Casino blames software glitch
Imagine feeling as though you are a multi-millionaire — surrounded by well-wishers — and then being told something must have gone haywire in the slot machine, and it was out of order.
Blue Chip Casino in Michigan City says a software glitch cause a colossal dollar amount to flash on the slot screen, just after a northwest Indiana woman sat down to play. She says it happened inside the Blue Chip on January 11, at a penny slot machine like this called "China Shores."
"They give you a player's card. I inserted it into the machine and within 5 minutes um I think I was in shock," said Jennifer Carmin, casino customer.
Jennifer Carmin, who owns a small ad agency in Hobart, Indiana, saw ten numbers and a dollar sign.
ABC7's Chuck Goudie asks: "Did you know what those numbers meant?"
"I think I was still in shock and I said 2,800; 28,000. It just didn't click and then somebody stood behind me and they — she — they kept saying you won, you won 28.9 million and then that's when I looked and that's a lot of commas," said Carmin.
And she says a casino employee saw it.
"She was next to me. All I heard and saw, she started screaming 'supervisor!' at the top of her lungs. So I saw the numbers, heard 'supervisor!' and within 30 seconds a gentlemen approached me from the casino. He said 'Don't touch the machine,'" said Carmin.
In the chaos, she took a couple of pictures.
"I was scared. I put my hands up. I didn't know what was going on. He said 'We don't know how this happened, what's going on and he's like what did you do?' My heart, it just felt like it was pounding out of my chest. I said 'I'm a very excitable person and you are causing me stress right now. You're kinda scaring me.' He said, 'Don't touch the machine! Clear the machines! We have to shut down the machines!'" said Carmin. "They said they have to speak to the Gaming Commission."
In the lower level state gaming office, she filed this complaint and says instead of $28 million, the casino offered steak dinners to her and her boyfriend.
"I mean what are two steak dinners? I don't even like steak. I tried to explain that to them, they thought that was funny. I said I don't think that's funny. I'm pretty shaken up by this situation," said Carmin.
A few days later this letter from Indiana gaming regulators promised "a thorough review" and the state has hired an independent gambling equipment testing firm to help figure out what happened.
Blue Chip executives would not speak on camera. They did send the I-Team a series of diagrams that blame computer error for the mistaken $28 million figure. They say it appeared on Jennifer Carmin's customer account screen; as a "current balance" of promotional credits; but that it that it was not an actual cash jackpot with bells and whistles.
"You don't want to make the player feel like they did something wrong," said Cory Aronovitz, Casino Law Group.
Chicago attorney Cory Aronovitz is a gaming law expert and teaches casino law at John Marshal Law School. He says disclaimers posted on slot machines allow casinos to void payouts if there is a malfunction.
"I think after the emotion subsides, most reasonable people would say 'Yeah, that doesn't make sense. I was wagering 50 cents and it said $28 million and there was nothing on the sign that said i had an opportunity to win that.' Clearly it was an error," said Aronovitz.
Carmin says she didn't see any disclaimer, only the $28.8 million.
"I'm thinking I'm gonna pay off my mom's house. I'll pay off my best friend's house. I'll set something aside for my son. You have all of these all of a sudden dreams," said Carmin.
Goudie asks: "Do you think you actually deserve the 28 million?"
"They're always taking my money and I don't say: 'Umm is that computer wrong or did you overcharge me?' So I mean, yes, to answer your question," said Carmin.
In a phone conversation Blue Chip Casino executives told us the slot machine manufacturer has already fixed whatever software bug caused the problem. But the Indiana Gaming Commission hasn't figured out what caused it or what should be done. The state gaming director says he can't remember a claim of this magnitude by a casino patron.
Thanks to picnic for the tip.
Pay the Lady.............
Wow, interesting story... depending on how the ruling goes. Any casino can say "software glitch" and not pay. She's due something but not the full 28 milion (maybe a few hundred thousand or possibly even a 1 million) Thats a nice software glitch.
she should have take the steak dinners and given them to someone who likes steak. they owe her the amount she bet on that pull (.50) in the way of a credit on her next trip there. she deserves that at least but no more.
You can't play a penny machine and expect to win 28 million dollars. I agree a couple of dinners and a free night at the hotel is all they need to pay out.
Who expects to win 28 million off a penny slot? Even so 2 steak dinner coupons was pretty lame. At least offer to comp hotel and maybe offer a few hundred dollars in casino credit.
Carmin says she didn't see any disclaimer, only the $28.8 million.
