Yipe.

" drawings will continue to move forward with the utmost integrity."

___________________________________

something to meditate about :"Pick 3 programming code that prevented the numbers eight and nine from being drawn in certain positions"  so i get from this is that there is definetly a mathematical algorythm behind this.absolutly nothing is random in the computer drawings  !maybe code is something like- IF 8 is drawn 5 times with 6 then draw 7 5 times with 5 and so on...

They only looked into it when lottery players complained... So how come they couldn't tell something was wrong?

Worse yet, in how many other states is the same thing happening, because the players have not complained?

Worse still, in how many states has this happened and the players complained, but the lottery officials didn't or wouldn't

listen to them?  Something to think about...

If they must use computerized drawings, I would think they would do a series of test drawings immediately prior to each actual drawing. This would be quick and easy with a computer, just have it do 10,000 draws and print out a statistical analysis of numbers drawn percentages, positions/numbers percentages, combination percentages, etc. The more pre-draw trials the better as the more draws the more equal all number sets should be...

I hope they don't mess up my PA Mid day computer drawing...my bread and butter.

Sweet as honey.

Are we supposed to take their word for it?. It will happen again.

Why didnt anyone from LP take advantage of the mistake

Instead of a 10x10x10 for a straight.. it wouldve been
10x 9X 9 for a straight.  810 numbers for a $900 online win... all day everyday

"The Arizona Lottery assures our players that the issue has been remedied, and the Pick 3 drawings will continue to move forward with the utmost integrity."

That's absolute nonsense.

How can you assure anybody of anything when you don't even know when your fake computer drawing is malfunctioning?

What the bloody hell is so wrong with real ball drawings?

Is it just too hard to program wins for your buddies that way or what?

Your silly excuse that it's too expensive is bullsh*t and you know it.

You're a bunch of thieving crooks just like everybody else in government.

I guess you can't believe lotteries when they say they constantly check and test their equipment to make sure their drawings are fair.  Sounds like they wait until someone complains and then check.

I noticed it to a while back I thought I was going crazy myself. I do play online and I was looking at all of the past patterns.

In Arizona the keys are usually the 1st and 3rd positions only never in the 2nd. I thought this was odd.

That's right RJOh, they're our state lotteries but they're about as responsive to us as anybody else in government is, which is not at all.

The players want real ball drawings and they simply refuse because we'd be able to see what's going on too easy.

And they're all just political hacks with plush, cushy jobs who got their positions because of who they know and they couldn't care less what we think.

Utmost integrity?....... yeah, and maybe things will start to fall ....UP !

People are mistaken when they think that "Random" means that anything can happen.

Maybe that is why they don't notice some problems.

Even with so called "random" there are some limits.

Perhaps even the so called "Math Experts" don't understand random statistics any better than "Joe Blow", it is for sure that the state lottery people are not  "Lottery Experts", remember the "No Doubles" pick 3 thing on Tennessee?

I think its still a problem in Arizona cause its not even 12am out there and the draw is out early like around 11:3pm I think they are still having issues.

This sounds like a repeat incident from 15 years ago in AZ:

http://tucsoncitizen.com/morgue2/1998/06/12/32669-no-9-error-cuts-76-000-from-prize-in-pick-3/

Problem is, the state lottery people do not have expertise. They are provided equipment by various vendors and contractors, given instructions on how to operate it. But they are not experts. They are not analyzing the results like many players are for statistical anomalies. Ball drawings are not immune either, but more straighforward than a computer draw with hidden code and settings.

There will continue to be issues like this, as long as there is no expertise in house. (like so many similar incidents in CA, KS, TN, and AZ) This also means someone at the vendor could purposely slip some "flaw" in there without them knowing too.

WOW! Ouchy! Computer bad!

Oh boy, seriously?

C'mon, 3 pre-tests and 3 post-tests or more doesn't bother anyone in a ball drawing? It happens everyday. Can you imagine how many people who are eagerly waiting for due numbers to show in the official draw, day after day, only to show in the pre-tests and post-tests? And then finally give up after spending how many dollars?

I've seen a number out in the first position longer than 30 or 40 days in a ball drawing, or the second position. But you'll see it show in the third position because of the finagling. Not to mention the juggling of the ball tubes, meaning rotations. On top of that, they have at least 3 sets of machines they use in rotation.

So bottom line, once in a blue moon you have a computer glitch and it's the end of the world, yet most ball draws around the country totally screw up the flow of numbers by complex interference as mentioned above every single day, and this doesn't cause a major stir amongst players?

Who ever got into the system knew what they were doing. It sounds like the systems were never updated with the back door on it.

Tonight is way off. Its not even 9pm in AZ and the draw is out? Come on.

