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Tenn. lawmakers want to force lottery to drop computer draws

Topic closed. 39 replies. Last post 9 years ago by tnwatchdogs.

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Morrison, IL
United States
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Posted: March 30, 2008, 7:59 pm - IP Logged

There is an upside to this - this may put an end to computerized drawings once and for all!!

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    Kentucky
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    February 14, 2006
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    Posted: March 30, 2008, 8:09 pm - IP Logged

    I don't know about other places, but in Michigan when they had the ball drawings, they did them between the 7 and 7:30 shows (Wheel of Fortune and Jeopardy) and Jeopardy started up right after the drawing, so no time for commercials. Besides, the commercials would be for the benefit of the stations, not the lottery. The lottery has to pay for that minute or so of airtime because it's time that would otherwise be set aside for commercials. I still don't see how it would cost $5 million to have a little 30 second - 1 minute drawing. There has to be a way to cheaply produce something like that. You shouldn't really even need a host, so to speak. Just show the numbers being drawn and have a voice stating what they are. Voices are a lot cheaper than regular hosts. Heck, maybe somebody from the lottery office could provide the voice as part of his or her job without the lottery having to pay a dime more. Just a thought.

    Wheel and Jeopardy are on the Cleveland station at the same time too. If the 7:29 live drawing is advertising, it's the only commercial that people regularly change channels to watch when it is aired. The local TV stations probably had to bid for the right to air the live drawings and the lottery pays the production cost.

    "I still don't see how it would cost $5 million to have a little 30 second - 1 minute drawing."

    If that is the annual cost, the daily cost would be about $13,500 at 7 drawings a week.

      four4me's avatar - gate1
      MD
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      Posted: March 31, 2008, 2:12 am - IP Logged

      Any code used for lottery drawings, voting, or anything else that requires transparency and public trust should be readily available to anyone who wants to examine it.

       

      Exactly,so when can we be invited to see how this thing works everyday?

      Some time ago the Tennessee lottery had a short video about the computerized drawings it showed the whole process from beginning to end.

      Big John says. You don't hit the number. The number hits you!!!!

                     I'm not Big John, I'm Four4me, Big John's a friend.
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        NY
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        Posted: March 31, 2008, 3:27 am - IP Logged

        He's specifically referring to being allowed to see the code that's responsible for the drawings. Using a computer program to draw the numbers without letting the public see the code is analgous to doing ball drawings where the only part visible to anyone but the manufacturer of the machine is the rack the selected balls end up in after popping out of the mixing chamber. Every once in a while one of the balls doesn't make it into the mixing chamber for one reason or another, but the problem (if not the reason for the problem) can be seen. If there's a minor bug in the software that results in a non-random result occurring, even if only on very rare occasions, it could be impossible to be sure from the results.

        Since lotteries are expected to produce results that are very unlikely, statistical analysis isn't necessarily a good way to determine if there is a problem. A problem that prevents repeat numbers in P3 or P4  will be suggested early, and become increasingy likely in a bit more time. The actual results in TN, while very unlikely, are certainly possible and therefore don't offer absolute proof that there was a problem.

        Why a state lottery would buy software for drawings and not require that the source code be made available is completely beyond me.

          JustFrozen's avatar - scenery water_mountains.jpg
          OC, CALI
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          Posted: March 31, 2008, 1:35 pm - IP Logged

          How about so people can't use the code to predict the numbers? In the computer world there's basically no such thing as random numbers. If the source code were available, people would be able to reconstruct the number generator and see what the next result would be. Not only that, but the company that made the software would basically be giving the blue prints for their product away to the world!

            four4me's avatar - gate1
            MD
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            Posted: March 31, 2008, 2:00 pm - IP Logged

            How about so people can't use the code to predict the numbers? In the computer world there's basically no such thing as random numbers. If the source code were available, people would be able to reconstruct the number generator and see what the next result would be. Not only that, but the company that made the software would basically be giving the blue prints for their product away to the world!

            Right you are the source code is proprietary information.

              KyMystikal's avatar - 1457224010054
              Florence, Alabama
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              Posted: March 31, 2008, 3:09 pm - IP Logged

              Tennessee was putting out big bucks for live drawings because they had several TV stations televising the drawings at the same time. I think it was like 5 stations. No wonder the bill was high.

              I still say Tennessee lottery only needs one station to host the drawing and the others can show the results on their screens in a little box like other state lottery's do.

              I would like to know how much money other states are paying to show they draws. I think the best thing TN could have done to cut the cost was just air the drawing  on their website, that way they don't have to pay any tv time. The get the numbers broadcasted for free during the news so if anyone wanted to see the draw they could watch it online. I don't even know why I mentioned this because TN is going to do whatever the %$#@ they want to do. I'm getting tired of TN lottery and I'm not going to post any more predictions or track TN any more. The only game I'm going to play is Powerball in TN. If KY didn't have state taxes I would play Powerball there.

              I love doubles and remember, it's just a game!!!!!!

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                NY
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                Posted: April 1, 2008, 1:27 am - IP Logged

                How about so people can't use the code to predict the numbers? In the computer world there's basically no such thing as random numbers. If the source code were available, people would be able to reconstruct the number generator and see what the next result would be. Not only that, but the company that made the software would basically be giving the blue prints for their product away to the world!

                Do you think the lotteries just go down to Best Buy and pick up a copy of "RNG for Lotto" and then leave it running (with all default settings unchanged), only drawing a set of numbers when they need one for a real drawing? If it's good RNG program, the only way to predict the numbers would be to exactly replicate all of the conditions required for the generation of the drawing. Each drawing will be a unique event using a new seed, and there won't be any "next" result to predict. That the numbers might not truly be random isn't important. What matters is that they are unpredictable.  Having the source code won't allow you to predict the numbers any more than having a copy of the program. What can be done with the source code is checking for bugs, unexpected results, or deliberate but unsanctioned actions.

                As far as "giving the blue prints for their product away to the world" that's exactly what companies do when they get a patent. Not making plans or source code available makes it slightly less convenient to duplicate a given product or program, but does nothing to provide the legal protection of a patent or copyright. If a program is unique enough that revealing the source code is a real security issue it will be easy enough for the company to identify programs that violate their patents or copyrights. If it's easy to do the same thing without violating the patents or copyrights, then there's no risk in releasing the source code. Either way, in the case of a work for hire, the person contracting for the work owns the rights, assuming they want them. A company certainly doesn't have to agree to produce a program if they have to make the source code available (or the find any other terms unacceptable), but nobody has to buy a product if they don't get everything they want. If the government wants a program that includes the source code they shouldn't have any trouble finding a company who will agree to the requirements.

                  psykomo's avatar - animal shark.jpg

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                  Posted: April 2, 2008, 5:03 pm - IP Logged

                  There is an upside to this - this may put an end to computerized drawings once and for all!!

                  IT would-DA>>>could-DA>>>should-DA>>>...............BUT,.....?????????

                  WILL the people CALL-E-mail-TALK to there state officials,.....?????????

                  OTHERWISE<<<<<<<<<<<<IT will just blow-by & B business/USUAL!!!

                  IF the people in TN. donot SPEACK-OUT>>>>>>>>>PukeBash

                  LOL

                  PSYKOMO

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                    ooltewah
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                    Posted: April 20, 2008, 11:15 pm - IP Logged

                    I am new to lotterypost and I thought I was the only person waisting my time with the TN lottery. they finally let 361 fall. You have a better chance at going with a quick pick. I save every ticket that I play with TN lottery because I want to be fully reimbursed.

                    TNWATCHDOGS