"I'm thinking I'm gonna pay off my mom's house. I'll pay off my best friend's house. I'll set something aside for my son. You have all of these all of a sudden dreams," said Carmin.
Talking about see your life flash before your eyes, how do you see in your mind all this being done without one red cent in your hands.
When Ohio had its Buckeye5 game they paid $100,000 for a 5of5 match and it was clearly posted on the play slips that total payouts were capped at $1M regardless of the number of winners. So when a player brought 20 tickets that matched 5of5 and thought he won $2M and sued, he lost the case because the discliamer was where he could have read it.
The casino should have posted the maximum a player could expect to win on a penny machine if a certain amount was unreasonable.
Before Ohio's Super Lotto Plus(6/49+1) went down the drain Ohio posted the most one of its ticket could win was $20M regardless of the jackpot size and people stopped playing it 'cause jackpots of $50M+ didn't attract them but at least they knew the maximum they could win before they brought a ticket.
If I buy a $1 MM ticket and match 5of5 plus the bonus ball, I don't want to hear someone saying I shouldn't had expected to win such a large jackpot with just a dollar after it's done.
She probably knows she'll lose and is just trying to squeeze a settlement out of them. $28 million on a penny slot....excluding the hold that doesn't contribute to the progressive, that would be nearly 3 billion pennies without a jackpot payout!
They should pay her the top Jackpot amount that the machine she was playing would pay for a 50 cent bet.
Coin Toss would know the answer to this situation. He was a Pit Boss at the Casino's in Vegas.
Come on CT- throw in your 2cents here,straighten the Forum out with your insights Ol Chap.
"If a crystal ball showed you the future of the rest of your life, and in that future you will never win a jackpot, would you still play?"
Such a crystal ball would probably only be right 99.9999% of the time which means I still have a 0.0001% chance of winning.
I would never spend my money on Casinos. I do not trust Casinos.
That's just it. When you win big money, and they don't want to pay, they call it computer glitch. When you lose big money due to a computer glitch, nobody bothers to inform you about it and refund your money. JUST PAY THE LADY.......at least $2.8M. She deserves at least that much. This is America.
Honor the bet.
She didn't even WIN the jackpot on the slot machine. It was the plastic player card that glitched. The machine didn't go off no bells or whistles. No ring a ding ding. No matching fruit symbols. It was just her plastic (think hotel key) card. When they removed her card and reinserted it there were only 00/00. No reason to even think that you had won anything on the slot machine.
for someone who hates lotteries and casinos and gambling in general, you expend a lot of effort to tell everyone that nearly every day.
I wonder if she'd also be stupid enough to think it would be okay to cash a tax refund check for $28 million.
Something similar happened more than once at Winstar in OK several years ago. Don't remember the details except there was a big report on the news. The casino said it was a glitch.
They like taking it but they don't like giving it back...lol
PAY THE LADY.
noise-gate,
Well I wan't pit. I was dealer then box/floor but thanks.
As for the OP, the IGB (Indiana Gaming Board) will go with this:
"I think after the emotion subsides, most reasonable people would say 'Yeah, that doesn't make sense. I was wagering 50 cents and it said $28 million and there was nothing on the sign that said i had an opportunity to win that.' Clearly it was an error," said Aronovitz.
Carmin says she didn't see any disclaimer, only the $28.8 million.
"I'm thinking I'm gonna pay off my mom's house. I'll pay off my best friend's house. I'll set something aside for my son. You have all of these all of a sudden dreams," said Carmin.
Goudie asks: "Do you think you actually deserve the 28 million?"
"They're always taking my money and I don't say: 'Umm is that computer wrong or did you overcharge me?' So I mean, yes, to answer your question," said Carmin.
_____________________________________
Surely a $28 million jackpot would be posted all over the place. "Conde play our alots! Win $28 Million!"
_____________________________________
When you work in casinos you have to get a license. In Vegas it's called a Sherrif's card, other states call them badges, but you have to go through state gaming control, which is usually state troopers, at least for getting the badges. In Illinois the Illinois Gaming Board guys knews they had a good gig and were really courteous when they took your photo and fingerprinted you, Missouri, too.
The Indiana guys, on the other hand, treatEd you like they'd just arrested you. "SIT DOWN! LOOK AT THE CAMERA FOR YOUR PHOTO. NOW I'VE GOT TO GET YOUR PRINTS, COME OVER HERE."
Well that settles it then. Thanks CT.