I said it last time, it would only be a matter of time before another lottery running computerized hardware would fail..  Again, it won't be long before another one happens. You would think these Lottery commisioners would wise up because the integrity of the Lottery is on the line.. People will not forget,  Arizona Go back to REAL drawings instead of FALSE drawings...!!!

I agree Mad cause this is crazy if this was going on here where else can it be happening? 

This is the 2nd time this happened?

Glitch....yeah sure

I notice they didn't bother to mention why operational computer code was modified to the extent that a serious error was introduced. As a professional programmer of many years, I learned early on that you test, test, and test again, and then retest again whenever you make even a minor code change. But this situation is almost beyond belief. What happened on or about June 10th that required a software update? And why did that update step on something as crucial as the number generation subroutine?

Especially with other people's money.
Come to think of it- where is Ronnie?  Could it be that he too was a victim of this so called"Glitch".
Trying to put the genie back in the bottle is foolishness at this point. This crap could be Nationwide and may well have been going on for years, whose to say otherwise?Accepting the word of these lottery officials that the problem is now " fixed" is too little too late.
Its time to send these computerized drawings into the Abyss.

Translated:  So sad too bad!!  Even though we screwed up, we are keeping your money and laughing all the way to the bank. 

Computerized drawings should be banned ... PERIOD!!

Pre-tests and post-tests with real ball machines are out in the open where you can see it.

When somebody goes into the computer, they can do whatever the hell they want to do and then tell you they did something completely different.

I'd rather have the church lady cranking the bingo basket give me the numbers than some friend of the governor political hack with a computer.

Any day of the week.

Just because they're in the open doesn't mean it's ok. Wrong doings can be done in the open under false presumptions.

If I do 20 pre-tests , does that make it ok because it was transparent? Where do you draw the line?

So basically you're saying that it's ok that they are screwing with the flow of numbers, as long as they show how they are screwing with it? lol

@ Ridge, also, the church lady isn't doing 3 pre-tests and post-tests. She's gathering the balls and placing them in the chamber. That's the way I'd rather see the drawings. No tampering with the excuse that the pre and post is done to ensure the machines are working properly. Machines will break down no matter what you do. In fact, the more pre tests and post test one conducts will surely guarantee a quicker breakdown exponentially due to the law of physics. The more wear and tear you impose on a machine will greatly improve the chance that that machine will break down. There's no such thing as perpetual motion as we know it so far. Unless someone can overcome friction, wear, and heat, machines will always fail in the end, especially when you advance their breakdown by encouraging them, via  pre-tests and post-tests.

I never said they should do any pre-tests. Where'd you get that? They only do pre-tests to throw people off. I don't think they should do any pretests whatsoever. But they don't listen to me because they have legions of people like you who they know will go along with the program no matter what they do. 

You're saying because you can't catch them in the open, we might as well trust them to do whatever the hell they say they're doing behind the curtain?

Yeah ok, that makes a lotta sense.

LOL, they love guys like you.

AZ recently switched this month to all draw games at 7pm, AZ time. It's on the website.

Also, AZ had a similar issue a few years ago! The #9 wasn't even in the system to be drawn, for months.

People are mistaken when they think that "Random" means that anything can happen.

Let me expand the statement!

As I have said many times, if anyone believes anything man made or involved with, can be random!!!!

                                                wrong!!                                                                           

The players that do not save their tickets will be irked they have no compensation for the lying, cheats mistakes.
AZ might want to set a few things 'right' with the players who are crying foul and fraud. Would it be in AZ's best
interest to 'make it up' to them? The computer drawing is a controlled drawing, by no means random. If they
are looking to bring back the integrity *cough* of the game (or show the folks the games are back to normal)
can't they do a few programming changes to make the 8 and 9 show up more often to satisfy some players
suspicions that everything isn't A-Okay with AZ Lottery? They can do it in a subtle way but if players see
their favorite numbers being drawn with 8's and 9's and are winning, do you think they'll suspect tampering or
just think, it's about time they 'fixed' it?
It should be interesting to watch and compare future results with the results shortly after the last glitch/difficulty/
sham/scam/rip-off occurred.


ARIZONA your best numbers to choose for awhile might be 8's and 9's in 2nd and 3rd position.
(maybe even triple 8's and 9's...you do, btw, have triple triggers on the 13th and 20th )

Thanks for posting that link! 

I don't normally do this, but I'm going to paste the article text here, because it is so old and I don't want it getting lost.

No. 9 error cuts 76,000 from prize in Pick 3

by Tucson Citizen, Jun. 12, 1998

If your lucky number is 9, you actually had zero chance of winning the Arizona Lottery's new "Pick 3" top prize over the past month.

Lottery officials yesterday revealed a programming error that omitted the number 9 from any combination of winning numbers.

Although the error was corrected Wednesday – and number 9 did come up as a winning number that night – the game was suspended this morning by Gov. Jane Hull.

