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Powerball multi-state lottery to raise prices, jackpots

Topic closed. 191 replies. Last post 10 years ago by rdgrnr.

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KY Floyd's avatar - sunflowers avatar.jpg
NY
United States
Member #23834
October 16, 2005
4558 Posts
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could not agree more, not a reg. pb player, but your reasoning is the same as how jersey came to have the highest state tax on winnings. @10.8%

not sure when this happened, boney526,maddog10,todd,anyone help me out on this one,but i'm sure the legislature passed it when most were asleep.

and the it was suppresed by the media, i did't know until i looked for it.

It was done in mid-2009, but applied retroactively to January 1st.  The bill came a few months after a group of NJ players won a MM jackpot of about $200 million (annuity value), and many of them believe that was the reason for the change in the law. News articles quoted a state official as saying it would generate about $8 million per year, but figuring the group collected a cash prize of at least $100 million the state would have reaped a windfall of about $11 million just from that one drawing. 

I haven't seen an update, but at least one winner filed a suit against the state, arguing that changing the rules after the fact is a breach of contract. Sensible people balance risk and reward, so sensible lottery players would judge the risk they're taking by buying a ticket with such steep odds against the prize they'll actually net, not an advertised amount that's inflated by more than 100%. To induce players to risk their money and buy tickets the state claimed they would pay the jackpot  free of state income tax. After the players fulfilled their part of the contract by buying tickets the state reduced the net prize by about 10% by taxing it.

    sirbrad's avatar - Lottery-062.jpg
    PA
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    October 6, 2005
    2229 Posts
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    I bet even if the jackpot gets to $500 million that there will be 3 winners, 2 we never hear from or never "cashed in their ticket". I am sure the Lottery headquarters will have those stashed away to save about $332 million. Skeptical

      haymaker's avatar - Lottery-012.jpg
      Egg Harbor twp.south Jersey shore
      United States
      Member #112963
      June 29, 2011
      4156 Posts
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      It was done in mid-2009, but applied retroactively to January 1st.  The bill came a few months after a group of NJ players won a MM jackpot of about $200 million (annuity value), and many of them believe that was the reason for the change in the law. News articles quoted a state official as saying it would generate about $8 million per year, but figuring the group collected a cash prize of at least $100 million the state would have reaped a windfall of about $11 million just from that one drawing. 

      I haven't seen an update, but at least one winner filed a suit against the state, arguing that changing the rules after the fact is a breach of contract. Sensible people balance risk and reward, so sensible lottery players would judge the risk they're taking by buying a ticket with such steep odds against the prize they'll actually net, not an advertised amount that's inflated by more than 100%. To induce players to risk their money and buy tickets the state claimed they would pay the jackpot  free of state income tax. After the players fulfilled their part of the contract by buying tickets the state reduced the net prize by about 10% by taxing it.

      thanks for that info,forgot about that retro.thing,

      jersey is ex. about figureing how to reach into our pockets.

      oughta be charged w/ fraud or at least pickpocketing.

      Extraordinary Popular Delusions & the Madness of Crowds    -- Charles Mackay  LL.D.

        RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
        100
        mid-Ohio
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        Actually, the prize would have to go to $10 Billion before I even think about spending $2.00 on a ticket.

        Let the phony cronies play and win amongst themselves; their slowly becoming the only ones that can play anyway.

        Unless you match 5+0 or win the JP, a $1 MM ticket is the better deal

                 $2 PB ticket  $1 MM ticket
          5/5+B    JP            JP
          5/5+0   $1,000,000    $250,000 
          4/5+B   $10,000      $10,000
          4/5+0   $100          $150
          3/5+B   $100          $150
          3/5+0   $7            $7
          2/5+B   $7            $10
          1/5+B   $4             $3
          0/5+B   $4            $2

         * you don't need to buy every combination, just the winning ones * 

        Thumbs Up       

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          Member #21
          December 7, 2001
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          Unless you match 5+0 or win the JP, a $1 MM ticket is the better deal

                   $2 PB ticket  $1 MM ticket
            5/5+B    JP            JP
            5/5+0   $1,000,000    $250,000 
            4/5+B   $10,000      $10,000
            4/5+0   $100          $150
            3/5+B   $100          $150
            3/5+0   $7            $7
            2/5+B   $7            $10
            1/5+B   $4             $3
            0/5+B   $4            $2

          you're right, i'll still be playing Mega or untill that goes up too.

          .

