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MzDuffleBaglady

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Jan 11, 2016, 9:54 pm

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CajunWin4

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Jan 11, 2016, 9:58 pm

Unfortunately , It's not just individual employees of State Lotteries we must worry about rigging RNG drawn (Computer Draw ) games . The States them selves could be possibly rigging the games in there States games .

Everyone has a will to Win !

Very few have the will to prepare to Win !
Todd

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Chief Bottle Washer

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Jan 11, 2016, 10:10 pm

Quote: Originally posted by chrissy16 on Jan 11, 2016
Smells of a PR campaign if you ask me. Most members here are anti-RNG, he must not have seen the petitions page. RNG for the foreseeable future in Iowa. Did I miss anything?

Understood about your feelings on this, but I can tell you from my interactions with Terry he really is a straight-shooter. Believe me when I say that Terry and ALL the state lotteries definitely understand our feelings about computerized drawings.

Check the State Lottery Report Card
What grade did your lottery earn?

Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
Help eliminate computerized drawings!
cbr$

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Jan 11, 2016, 10:12 pm

Nice , discussion Todd. Glad you leave a welcome mat out so he answers some of Questions he couldn't get around to on a later date. I have to agree with one person half the fun of a live draw is really yelling out the numbers before they come out!
Todd

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Chief Bottle Washer

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Jan 11, 2016, 10:14 pm

Quote: Originally posted by cbr$ on Jan 11, 2016
Nice , discussion Todd. Glad you leave a welcome mat out so he answers some of Questions he couldn't get around to on a later date. I have to agree with one person half the fun of a live draw is really yelling out the numbers before they come out!

Ha! I do it all the time myself. That's part of the fun!

Check the State Lottery Report Card
What grade did your lottery earn?

Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
Help eliminate computerized drawings!
haymaker

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Jan 11, 2016, 10:30 pm

Quote: Originally posted by Todd on Jan 11, 2016
Understood about your feelings on this, but I can tell you from my interactions with Terry he really is a straight-shooter. Believe me when I say that Terry and ALL the state lotteries definitely understand our feelings about computerized drawings.

Yes he does sound like a straight-shooter. he also sounded like he was defending RNG the best he could.

I guess he has to do that.

I believe the only way we'll get rid of RNG is to vote our wallets and not play,

admit that would be hard to do if I lived in one of those "D" grade states.

But you know...$ talks...

Anyway thanks for being at the forefront of this RNG stuff

I'm sure many casual players know zero about it.

Extraordinary Popular Delusions & the Madness of Crowds -- Charles Mackay LL.D.
lotterybraker

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Jan 11, 2016, 11:04 pm

Quote: Originally posted by haymaker on Jan 11, 2016
Yes he does sound like a straight-shooter. he also sounded like he was defending RNG the best he could.

I guess he has to do that.

I believe the only way we'll get rid of RNG is to vote our wallets and not play,

admit that would be hard to do if I lived in one of those "D" grade states.

But you know...$ talks...

Anyway thanks for being at the forefront of this RNG stuff

I'm sure many casual players know zero about it.

Yeah I am sorry I missed it...I had planned to be here to ask a question and I missed a golden opportunity tonight...I got here in time to read all the other questions..

Looks like most were personal feelings about how bad RNG's are and security concerns...HOPEFULLY he will stop back by again ....

"Attention all Mathematicians: Check your degree at the door because when it comes to whole numbers you are the Amateur"
gavin256

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Jan 11, 2016, 11:13 pm

Thank you Mr. Rich for taking your time tonight to answer some questions. I have a question that wasn't asked. Whenever there is a breach in security in a game and an investigation does take place, and lottery employee(s) are terminated and prosecuted, is the general public notified about these things? I understand that everyone is going to be upset about spending all that money on lotto tickets when the game was rigged by tipton and the jackpot was $15 Million but, even for lower amounts being taken underhandedly. Is the public notified about these types of activities? By just you saying "it's currently under investigation and we can't comment on that" doesn't cut it for all these people playing the lottery. Basically, what you're trying to say is, "yeah things happen sometimes and were 'working' on it but give us your money anyway". The government answer.. Give people an incentive to play the lottery and give them the feeling that the game is not rigged. Also, make sure its public knowledge of what you're doing to keep the integrity of the game intact and how you do that. Sorry this got long but I don't hear too many stories of lower dollar amount lottery scandals.
JezzVim

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Jan 12, 2016, 1:20 am

People are too greedy, the system can have all the safeguards it can, but when you have greedy people and a boat load of money they can get they will spend all their waking hours on how to get their hands on that money. Every man and woman has a price. The people that write the code can put in a back door to use later, who is going to go behind that person to check for it? And can you trust the person that is double checking?

So the odds that the player has against winning is a fairytale if someone is working the code to win.

The Wolf guarding the hen house?

