped with a private army of armed security which is aided & abeted by the latest cutting edge technology that includes the telescopic all seeing Eye in the Sky & video recording; Radio Frequency Imbeded Chips (RFID);  table shills who double as spies;  pit & floor personel who constantly monitor players plus a whole host of unmentioned off the record procedures & devices 

              The unvarished truth is that along with sophisticated sharp players come cheats & teams of cheats to the capitol of gambling daily from all over the world in hope of ripping off a piece if $$$ action.

              NOW FOR THE REST OF THE STORY (late Paul Harvey)

              As per my veteran observations @ ground zero gambling Casino personell are known to lie, stone wall and vityually give up their first born rather then tell the truth Wink I find that getting the truth from a trusted housepeople can only be done via court supena or by a point of a 9mm Glock. In the know casino management is required to sign binding non-disclosore agreements regarding specific casino operations & conditions which will results in dismisal if broken. Other resort departments management such as food & beverage; entertainmemnt; housekeeping etc are not privy to casino procedures, profiling policy, countermeasures. If you have a husband or wife who is in casino operations they may share some tid bits but as a rule no trade secrets are tipped off in ths 'us (casino) vs them (players) mentality demonstrated 'Never wise up a sucker' or 'Don't give a sucker an even break' are the common. I have visted gaming schools where dealers are first first taught how to control the game & secondly how to beat the player. Big brush strokes to be sure, having said the above, 

              No one willingly can sign away their constitiunal protected bill of rights. The issue here is the casino photographing non-cheating legitamate winning players without their knowledge or consent & then storing/sharing these pix with subscribers down the line & employing a "G"detective agency who follows player via monitor secretely in car. As a friend in the court for intelligent players I contend that the practice is a direct violation of citizen privacy under our Fourth Amemndment ( see below)

              There are scores of witneses, newspaper accounts and a pile formal complaints @ the Gaming Control Board

              ~

              Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution

              From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
              The Bill of Rights in the National Archives.

              The Fourth Amendment (Amendment IV) to the United States Constitution is the part of the Bill of Rights which guards against unreasonable searches and seizures when the searched party has a "reasonable expectation of privacy". The amendment specifically also requires search and arrest warrants be judicially sanctioned and supported by probable cause. It was adopted as a response to the abuse of the writ of assistance, which is a type of general search warrant, in the American Revolution. Search and arrest should be limited in scope according to specific information supplied to the issuing court, usually by a law enforcement officer, who has sworn by it.

              ~

              Even the NRS 207.200 Unlawful trespass upon land; warning against trespassing does not cancel these rights. Mind you, it's their property,their game machinery and their all star trained dealers vs you and right or wrong they can eject & ban from the casino

              This is the reality of what you could be dealing with, down & dirty

              *This fdes not constitute an attack on any board member ot intended to prvoke flaming and  doesn't imply that all casinos nor their employees always mainipulate, cheat nor harass their customers in their effort to weed out the dishonest players or casino staff.

              In the past I have been censored/deleted for telling my findings for the benefit of visiting players about realtime casino culture of countermeasures. My intention is to inform & warn the unitiated about the potential negative casino reactions guilty or innocent.!

               

              Wishing all member players a Happy, Healthy, & Lucky New YearHat

              EddessaKnight Sun Smiley

                eddessaknight's avatar - nw paladin.jpg
                LAS VEGAS
                United States
                Member #47729
                November 22, 2006
                4507 Posts
                Offline
                Posted: January 8, 2011, 5:34 pm - IP Logged

                Respectfully in response , anyone who iwrites like so; si  to be commendedfor for dedicated loyalty to the casino industry; I am confident that that they were a profitable "house dealers" for all  past employers. I do enjoy colorful stories & shared casino experiences.

                There is no debate that all properties have certain obligations regarding safety, security, maintaining order & preventing thivery/cheating. To help these conditions they are equiped with a private army of armed security which is aided & abeted by the latest cutting edge technology that includes the telescopic all seeing Eye in the Sky & video recording; Radio Frequency Imbeded Chips (RFID);  table shills who double as spies;  pit & floor personel who constantly monitor players plus a whole host of unmentioned off the record procedures & devices 

                The unvarished truth is that along with sophisticated sharp players come cheats & teams of cheats to the capitol of gambling daily from all over the world in hope of ripping off a piece if $$$ action.