Thanks noise-gate. Saylorgirl pretty well described the scenario in her post.
Also let me add if there was such a jackpot that machine would have been under surveillance from the eye in the sky and people on the floor.
The Tropicana in Vegs had a slot that had a $2M jackpot. Every time it jammed and they had to call a slot mechanic there was the mechanic and two security people. One of the mechanics was an absolute nervous wreck when he worked on that one slot.
For the people in this thread saying the woman should get paid, what is it she should get paid for?
Well, I've never played slots, don't think I've even been inside a casino, I'm guessing expecting a large payout on slot machines seem ridiculous to people who have played it. Not seeing how it's any more ridiculous than expecting $656,000,000 from a $1 investment. Seems to me that if the payout wasn't ridiculous compared to what gets put in, very few would play. How many would keep playing if the ticket price was $100?
The more ridiculous payout is what would help lure customers in to one casino over another I would think. An outrageous amount doesn't seem weird to me at all. I'd simply figure they'd have it so the odds were astronomical.
CT, I don't think it's about herself deserving anything. It's about the casino showing good faith. It raises people's suspicions when a claim of a computer glitch is given as a reason to avoid making a payment in a gambling establishment. There is already a sense that these places aren't trustworthy. It creates negative media attention they'll have to overcome; plus now they're going to spend how much on lawyers to prove they don't deserve to pay anything.
Why not take that money and give it to her as a show of good faith. Not the $28 million, but the money they're going to shell out to quash this thing anyway. Money is going to be coming out of their pockets no matter what, why not give it to her instead of the lawyers?
What should she get paid for? I say give her 28,000 and a weekend in the top suite with comps for food and a show, its just to keep the players happy and not bad mouthing you casino. Since the shows food and rooms are paid for by the losers the only thing they'd be losing is the 28 grand, but that's a drop in the bucket to what they win. If I was the Casino owner I'd probably have those machines checked and doulbe checked to make sure that NEVER happened again and put that disclaimer on the back of their cards they stick in the machines
Pay HER!
That will happen to me when i hit a jackpot. Sorry stupid, it was a glitch and your still a loser. Here's a few Chimichangos for your pain and suffering.
"You're gonna have to use your own microwave if you want them hot."
Trying to be fair to both sides, it's a tough call.....28 million ?? on a penny,nickle,dime,quarter or dollar doesn't seem reasonable....If you were taking about maybe a $50-$100 slot machine ?? Possible......
I believe there have been similar stories like this in the past......Perhaps there should be a maximum posted jackpot on each machine(if there isn't one already)
I truly hope the casino is forced to cough up a sizable chunk of change...maybe $280 K ??? and no steak dinner crap either
I like how their argument is "who expects to win $28Million off of a $0.50 wager"
Ummm, alot of people do actually. We put down a single dollar on the Mega and expect half a billion in return.
Same thing happened to me when the machine showed 3300, but according to the pay table, I won $500. I was told "3300" is an error code and they paid me $500. I guess it's possible some of these smaller casinos have a bank of penny slot machines connect to several casinos, but the rolling jackpot usually scrolls somewhere on the machine. The thing that is clear are the symbols on the reels to win the jackpot and this s.
"They say it appeared on Jennifer Carmin's customer account screen; as a "current balance" of promotional credits; but that it that it was not an actual cash jackpot with bells and whistles."
Anyone who uses rewards cards notices different numbers on that screen which has nothing to do with the machine play functions. Most machines show the number of credits and how much is won during the spin. Had Carmin said she played the machine because she thought it had a $28 million jackpot and can show where she saw it on the machine, she might actually have a case.
"I'm thinking I'm gonna pay off my mom's house. I'll pay off my best friend's house. I'll set something aside for my son. You have all of these all of a sudden dreams," said Carmin.
I wonder how many lottery scams she answered. "Her email address won $5 million in the Nigerian Lottery".
Not $28 million mistakes, but mistakes are made everyday in casinos. Dealers over pay and under play players and the floor person usually straightens it out. There are players who complain they are not being paid correctly when they are. There is always arguments with the one roll prop bets in Craps. The gaming commissions have their rules and regs, the casinos have procedures, and a steak dinner is probably appropriate under the circumstances in this story.
I don,t think theirs casino in america that will pay 28,000,000 dollars,on a penny machine.Was this one of those Indian casinos.
"some of these smaller casinos have a bank of penny slot machines"
"I was told "3300" is an error code and they paid me $500."
