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Hoosier Lottery Does It Again

Topic closed. 60 replies. Last post 11 years ago by scott_one.

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LOTTOMIKE's avatar - cash money.jpg
Tennessee
United States
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October 15, 2004
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Posted: January 19, 2006, 9:08 pm - IP Logged

i agree jeff.the times they are a changin' like bob dylan once said.too bad they are changing for the worse.i'm gonna be real here because i see it with my own eyes.society is in a state of decay.things are slipping further and further down the drain.with each generation a little bit of respect gets lost and not gained when the torch is passed.rap would've never been popular thirty or forty years ago and neither would most of the trash they put on television.people think its cool to disrespect your elders and its not.who knows maybe something or someone can turn it all around.......

    LosingJeff's avatar - flower
    Greenfield
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    Posted: January 19, 2006, 9:13 pm - IP Logged

    Mike, you are a great guy! I have never met you in person, but you are a supportive , dedicated and deserving person. I really appreciate your help in trying to rid our society of corruption. To say it simply, "you are old school." Keep up the great work my friend!

    " FUN IS BAD " ----causes Bankruptcy

      LOTTOMIKE's avatar - cash money.jpg
      Tennessee
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      Posted: January 19, 2006, 9:17 pm - IP Logged

      thanks jeff!     you know the sad thing is i'm gonna have to shield my kids from all this stuff when they get older.they are just babies but all i can do is teach them right from wrong and hope that in the next decade we aren't all walking around with bulletproof vests on just to go to the store,lol.somewhere down the line something went very wrong with our society........

        LosingJeff's avatar - flower
        Greenfield
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        Posted: January 19, 2006, 9:22 pm - IP Logged

        When we were kids the rule was "kids should be seen and not heard". Gosh, it didnt hurt us did it. Now look at what we have. Tell a kid to mind and they rebel. This is what happens when society raises your children. They raise them, you just shut up and provide fiancial support! Frivalous lawsuits are no different. Geez, come into my courtroom and sue for spilling hot coffee on yourself? Id tell you to get out yesterday! What is wrong with people. As I said earlier, NO COMMON SENSE!

        " FUN IS BAD " ----causes Bankruptcy

          LOTTOMIKE's avatar - cash money.jpg
          Tennessee
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          Posted: January 19, 2006, 9:42 pm - IP Logged

          I Agree!......the thing is its just going to get stranger and stranger as time goes on.in the future people will sue each other for looking at someone the wrong way,not getting their order right at the drive thru window.the top song on the chart talk about murdering someone and dumping their whole family in a trash can.its trash culture its here and its just going to get trashier.a waste of good money if you ask me.like you said i'll go get a good classic if i want to watch something entertaining and not some idiot throwing up on his dad and videotaping it.morals these days...none left.they are like brain cells they go away if they aren't used.

            four4me's avatar - gate1
            MD
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            Posted: January 19, 2006, 11:09 pm - IP Logged

            fellas maybe you should put a packet of the information off to the local feds bureau there in Indiana. Since you all say the Indiana lottery is extorting money from it citizens then possibly they can look into it. If the local feds cant help then ship the stuff off to DC and sent it to the congressional office. The payouts speak for themselves they can do comparison checks and run the receipts versus payout to Indianaian's compared to states with equal population.

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              Columbia City, Indiana
              United States
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              Posted: January 22, 2006, 1:46 am - IP Logged

              Again, we were thrown out of the federal building in Indianapolis last April. Evidence in hand, we went there to speak with an FBI agent, on the advice of another agent, who told us they accept walk-ins.

              I can assure you, they do not.

              The FBI is composed of rude, nasty people who have hearing problems. I'm guessing at that last part, but it seems obvious, since they didn't want to hear anything LosingJeff and I had to say. First off, we were accosted by their Jabba-esque receptionist, who insisted that we explain every detail of our presentation before she would even consider putting the candy bar down long enough to pick up the phone. Once we explained that she wasn't invited to our party, she reluctantly called someone to report the troublemakers. 

              The bitter and wrinkled spinster we spoke with was no bargain, either. She just kept repeating, "Go see your attorney general..." and "You need to leave..." As she left us in the lobby, she refused to give her name, as did the Neanderthal who came charging out to assist her in berating us. When I asked their names, Tarzan turned on his heel, took two steps toward me and growled, "We're Investigative Control Specialists, and that's all you need to know about us!"