                NOW FOR THE REST OF THE STORY (late Paul Harvey)

                As per my veteran observations @ ground zero gambling Casino personell are known to lie, stone wall and vityually give up their first born rather then tell the truth Wink I find that getting the truth from a trusted housepeople can only be done via court supena or by a point of a 9mm Glock. In the know casino management is required to sign binding non-disclosore agreements regarding specific casino operations & conditions which will results in dismisal if broken. Other resort departments management such as food & beverage; entertainmemnt; housekeeping etc are not privy to casino procedures, profiling policy, countermeasures. If you have a husband or wife who is in casino operations they may share some tid bits but as a rule no trade secrets are tipped off in ths 'us (casino) vs them (players) mentality demonstrated 'Never wise up a sucker' or 'Don't give a sucker an even break' are the common. I have visted gaming schools where dealers are first first taught how to control the game & secondly how to beat the player. Big brush strokes to be sure, having said the above, 

                No one willingly can sign away their constitiunal protected bill of rights. The issue here is the casino photographing non-cheating legitamate winning players without their knowledge or consent & then storing/sharing these pix with subscribers down the line & employing a "G"detective agency who follows player via monitor secretely in car. As a friend in the court for intelligent players I contend that the practice is a direct violation of citizen privacy under our Fourth Amemndment ( see below)

                There are scores of witneses, newspaper accounts and a pile formal complaints @ the Gaming Control Board

                ~

                Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution

                From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
                The Bill of Rights in the National Archives.

                The Fourth Amendment (Amendment IV) to the United States Constitution is the part of the Bill of Rights which guards against unreasonable searches and seizures when the searched party has a "reasonable expectation of privacy". The amendment specifically also requires search and arrest warrants be judicially sanctioned and supported by probable cause. It was adopted as a response to the abuse of the writ of assistance, which is a type of general search warrant, in the American Revolution. Search and arrest should be limited in scope according to specific information supplied to the issuing court, usually by a law enforcement officer, who has sworn by it.

                ~

                Even the NRS 207.200 Unlawful trespass upon land; warning against trespassing does not cancel these rights. Mind you, it's their property,their game machinery and their all star trained dealers vs you and right or wrong they can eject & ban from the casino

                This is the reality of what you could be dealing with, down & dirty

                *This fdes not constitute an attack on any board member ot intended to prvoke flaming and  doesn't imply that all casinos nor their employees always mainipulate, cheat nor harass their customers in their effort to weed out the dishonest players or casino staff.

                In the past I have been censored/deleted for telling my findings for the benefit of visiting players about realtime casino culture of countermeasures. My intention is to inform & warn the unitiated about the potential negative casino reactions guilty or innocent.!

                 

                Wishing all member players a Happy, Healthy, & Lucky New YearHat

                EddessaKnight Sun Smiley

                "A vistor to a hotel does have a right to privacy"; She also said Nevada law limits guards detaing guests.

                `M. McLetchie Esq, Director Civil Liberties Union Nevada

                ~

                "It's important to knowthat many times hotel secuirty are empowered by Metro Police officers that are just serving as bacckup.
                ~Mc letchie

                 

                No one, including casino security, police or the courts can overide anyone's Bill of Rights that are guranteed by our US Constitution!

                 

                Remember what we don't protect. we lose....

                EddessaKnight Sun Smiley

                  eddessaknight's avatar - nw paladin.jpg
                  LAS VEGAS
                  United States
                  Member #47729
                  November 22, 2006
                  4507 Posts
                  Offline
                  Posted: January 17, 2011, 2:39 pm - IP Logged

                  "A vistor to a hotel does have a right to privacy"; She also said Nevada law limits guards detaing guests.

                  `M. McLetchie Esq, Director Civil Liberties Union Nevada

                  ~

                  "It's important to knowthat many times hotel secuirty are empowered by Metro Police officers that are just serving as bacckup.
                  ~Mc letchie

                   

                  No one, including casino security, police or the courts can overide anyone's Bill of Rights that are guranteed by our US Constitution!

                   

                  Remember what we don't protect. we lose....

                  EddessaKnight Sun Smiley

                  Have been recieiving emails & PMs on topic, as I am not posting daily, I am unable to answer each inquery individually so I will post this actual flagrant example of unethical casino interference.

                  Further sharing experiences of "casino heat" & countermeasures. Heat as in interferences put by the casinos to prevent players from continuing winning.

