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Do Rng Computers Know What Numbers Not To Pick?

Topic closed. 57 replies. Last post 7 months ago by Tialuvslotto.

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Posted: April 13, 2016, 9:54 pm - IP Logged

Generally it is wrong.

However a Tipton can program numbers to show up and a Tipton could also program a block so that certain combinations DON'T show up.

In some states it can depend on whether you are a friend or a foe of a Tipton as to whether combinations show up or not.

Thats right. 

They are programmed so that certain combos dont  show. The range can be set to fall where there is less play on some numbers. PA has a 35 min delay after play shuts off to manipulate the numbers with rng.  Ive seen the improbable fall several times....such as 10 doubles drawn in a short time.   No triples for months at a time. The house always has the advantage. And when they dont...they can re coup their money immediiately -especially with ball draws.

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    Posted: April 13, 2016, 10:01 pm - IP Logged

    The problem is not with the RNG itself - that is (or should be) entirely random.  Depending on the setup, there are ways to tell either it or the system taking its bits and alter them as Iowa proved.  People are the broken link and always will be when it comes to any game of chance but MUCH more so with RNG because it is behind closed doors.  The ONLY way I would ever waste money on an RNG game is if it is a random hardware ONLY machine built by IGT (with chips and no alterable software on the chips) and if it ran continuously, providing the bits produced as a downloadable file, every day.  Then anyone could use some very simple entropy programs to check the bits.  Also, it would need to have an interface with ONE control for the operator...a button on top which they hit at the time of the drawing.  It shows (3,4,5,or how many ever) numbers on an LCD or LED digits.  It would be built like a tank and audited every day by a third party to make sure not only that the entropy is correct but also that the box itself had not been tampered with. It would have an external (output only) USB stick that gets replaced every day with the days bits on it that is then sneaker-netted to their website for download.  If they can do all of that then I will play an RNG game...otherwise ball games only.

    One more thing...it would all need to be televised live on a youtube stream.  From the pushing of the button to the transfer of the usb stick to the website.  Even that is not perfect though because if someone, somehow tampered with the RNG, they could put a program on the website uploading computer that just uploads a different set of bits while showing that it is uploading the usb bits.  Guess I talked myself out of RNG games forever.

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      Posted: April 13, 2016, 11:38 pm - IP Logged

      OK I got an answer to my question. 

      Two days ago I emailed the WI lottery and today got a reply.

      My question:  Since the RNG computers are offline (to prevent hacking) how are the numbers transferred from the "isolated" RNG computer to the online mainframe which posts the winning numbers and determines how many winners there are?  Are they entered manually onto another computer?

      Their reply:  Yes, the numbers are manually entered to another computer then double checked by an independent auditor.

      So I guess there's no way for the computer program to know what numbers not to pick.  Thanks for all the input to my question anyway folks.

      "the numbers are manually entered to another computer"

      Really? I would have bet $50 it was some kind of magic.

        SilverLion's avatar - 8ball

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        Posted: April 14, 2016, 2:04 am - IP Logged

        you're asking a question that only the "house" knows the answers to. If you believe your readings of the trending on numbers are what you think they are, then don't play that game. It's a money maker system for the house.

        Maybe Corn Toss can elucidate?

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          JACKPOT HUNTER

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          Posted: April 14, 2016, 8:00 am - IP Logged

          If it is programmed by people, it can surely be rigged by people.

          Seek and ye shall find -Matt. 7:7 ...Ask and ye shall receive -John 16:24 ...Give and it shall be given unto you -Luke 6:38 ...Be careful what you ask for!!! -Mypiemaster 1:1

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            Posted: April 14, 2016, 5:42 pm - IP Logged

            Maybe Corn Toss can elucidate?

            By "house" they mean a state lottery or MUSL.

              SilverLion's avatar - 8ball

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              Posted: April 14, 2016, 5:48 pm - IP Logged

              By "house" they mean a state lottery or MUSL.