              No, Four4me, the feds aren't the answer. In fact, if this ever does spark a federal investigation, the FBI can kiss the darkest part of me before they get a look at my folder. I'll tell them where to look for evidence, but I'll burn the file before I'll let them see it now.  

              Unless, of course, they're willing to give me that kiss. In public. On live television. At high noon. Then I might reconsider and give them a page or two.

              Oh, one more thing - and this should save a post or two: I already wrote the director at Quantico and told him what happened, and I'm happy to report that it drew the expected response: My complaint was ignored.

              Here is a list of people we've met with and organizations we've contacted during our investigation of the hopelessly corrupt Hoosier Lottery (in no particular order):

              Fort Wayne Newspapers (Kevin Leininger, Frank Gray), Republican Chief of Staff Leslie Davis Hiner, Representative Robert Alderman, Representative Robert Cherry, Representative Tiny Adams, Representative Vi Simpson, Congressman Mark Souder, Sgt. Michael Thayer of the Marion County Grand Jury, Special Agent David Wintrode (FBI, Ft. Wayne), Indiana Attorney General Steve Carter, The Securities and Exchange Commission (since they're a corporation), Erin Moriarty (48 Hours), MSNBC Investigates, The National Enquirer (Yes! We are that desperate!), Nader's Raiders, Geraldo Rivera, Oprah Winfrey, Bill Kurtiss, CBS News, NBC News, ABC News, Fox News, CNN, 60 Minutes, The Detroit Free Press, The Los Angeles Times, The New York Times, The Indianapolis Star, The South Bend Tribune, The Kendallville News-Sun, Governor Mitch Daniels (three times), Ellen Whitt (Daniels' Deputy Campaign Manager) (twice - before the election), Marina Bookout (Hoosier Lottery Regional Sales Manager), Freddie Burris (Hoosier Lottery Prize Claim Coordinator), Joe Pfister (Hoosier Lottery Internal Auditor/CPA), former Hoosier Lottery Director Jack Ross, current Director Esther Schneider, Indiana Public Access Counselor Mike Hurst (no enforcement power), Indiana Inspector General David Thomas (same problem; no enforcement power), United States Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, Marion County Prosecutor Carl Brizzi, WRTV-6 (Raphael Sanchez), WPTA TV (Cathy, Programming Coordinator), Todd Northrop of LotteryPost.com, Joe at VersaBet.com, the Indiana Licensed Beverage Association, The American Legion, the ACLU, the NAACP (a long shot, but what the heck), Janna Shisler (Hoosier Lottery Legal Counsel who, I suspect, received her degree from The Upstairs College of Rules, Law, and Office Supplies), Special Agent Ray Gannon (FBI, Dayton), FBI Director Robert Mueller, Robert Voegler, an Indiana attorney (and, I might add, one of the most successful litigators in the entire state), three other Indiana law firms (whose names I've agreed not to divulge, at their requests), a Chicago law firm whose name presently escapes me (I still have their email; if this drives you crazy, let me know and I'll look it up for you), countless retailers and, finally, a private investigator who tried, but failed, to get a picture of the back of their RNG machine so we could see what it's connected to.

              This list is by no means complete, as for the first year or so I didn't keep accurate records of whom I met with and when. Consequently, I'm sure I've forgotten to mention a person or two, but you get the idea. There are presently a few additional irons in the fire, thanks in large part to some other members here on the forum who came up with some really nifty ideas (you know who you are).

              After pursuing this for three years, we're committed to seeing it through to the end. All we have to do is to keep adding names to the list. The process of elimination is slow and excruciating but, eventually, we're bound to find the person we're looking for.   

              Come, Pinky; we must prepare for tomorrow night...

              Jim

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                Chief Bottle Washer
                New Jersey
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                Posted: January 22, 2006, 6:14 am - IP Logged

                Jim,

                That was a great report for anyone who is not up to speed on things.  Thanks for all you do, keep plugging away...

                 

                Check the State Lottery Report Card
                What grade did your lottery earn?

                 

                Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
                Help eliminate computerized drawings!

                  LOTTOMIKE's avatar - cash money.jpg
                  Tennessee
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                  Posted: January 22, 2006, 9:49 am - IP Logged

                  i hope soon maybe there will be something that will happen like a disgruntled employee or something that could give this thing the attention it deserves.i think someone on the inside of the indiana lottery will have a "guilt attack" and start feeling bad and something will get leaked and it will gather momentum.they will hang themselves before its all over with......