                  Latest one seen at local casino last sunday is this:

                  There was this sympathetic old supervisor guy, he goes around the tables, a bit at bac, a bit at blackjack, at studpoker and of course at roulette.

                  At this local casino there are only two real roulette tables, this happened at the table in front of me so I couldn't grasp all the "action" (there is not even a marquee at this casino, you have to take notes yourself and be sharp). I've heard from a guy sitting next to me earlier at the wheel in front number 3 showed three times despite dealer spinning it really fast, I just forget about this, then I listen "otra vez, sin hacer nada" = "once again, without doing anything", there was a guy raking big chips and he just won on the same number out of not taking the chips from it, as the next spin is performed, the sympathetic old supervisor guy approaches and ENTERS HIS HAND ON THE BOWL WHILE THE BALL IS SPINNING, stopping the ball. Player said: "ese tiro no vale" = "That shot isn't valid", then between smiles acknowledging it isn't a valid spin, the dealer grabs the ball and re-spin.

                  At our little casino regulars know each other, and some are friends with the staff, but the fact he made this when the player was raking BIG at the casino made me a little suspicious. Was this an interference to the guy in order to interrupt the game flow? More likely. At times some guys stack insane chip towers and this guy was doing it...  WINNING. This sure draws attention, and well, I think I witnessed an instance of casino heat.

                  thanks Victor

                  Always remain en garde

                  EddessaKnight Sun Smiley

                    eddessaknight's avatar - nw paladin.jpg
                    LAS VEGAS
                    United States
                    Member #47729
                    November 22, 2006
                    4507 Posts
                    Offline
                    Posted: January 24, 2011, 4:03 pm - IP Logged

                    Have been recieiving emails & PMs on topic, as I am not posting daily, I am unable to answer each inquery individually so I will post this actual flagrant example of unethical casino interference.

                    Further sharing experiences of "casino heat" & countermeasures. Heat as in interferences put by the casinos to prevent players from continuing winning.

                    Latest one seen at local casino last sunday is this:

                    There was this sympathetic old supervisor guy, he goes around the tables, a bit at bac, a bit at blackjack, at studpoker and of course at roulette.

                    At this local casino there are only two real roulette tables, this happened at the table in front of me so I couldn't grasp all the "action" (there is not even a marquee at this casino, you have to take notes yourself and be sharp). I've heard from a guy sitting next to me earlier at the wheel in front number 3 showed three times despite dealer spinning it really fast, I just forget about this, then I listen "otra vez, sin hacer nada" = "once again, without doing anything", there was a guy raking big chips and he just won on the same number out of not taking the chips from it, as the next spin is performed, the sympathetic old supervisor guy approaches and ENTERS HIS HAND ON THE BOWL WHILE THE BALL IS SPINNING, stopping the ball. Player said: "ese tiro no vale" = "That shot isn't valid", then between smiles acknowledging it isn't a valid spin, the dealer grabs the ball and re-spin.

                    At our little casino regulars know each other, and some are friends with the staff, but the fact he made this when the player was raking BIG at the casino made me a little suspicious. Was this an interference to the guy in order to interrupt the game flow? More likely. At times some guys stack insane chip towers and this guy was doing it...  WINNING. This sure draws attention, and well, I think I witnessed an instance of casino heat.

                    thanks Victor

                    Always remain en garde

                    EddessaKnight Sun Smiley

                    I am back on line & recieving more actual casino con ulture stories; this one from London

                    Ali Baba, legendary figure from 1001 Arabian Nights fame was lucky as he noly had 40 thieves to deal with Wink

                    Wherever you play, be alert, safe & careful

                    EddessaKnightSun Smiley

                    ~

                     

                    This is the story of Aspinall, Hill and the Clermont Club scam.

                    John Aspinall
                    John Aspinall was born into a British army family in India 1926. After his parents' divorce his mother married Sir George Osborne, who paid for the young man to go to private boarding school at Rugby. He was expelled for having an 'idle and rebellious'' attitude, and after serving in the Royal Marines for three years he went to Oxford University but his interests were not academic. A self-styled rake and buccaneer, he was interested in money and social climbing and wanted to join the elite of British society. He displayed an extraordinary skill at poker which enabled him to infiltrate a crowd of smart gambling degenerates, including one James Goldsmith who became a lifelong friend.

                    At the time in post war Britain the class divide was immense and rigidly demarcated. Gambling in casinos and betting shops was illegal and no-one had used gambling before as a way of jumping classes. Aspinall was about to exploit a weakness in the system to achieve his ends.

