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Litigation Proofing your lottery pool

Topic closed. 30 replies. Last post 4 years ago by wwnerd.

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Posted: April 18, 2013, 5:59 am - IP Logged

Taking their winnings. 78 cents (Whoa) . Why shouldn't they contribute to my time and gas?

The personal tickets are not bought with "pool" money. Everyone has copies of all tickets before first drawing.

What if someone in the pool goes separate and buys personal tickets and wins. Do they owe me money?

Every penny is accounted for. I do not put a gun to these people's head and take their $20.

Would you pay 78 cents for someone to drive 110 miles so you can be in lottery?

"Help make it better with suggestions" Who's not covered here?

Unless I am conspiring with a lone lottery worker who writes the checks, how is this "everybody here warns people no to join" type lottery pool?

What am I missing? Legal contracts with 46 people

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    Posted: April 18, 2013, 6:03 am - IP Logged

    Liberties. You mean the "clearly explicit account" of where it goes and everyone is informed?

      schmuckatelly's avatar - half planet.jpg
      Jacksonville, Florida
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      Posted: April 18, 2013, 6:13 am - IP Logged

      Dump the inconsitencies.

      For my pool at work, I have stated dues for the following month is duy by the 29th. If I don't have they money by then you are not in the pool for next month. The agreement everybody has signed is good for as long as their are no changes. Any changes to the agreement including adding/deleting players then a new agreement is printed out and resigned and the agreement has revision dates on it.

      Don't use winnings for gas money or lunch. If anything, ask all of them if they would like to donate $1 for gas for the drive otherwise you are on your own for that. In my lotto pool I have stated if winnings after split are .99 cents or less per person, then the money will go to the next drawing until there are no more funds or everybody wins at least $1. If your total pool winnings is $4.50 you will need to just add .50 cents from your pocket to buy that 5th ticket (if they are $1 each). In your case to prevent driving so far every few days, you may just want to cash out.

      Keep it simple and clear otherwise for sure you will be splitting money with people you did not intend to split with.

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        Posted: April 18, 2013, 6:19 am - IP Logged

        Thank you. Some constructiveness

        I am hoping the electronic trail will bolster the fact that "they new as well as everyone else new" they were not in BEFORE THE FIRST DRAWING. And they waited until after we hit to say anything.

        Personal tickets that are not divisible by 20 and the fact it can be shown that everyone had copies of the tickets BEFORE THE FIRST DRAWING should add some weight with the judge.

        Plus I have proof of the "turdheads" fragmented participation over a 3 year period. 

        Are you saying the contract should be signed everytime I collect?

        How can someone get paid if I have historic proof they have never been in the pool?

        Thanks

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          Posted: April 18, 2013, 6:23 am - IP Logged

          My whole purpose is to have holes shot through it so I can make it better.

          I encourage all input.

          I know I haven't thought of everything

          Thanks

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            Posted: April 18, 2013, 6:26 am - IP Logged

            Awesome

            Thanks

              schmuckatelly's avatar - half planet.jpg
              Jacksonville, Florida
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              Posted: April 18, 2013, 6:39 am - IP Logged

              Thank you. Some constructiveness

              I am hoping the electronic trail will bolster the fact that "they new as well as everyone else new" they were not in BEFORE THE FIRST DRAWING. And they waited until after we hit to say anything.

              Personal tickets that are not divisible by 20 and the fact it can be shown that everyone had copies of the tickets BEFORE THE FIRST DRAWING should add some weight with the judge.

              Plus I have proof of the "turdheads" fragmented participation over a 3 year period. 

              Are you saying the contract should be signed everytime I collect?

              How can someone get paid if I have historic proof they have never been in the pool?

              Thanks

              FLORIDA “MEGA MONEY” MONTHLY LOTTERY POOL AGREEMENT

              By (name)

              This is an agreement for our MEGA MONEY pool; this is not a contract making you play monthly.