"There can be no excuses," Hull said. "Mistakes like this are unacceptable. We are going to take some time and sort through this situation. I have many questions and few answers. Until I get those answers, the game will not go forward."

The error was in the randomization program supplied by Elsym Consulting of Atlanta. The company apologized for the error.

"This software should have never left our office in the condition provided," said company president Len Simonis . "We realize the seriousness of this error and the great burden it has placed on the Arizona Lottery to convince its players that its game is beyond reproach."

About 76,000 Pick 3 tickets with the number 9 were sold in the last month.

Sales were already under way yesterday, so the drawing had to be held, said Lottery director Geoffrey Gonsher .

Refunds will be given to players holding Pick 3 tickets with the number 9, although no details were immediately available.

Pick 3 was introduced May 3. The top prize for the game is $500.

Here's a comparison I find very interesting:

1998:

"We realize the seriousness of this error and the great burden it has placed on the Arizona Lottery to convince its players that its game is beyond reproach."

2013:

"The Arizona Lottery assures our players that the issue has been remedied, and the Pick 3 drawings will continue to move forward with the utmost integrity."

Why not just boycot the Pick 3 game (and other games that use random genererated numbers) until Arizona switches to ball drop machines.Problem solved!

I say look for flaws and go in for da kill...... eliminate 1 digit and you eliminate a lot of straight numbers.......

Thanks arizona. Now im looking to see if any other states using same software has same issues..... I cant believe no one from LP caught that mistake. Maybe someone did and didnt wanna share...

They are provided equipment by various vendors and contractors, given instructions on how to operate it. But they are not experts. They are not analyzing the results like many players are for statistical anomalies. Ball drawings are not immune either, but more straighforward than a computer draw with hidden code and settings.

I don't trust no human, when money is involved, period. Do the contractors in the states that have ball drops, maintain the equipment? Does the state have inspectors, watching these people? I don't have any idea. I have a 90 year old friend, from N.Y,who played the numbers there. Since 2005, that is when Fla changed contractors, they are rigged.

Rebecca ceo of the TN Lottery you need to read this. 

Unless players quit they won't change. It's easier to sit on a couch with a remote to control the machines, then standing up.

Yeah, other differences:

1998:

Gov. Jane Hull stepped in, refunds offered to players holding Pick 3 tickets with the number 9.

2013:

Gov. Jan Brewer? Replacement tickets offered, but only of the same number or QP, no refund, not even credit for a different game?

Perhaps you are winning because of a computer "glitch"

7 #'s ....better then 9.....

Should I be reluctant to buy my tickets for AZ  ?

5/41Drawing Days:Every Day Except SundayDrawing Time:7:00 PM Arizona Time (GMT-7:00)Draw Method:Computer Random Number GeneratorCurrent Jackpot:$494,000 for the drawing on Wednesday, August 21, 2013

If youre smart youd play key digit straight strategy usng digit 9.

I dont think Im smart, because I dont play pick 3.

I agree

These types of situations make lottery experts who say looking for patterns in lottery drawings is a waste of time look foolish.  Players who play the same combinations multiple times in the same drawings and win must know or suspect something and it would foolish of them to share with others who aren't willing to spend time looking for such flaws.

Finally, someone agrees with me. 

it would foolish of them to share with others who aren't willing to spend time looking for such flaws.

Which is why you shouldn't trust anybody who sell any lottery system. If they really have a system that works, why would they want to share it with you?

They're keeping the money where they want it in 2013..all players might not have won in the problem time
frame. How many do you think will win on the day their replacement drawing is conducted? How many qp's
are going to be from a losing pool? They stand to keep more money doing the way they're doing it.
To be sincere and make things right, they should give the players the 8's and 9's they played plus a quick pick on top of it.
Wouldn't that be a first? An organization that wants to redeem themselves AND show the people they are willing to make
things right in ways that do not just favor their own agenda. $$$$$$

 People that say the lottery is completely random and that past results have no bearing on future draws are just ignorant of the real world situation. All lottery drawings are a man made approximatoin of random, not true random like the ideal theoretical. It has been confirmed time and time again to fall short, either due to incompetence or intentional manipulation. While I myself am not a system believer, if people want to go and look for anomalies in lottery drawings, go for it.

I agree.  Sort of like the McDonalds monopily game scandal a few years ago. To gain peoples trust in the game again they decided tongive people free entries in the following edition of the game without having to purchase a meal

COMPUTERIZED DRAWING GLITCH STRIKES ARIZONA LOTTERY

This is why it's hard to play computerized games.  All of Oklahoma games(except Mega & Power) are CG.

I've written a few times on LP before that I don't like computers either. All I'm saying is that they shouldn't do pre tests with balls or computers, that's all.

Legions of people like me? Like If I protest, they'll listen to me?