              Stack, are you drunk?  Every time Corn Toss mentions house, he is speaking VEGAS.  VEGAS has no state lottery or MUSL.

              And I think "HOUSE" is more affliated with Mafiaso type connections.  But there may be a varying degree of "house" when you, for example compare Robert Deniro to

              Larry Fishburne. 

              BTW, on a tangent,

              Did I mention I met him in D.C.?

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                Posted: April 14, 2016, 6:09 pm - IP Logged

                Stack, are you drunk?  Every time Corn Toss mentions house, he is speaking VEGAS.  VEGAS has no state lottery or MUSL.

                And I think "HOUSE" is more affliated with Mafiaso type connections.  But there may be a varying degree of "house" when you, for example compare Robert Deniro to

                Larry Fishburne. 

                BTW, on a tangent,

                Did I mention I met him in D.C.?

                p4wanbi said:

                "you're asking a question that only the "house" knows the answers to. If you believe your readings of the trending on numbers are what you think they are, then don't play that game. It's a money maker system for the house."

                How does that translate into "casino/house" or answers the question "Do Rng Computers Know What Numbers Not To Pick?"

                There are Vegas and other area casinos with RNG Blackjack, Craps, Roulette and other games, but Green Bay is obviously asking about state lottery RNGs.

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                  Posted: April 14, 2016, 6:19 pm - IP Logged

                  Stack, are you drunk?  Every time Corn Toss mentions house, he is speaking VEGAS.  VEGAS has no state lottery or MUSL.

                  And I think "HOUSE" is more affliated with Mafiaso type connections.  But there may be a varying degree of "house" when you, for example compare Robert Deniro to

                  Larry Fishburne. 

                  BTW, on a tangent,

                  Did I mention I met him in D.C.?

                  I thought there was no connection between the RNGs that draw the numbers and the Computers connected to the terminals, but according to this article there is.

                  The commission received a presentation on cyber security Thursday from Jim Edman, a top official in the state Bureau of Information and Telecommunications. Why would the South Dakota Lottery need "cyber security" if their RNG is not connected to a network?

                    SilverLion's avatar - 8ball

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                    Posted: April 14, 2016, 7:08 pm - IP Logged

                    I thought there was no connection between the RNGs that draw the numbers and the Computers connected to the terminals, but according to this article there is.

                    The commission received a presentation on cyber security Thursday from Jim Edman, a top official in the state Bureau of Information and Telecommunications. Why would the South Dakota Lottery need "cyber security" if their RNG is not connected to a network?

                    Stack are you still drunk?  I see you signed off.  So you probably finally passed out. 

                    I clicked on the link.  I thought you were going to post a credible article.

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                      Posted: April 15, 2016, 12:52 am - IP Logged

                      Stack are you still drunk?  I see you signed off.  So you probably finally passed out. 

                      I clicked on the link.  I thought you were going to post a credible article.

                      "I clicked on the link. "

                      The quote from the article and the title is enough unless you can't understand what "The commission received a presentation on cyber security Thursday from Jim Edman" means speaking of being inebriated. Why would the Lottery commission need a cyber security presentation when that lottery only has one RNG drawn game?

                      Is the "house" p4wanbi was talking about still confusing you too?

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                        Posted: April 15, 2016, 11:19 am - IP Logged

                        There are two things that should be clear. One is that when speaking about any form of gambling "the house" refers to the entity that runs the game(s) and has the advantage due to the odds being in favor of the house.

                        The other is that "cyber security" is a broad term that refers to all aspects of security. Even if it was specific to networks or the internet in particular, I'm pretty sure the South Dakota lottery has networked computers in addition to their RNG machines.Perhaps you'll recall the recent incident with the CT lottery having unexpectedly large payouts because they had a system that let  retailers check to see if a ticket was a winner before it was actually sold.

                        Maybe it's just me, but I thought it was also obvious from the article about the South Dakota lottery that the guy referenced is pretty clueless.