              1. Drawings are held every Tuesday and Friday night. The cost to play is $2 per drawing or about $18 per month. No partial dues allowed. Money is accepted any time and is due no later than the 29th of each month to play in the following month. Do not pay more than the monthly due; this will not increase your payout. Money can be paid to (name) or (name). One of us will have a journal of who pays, and when you pay you will have to sign and (name) or (name) will initial. IF YOU HAVE NOT PAID FOR THE NEXT MONTH, YOU ARE NOT IN THE POOL AND YOU CAN NOT COLLECT ANY PORTION OF WINNINGS and your name will be crossed out on this agreement. If you loan money to another member, it is your responsibility to get repaid. Money from the pot will not be used to payback.
              2. Mega Money tickets will be purchased and distributed to all members before the first drawing of the month. Primary means of distribution will be by email. At this time a list of paying members for the month will also be emailed. You may request paper copy of the tickets but you might not receive it before the first drawing. ONLY THE NUMBERS EMAILED TO THE GROUP CAN BE CLAIMED BY THE GROUP.
              3. All members of the pool are free to purchase their own tickets or be in another pool. No one in this pool will have a claim on another’s winnings from tickets purchased individually or as part of another pool. When (name) or (name) buys tickets for the pool, they shall not buy their own tickets at that same time.

              WINNINGS

              1. All winnings will be collected by (name) or (name).
              2. Free tickets – Free ticket winnings will be claimed at the end of the month and the free ticket will be used for the 1st drawing of the following month and is only good for one drawing.
              3. Cash $599 and under – Winnings will go towards your next month monthly due unless you wish to withdraw from the pool and at that time you will be cashed out. Anything over the next month dues will be split evenly.
              4. Cash $600 and over – Florida Lottery reports any winnings over $600 to the IRS and IRS form W2-G is filled out by lottery officials. To prevent only the person collecting money being taxed, IRS form 5754 must be filled out by all members and turned in to complete W2-G. The individual collecting the money will be turning in form 5754. The information needed on 5754 is: Name, Social Security Number or Tax ID Number, your address, and your winning share. We have 180 days to claim the money. So others can get their money, if this information is not provided by the 180th day, you forfeit any winnings and the prize will be split among the players that have provided their information for IRS form 5754.
              5. JACKPOT WINNINGS Will be collected as a onetime lump sum and split evenly. To prevent only the person collecting money being taxed, IRS form 5754 must be filled out by all members and turned in to complete IRS W2-G. FLORIDA LOTTERY RULES STATES LUMP SUM PAYOUTS INCLUDING FLORIDA “MEGA MONEY” MUST BE CLAIMED WITHIN 60 DAYS. So others can get their money, if this information is not provided by the 60th day, you forfeit any winnings and the prize will be split among the players that have provided their information for IRS form 5754.

              In the event of a lawsuit, this agreement will be presented in court. When signing this please provide an email address and contact phone number. If any contact information changes, it’s YOUR RESPONSIBILTY to notify (name) or (name). Any changes to the agreement, adding or deleting members, changing of contact information, a new agreement will be printed and signed.

              BY SIGNING THIS AGREEMENT, YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT YOU HAVE READ BOTH PAGES OF THIS AGREEMENT AND YOU UNDERSTAND THE TERMS IN THIS AGREEMENT

               

              ______NAME______________ EMAIL ADDRESS_______________PHONE NUMBER_

              1._________________________________________________________________________

              2._________________________________________________________________________

              3._________________________________________________________________________

              4._________________________________________________________________________

              5._________________________________________________________________________

              6._________________________________________________________________________

              7._________________________________________________________________________

              NO OTHER PLAYERS

                schmuckatelly's avatar - half planet.jpg
                Jacksonville, Florida
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                Posted: April 18, 2013, 6:41 am - IP Logged

                I also run Florida Lotto pool and a one time pool agreement (for when mega money is over a certain ammount) with similar language. This is the original I came up with, but I do have the .99 cent or less winnings incorporated into the final agreements.

                  savagegoose's avatar - ProfilePho
                  adelaide sa
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                  Posted: April 18, 2013, 6:44 am - IP Logged

                  i would like you to run my pools.