Ok, lol

I agree onlymoney.  NC is the worst and have even more pre-tests but always manage to come up with an excessive amount of repeats and mimicks computer glitiches with numbers never being drawn with ball draws. We are talking about out of the blue don't play save your money stuff.   I thought I would never say it but I wish NC were computerized at least you will stand a better chance of hitting the numbers that are running.

I agree.

I agree, can't tell which is worse. lol

Just like an LP member wrote a few months ago, it's like starting your car five times a day just to make sure the starter is still working. lol

I guarantee you I'd win more often if they just left the dang machines alone.

All the flaws discovered aren't permanent but usually only last a couple of months so even when they are discovered a player only has a short time to take advantage of them.  Most players wouldn't want to constantly change their playing strategies as new flaws are discovered and corrected.

Sometimes you'll have that

 i wish Indiana would make some mistakes maybe then my numbers will hit

"On Aug. 5, the Arizona Lottery discovered there was an issue in the Pick 3 programming code that prevented the numbers eight and nine from being drawn in certain positions between June 10 and Aug. 3."

The drawing would be random if they used a deck of cards and used ace through ten from three suits. Hearts are the first digit, Diamond the second, and Spades the third, shuffle the three piles individually and draw one card from each. It's the same simple principle other lotteries use with ball drawings.

The RNG program Arizona is using can't be random if it can't generate a random three digit number from 1000 combos 000 to 999. If the RNG is programmed to randomly select and a three digit combo from 000 to 999, there can't be a glitch. If it's programmed to select one digit from 0 to 9 in three digit positions, there can't be a glitch either. I can program a spread sheet to add, subtract, multiply, or divide the numbers in columns A and B and place the results in column C and there will never be a glitch unless I change the programming.

The Tennessee Lottery said their glitch was the "no repeat" function in their program that was put there because the same RNG program is used for their TN Cash game. If someone has to check and/or uncheck that function, human error can be a glitch.

"If the tickets were a Quick Pick, then the newly issued tickets will be Quick Pick, but replacements will have different numbers than the originals."

The TN glitch was indentifiable by the players because no repeat digits were drawn in both pick-3 and pick-4 games and apparently Arizona players noticed no nines were drawn in the second digit position and no nines or eights were drawn in the third. I have no idea how there could be any glitches if the RNG were programmed correctly so it's obvious they weren't. My real point is the RNG that selects QPs where it's impossible for any player to see all the QP distribution. If RNG drawing errors can be made and go undetected for weeks, what about RNG QPs errors that may never be detected?

How could anyone know because of an undetected QP RNG error it was impossible for any terminal to generate a QP with the numbers that were drawn?

The Arizona Lottery should give the players holding QPs with nines and/or eight the option to get the amount they bet because that bet was placed on a specific drawing and not any drawing the lottery chooses. It's even worse for the self pick players because they chose a specific number to play in a specific drawing.

If there can be QP RNG errors, it's "buyer beware", but some state lotteries are making billions in profits and won't use a simple inexpensive drawing method that is transparent. If the number you played or the number selected for you can't be drawn, you were cheated and Arizonia won't even give back the money you spent to get cheated.

You should be thanking your lucky stars than Indiana is moving to real drawings for midday.  The first time I have ever seen a lottery do this -- hopefully the start of a trend. 

Support the Indiana Lottery -- especially the drawings that it does with traditional ball machines!

You might have a genuine complaint and relevant to this discussion if after the pre-drawing test they removed the nine from the second digit position machine and removed eight and nine from the third digit position machine.

Are you saying a pre-drawing test can prevent a digit in the second digit position and two digits in the third digit position from being drawn when the digits are still in the machine because of the pre-drawing test?

Expense is always the excuse for going to RNG drawings from live ball drawings and possibly some what justified because not that many players watch the live ball drawings. The Kentucky Lottery found a compromise by inexpensively streaming their live ball drawings via Internet. They even archive the drawings so when they had their glitch last month anyone can view it.

When lotteries do use expense as an excuse like Arizona probably did, they usually refuse to pay for their mistakes. When Kentucky had their live ball drawing glitch, they drew a second pick-4 number and paid off the same amount on both numbers. Arizona won't even return the price of useless tickets they sold for several drawings.

hey lottery post are you going to pay for the air time  i dont think so ya digg

You gotta wonder how many times this happens that they don't admit to.

Idaho went something like 25 days without a double in their pick 3 not too long ago.  Two drawings a day.  Never heard a peep from them about it.  Up until then, I used to play Pick 3 occasionally but haven't spent even a dollar since then.

New Jerk Alert.

Yep!

The 9 in positions 2 and 3

It recently had a skip of 61 and 57 Position 2 came in 8/9 after skipping 61 draws and in position 3 it was drawn on 8/8 after skipping 57 draws.

The 8 in position 1

The 8 in position 2 was only drawn 2 times.

