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Do you sign your tickets?

Topic closed. 59 replies. Last post 3 years ago by BigDMike.

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ttech10's avatar - blobdude
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Posted: January 2, 2014, 6:07 pm - IP Logged

It's show time and time again, though, that what's in the writing itself isn't the final word. The final word is done after due dilligence by the Lottery Commission during their verification/investigation to ensure the person who presented the ticket is indeed the person who owns the ticket. And from cases I've seen between an alleged original owner and alleged un-original owner, the Lottery Commission has typically ended up siding with the alleged original owner, despite the claim that the ticket is a bearer instrument.

As for doing what the lottery and ticket say, I'm doing the exact same thing there. It says to sign before claiming. It doesn't say to sign upon receipt.

I just don't think everyone should sign their ticket. To me personally - because of how gift taxes work and claiming via a trust/LLC - it only makes sense to sign the ticket if you are clumsly and/or forgetful (or just don't care about anonymity, claiming via those means are impossible in your state, or you aren't spreading the wealth). Just keep the thing in a safe place and have things like a photocopy and even better if it's sent to yourself in an email, so a computer crash wouldn't make you lose it.

    Candlelight777's avatar - nw saucyelf.jpg
    Indiana
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    Posted: January 2, 2014, 8:28 pm - IP Logged

    It's show time and time again, though, that what's in the writing itself isn't the final word. The final word is done after due dilligence by the Lottery Commission during their verification/investigation to ensure the person who presented the ticket is indeed the person who owns the ticket. And from cases I've seen between an alleged original owner and alleged un-original owner, the Lottery Commission has typically ended up siding with the alleged original owner, despite the claim that the ticket is a bearer instrument.

    As for doing what the lottery and ticket say, I'm doing the exact same thing there. It says to sign before claiming. It doesn't say to sign upon receipt.

    I just don't think everyone should sign their ticket. To me personally - because of how gift taxes work and claiming via a trust/LLC - it only makes sense to sign the ticket if you are clumsly and/or forgetful (or just don't care about anonymity, claiming via those means are impossible in your state, or you aren't spreading the wealth). Just keep the thing in a safe place and have things like a photocopy and even better if it's sent to yourself in an email, so a computer crash wouldn't make you lose it.

    If fraud is suspect and proven then no, it's not the final word. Lottery doesn't play sides, they follow the protocal of rules in place in the event such events occur.

    Maybe we were reading two different articles because the lottery did do an investigation and awarded the money to the woman who found the ticket abandoned in the retailer's trash. It was a judge who went against the lottery's investigation and decision on the matter (why is not clear). Certainly will be interesting to see what the new judge will make of the first judge's ruling and what information he based it on that would override the lottery's findings and decision ...which the lottery still stands by after further reading of different reports on this story.

    Oh well, hopefully they will continue to cover it and either clarify there was indeed a fraud issue that was suspect or simply a judge who practiced bad law whose ruling will be over turned by a new judge now that an appeal is being filed.
    As i have stated before, if your state does not allow you to setup a trust name on the official legal claims form for whom the proceeds will be paid and will only recognize and accept the name on the ticket regardless, then wow is all i can say and that is unforunate for the people in your stateShocked
      ttech10's avatar - blobdude
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      Posted: January 3, 2014, 4:44 am - IP Logged

      If fraud is suspect and proven then no, it's not the final word. Lottery doesn't play sides, they follow the protocal of rules in place in the event such events occur.

      That's the reason I have no worries about my tickets not being signed. If it gets stolen and my numbers come up, I'd contact the Lottery Commission right away with my info (picture of scanned picture, police report and rough description of what I look like for the store surveillance). Then I'd sit and pray that the person who took it had the guts to decide to try and cash it.

      For the last part, from what I've seen across the web is that the name signed gets released. You may be able to claim via a trust after that, or fill out a multiple winners form, but the name on the ticket is what's released. I'd still be hesitant to sign the ticket if I was told it didn't work like that, because I'd worry the person made a mistake and not only would I end up having to have my name released as a winner, but unable to setup a trust.