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            Member #24502
            October 23, 2005
            159 Posts
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            When gambling is an addiction, that thought will never pop into their head.  They have to gamble.  The gambling matters more than winning or losing.  If they won, they wouldn't stop gambling.  If they lose, they'll keep gambling.  But I liked your imagery.  That's a very frightening thought.

            I'm not sure of the cheerleaders here for PowerBall's new game are addicts or paid yes-men/astroturfers. 

            When I saw the new prize tiers, I said to myself, 'ahh, they HotLotto'd it'.   HotLotto's Sizzler is a static 3x.  It also takes forever to build up, and the winners come from the same 3 or 4 states every time.  PowerBall put on the appearance of offering more prize money by hoping that people would only look at 'ooh! $1million for $2!', but I look at it from who the small winners are, and PowerBall just completely suckerpunched lower level prize winners.  The least they could do was make getting four balls, or three balls and the powerball $500........ nope.  And the prize for just the powerball is just about the equivalent of 'free ticket' in scratch offs.

            In my mind, in a bad economy, only the already rich, the connected and the addicts are going to continue to put down money for a powerball ticket...... especially when MegaMillions is still $1 a dream.  If people want to pay more to lose more often, that's fine.  But it just seems 'smarter', if one is a gambler, to go for the local games, create systems for those, with what should be better odds, and win slowly but steadily over what PowerBall is doing.

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              October 23, 2005
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              If it's not too personal, how much do you spend on the lottery in a given week? Or are you one of those that waits for the jackpot to reach a certain level?

               

              A lot of the WHINERS on here from what I can tell spend a dollar a week when they treat themselves to the weekly Dr. Pepper and the others buy a quick pick when the credit card isn't registering at the pump and they're forced to go inside to the cashier

              I don't understand your contempt towards Jade, rad242.   It's supposed to be a GOOD thing to only spend a dollar a week to treat one's self to a dream.   It's an impulse buy, but it's a controlled impulse buy.  Much better than the sad cases of people spending half their paycheck (or disability, or social security) on scratch-offs and drawings hoping that this time they'll hit it big and won't have to worry about anything ever again.

              To succeed, the lottery needs those 'whiners' (as you call them) to believe they have a chance, so that they'll put down that dollar or two a week.  Those dollars add up.  Having casual player say 'screw this!' doesn't help the lottery unless radical changes are made to how the game is marketed, how the game is set up, and how the game pays out.  It takes more than addicts and bored rich folks with a system to make lotteries succeed.

              But am I misunderstanding your contempt towards Jade?  Where do you fall, yourself, on the 'how much do you spend' graph?

              We're in a bad economic situation, in spite of the growing light at the end of the tunnel.  There is no way I would spend a mandatory $2 on Powerball for the crap prizes they're offering.  There is no way I'm going to spend $3, when the prizes offered under the old system had the chance to pay out much more at lower levels for $1 less.  This $2 game with $3 for added powerplay is strictly for people with a lot more disposable income than I have right now.

              If you're one of those people with a lot of disposable income -- be it earned through a straight job, investment (gambling is not an investment), disability or social security, or prior gambling wins -- bully for you.  But I believe it's wrong to call out folks who don't have as much disposable income as you, for not dropping as much money as you on a dream.  Does this make sense?  Or do you disagree?


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                May 25, 2011
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                I don't understand your contempt towards Jade, rad242.   It's supposed to be a GOOD thing to only spend a dollar a week to treat one's self to a dream.   It's an impulse buy, but it's a controlled impulse buy.  Much better than the sad cases of people spending half their paycheck (or disability, or social security) on scratch-offs and drawings hoping that this time they'll hit it big and won't have to worry about anything ever again.

                To succeed, the lottery needs those 'whiners' (as you call them) to believe they have a chance, so that they'll put down that dollar or two a week.  Those dollars add up.  Having casual player say 'screw this!' doesn't help the lottery unless radical changes are made to how the game is marketed, how the game is set up, and how the game pays out.  It takes more than addicts and bored rich folks with a system to make lotteries succeed.

                But am I misunderstanding your contempt towards Jade?  Where do you fall, yourself, on the 'how much do you spend' graph?

                We're in a bad economic situation, in spite of the growing light at the end of the tunnel.  There is no way I would spend a mandatory $2 on Powerball for the crap prizes they're offering.  There is no way I'm going to spend $3, when the prizes offered under the old system had the chance to pay out much more at lower levels for $1 less.  This $2 game with $3 for added powerplay is strictly for people with a lot more disposable income than I have right now.