"Legions of people like me? Like If I protest, they'll listen to me?"

I know one thing...

If legions of people like you go along with the program like a herd of sheep and never object to the corruption, it'll only serve to perpetuate the intransigence on the part of the political hacks running the lotteries.

If they think a large enough percentage of us are willing to put up with it and merely complain about peripheral concerns like pre-draws and such, they'll never change anything. We'll have fake computer draws forever. 

Look at Indiana going back to real ball drops for one of their games. They're responding to the demands of the players.

But if we don't demand, they don't respond.

Right now, Arizona is telling it's players to pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. Yeah, they got caught again but once again they say they fixed it and everybody should just keep moving, nothing more to see here cuz once again the lottery is back in operation with the "utmost integrity."

Yep, sure it is, just like last time.

Don't think we have any computer drawings in the UK, only the EuroMillions raffle is.

I've read of numbers not showing up for long periods and being explained as normal for random events.  I'm starting to wonder if random have any parameters in which it must preform or does anything goes.  The fact that something doesn't happens isn't proof it couldn't happens.

The #oldheads seem not to like computers much lol

Dummy alert! Or is this an old dummy?????

Indiana was discussed around here at one time about their computer draws and the amount of lottery winners that came from the draws. Not many winners I understand.

Some debate on whether they were rigged.

I do not like them for lottery draws or other areas where integrity is involved.

Are you saying a pre-drawing test can prevent a digit in the second digit position and two digits in the third digit position from being drawn when the digits are still in the machine because of the pre-drawing test?

No, what I'm saying is that the unexcusable and unethical things the officials do with the pre-tests, post-tests in ball drawings, many times on a daily basis all over the country, eclipses any computer drawing horrors such as in this case. People should be outraged over what the officials do with ball drawings, yet one glitch in a blue moon with computers and all hell breaks loose.

Of course it's always a bad thing when things like this happen with two numbers not showing in different positions, but the overall atrocities being committed by officials with ball drawings should be outlawed. This is what people should really be angry about.

Do you really believe that enough people complained about pre and post test, that they'd stop doing them?

They'd rather shut the p-3 and p-4 down before conceding. They're very aware that if they do that, they'd lose a lot of money because people would win more, much more.

Your example of Indiana is not the same thing. They're probably jumping for joy now that they can perform 5 pre-tests, 5 post tests, rotate the tubes, rotate the machines, throw the machines down a flight of stairs before and after the draw, have a Shaman come in and cast a spell before and after, throw it in boiling oil, and so on. lol

Amen my brothren! A BUNCH OF CROOKS.... CAN'T TRUST THEM BEHIND A TREE!

What makes you think you can impose your value judgement on others:

People should be outraged over what the officials do with ball drawings, yet one glitch in a blue moon with computers and all hell breaks loose.
This is what people should really be angry about.

I'll be angry about whatever the hell I want, thank you. 

I'd bet most people understand that balls need to be checked and weighed, the machine and ball action should be verified to look for tampering, before the draw, to ensure a fair result. This happens with pick 3,4,5,6, MM and PB. It's kinda industry standard. Or as you call it, unexcusable and unethical? Right.

Obviously you don't get it and never will. Most people in denial have their ears closed with the palm of their hands and go na na na na na na na na, I can't hear you, i can't hear you, na na na na na na na.

I refuse to repeat everything I wrote earlier. If you can justify starting your car five times a day to make sure your starter still works, I'm all ears. If not, simply go on and stick your head in the sand like you and many others have been doing for so long. You're the type of people the officials love. The kind that agrees with them on the BS about making sure the machines work properly before and after the game.

What do you think they'll do if the machine breaks even after all the precautions? They'll still have to redo the draw right? So what did they gain? NOTHING! When a machine is ready to break, it's gonna break.

Tampering? have a video record the machine in a well lit room. Problem solved. What's the next excuse?

If anything, they aided in the breaking down of the machine sooner from all the wear and tear of pretest and post tests. DUH!!! So If you really wanna believe that BS, go ahead.

Industry standard huh? You really have a lot to learn.

Planned Product Obsolecence is also an industry standard. I guess you're ok with that too?

Wrong Lonely, pre draws are like warming up the car before you drive it down the street.

I Like to warm my car up before i go to anywhere gets my seater heater warm

How do you win more because of ball draw?

i do not know just go alone with them or you will be yelled at for not agreeing your onions don't matter

So you warm up the car 3 seperate times before you drive? And then warm up the car 3 seperate times or more after you come back home?

Troll alert!!!!

Great analogy! 

I like D car wit D seat warmer built in.

Thanks, too bad for Lonely the true hurts. 

even if it takes 19 times and in the summer.

I like my onions caramelized.

They're very aware that if they do that, they'd lose a lot of money because people would win more, much more.