Life Is Wonderful If You Don't Weaken
headcrack

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Jan 12, 2016, 7:16 am

interesting info . thanks todd and mr rich for doing this... it seemed that some members took there time to express anger and put the detective light on mr rich.

todd if you speak to mr rich or maybe you know the answer. does multistate drawings use the same source (rng) for quick picks and selecting the winning number for a selected game.

there should have been more questions on the tracking stats etc..

thank you todd and mr rich..

"I am tuned in tapped in recieving in manifesting

my billion dollar mind" SDM

I have a large lottery winning and i have my money now. HC winworth

when HC winworth talk people listen...

Ice Cube "shake em up shake em up shake em up shake em." Today was a good day

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JoeCanWin

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Jan 12, 2016, 11:15 am

Quote: Originally posted by haymaker on Jan 11, 2016
Yes he does sound like a straight-shooter. he also sounded like he was defending RNG the best he could.

I guess he has to do that.

I believe the only way we'll get rid of RNG is to vote our wallets and not play,

admit that would be hard to do if I lived in one of those "D" grade states.

But you know...$ talks...

Anyway thanks for being at the forefront of this RNG stuff

I'm sure many casual players know zero about it.

Hello all LP members,

*Sigh* It is too bad and someone made an excellent point in the form of a question. Something like, Are the RNG's (computerized drawings) for the benefit of the lottery staff, or for the benefit of the players? Yes, I thought the whole idea was for player enjoyment.

It seems that Mr. Rich made that sort of clear in one answer where he claims RNG's are here to stay. The problem is that almost everyone that actually PLAYS the lottery would feel more secure seeing balls drawn like before, and I feel the same way. So, I highly suspect that the computerized drawings don't actually save money, not if they have to put all these safeguards in place. My question is: HOW can this possibly be LESS expensive given the equipment and safeguards that must be in place? I must also assume that now, even MORE safeguards must be addressed because of the Tipton case. Again, how can RNG's be less expensive than ball drawings given the facts surrounding computer security that must be addressed. With computerized drawings we have to worry about too many ways it could be compromised. With ball drawings, keep them in a locked room, make sure they weight the same, etc. It seems less expensive to use ball drawings instead of a computer that can be programmed without anyone finding out. I have no disrespect towards Mr. Rich but I still think that if Eddie Tipton wasn't dumb enough to purchase the rigged ticket himself, they never would have found out. At least until the July court proceedings show me real proof, or enough to change my mind this is how I think.

I will repeat, given the present circumstances, I fail to see how computerized number drawings are less expensive than the actual physical ball drawings shown on TV and/or a lottery Internet channel. It just no longer makes sense, to me anyway. I think computerized drawings make it easier and faster for the lottery, but not less expensive. Also, if a ball is compromised, you can hopefully see and/or discover some type of evidence. AND, with ball drawings you don't have to hire someone smarter than yourself to do deal with computers and programming RNGs, you just need to make sure the balls are the same weight and are not rigged in some other way. With some computer program containing a self-destructing aspect, you have no real evidence left in place to find and present to a jury. The lottery can speculate on how Tipton did it, but I doubt that they found the actual program he used. If they do I will be humbly proved wrong.

Please, please, please, go back to ball drawings. It is safer and easier. It is just a matter of time before a lottery computer is compromised once again, whether it be an Eddie Tipton situation, or someone on the outside hacks in by some amazing feat and no one finds out for a while, although that is not easy these days as most places closely monitor network traffic in real time.

Look at how many crimes are done by the use of computers these days? Crooks made billions $$ last year from the combination of computers and gullible (and some supposedly not so gullible) people. How much did crooks make last year from a lottery that used real ball drawings? Zero $$ possibly? Did I make my point clear? Plus, like someone else mentioned, the sheer enjoyment and excitement of SEEING the balls drawn and hoping they show your numbers cannot be replaced by RNG drawings. And, that should not be simulated with a computer/computer screen, IMO.

Remember, computers made NOTHING SAFER, they just made the transference of money and information FASTER, and they replace repetitive and dangerous work that people desire not to do, that's most of it. Do I like my computer? You bet! Do I think they should be used for lottery drawings? NO! NEVER, EVER! (Joe steps down from his soap box)
JoeCanWin

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Jan 12, 2016, 12:13 pm

One of the things I forgot to mention above is that by using computer drawings, and of course real people have to program them and monitor them and safeguard them.

Also, someone could accidentally cause a problem by running a buggy program and never know it. These things happen. People blindly/unknowingly cause problems everyday with products, and computers and their programs are no exception. Not sure if anyone will do this but a 1957 movie titled "The Invisible Boy" is a really good movie about what can happen when some person that has clearance and brains and builds and programs a massive computer, using tight security. Now what could possibly go wrong? This movie's title is somewhat misleading, as it is not all about some invisible boy. Remember, this movie is from 1957! Thirteen years before "Colossus: The Forbin Project"

"Colossus" is more tuned for adults, whereas "The Invisible Boy" is more for the entire family. In some ways I think the "Invisible Boy" is better. The whole computer setup is brilliant. I actually think that TIB is how they came up with the idea for "Colossus".