                  2014 = -1016; 2015= -1409; 2016  = -1171; 2017 = ?  TOT =  -3596

                  keno historic = -2291 ; 2015= -603; 2016= -424; 2017 = ? TOT = - 3318

                    schmuckatelly's avatar - half planet.jpg
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                    Posted: April 18, 2013, 6:47 am - IP Logged

                    Whoever is added to the pool I tell them, I ask that you play on a monthly basis because it becomes a hassle if you are well i cant this month but hit me up next month because you get into situations if you win free tickets or money and you use it for another drawing, the person that is no longer in it can still technically collect. I had a guy quit the job and because I collect the winnings at the end of the month, we bought more tickets with that winnings and while he wasnt in the pool the following month, the tickets were bought from winnings in the month he was in the pool, so legally he had a share from the new ticket. Luckily we didnt win anything and after that, he was free and clear from the pool.

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                      Posted: April 18, 2013, 6:56 am - IP Logged

                      That is the other hassle with people who are not consistenly in the pool.

                      I am very careful to look at the last participant list and only include those names with the ticket bought with winnings.

                      These people may only have their name on the $20 ticket sheet, but they get a copy of "all" tickets with their name excluded.

                      I list everyone alphabetically and the other 45 players know, and that person knows everyone knows they are excluded.

                       

                      Thanks

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                        Posted: April 18, 2013, 7:03 am - IP Logged

                        Thanks schmuckatelly

                        I would like to get my hands on court documents (rulings) of prevoius lawsuits from various states

                        I would love to make this "near" bulletproof

                          schmuckatelly's avatar - half planet.jpg
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                          Posted: April 18, 2013, 8:53 am - IP Logged

                          That is the other hassle with people who are not consistenly in the pool.

                          I am very careful to look at the last participant list and only include those names with the ticket bought with winnings.

                          These people may only have their name on the $20 ticket sheet, but they get a copy of "all" tickets with their name excluded.

                          I list everyone alphabetically and the other 45 players know, and that person knows everyone knows they are excluded.

                           

                          Thanks

                          If I read this correctly and the OP, you send a copy of the tickets with the names of the people who paid even to the ones that didn't pay?

                           

                          If so I would not do that. Reason being, that list of numbers could be a deciding factor in their favor in court. Who's to say you forgot to write their name on that list. 

                           

                          -If they don't have a list of numbers with their name,

                          -If they don't have some proof of reciept they paid,

                          -if they don't have a copy of email addressed to them,

                          then you stand a better chance of winning in a court, but give them 1 of those 3, and you got you a fight.

                           

                          Also, don't by your own ticket at the same time, even if it's not divisible by 20 or not emailed to others. I seriously doubt the place you go to is the only place in town that sells tickets unless the town has only 1 stop sign. That 5 minute trip to another store will be worth it and will be more fire power for you in court if you purchased seperatly from group pool tickets.

                           

                          http://www.lotterypost.com/news/257885  Look at that 3rd paragraph. This is not the only lawsuit like this of course.

                          http://www.lotterypost.com/news/257526 Look at the last 2 paragraphs. After, read the last 2 paragraphs carefully.

                            Original Bey's avatar - Lottery-022.jpg

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                            Posted: April 18, 2013, 10:18 am - IP Logged

                            Even if they take 54% taxes, it's still a million each. That is one hell of a month long vacation, 4 tires and dinner. Really?

                            Paris, Texas is wonderful this time of year! Motel rates are a bit pricey, but you can get a good deal if you're staying for the week.

                             

                            IF the jackpot annuity is at 100m, the cash value would be around 64m. After you divided it up, it won't quite be a million dollars. Of course, if you charge them for gas, mileage, entertainment fees (your car radio) for the drive to the lottery headquarters, you may be able to close that gap. This is also assuming that your pool is the sole winner of the JP. It would really suck if you had to split that 64m in half to then split it into 42, 43, 44, 45 ,46. Not sure which number would apply. Why not let the courts decide? lol!