                    Aspinall realised he could circumvent the existing gaming laws which banned gambling from fixed addresses, by running gambling games, invariably chemin de fer and baccarat, 'floating' each night between private' high quality Mayfair and Knightsbridge addresses, which the law did not cover. As organiser, he and his partner, John Burke, took a cut of every 'pot'.

                    He struck a nerve in austere postwar Britain and wealthy customers flocked to his gatherings as his reputation for high quality gambling house parties spread. Aspinall made sure that only those with large amounts of money were allowed entrance. They included friends of Royalty and many of Britain's landed gentry including the Earl of Derby, Lord 'Lucky' Lucan and the Duke of Devonshire. He attracted so many well-placed players that when the games were finally shut down by the police in 1958, the action led to the passing of the 1960 Gaming Act, a new law permitting gambling, passed as a direct result of an abortive raid on one of Aspinall's gambling parties.

                    The Clermont Club
                    So Aspinall had created the social and legal framework to take the next logical step to further his ambitions for upward mobility and in 1962 he opened the Clermont Club in Berkeley Square. It quickly became famous for the Mayfair set that frequented it and for Annabel's in the basement, the dance and dinner club that became London's most fashionable and exclusive evening spot. To make the gaming as discreet and exclusive as possible, membership in the gaming rooms was deliberately limited to 600 and included 5 dukes, 5 marquesses and 20 earls.


                    Aspinall's managerial style at his successive gaming establishments showed him at his worst, for he showed no compunction in charming, shaming and bullying rich young men into gambling beyond their means. He also went into partnership with one of the most ruthless and powerful mobsters of the London underworld, Billy Hill.

                      cypher's avatar - shapes swish.jpg

                      United States
                      Member #80204
                      September 18, 2009
                      35 Posts
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                      Posted: January 25, 2011, 12:38 am - IP Logged

                      I am back on line & recieving more actual casino con ulture stories; this one from London

                      Ali Baba, legendary figure from 1001 Arabian Nights fame was lucky as he noly had 40 thieves to deal with Wink

                      Wherever you play, be alert, safe & careful

                      EddessaKnightSun Smiley

                      ~

                       

                      This is the story of Aspinall, Hill and the Clermont Club scam.

                      John Aspinall
                      John Aspinall was born into a British army family in India 1926. After his parents' divorce his mother married Sir George Osborne, who paid for the young man to go to private boarding school at Rugby. He was expelled for having an 'idle and rebellious'' attitude, and after serving in the Royal Marines for three years he went to Oxford University but his interests were not academic. A self-styled rake and buccaneer, he was interested in money and social climbing and wanted to join the elite of British society. He displayed an extraordinary skill at poker which enabled him to infiltrate a crowd of smart gambling degenerates, including one James Goldsmith who became a lifelong friend.

                      At the time in post war Britain the class divide was immense and rigidly demarcated. Gambling in casinos and betting shops was illegal and no-one had used gambling before as a way of jumping classes. Aspinall was about to exploit a weakness in the system to achieve his ends.

                      Aspinall realised he could circumvent the existing gaming laws which banned gambling from fixed addresses, by running gambling games, invariably chemin de fer and baccarat, 'floating' each night between private' high quality Mayfair and Knightsbridge addresses, which the law did not cover. As organiser, he and his partner, John Burke, took a cut of every 'pot'.

                      He struck a nerve in austere postwar Britain and wealthy customers flocked to his gatherings as his reputation for high quality gambling house parties spread. Aspinall made sure that only those with large amounts of money were allowed entrance. They included friends of Royalty and many of Britain's landed gentry including the Earl of Derby, Lord 'Lucky' Lucan and the Duke of Devonshire. He attracted so many well-placed players that when the games were finally shut down by the police in 1958, the action led to the passing of the 1960 Gaming Act, a new law permitting gambling, passed as a direct result of an abortive raid on one of Aspinall's gambling parties.

                      The Clermont Club
                      So Aspinall had created the social and legal framework to take the next logical step to further his ambitions for upward mobility and in 1962 he opened the Clermont Club in Berkeley Square. It quickly became famous for the Mayfair set that frequented it and for Annabel's in the basement, the dance and dinner club that became London's most fashionable and exclusive evening spot. To make the gaming as discreet and exclusive as possible, membership in the gaming rooms was deliberately limited to 600 and included 5 dukes, 5 marquesses and 20 earls.