Where's the proof? That sounds like a copout: I'd win a lot more if only they didn't do the pre/post draws. That's a victim mentality. It reminds me of Sergio Garcia whining and complaining about a golf course, blaming that as the reason for not winning, when other players fly past him and win on the same course.

Just because a number you think is *due* came out in the pre-post draws does not mean it was intentionally kept out. It just means it came out in the pre-post draws.(and that pisses you off)

All these cases of computer draw incidents in this thread are verified by the lottery themselves and reported in major news publications. Where's your evidence of intentional manipulation on the pre/post draws? As they say, put up or shut up.

Seater heaters are good for warming up lottery machines.

 Yeah, like he won a lot of money BEFORE they did pre-draws or something? right!

Thank you Lucky    Thank you Blue Moon & all the Full Moons to.

Do you start your car three times before you leave to make sure the the starter is still working, and then after you come back home you start your car 3 more times to make sure your starter is still working?

Wow, I'm going to open an auto parts store close to your house.

Does the dealer at the Roulette table perform 3 spins to make sure the wheel is working properly? And then after the real spin with people's money, does he then again spin the wheel 3 or more times to make sure the wheel is working properly?

Does the attendant at the fair make the riders waiting on line at the ferris wheel ride wait until he spins the ferris wheel 3 times  before and after to make sure it's working properly? People would eventually get tired of waiting and leave.

Did NASA launch the shuttle 6 times without a crew to make sure it was safe?

Do you turn yout T.V. set on 3 times before watching your shows, and when the show is over, do you turn it on and off 3 times to make sure your TV still works?

Do you turn on and off your vacuum cleaner 3 times before and after?

Do you run 3 empty loads in the washer before and after?

Do you run the dryer 3 times before and after?

Do you enter an empty spoon into your mouth 3 times before and after to make sure your jaw open properly?

You only have three lucky stars? 

Don't bother, it's futile talking sense to ronnie and don. They must be getting money from the officials.

If you get to the fair when it opens you will see the ride operator ride the ride FIRST before anyone else.

Some cars take longer to warm up than others.

It just means it came out in the pre-post draws.(and that pisses you off)

Well, like YEAH !, excuse me for feeling mad because my numbers were intentionally placed elsewhere.

Where's the proof? The proof is in their idiotic excuse of making sure the machines work properly. If you can't see that, then that's not my fault. I could come up with a better excuse than that. At least try to lie a little better, at least.

true, but in your world, he should do it b3 times before and after each time he let's people on. We have to make sure it works everytime right?

We are lottery official operatives, we get paid to be here. How did you guess?

your so funny

actually i had another car one time and it sat all winter then the battery died the guy at  the auto store said if you not driving the car you should at least go out and start it once in awhile to keep the battery alive who would have knew.

i like the number 03 for some reason this week

I would have knew.

I played the number 03 as well as the 20.

Well of course. But lottery machines don't run on batteries and in the cold elements.

i wonder if Todd will warm up his new corvette or just take off

I totally agree with "onlymoney" ...  it is not "TESTING" ... it's RIGGING!!!

Don't believe me... explain this nonsense in the Texas Lotto.   Is there any rational human being that is going to argue that it takes 6 "pre-TESTS" to make sure a machine works properly??  Are you kidding me??  I refuse to play that game for that reason only.  It's a joke!!

Lotto Texas - Pre-Test Numbers 2013

But they do gather dust.

my number havent hit so i thought they was cold

Your number is hot as a fire cracker.

I just went to the kitchen to make myself a vodka drink, but I first opened the freezer door three times to make sure the door worked, got my vodka out, and then opened the freezer door 3 more times to make sure the hinges were still intact.

Then i opened the fridge door 3 times to make sure the door worked properly, got my mixer, poured it into my drink, put the mixer back in the fridge, then opened and closed the fridge door 3 more times to make sure it worked.

It's a good thing I didn't have a guest over, they might have thought I have OCD or something.

How could 6 pre-draws possibly create a problem for you? Even if they gave you all 6 draws plus the real one, would you have ever hit all 6 numbers for a big win?

C'mon, that's not enough, i think it should be 12 before and after, just for good measure. Thanks..

Is anyone placing bets on your freezer door?

 or they think you drunk  

No, but I want to make sure it works the next time I open it, when i'm finished with my drink. Who knows, the door could fall off and I'd have to buy another door. That can cost money you know, so it's kind of important.

i'll take that bet, i bet if he keeps doing that hes gonna wear the hinges off 

I believe the strongest point to be made is not so much the winning, but the BS being shoveled out by gutless politicians who use lotteries as a major revenue stream because they don't have a clue how to fix the systems they have broken.  Therefore, they rig lotteries in such a way that they make sure they extract as much revenue from the players as possible.  I will concede that matching the 6 numbers is a major long shot, but hitting the lower tier prizes become nearly impossible as well.   If you want to attract more players, you have to throw them a bone every so often.  Also, by screwing over the system players, you are cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Thank you, you get my point.