        Candlelight777's avatar - nw saucyelf.jpg
        Indiana
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        Posted: January 3, 2014, 9:05 am - IP Logged

        If fraud is suspect and proven then no, it's not the final word. Lottery doesn't play sides, they follow the protocal of rules in place in the event such events occur.

        That's the reason I have no worries about my tickets not being signed. If it gets stolen and my numbers come up, I'd contact the Lottery Commission right away with my info (picture of scanned picture, police report and rough description of what I look like for the store surveillance). Then I'd sit and pray that the person who took it had the guts to decide to try and cash it.

        For the last part, from what I've seen across the web is that the name signed gets released. You may be able to claim via a trust after that, or fill out a multiple winners form, but the name on the ticket is what's released. I'd still be hesitant to sign the ticket if I was told it didn't work like that, because I'd worry the person made a mistake and not only would I end up having to have my name released as a winner, but unable to setup a trust.

        Hmm, i guess i am not seeing where a criminal would bother taking a lottery ticket during a break in, unless they are willing to take the chance of incriminating themselves by presenting evidence to the lottery in an attempt to claim a prize that would link them back to the break in where a lottery ticket was among things reported stolen in a police report. Yeah criminals are not bright after all they are criminals, but i think most know not to create a trail to link them back to the scene where they committed a crime and acquired it. 


        There are a billion and one other ways something could happen to your lottery ticket though that would be hard to prove foul play was at hand. Just because it's the truth, doesn't mean the burden of proof will be enough in your case to prevail. People can claim they acquired that ticket through all kinds of various ways.There are those who truly gifted those tickets and once they realized the gifted ticket turned out to be a winner, they came back and falsely cry to the lottery they didn't give them the ticket and make the claim to the lottery saying, look at the camera i purchased it and i have a photocopy of it, yet the person they gifted the ticket to is the one in possession of the original ticket that bears no other name then their own. Lottery rules are clear on who is the rightful owner in such events.
        I think folks forget about those people, but i am sure the lottery sees it all the time and why they establish their rules the way they have. Until there is a law that says only the purchaser is the rightful owner of a ticket and such tickets can not be transferred (given to someone else) then the practice of endorsing your ticket or being in possession of a ticket stands. It's not always the purchaser of the ticket who is getting screwed, but sometimes the purchaser themselves who is falsely and wrongly attempting to screw the very people they gave the ticket to...or in some cases purchased a friend's ticket with their friend's money because maybe the friend was sick and asked them as a favor to pick up their tickets before the big drawing that evening. What if the person made a photocopy of their friends tickets and if one of them hit big went crying to the lottery saying, just look at the camera!! i purchased it and i also have a photocopy of it... they took my ticket!! But wait a minute, their friend is the person in possession of the original ticket and the ticket bears no other name then their own....the lottery rules are clear on who is the rightful owner of the ticket in such events.
        In both cases the persons could be not telling the truth and it was not a gift or purchased on their behalf, but they some how got ahold of the ticket and making the same claim falsely...see how this could go both ways? 
         
        For me, it is not wise to put much weight in photocopies and a camera showing who purchased a ticket and not consider how the lottery has setup their rules and why given the many circumstances they are faced with.
        Regarding the trust discussion, talk to your lottery officials. It would be sad to have something happen to your ticket because you didn't sign it based on the concerns you have stated, and then find out afterwards that it wasn't the case after all. 
          ttech10's avatar - blobdude
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          Posted: January 8, 2014, 12:39 am - IP Logged

           i guess i am not seeing where a criminal would bother taking a lottery ticket during a break in

          I don't think a criminal would steal one, but I think if they did, and it was signed, it would likely be destroyed to avoid any connection between them and the robbery.

          I finally had someone from the Commission get back to me via email. You can still claim via a trust if you sign the ticket, but you must add 'for ABC Trust' after that, where ABC Trust is the name of your trust. The names of those in the trust will be known by the Lottery and subject to open records, but the only one that will be released is the name on the ticket (the head of the trust).