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                          Posted: April 15, 2016, 11:27 am - IP Logged

                          You are correct! THEY say it's not connected yet they are able to tell you how many winners there are. It's a joke. Since RNG came about profits are way up and overall winners are down. Goal is to keep winners under 100 if not 200 per drawings.

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                            Posted: April 15, 2016, 11:37 am - IP Logged

                            Nailed it! Here in Az since switching profits are up and they have ensured that certain numbers will not be drawn for yrs. After complaints piled up 666 came out for only the second time since AZ started a lottery. When the system finds to many winners for a given number the release of the drawings are delayed and a new number is drawn period. Because no one is allowed to witness the drawings no one can verified if this is the case. Also Law makers are drawing up bills so a winner doesn't  not have to reveal themselves to the public. This looks like a good ideal but the hidden secret is they who introduced the bill are in on the fix. They ensure that on certain days they win period. I've been looking into this for years and so far I believe this to be true. If the machine is not connected how do they know how many winners there were and where the ticket was played?

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                              Posted: April 15, 2016, 1:33 pm - IP Logged

                              Nailed it! Here in Az since switching profits are up and they have ensured that certain numbers will not be drawn for yrs. After complaints piled up 666 came out for only the second time since AZ started a lottery. When the system finds to many winners for a given number the release of the drawings are delayed and a new number is drawn period. Because no one is allowed to witness the drawings no one can verified if this is the case. Also Law makers are drawing up bills so a winner doesn't  not have to reveal themselves to the public. This looks like a good ideal but the hidden secret is they who introduced the bill are in on the fix. They ensure that on certain days they win period. I've been looking into this for years and so far I believe this to be true. If the machine is not connected how do they know how many winners there were and where the ticket was played?

                              Lotteries allowing winners to be anonymous may be ok for ball drawings, but anonymity combined with RNG drawings makes fraud so easy to hide.

                              And it's not just jackpot games at risk, but also regular Pick 3, 4, etc games too. If anything, the Pick games may be easier to exploit, though the reward far less. An insider could say select a Pick-4 number once a month or so that would be a guaranteed winner and play it heavily that day (or maybe for a few days before to make the winning wager seem more legit)...

                              Would a lottery notice such a discrepancy? Not necessarily, if the Pick-4 winning number was one that is often heavily wagered. It's not just quads that get lots of play, other combos, such as 1313 do too. An extra few hundred thousand payout on such a draw with an already large payout likely wouldn't bring any extra scrutiny...

                              A smart insider would ensure their fraudulent winnings didn't shift the overall payout too far over 50% over the course of the year. For example, if total wagers over a year is $300 million and expected payout is $150 million, but the actual payout is $152 million due to fraudulent insider taking $2 million, it's doubtful the lottery would even blink an eye, since that's a less than a 1% variance. Also, 50% house take isn't guaranteed anyways due to the nature of statistics making such a fraud even more difficult to detect unless the insider is extra greedy; how many eventually get caught.

                              As for lotteries touting their RNG machines not being networked, that's only slightly reassuring. Most heavily played numbers are already well known. If the RNG chooses say 1234, it easy to see that's go be a high payout. No special analysis needed. Thus, a lottery can perform "extra" drawing test(s) to get a less wagered number / combo to come up. Conversely, such as you allude to, a lottery could do the opposite and allow a highly wagered number to come up every so often to keep players interested. All in all, connection or not, RNG draws can be easily manipulated by the lottery to boost profits.

                              Personally, I trust casino RNG games (slots, video poker, etc) in big name physical casinos in Atlantic City and Las Vegas far more than I do any lottery RNG games. There's seemingly little oversight of lottery RNGs. Who tests them, who certifies them, etc. Often it's the lottery itself, if anyone at all.

                              In light of recent publicized frauds, I'm increasingly leery of lottery winner anonymity legislation. While it's unfortunate the situations some big jackpot winners find themselves in when their names are published, not revealing winner names makes fraud too easy to hide; less public trust in the games.