                      Aspinall's managerial style at his successive gaming establishments showed him at his worst, for he showed no compunction in charming, shaming and bullying rich young men into gambling beyond their means. He also went into partnership with one of the most ruthless and powerful mobsters of the London underworld, Billy Hill.

                      eddessaknight:  Great story!  How have u been?  I know I've been MIA here for awhile.  I've been very, very busy with various projects and have half of them operational.  Just popped in to peruse LP and came across this thread.  True that about "heat" and "skillful dealers".  I have experienced both although skilled dealers are not prolific in number.  Here's my story on "heat".

                      I was playing in '96 and stacking chips and winning like there was no tomorrow and I was in a zone so to speak.  It started with the PB interrupting the game doing a ball check and finally deciding to replace it.  Later some mumbling between the PB and dealer went down with the dealer afterwards began fumbling with the wheel and for some reason the marquee stopped working but it didn't faze me as I always keep a card notation going just for that reason.  I still kept doing some serious winning and the next thing that happened was there were six dealer changes in rather rapid succession, some only made one spin before being changed.  This was some strange activity alright and the last thing that happened was the PB announced to the last changed dealer that the table would be closed in the next fifteen minutes.  I've seen other forms of heat applied as well on many occasions where the player was in a zone.  I figure that it's done to mess with the players psychologically.  As far as dealer skills go I have witnessed this a few times.  One was where a dealer stated what number would be hit and sure enough it happened:  a female dealer had entered the game and after a few spins states out loud before I leave this table I will hit number seven.  The game progressed with people coming and going and no number seven appeared in her spins.  She announced to the table that she was leaving and this was her last spin.  I remembered what she had said and placed my wagers on and all around number seven in the straight, splits, corners and line.  Low and behold the ball drops into number seven!  Coincidence? Can't make me believe it was.  While making the pay out to me she says, "I told you I'd hit number seven before I leave", and smiled! Anyways, what I have learned about dealers is to watch them carefully...if they are methodical in their spins, do they watch when placing the ball, do they watch the table with intent (areas where the money is being wagered).  If any of these things are happening you just may have a real veteran dealer on your hands and is probably one of the few that can have the ball fall where they want it to.

                      Last but not least I want to say that roulette is not a random game there are numerical relationships and I'm not generalizing here in some old adage like seven come eleven either...one needs to look at the table with new eyes to understand my statement.  One hint is to stop looking at the layout as numbered from 1-36.  You don't need all of that clouding your judgement.  Nuff said!

                      "Quite often, more is less!"

                        eddessaknight's avatar - nw paladin.jpg
                        LAS VEGAS
                        United States
                        Member #47729
                        November 22, 2006
                        4507 Posts
                        Offline
                        Posted: January 26, 2011, 10:12 pm - IP Logged

                        eddessaknight:  Great story!  How have u been?  I know I've been MIA here for awhile.  I've been very, very busy with various projects and have half of them operational.  Just popped in to peruse LP and came across this thread.  True that about "heat" and "skillful dealers".  I have experienced both although skilled dealers are not prolific in number.  Here's my story on "heat".

                        I was playing in '96 and stacking chips and winning like there was no tomorrow and I was in a zone so to speak.  It started with the PB interrupting the game doing a ball check and finally deciding to replace it.  Later some mumbling between the PB and dealer went down with the dealer afterwards began fumbling with the wheel and for some reason the marquee stopped working but it didn't faze me as I always keep a card notation going just for that reason.  I still kept doing some serious winning and the next thing that happened was there were six dealer changes in rather rapid succession, some only made one spin before being changed.  This was some strange activity alright and the last thing that happened was the PB announced to the last changed dealer that the table would be closed in the next fifteen minutes.  I've seen other forms of heat applied as well on many occasions where the player was in a zone.  I figure that it's done to mess with the players psychologically.  As far as dealer skills go I have witnessed this a few times.  One was where a dealer stated what number would be hit and sure enough it happened:  a female dealer had entered the game and after a few spins states out loud before I leave this table I will hit number seven.  The game progressed with people coming and going and no number seven appeared in her spins.  She announced to the table that she was leaving and this was her last spin.  I remembered what she had said and placed my wagers on and all around number seven in the straight, splits, corners and line.  Low and behold the ball drops into number seven!  Coincidence? Can't make me believe it was.  While making the pay out to me she says, "I told you I'd hit number seven before I leave", and smiled! Anyways, what I have learned about dealers is to watch them carefully...if they are methodical in their spins, do they watch when placing the ball, do they watch the table with intent (areas where the money is being wagered).  If any of these things are happening you just may have a real veteran dealer on your hands and is probably one of the few that can have the ball fall where they want it to.