          I likely would still have left my tickets unsigned, but from that response, I certainly will keep it that way. Most states would prefer names be released (for free publicity's sake as well as transparency) so I'm not surprised they don't do it differently.

            savagegoose's avatar - ProfilePho
            adelaide sa
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            Posted: January 8, 2014, 10:55 am - IP Logged

            Now that would solve alot of problems....registering tickets at the time of purchase. Wish state's would do something like that here in america. I guess though it would be too time consuming at checkout, but if they provided everyone with one of those cards you get like you do with grocery stores and they could just scan it and your ticket is automatically registered with your info...wow that would be cool. Course then again, maybe the lottery is counting on those lost tickets that are never found or forgotten about in the floor of your back seat...i know who does that but my husband was one of those people..only played a few times a year and never took the possibility of winning seriously.

            yeah we have  had a few systems over the decades.  1st when we used carbon copy pape, the only way to  colllcect was bring in your copy, and it had a  section when purchased to  fill out name and adress.  one copy was sent to  lotto hq and filed!  the other you kept.

             

            later a  free member card  could be aplied for, then it was $2 to buy it,.  now free again. other states its $3 a year to  subscribe to the member card.

            2014 = -1016; 2015= -1409; 2016 JAN = -106; FEB= -81; MAR= -131; APR= - 87: MAY= -91; JUN= -39; JUL=-134; AUG= -124; SEP = -123; OCT= -84  NOV=- 73 TOT= -3498

            keno historic = -2291 ; 2015= -603; 2016= JAN=-32, FEB= +12 , MAR= -86, APR = -77. MAY= -48, JUN= -29, JUL=-71; AUG = -52; SEPT= -43; OCT = +56 NOV = -33 TOT= -3297

              Candlelight777's avatar - nw saucyelf.jpg
              Indiana
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              Posted: January 8, 2014, 5:58 pm - IP Logged

               i guess i am not seeing where a criminal would bother taking a lottery ticket during a break in

              I don't think a criminal would steal one, but I think if they did, and it was signed, it would likely be destroyed to avoid any connection between them and the robbery.

              I finally had someone from the Commission get back to me via email. You can still claim via a trust if you sign the ticket, but you must add 'for ABC Trust' after that, where ABC Trust is the name of your trust. The names of those in the trust will be known by the Lottery and subject to open records, but the only one that will be released is the name on the ticket (the head of the trust).

              I likely would still have left my tickets unsigned, but from that response, I certainly will keep it that way. Most states would prefer names be released (for free publicity's sake as well as transparency) so I'm not surprised they don't do it differently.

              Glad you got some verification on the matter and how your lottery handles these thingsThumbs Up

                Candlelight777's avatar - nw saucyelf.jpg
                Indiana
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                Posted: January 8, 2014, 6:00 pm - IP Logged

                yeah we have  had a few systems over the decades.  1st when we used carbon copy pape, the only way to  colllcect was bring in your copy, and it had a  section when purchased to  fill out name and adress.  one copy was sent to  lotto hq and filed!  the other you kept.

                 

                later a  free member card  could be aplied for, then it was $2 to buy it,.  now free again. other states its $3 a year to  subscribe to the member card.

                I just wish our state lottery would offer such a system!! it would make things soo much more smootherYes Nod
                Who knows maybe one day with fingers crossedSmile
                  ttech10's avatar - blobdude
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                  Posted: January 9, 2014, 1:45 am - IP Logged

                  Glad you got some verification on the matter and how your lottery handles these thingsThumbs Up

                  It'd be nice if you said it worked here how you said your lottery told you, as many would like the ability to sign their tickets and still have their options open for claiming, but I don't think it's a major issue for myself.

                  The bigger issue is that we're the only state (I believe) that forces you to choose annuity/lump sum when you buy the ticket.

                    Candlelight777's avatar - nw saucyelf.jpg
                    Indiana
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                    Posted: January 9, 2014, 6:55 am - IP Logged

                    It's really unfortunate that there are states such as yours that forces peoples hand like that. Good thing is there are several state reps pushing for players to have the option. If it is given clearance it would also effect multi state games as well. I don't believe it's a matter of if, but when it will happen.