                If you're one of those people with a lot of disposable income -- be it earned through a straight job, investment (gambling is not an investment), disability or social security, or prior gambling wins -- bully for you.  But I believe it's wrong to call out folks who don't have as much disposable income as you, for not dropping as much money as you on a dream.  Does this make sense?  Or do you disagree?

                Hats off to you Iesha, we lottery players are as different as the demographic's of this country. Be it a dollar or five hundred dollars/week; We all have our hopes & dreams that take varying venues depending on your soci-economic beliefs. Judge not, less thee be judged. 

                I Agree!

                  rdgrnr's avatar - nw barkeep.jpg
                  100
                  Grand High Exalted Mystic Ruler
                  The Hall Of The Mountain Kings Tennessee
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                  The jackpot will increase by at least $10 million every drawing there is no grand prize winner, whereas under the current structure there is no minimum increase.

                  The above statement from the story is incorrect. Under the current structure, the jackpot increases a minimum $5 million per draw.

                  Also, under the current structure, the only way to gain a realistic payout is via group play. The new structure makes it even more difficult to gain a realistic payout as an individual player.

                  Good luck.

                  "...the only way to gain a realistic payout is via group play."

                   

                  Actually, that's not true.

                  When compared with individual wins, group wins are a rarity.

                  Statistically, you're much better off playing as an individual.

                  And an added bonus is you don't have to split with anybody or get sued by idiots who claim they were in your group.

                  Then on top of that you don't have to deal with unscrupulous people who may abscond with your money or deny your winnings.

                  Not worth it.

                  But whatever you decide, Good Luck!


                    Canada
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                    December 27, 2008
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                    "...the only way to gain a realistic payout is via group play."

                     

                    Actually, that's not true.

                    When compared with individual wins, group wins are a rarity.

                    Statistically, you're much better off playing as an individual.

                    And an added bonus is you don't have to split with anybody or get sued by idiots who claim they were in your group.

                    Then on top of that you don't have to deal with unscrupulous people who may abscond with your money or deny your winnings.

                    Not worth it.

                    But whatever you decide, Good Luck!

                    I do not think you studied mathematics in school, so I will not bother trying to explain it to you.

                      rdgrnr's avatar - nw barkeep.jpg
                      100
                      Grand High Exalted Mystic Ruler
                      The Hall Of The Mountain Kings Tennessee
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                      I do not think you studied mathematics in school, so I will not bother trying to explain it to you.

                      Well alrighty then!

                        KY Floyd's avatar - sunflowers avatar.jpg
                        NY
                        United States
                        Member #23834
                        October 16, 2005
                        4558 Posts
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                        "...the only way to gain a realistic payout is via group play."

                         

                        Actually, that's not true.

                        When compared with individual wins, group wins are a rarity.

                        Statistically, you're much better off playing as an individual.

                        And an added bonus is you don't have to split with anybody or get sued by idiots who claim they were in your group.

                        Then on top of that you don't have to deal with unscrupulous people who may abscond with your money or deny your winnings.

                        Not worth it.

                        But whatever you decide, Good Luck!

                        It hardly takes a rocket scientist to figure out that if you're in a group of 5 and everybody plays $1 you're 5 times as likely to win a jackpot as you are playing $1 all by yourself. To anyone who actually pays attention the statistics show that more than 2/3 of the people who claimed a powerball jackpot in 2011 did so as a result of playing in a group. Some years it's over 90%. As a simple matter of probability playing in a pool very clearly makes you more likely to win.

                          Coin Toss's avatar - shape barbed.jpg
                          100
                          Zeta Reticuli Star System
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                          It hardly takes a rocket scientist to figure out that if you're in a group of 5 and everybody plays $1 you're 5 times as likely to win a jackpot as you are playing $1 all by yourself. To anyone who actually pays attention the statistics show that more than 2/3 of the people who claimed a powerball jackpot in 2011 did so as a result of playing in a group. Some years it's over 90%. As a simple matter of probability playing in a pool very clearly makes you more likely to win.

                          Well, rocket scientist, from the Powerball website, there were twelve 2011 Jackpot Winners. The only group is the Flatbush Avenue Dodgers. The Carvajal Family Group is more likely a family than a pool. Hardly 2/3 of the 2011 winners, KY Floyd.

                          You also didn't mention that those in a pool might win and not collect for a good while because a former member of the pool thinks they have a share coming, and depending on the size of the pool an individual's share might not really be like hitting a jackpot.

                          I think I'm not the only one here wondering just whose 2011 Powerball statisitics you are paying attention to.