Take my advice and watch "The Invisible Boy" probably free on Youtube. (I own a DVD copy) I know I got carried away but I'm trying to make an important point about computers and programmers and security and outside or even unknown influences.

Please have a real person do the ball drawings for us lottery players. Yes, it makes a huge difference.

*(Having once again made his point, Joe steps off his soapbox and picks it up, and quietly walks away)*
headcrack

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Jan 12, 2016, 3:32 pm

Quote: Originally posted by JoeCanWin on Jan 12, 2016
One of the things I forgot to mention above is that by using computer drawings, and of course real people have to program them and monitor them and safeguard them.

Also, someone could accidentally cause a problem by running a buggy program and never know it. These things happen. People blindly/unknowingly cause problems everyday with products, and computers and their programs are no exception. Not sure if anyone will do this but a 1957 movie titled "The Invisible Boy" is a really good movie about what can happen when some person that has clearance and brains and builds and programs a massive computer, using tight security. Now what could possibly go wrong? This movie's title is somewhat misleading, as it is not all about some invisible boy. Remember, this movie is from 1957! Thirteen years before "Colossus: The Forbin Project"

"Colossus" is more tuned for adults, whereas "The Invisible Boy" is more for the entire family. In some ways I think the "Invisible Boy" is better. The whole computer setup is brilliant. I actually think that TIB is how they came up with the idea for "Colossus".

Take my advice and watch "The Invisible Boy" probably free on Youtube. (I own a DVD copy) I know I got carried away but I'm trying to make an important point about computers and programmers and security and outside or even unknown influences.

Please have a real person do the ball drawings for us lottery players. Yes, it makes a huge difference.

*(Having once again made his point, Joe steps off his soapbox and picks it up, and quietly walks away)*

hey joe. from what i have gathered its easier to use computerized drawings, because one company runs or oversees multiple states. it would take all day and alot of money to program one machine or have one machine per state... my guess maybe someone can confirm it for us..

"I am tuned in tapped in recieving in manifesting

my billion dollar mind" SDM

I have a large lottery winning and i have my money now. HC winworth

when HC winworth talk people listen...

Ice Cube "shake em up shake em up shake em up shake em." Today was a good day

Four-Five-Six--Ciello--Five-Five-Six--Headcrack!
JoeCanWin

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Jan 12, 2016, 5:03 pm

Right, I think I said that I suspected it was easier (and I'm sure more convenient) for the lotteries to use computerized drawings. I'm not sure it is cheaper though. I also don't think it is safer, but since when has public safety or public opinion gotten in the way of a big business? Which I'm kind of sure includes lotteries.

Let's look at it from another angle. Say the most important and expensive item you buy is a house, you want to make sure the transaction is secure with your bank and all the papers in order, etc. Now, if I'm buying something that may possibly end up being worth MANY, MANY TIMES what a decent house costs, I want the system that produces that piece of paper to be perfect. Think about it... And I'm supposed to trust a computer, something I cannot see, knowing full well they have been manipulated and hacked pretty much since they were invented? Sorry, No Comprende! Give me a human using a ball machine any day. I'd feel much better about buying that little piece of paper.

Just my two-cents.
mypiemaster

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Jan 12, 2016, 7:30 pm

Quote: Originally posted by JoeCanWin on Jan 12, 2016
Right, I think I said that I suspected it was easier (and I'm sure more convenient) for the lotteries to use computerized drawings. I'm not sure it is cheaper though. I also don't think it is safer, but since when has public safety or public opinion gotten in the way of a big business? Which I'm kind of sure includes lotteries.

Let's look at it from another angle. Say the most important and expensive item you buy is a house, you want to make sure the transaction is secure with your bank and all the papers in order, etc. Now, if I'm buying something that may possibly end up being worth MANY, MANY TIMES what a decent house costs, I want the system that produces that piece of paper to be perfect. Think about it... And I'm supposed to trust a computer, something I cannot see, knowing full well they have been manipulated and hacked pretty much since they were invented? Sorry, No Comprende! Give me a human using a ball machine any day. I'd feel much better about buying that little piece of paper.

Just my two-cents.

NOTHING IN LIFE IS PERFECT. RNG is not for players but for the lottery to save on operating costs and to make money. So far as they are making money, they don't care and will not tell you how often they got hacked. It's all about money.

Seek and ye shall find -Matt. 7:7 ...Ask and ye shall receive -John 16:24 ...Give and it shall be given unto you -Luke 6:38 ...Be careful what you ask for!!! -Mypiemaster 1:1

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