                        Last but not least I want to say that roulette is not a random game there are numerical relationships and I'm not generalizing here in some old adage like seven come eleven either...one needs to look at the table with new eyes to understand my statement.  One hint is to stop looking at the layout as numbered from 1-36.  You don't need all of that clouding your judgement.  Nuff said!

                        Hey Cypher-

                        Welcome back, you have been missed!

                        Many thanks for sharing your abnormal roulette experiences. Many players (who are not casino personell)  will have to personally deal with casino reactions before believing; somethings  have to be belived before they are seen

                        ~

                        "roulette is not a random game" ~Cypher                                                                                                                       Absolutely as nothing is truly random, it jusy appears like that when all the details are unkown.

                        "there are numerical relationships" ~Cypher                                                                                                                                               All things  work like a Clock. It is up to Us to find the alfa numeric relationships and that TIME-algorithm.

                        BOTTOM LINE ON ROULETTE:   

                        If roulette wasn't beatable, they wouldn't bother with the counter-measures PERIOD

                        ~

                        Well now, since you are back in the sadle & back in the irons, I am hoping to get back in the winner's circle. I was off line not posting for several weeks.

                        A race track is a place where windows clean people."LOL 
                        ~Danny Thomas
                          

                        Keep On Winning & Stay in touch >>>>>>

                        EddessaKnightSun Smiley


                          United States
                          Member #93947
                          July 10, 2010
                          2180 Posts
                          Offline
                          Posted: January 28, 2011, 1:04 am - IP Logged

                          Respectfully in response , anyone who iwrites like so; si  to be commendedfor for dedicated loyalty to the casino industry; I am confident that that they were a profitable "house dealers" for all  past employers. I do enjoy colorful stories & shared casino experiences.

                          There is no debate that all properties have certain obligations regarding safety, security, maintaining order & preventing thivery/cheating. To help these conditions they are equiped with a private army of armed security which is aided & abeted by the latest cutting edge technology that includes the telescopic all seeing Eye in the Sky & video recording; Radio Frequency Imbeded Chips (RFID);  table shills who double as spies;  pit & floor personel who constantly monitor players plus a whole host of unmentioned off the record procedures & devices 

                          The unvarished truth is that along with sophisticated sharp players come cheats & teams of cheats to the capitol of gambling daily from all over the world in hope of ripping off a piece if $$$ action.

                          NOW FOR THE REST OF THE STORY (late Paul Harvey)

                          As per my veteran observations @ ground zero gambling Casino personell are known to lie, stone wall and vityually give up their first born rather then tell the truth Wink I find that getting the truth from a trusted housepeople can only be done via court supena or by a point of a 9mm Glock. In the know casino management is required to sign binding non-disclosore agreements regarding specific casino operations & conditions which will results in dismisal if broken. Other resort departments management such as food & beverage; entertainmemnt; housekeeping etc are not privy to casino procedures, profiling policy, countermeasures. If you have a husband or wife who is in casino operations they may share some tid bits but as a rule no trade secrets are tipped off in ths 'us (casino) vs them (players) mentality demonstrated 'Never wise up a sucker' or 'Don't give a sucker an even break' are the common. I have visted gaming schools where dealers are first first taught how to control the game & secondly how to beat the player. Big brush strokes to be sure, having said the above, 

                          No one willingly can sign away their constitiunal protected bill of rights. The issue here is the casino photographing non-cheating legitamate winning players without their knowledge or consent & then storing/sharing these pix with subscribers down the line & employing a "G"detective agency who follows player via monitor secretely in car. As a friend in the court for intelligent players I contend that the practice is a direct violation of citizen privacy under our Fourth Amemndment ( see below)

                          There are scores of witneses, newspaper accounts and a pile formal complaints @ the Gaming Control Board

                          ~

                          Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution

                          From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
                          The Bill of Rights in the National Archives.