                          Powerball Winners 
                             
                            2011 Winners
                          Steven Lloyd
                          Pennsylvania
                          November 19, 2011Cash$59,900,000.00 annuity
                          $37,622,580.20 cash
                          Putnam Ave. Family Trust
                          Connecticut
                          November 2, 2011Cash$254,200,000.00 annuity
                          $151,664,457.51 cash
                          Kathy Scruggs
                          Georgia
                          September 14, 2011Cash$25,000,000.00 annuity
                          $15,124,016.94 cash
                          Name Withheld
                          Maryland
                          September 7, 2011Cash$108,800,000.00 annuity
                          $65,294,048.66 cash
                          Thomas Morris
                          Minnesota
                          August 10, 2011Cash$228,900,000.00 annuity
                          $123,602,685.09 cash
                          Pending
                          Georgia
                          June 29, 2011Pending$77,100,000.00 annuity
                          $40,827,464.52 cash
                          Jimmy Freeman
                          Massachusetts
                          June 8, 2011Cash$25,600,000.00 annuity
                          $13,493,470.86 cash
                          1937 Flatbush Avenue Dodgers LLC
                          New York
                          June 1, 2011Cash$201,900,000.00 annuity
                          $106,159,636.69 cash
                          Bill Swanson
                          Indiana
                          April 23, 2011Cash$74,000,000.00 annuity
                          $37,728,064.69 cash
                          Michael Reardon & Darin Fox
                          Indiana
                          April 6, 2011Cash$221,700,000.00 annuity
                          $111,737,725.76 cash
                          Carvajal Family Group
                          Florida
                          February 26, 2011Cash$182,100,000.00 annuity
                          $91,187,716.61 cash
                          Stephen Kirwin
                          New York
                          January 22, 2011Cash$122,100,000.00 annuity
                          $61,224,679.58 cash
                           
                            

                          http://www.powerball.com/powerball/pb_stories.asp

                          Those who run the lotteries love it when players look for consistency in something that's designed not to have any. So many systems, so many theories, so few jackpot winners. 

                          Lep

                          There is one and only one 'proven' system, and that is to book the action. No matter the game, let the players pick their own losers.

                            rdgrnr's avatar - nw barkeep.jpg
                            100
                            Grand High Exalted Mystic Ruler
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                            It hardly takes a rocket scientist to figure out that if you're in a group of 5 and everybody plays $1 you're 5 times as likely to win a jackpot as you are playing $1 all by yourself. To anyone who actually pays attention the statistics show that more than 2/3 of the people who claimed a powerball jackpot in 2011 did so as a result of playing in a group. Some years it's over 90%. As a simple matter of probability playing in a pool very clearly makes you more likely to win.

                            It hardly takes a rocket scientist to see a malcontented ne'er-do-well who's always mad at the world for his own failures either.

                            You're an idiot, K-Y Jelly Floyd.

                            I think that jelly is traveling from your rear end up to your brain, Floydie. Either that or you just want to lie about this the same way you lied about me saying I used the word "libtard" a million times when you know I've never once used that word. Never in my life. You're a liar.

                            And if you wanna lie and say that groups win jackpots more often than individuals then just go on saying it, nobody cares.

                            But it's just another one of your lies because you're a typical lying lib and when something doesn't fit your agenda you lie about it.

                            And you know it.

                             

                             

                            PS. Why don't you stop being such a typical liberal cheapskate and help support this site by buying a membership for the first time in your life, Scrooge? Or do you want everybody else here to give you a free ride like you expect from the government? Miserly tightwad skinflint.


                              Canada
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                              It hardly takes a rocket scientist to see a malcontented ne'er-do-well who's always mad at the world for his own failures either.

                              You're an idiot, K-Y Jelly Floyd.

                              I think that jelly is traveling from your rear end up to your brain, Floydie. Either that or you just want to lie about this the same way you lied about me saying I used the word "libtard" a million times when you know I've never once used that word. Never in my life. You're a liar.

                              And if you wanna lie and say that groups win jackpots more often than individuals then just go on saying it, nobody cares.

                              But it's just another one of your lies because you're a typical lying lib and when something doesn't fit your agenda you lie about it.

                              And you know it.

                               

                               

                              PS. Why don't you stop being such a typical liberal cheapskate and help support this site by buying a membership for the first time in your life, Scrooge? Or do you want everybody else here to give you a free ride like you expect from the government? Miserly tightwad skinflint.

                              Does buying a membership allow one to ignore the rules of the site?

                                 
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