I feel like I've heard this story a few times.
My question is always what the highest jackpot amount on the machine says? It's probably not $28 million, so she isn't deserved that. If they can't prove she tampered with anything, then they should pay out the largest payout listed on the machine.
Blue Chip Casino pay out!! will Your casino lose money
The problem with them paying out is she NEVER put in any money or played the machine!! That is why she didn't win!! All she did was insert her player card and it read an erronous number on the display. When the card was removed and put back in it was zeros. But she doesn't deserve any payout since she never even played the machine.
Goudie asks: "Do you think you actually deserve the 28 million?"
"They're always taking my money and I don't say: 'Umm is that computer wrong or did you overcharge me?' So I mean, yes, to answer your question," said Carmin.
This is classic entitlement attitude. Let us see here: the casinos are in the business to take people's money. No one forces anyone to walk into a casino and spend a single red cent. The wager per game is clearly stated, and you have the option to play or not to play. Give me a break lady! People like her need to be sent to an outback bush village where you have to walk miles just to go fetch buckets of water for drinking, cooking and bathing. That does of reality would cure that entitlement attitude.
If the top prize for a given game is nowhere in the neighborhood of the glitch readout, how on Earth does anyone think the casino should pay her out something when she never was entitled to anything? It would be one thing if the top potential prize was, say $50 million. But if the top prize for a penny slot game is only, say $2,500.00, then only an entitled idiot would think he or she is entitled to win an erroneous $28 million prize. The rules are strict. If the prize is advertised at a certain level and a person wins, then that person has a valid claim to that prize (e.g. the casino advertises one can win a Bentley plus $2 million in cash). But if the advertised top potential prize for a game is only $5,000.00 and a glitch occurs that flashes a higher amount, that person is not entitled to that prize.
The lady should have taken the steak dinner and paid it forward to someone who does love steak. I do not play slots, but I thought one only won if the machine goes bonkers making noises after getting matching pairs or triplets (I don't frequent casinos much and only check out the table games, so I can only talk about what I see on TV shows like CSI: Las Vegas when it comes to slot machines).
The bettor is a loser.
She deserved a coke and a smile and maybe a Happy Meal. This is a no brainer case. She is owed NOTHING!!
If that slot machine didn't advertise a $28 million dollar jackpot, then she is not owed one point blank. No slot machine would pay that kind of money. She's trying to milk this fake claim to try and get a few dollars out of it or she is that delussional in really thinking she's owed that.
"She didn't even WIN the jackpot on the slot machine."
"No reason to even think that you had won anything on the slot machine."
Who would have thought putting a hot cup of McDonald's coffee between their legs would result in a multi-million jackpot?
"For the people in this thread saying the woman should get paid, what is it she should get paid for?"
Those saying it are just as inexperienced with playing slot machines and using player cards as Carmin.
"And she says a casino employee saw it. "She was next to me. All I heard and saw, she started screaming 'supervisor!' at the top of her lungs. So I saw the numbers, heard 'supervisor!'"
The story makes it look like Carmin matched the winning symbols on the slot machine, but she misread what was scrolling across the rewards card screen. I doubt you were trained to scream "supervisor" even when a jackpot was won.
Stack47,
Over payments are known as 'leakage' and it's just an accepted part of doing business, but when the leakage gets enough to be noticed everybody gets heat.
Players who complain they got shorted when they didn't are known as 'claim jumpers'. Another part of that is claim jumpers look for toursits who appear to not know the game and claim those players' winning bets. Once a person establishes themselves as a known claim jumper the casino will purposely not pay them and call security when they raise a ruckus (at least in the old days).
In a situation like the one in the OP the girl calling for the supervisor was doing her job, she saw a claim coming.
Casinos not only have the 'eye in the sky' but the 'eye in the rug'. These are plain clothes security and surveillance people. Good luck to people who put in a baloney claim and have these people as eyewitnesses they didn't know about. Often they try to steal purses of women playuing slots or their buckets full of won coins, then happen to 'stumble' right into somebody who knocke them on their keister.
One time in a casino in downtoen Vegas everyone playing the slots in one section was a cop, Nevada Gaming Board, or casino surveillance. They were waiting to bust this one guy when he showed up and descended on him like a plague of locusts.
There's is a Nevada law called 'defruading an innkeeper' and many a claim jumper or just ignorsnt tourist with a bad attitude and less knowledge of a game than they thought they had has been given a ride downtown under that law.