                    I remember a time when we had to pick annuity/lump sum at purchase as well and it never made sense. If anything it put folks at a disadvantage by forcing them to make a decision without proper consultation. I had times where i grabbed some QP's and after looking at my tickets noted the clerk put the wrong selection in. Sometimes even play slips didn't reflect correctly and i still have that happen from time to time when i play powerplay or megaplier. Glad our state no longer requires that at purchase.
                    The lottery is gonna look after the lottery first and foremost and as usual whenever something involves money and lots of it..there is always a trail of stench involved and in this case, that stench ends up being the backlash at the expense of players. Ques in "the big money" song by Rush.
                      savagegoose's avatar - ProfilePho
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                      Posted: January 9, 2014, 7:02 am - IP Logged
                      I just wish our state lottery would offer such a system!! it would make things soo much more smootherYes Nod
                      Who knows maybe one day with fingers crossedSmile

                      its good to share the info,.  liked in the 25+ years I've played lotto. almost all of that time regular and on a   ticket registration  card of some sort i think ive only had checks mailed out to me about 5 times. I know i said they would deposit to a bank, but at the start  they mailed a check out. and i haven't had any missed winnings since the bank deposit  regime.  also if you give no bank details, they send a check.  also i don't think any of the mailed checks where ever over $20.   but it goes to show i  miss check my winning tickets or lose them about once every 5 years.

                      2014 = -1016; 2015= -1409; 2016 JAN = -106; FEB= -81; MAR= -131; APR= - 87: MAY= -91; JUN= -39; JUL=-134; AUG= -124; SEP = -123; OCT= -84  NOV=- 73 TOT= -3498

                      keno historic = -2291 ; 2015= -603; 2016= JAN=-32, FEB= +12 , MAR= -86, APR = -77. MAY= -48, JUN= -29, JUL=-71; AUG = -52; SEPT= -43; OCT = +56 NOV = -33 TOT= -3297

                        Candlelight777's avatar - nw saucyelf.jpg
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                        Posted: January 9, 2014, 7:19 am - IP Logged

                        i had to laugh and think of myself when i read your post. My kids laugh when i scan my tickets since they put scanners in the store. I always check them myself but i will not throw them away until i scan them. There have been a couple times that i missed a winning ticket somehow after scanning them. I also get sloppy sometimes and shove the tickets in my purse to only find one floating around at a later time. Now i use those card holders. Just goes to show stuff happens and if it involves something unlucky, it has my name written all over it and i am a instant winner LOL

                          haymaker's avatar - Lottery-012.jpg
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                          Posted: January 9, 2014, 1:18 pm - IP Logged

                          It'd be nice if you said it worked here how you said your lottery told you, as many would like the ability to sign their tickets and still have their options open for claiming, but I don't think it's a major issue for myself.

                          The bigger issue is that we're the only state (I believe) that forces you to choose annuity/lump sum when you buy the ticket.

                          Jersey also makes you choose when you buy the tix.

                          Extraordinary Popular Delusions & the Madness of Crowds    -- Charles Mackay  LL.D.

                            mrcraft's avatar - images3lp4 zps7dbb4a10.jpg
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                            Posted: January 9, 2014, 1:35 pm - IP Logged

                            Since I can't claim via a trust or LLC anymore in California, I have no excuse not to sign the ticket right after purchase, but I never do mainly out of habit. Honestly, I don't think that'll change.

                              BigDMike's avatar - Money 20City_zpsfnsebmis.jpg

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                              Posted: January 9, 2014, 1:41 pm - IP Logged

                              I don't sign the ticket.  If the ticket is stolen, then shame on me for not protecting my ticket(s) properly as I would any other curency.  May the theif live the rest of their life with a migrain headache and bad breath.  If I lost it, then shame on me for the same, but hopefully it's a blessing for the person that might find it.  Either way signed or not... I'M not getting paid.

                              Besides, what happens in an emergency and you need someone to cash out for you?

                              Big money Jackpot... different story. I'd feel so ill watching someone on the news.