                          The Fourth Amendment (Amendment IV) to the United States Constitution is the part of the Bill of Rights which guards against unreasonable searches and seizures when the searched party has a "reasonable expectation of privacy". The amendment specifically also requires search and arrest warrants be judicially sanctioned and supported by probable cause. It was adopted as a response to the abuse of the writ of assistance, which is a type of general search warrant, in the American Revolution. Search and arrest should be limited in scope according to specific information supplied to the issuing court, usually by a law enforcement officer, who has sworn by it.

                          ~

                          Even the NRS 207.200 Unlawful trespass upon land; warning against trespassing does not cancel these rights. Mind you, it's their property,their game machinery and their all star trained dealers vs you and right or wrong they can eject & ban from the casino

                          This is the reality of what you could be dealing with, down & dirty

                          *This fdes not constitute an attack on any board member ot intended to prvoke flaming and  doesn't imply that all casinos nor their employees always mainipulate, cheat nor harass their customers in their effort to weed out the dishonest players or casino staff.

                          In the past I have been censored/deleted for telling my findings for the benefit of visiting players about realtime casino culture of countermeasures. My intention is to inform & warn the unitiated about the potential negative casino reactions guilty or innocent.!

                           

                          Wishing all member players a Happy, Healthy, & Lucky New YearHat

                          EddessaKnight Sun Smiley

                          Hi Eddessaknight,

                          My question is a little late and slightly off topic but this seems like the most appropriate context for it.

                          In the past, when I'd see movies or read news items that dealt with the rough treatment received by alleged "cheaters" in casinos, I could always see how they could justify banning the kinds of activities I see described here, hidden cameras, collaborating teams, etc., etc.  However, I could never understand the "rationale" for calling card counting in Blackjack "cheating" if a lone player had the mental capacity to do it successfully on their own without any technological help.  So, my question is, what was[is] the legal  "rationale" that casinos use[ed] to insist that a player purposely forget what cards have been played?

                          I understand counting is not as vigorously banned as in the past, which probably accounts for the adoption of the "countermeasure" of huge shoes of cards, so I guess my first question refers more to the past.

                          Thanks,

                          --Jimmy4164

                            Coin Toss's avatar - shape barbed.jpg
                            Zeta Reticuli Star System
                            United States
                            Member #30470
                            January 17, 2006
                            10354 Posts
                            Offline
                            Posted: January 29, 2011, 12:56 am - IP Logged

                            jimmy4164,

                            Part of the concern over card counting was team play. The counter would give a signal on how rich the deck was and multiple players would jack up their bets.

                            The late Bob Stupak, when he had Vegas world casino, invited card counters to come play inhis joint. His theory was that even if the deck was dealt down to the last card, and everyone knew there were let's say a Jack and a six left in the deck, "only God knew which one was coming out first".

                            One thing most players don't know is that some of the casinos send their personnel to card counting schools, so often times they are counting right along with the players who are trying to count. It's also how some casino people themsleves become degenerate gamblers. they think they're good enough at it to go out and play and eventually the house edge eats them up, too.

                            Those who run the lotteries love it when players look for consistency in something that's designed not to have any.

                            Lep

                            There is one and only one 'proven' system, and that is to book the action. No matter the game, let the players pick their own losers.


                              United States
                              Member #93947
                              July 10, 2010
                              2180 Posts
                              Offline
                              Posted: January 29, 2011, 1:38 am - IP Logged

                              jimmy4164,

                              Part of the concern over card counting was team play. The counter would give a signal on how rich the deck was and multiple players would jack up their bets.

                              The late Bob Stupak, when he had Vegas world casino, invited card counters to come play inhis joint. His theory was that even if the deck was dealt down to the last card, and everyone knew there were let's say a Jack and a six left in the deck, "only God knew which one was coming out first".

                              One thing most players don't know is that some of the casinos send their personnel to card counting schools, so often times they are counting right along with the players who are trying to count. It's also how some casino people themsleves become degenerate gamblers. they think they're good enough at it to go out and play and eventually the house edge eats them up, too.

                              Thanks Coin Toss,

                              "One thing most players don't know is that some of the casinos send their personnel to card counting schools, so often times they are counting right along with the players who are trying to count."

                              Wow!  I didn't know that, but it makes sense.  I presume this would be so the dealer would know when to reshuffle(?)

                              But in the past, weren't they still pretty tough on even loan counters, publishing pictures of them, roughing them up, forcing them to disguise themselves?  Maybe it wasn't as bad as the movies I saw depicted.

                              --Jimmy4164