So you are saying that systems players can match all 6 numbers during pre-draws?

You beat me to the punch. I was just about to say, especially people like ronnie, and others like me, system players who rely on patterns and trends, you'd think he'd realize what he is writing. Patterns get all discombobulated and trends and patterns mean nothing. Why bother playing?

wow i think i may be on to something looking into the other games for the mega and powerball numbers

check out your states games

Can you be a little more pacific?

You are not addressing the point of the discussion.... explain the logic of the testing.  Can you address why it takes 4, 5, 6 tests to make sure a machine will work properly?  How about 1 or 2?  Using your logic, then that wouldn't make any difference either, right?  So why put more wear and tear on a machine and waste taxpayer money?  If the odds are so outrageous (which they are), then 1 test should do the trick, right?

And back to the point of the thread, computerized draws is definitely NOT the way to go, right? 

I believe, (correct me If I'm wrong), he did address that question. He's basically saying that the JP is a long shot and probably not show in the pre and post, but he did say that lower tier prizes might get affected.

well i can't post it here Todd will yell for posting numbers

but when i was checking my mix & match ticket last night 3 of the numbers was in the mega so made me look into the other games and then i seen something

So what did you see, a ghost? what? The anticipation is killing me.

You may be right "onlymoney", but I'm still waiting for some logic as to why it takes more than 2 pre-tests for any ball machine.  I would think that the pre testing is creating a higher risk of failure than the money draws.  And I also believe that companies like G-Tech use it as an excuse to charge higher fees to the states.  Yes, there must be some testing done, no argument there, but 6 tests, like the Texas Lotto does, is just wrong and it's not just for testing purposes, IMHO.

State run agencies will always err on the side of caution, and they are allowed to do whatever they want and neither do they care who wins or doesn't win, So 2, 6, 10..... whatever. It makes no difference.

Finally someone noticed the elephant in the room....... computerized draws are saving states money.

This is really a hot button topic. We have long suspected that we are being given the shaft, but just can't completely prove it. Then something like this happens, and proves our long held suspicions, and what do they do. They try to minimize your intelligence. Kind of gets your goat.

I think taking the risk of buying faulty tickets is part of the fun. Its ALL a gamble.

everyone knows it's random they told me that when i called them about the Quick draw game, when they kept leaving the 20's out then they left the 40's out sometimes they leave all the teens out once they left the 30's and 40's and 70's out that is really random

You won't get logic from a guy who thinks spending a lot of money on the JP game to get a JP win is a good investment for his future. I don't care if someone spends 200 bucks a week to get a JP, but to call it a good investment is nonsense.

Anyways, yes, there should be inspections. once a month check the balls to make sure they haven't deflated. lol. As long as there's a video recording the machine on off hours, no tampering can be done. No excuse can be made then.

And as far as the pre and post tests, total nonsense. machines will break when they want to. There's no such thing as perpetual motion, machines will break down eventually given enough time, and when you aid and abet in the premature breakdown by imposing more stress on the machine, it becomes even more of a rediculous excuse.

Does it make any sense at all? It's a self defeating process.

I'm going to hit the mirror with this hammer gently as to make sure it's strong enough not to break, but as long as I keep striking the mirror, the greater chance the mirror will fracture into little pieces. So this is my logic as to how i will maintain the integrity of this mirror, I'll just keep hammering away unti it finally breaks...SEE, IT WORKED, THE MIRROR BROKE. HAD I NOT BANGED ON THE MIRROR HARD ENOUGH I WOULD'VE NEVER FOUND OUT THAT IT HAS VULENRABILITIES!!...SEE?????

SEE MY LOGIC?

Who left them out?

the key is to play them along time i got my ticket for aug 16th - aug 30th

they can't hide forever

the computer

I thought you was at the PM making a new pick 3 system?

Yes Sir, it's called playing not to win, not playing to lose.

The kicker is, how random is RANDOM really?

Computer are become more and more a part of the game. Thay make a few mistakes, but they dont mean to.

Right, the computer made a random mistake. So its all still random.

everyone makes mistakes that's how you learn

If we all start thinking about our ticket purchases as a donation, we will stop complaining about losing.

i like driving on the new highways that we are building from our lottery money

I like the rest stops on the highways.

shocking  

do they have

Go 2 sleep in D car,,,,,,,, havning a camper is BETTER.

 you don't wanna sleep in your car there  people out there

Everyone has a gun in D car.

i bought a gun last year in texas but i never had to shot it yet it will shot 9 times then thats it

9 times is more dan enogh.......take it 2 D chooting range and choot D target bulls eye.

yeah like to try shot it 9 times before i need to like the predraws

D 23 is D powerball 2 times in a row.

l got to wondering: What if the playing public did not alert the lottery Officials to this glitch- would they* officials- have just gone about doing what they always do, thinking nothing is wrong?