There's lot more I could tell you but since so many here are self-proclaimned casino 'experts' here there's no real point, is there? Seems like quite a few in this thread just want the casino to pay out $28M on a claim just to see someone 'get over' on the man.
CDanaT,
Here's one of the similar cases. Caesar's Palace, late 1980s. A family from Arkanasa is playing a Megabucks slot machine, taking turns. Big jackpot, $1.9M, constant surveillance. The son takes his turn and hits the jackpot. Thing is, he was 19 years old, too young to play in Nevada. He was alo 6'5" and had a full beard so nobody got on him because he looked old enough.
Caesars' wants to pay him but the Nevada Gaming Board says no.
Here's one for all you guys:
Midwestern Riverboat. A couple blew their money and came up with a brilliant idea to get some money out of the casino. The husband goes up to the observation deck, puts a banana peel in front of the door. His wife comes out, 'slips' on the banan peel, and they call for help.
After security chekcs her out the couple say they are going to sue the boat. They are brought down to the office and the shift manager and security tell them they want to shoe them something. The whole things was on a surveillance video. Now all the casino people in the office are laughing like the guys in a scene in Porky's and they ask the couple if they still wantt to sue the boat. And then they tell them if the agree not to they won't charge them with fraud and have them arrested.
//
I think that couple may be posting in this thread, I'm just not sure of their username.
Wow, this is interesting.
Thanks for all that info it was a very intersting read.
Interesting stuff, CT, thanks.
Have ya got enough of that kinda stuff for a book?
Me and you could make a fortune!
Thanks CT.....great info......keep em comin'
GREAT stories & insite on this issue!! THANKS!
Thanks for the compliments folks.
People seem to like these stories so here's two more.
Every year the Nevada Gaming Control Board (http://gaming.nv.gov/) publishes a report on ways of cheating that peoplel got caught at.
At one casino security was checking the parking lot and saw a camper with the door open and a tv on. But the tv was showing one of the blackjack tables in the casino. Security stopped and the two guys on the camper said, "Come on in." Incredible. Their partner inside the casino had a canera in his belt buckle and was sending pictures of what the dealer across the pit was dealing and the dealer's cards. Security couldn't believe these guys were sharp enough to set up such an operation but yet invited them inside.
Casinos are always leery of blackjack players in wheelchairs because often they do the same kind of thing, signaling to a partner on a tablr on the opposite side of the pit. Many of them fake nedding a wheelchair.
Another one was these guys got their own roulette ball into a game. It contained electronics that would take a signal when to drop. It couldn't always hit specific numbers but it could hit panels, sections of the wheel. So one night they've got a streak going, their winning a lot, AND THEN THE BALL EXPLODED!
Then of course there's the clowns that try to put their own card into a game and don't notice their cards have a different color on the back than the ones the casino is using.
One time at Foxwoods casino there was a slot machine that had it's bin full of coins and no one was around. I looked at it for a minute and always wondered if it was a set up.
lol...this reminds me of last year when a group hacked into casino's surveillance feed for a high-stakes table and used it to see opponents' poker cards. They ended up getting about $32 million.
Re: the OP, here's slot machine malfunction FAQs from the Nevada Gamin Control Board. Granted it's not Indiana, but the same info. applies:
FAQs - Slot Machine Malfunctions
The first thing you do is contact a casino employee. If there is a question of whether or not you have won a jackpot and you dispute the casino's response you may telephone the Gaming Control Board's Enforcement Division. An agent will arbitrate the dispute. If your dispute with the casino is for $500 or more, and cannot be settled, the casino is required to notify the Gaming Control Board.
http://gaming.nv.gov/index.aspx?page=70#6
If you want to poke around that site there's some pretty interesting stuff, especially under Divisions, Enforcement Division
http://gaming.nv.gov/index.aspx?page=1
Q: What happens when a slot machine malfunctions?
"Have ya got enough of that kinda stuff for a book?"
That "kinda stuff" came out of someone else's book and lots of it was reinacted on TV shows.
"Me and you could make a fortune"
Why not just save time put your name over the author's?
"Over payments are known as 'leakage' and it's just an accepted part of doing business, but when the leakage gets enough to be noticed everybody gets heat."
$28 million added to a player's reward card is probably considered more than just "leakage" especially if there is a chance the player has a legitimate case. In most states the gaming rules and regulations favor the casinos about the same way lottery rules and regs favor state lotteries. Whatever the ruling won't prevent a law suit.