                             

                            Let me give you some perspective, how many people across the US do you think played last night or the night before? 10m? 20m? 30m? Most of which were quick picks and the drawing did not produce ONE winner. Do you think 920 instead of 20 by yourself would reduce the odds from the realm of fantasy to a snowball's chance in hell?

                            "Everything works  ONCE!"

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                              Posted: April 18, 2013, 3:06 pm - IP Logged

                              If I read this correctly and the OP, you send a copy of the tickets with the names of the people who paid even to the ones that didn't pay?

                               

                              If so I would not do that. Reason being, that list of numbers could be a deciding factor in their favor in court. Who's to say you forgot to write their name on that list. 

                               

                              -If they don't have a list of numbers with their name,

                              -If they don't have some proof of reciept they paid,

                              -if they don't have a copy of email addressed to them,

                              then you stand a better chance of winning in a court, but give them 1 of those 3, and you got you a fight.

                               

                              Also, don't by your own ticket at the same time, even if it's not divisible by 20 or not emailed to others. I seriously doubt the place you go to is the only place in town that sells tickets unless the town has only 1 stop sign. That 5 minute trip to another store will be worth it and will be more fire power for you in court if you purchased seperatly from group pool tickets.

                               

                              http://www.lotterypost.com/news/257885  Look at that 3rd paragraph. This is not the only lawsuit like this of course.

                              http://www.lotterypost.com/news/257526 Look at the last 2 paragraphs. After, read the last 2 paragraphs carefully.

                              schmuckatelly,

                               

                              Here is my logic (Imay be wrong)

                              I send "copies to all" for a few reasons.

                              I could very well have made a mistake and I want that person to "catch it". The title of the email reads "check your names". That would mean 1 of 2 things. I lost the actual collection list and simply forgot them (remember it is maybe 1 or 2 of 4 turdheads) or they or myself are lying. Remember they are not to give me there $20 without seeing me check their name off the list.

                              I also want them to know 35 other people "know they know" that their name is not on the list. My guess two of the pertinent questions a judge will ask is "why did you not check your name and why did you only start disputing this list until after a win?"

                              You are hitting some excellent points and I want to thank you.

                              I think a few changes are merited:

                              They all sign a contract stating it is their responsibility to "check their name" and in a timely manner notify "all" of a problem (maybe 24 hours upon receipt). And it is their responsibility to "see" that their name is checked off the list when they buy in "before they hand me the money".

                              They cannot be in pool without having an email (two do not. one being a turdhead) in order to fulfill first part of contract agreement.

                              Great idea with stopping at "next store" to buy personal tickets. This will now be the rule.

                              From http://www.lotterypost.com/news/257885 :But another seven employees of the bakery have filed assorted lawsuits in Cook County Circuit Court claiming for various reasons they were part of the group that routinely purchased lottery tickets and should receive shares of the lottery prize.

                              The point is here that they obviously did not have names listed "explicitly to all" before the first drawing, or the ability to dispute this name list.

                              I buy groceries every payday Friday at the same store. Do I have a "right" to collect groceries one Friday without paying because I had paid "so many times before?"

                              From http://www.lotterypost.com/news/257526 : Tracy Williams just happened to be buying tickets for her office pool Thursday night at the same Speedway that sold Saturday's winning ticket.  She considers her plan foolproof.

                              "I make copies at work and pass them out at work," said Tracy.

                              So the big question for the judge: Can the woman who bought the lottery ticket prove she bought her wining ticket separately from the pool tickets?  If not, $9 million may be split eight different ways.

                               

                              I am seeing a possible dispute more clearly now. Even in earnest she did buy separate tickets for heself and distributed copies of intended pool tickets. Now it is very clear I must buy my personal tickets (not divisible by 20) at a different store.

                              Thank you once again. I will further protect us all from ourselves

                              Your input is invaluable