Since when is the playing public supposed to " alert" officials about a game they supposed to be managing with integrity? Are they not the ones who should have caught this " before" it hit the fan?

Not really, because as I said earlier it doesn't matter who wins and who doesn't win and getting faulty tickets is part of the gamble a player takes when he buys a ticket.

Pre/Post test draws are necessary onlymoney, all 19 of them.

Buying " faulty tickets" as you put it Ronnie is not part of the game. Everyone who purchases a lottery ticket is under the impression that their ticket could be the winning one. No-one sells losing tickets anymore that  a convenient store should be selling faulty tickets.

Who do you know would saunter up to the counter and say " Give me $5.00 worth of faulty tickets?"

I highest I've known NC to do is 19.

I know.

When people have their mind set into place, it's almost impossible to get through to them. You saw how Ronnie was digging so hard to justify the amount of pre-tests.

Sometimes I think it's a defense mechanism that's gone awry. Why? Why defend such nonsense? who knows, they must have their agendas for some reason. They only know why.

All I can say to that is WOW!!  That is so many ways wrong ... I hope that the fine folks of NC steer clear of that nonsense .... 

Oh crud!!  My rating click was wrong!!  I meant to hit 5, not 3!!  Mr. Admin, can you fix?   

A person who can make programs and or Excel workouts, could make one that would alert him when one or more lottery patterns are long overdue, just as Paurths has done.

If that's true why aren't more players who claim they really want to win learning how to program or use Excel?

Nope, no way to change a rating. It was meant to be.

You're missing the point. Patterns and trends are misconstrued because of the tampering, therefore, an accurate assumption is erroneous, thanks to the pretests and post-tests.

Good example using the Panther system. A Certain pair is due based on repeat pairs, but they won't show, why? because the pair that was due has shown in the pretest or post test. Now I'll be chasing that pair for no good reason. I'll end up frustrated because that pair already showed up in a pretest or post test. Maybe, maybe not, who knows? No one will know unless the results are made public.

I can go on and on but most will never  get it. They just like to write bandwagon remarks, while i make real time examples of how these practices are damaging.

I try so hard to show how system players are being dealt a wrong hand by these practices, yet people i thought would really understand like ronnie and othe system players would understand my viewpoint. Systsems are worthless without real DATA.

How else can i write the importance of this? Why do so many fail to realize the importance of this? Am I alone on this?

Panther System huh- l have a solution for that.!!!

Guess I should have pre tested it before I clicked! 

Good point. We all meet the impending doom. No one will survive life.

BANG !

At least 12 times

Unless you're rich, life sucks. PERIOD !

Good nite get some rest

Exactly Todd.  That is definitely why I dont do computerized drawings. Some people on this forum just dont get it. The lottery is a billion plus yearly industry for a majority of the states and having players confidence in it is of upmost importance if they wanna keep those billions flowing in. And if it means paying a little extra to have a live drawing or investing in extra machines should they break down so be it. The return on this investment is beyond the roof.

I think Cali has the record incident: 6 months uncorrected no-repeat digits.(that players discovered)

http://articles.latimes.com/2005/may/13/local/me-derby13

These lottery draw people are just state employees following instructions from vendor supplied draw equipment. They are not mathematical analysts and are obviously not checking current results or past draws for statistical anomalies.

alert possible max-headrum glitch spotted in new york.....1xx63draws xx6 45 draws   xx7 54 draws........... can glitches travel just like numbers......... if this happens more frequently and players stop playing as much.. there will be changes... heads will roll... ny glitch alert////////

I would hope that the entities that run the lotteries do not intentionally rig things, considering that there are just too many people watching for such things ... too easy to get caught.  The entire problem with the computerized drawings, unlike the ping-pong-ball drawings, just like the article states, nobody can see what is really happening, until it continues to happen for a length of time.

One problem I have with Arizona's fix, is that not only is it screwing those who may have already thrown their old tickets away (that could have been winners), but it screws many others too in the way they they are replacing the tickets.  The original plays may have been based on some sort of "system" that may have been valid during the original drawings (that could have been winners), in which that "system" of plays may be obsolete for the replacement period.

I don't know how Arizona can make things right with those that have already thrown their tickets away, but I think that if they are going to issue replacement tickets, then they should do it such that the players get a credit, so they can choose numbers as they see fit ... for the current drawings.

Sure, there are times that people win because of accidents and mistakes, but you can never make up or re-do what might have happend had there not been a problem in the first place.

Here is a picture that shows that Position 2 Digit 9, and Position 3 Digit 8 and 9 were way over due in that time period.

Arizona Pick 3

Jimmy