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                    Columbia City, Indiana
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                    Posted: January 22, 2006, 1:03 pm - IP Logged

                    LOTTOMIKE:

                    There is good reason why this hasn't happened yet. According to Indiana state law, a person who works for the lottery in any capacity is forbidden to divulge "confidential lottery information." This is how they nailed Mr. Holcraft, an internal investigator who blew the whistle to law enforcement when he learned of William Foreman's friendship with Foltz and Daniels (of the scratch-off ticket scandal). However, it wasn't yet a scandal at this point, and would only become one after LosingJeff and I provided evidence to the Marion County Grand Jury.

                    Holcraft was fired immediately and threatened with prosecution, but not before being paid $7,500 to keep his mouth shut and to give Director Ross a heads-up if Holcraft was questioned by police about the matter (this was in an Indianapolis Star article, copies of which are in other threads concerning the Hoosier Lottery). 

                    The term, "confidential information" is not clearly defined by the Mensa club which composes our legislature, so it becomes an arbitrary term, applicable to any employment issue at any level of employment within the Hoosier Lottery.

                    A classic and well-engineered catch-22...

                    Come, Pinky; we must prepare for tomorrow night...

                    Jim

                      Thoth's avatar - binary
                      Findlay, Ohio
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                      Posted: January 23, 2006, 10:33 pm - IP Logged

                      Would it be possible to obtain the "confidential information" by way of a legal freedom of information request??  I have heard of people obtaining ball set & rotation information in other states this way. 

                      ~Probability=Odds in Motion~

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                        Columbia City, Indiana
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                        Posted: January 24, 2006, 12:26 am - IP Logged

                        Thoth:

                        Ideally, yes, it would be possible.

                        Indiana has the Access to Public Records Act, our state equivalent of the federal Freedom of Information Act. The Hoosier Lottery claims they're exempt from these laws because they're not a true state agency, but a privately-held corporation. At any rate, they largely ignore any laws written to govern them, such as the one which requires a live, public drawing for all their online games. They haven't aired a drawing since they made the switch to the RNG (which is really just an algorithm running on a PC).

                        We've made numerous requests for sales data and other information, all of which have been ignored. When we complained to the Public Access Counselor, he informed us that, since he has no enforcement power, all he can do is recommend that the offending agency comply with the law, but he can't force them to do so.

                        Attorneys here won't file the case because they fear reprisals from the legislature ("The statehouse can make it very difficult for us to make a living").

                        When LosingJeff and I went to Indianapolis to meet with Hoosier Lottery officials, we requested several documents (in accordance with the Access to Public Records Act), which should have been made available to us. We were told to go home and put our request in writing. When I got home, I sat down and wrote a very detailed letter, asking for the same information we had requested in person, and sent it via certified mail. Again, I specified that I was requesting the information IAW state disclosure laws. Janna Shisler, Hoosier Lottery legal counsel, replied with an email, saying that if I wanted that information, I would have to make an appointment with her and make my request in person. Should I decide to do that, once there, I'd be sent home again to write another letter, and so on...

                        The Hoosier Lottery is allowed to choose which laws it complies with, when to comply with those laws and when not to comply. They are immune, apparently, to any prosecutorial actions by which they would be inconvenienced, and have no concern of being held accountable for their treachery. They have the awesome and absolute protection of our state attorney general (who states that, should any wrongdoing be proven, his office will be defending the crooked lottery officials) and the entire statehouse.

                        We're just going to have to wait until a few more people in Indiana realize they're giving their money to the Hoosier Lottery with no hope of winning.

                        Come, Pinky; we must prepare for tomorrow night...

                        Jim

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                          Posted: January 24, 2006, 12:54 am - IP Logged

                          I'll just add my 2 cents here:

                          I received my packet of information from the Executive director of the Hoosier Lottery about 2 weeks ago.  There was (IMHO) not a lot of substantial information there.  Mostly just a bunch of press clippings about the beefed up security after the scratch off scandal.

                          I e-mailed the Executive Director a thank you note along with a series of questions.  One of the questions I asked was if I was free to discuss the information she sent me with other people.  The remaining questions had to do with the changes in the payout of the Hoosier Lotto game.  These were very specific questions regarding the extended annuity, (what appears to be) a reduced cash value payout, why there was no public announcement or explanation of these changes, what happened to the money in the prize pool and what happens to the additional money earned over the extended annuity period.  I also asked her some specific questions about when, where and why numbers are blocked in daily games. 

                          Do I have to tell you that I have not received an answer from her.

                          Jim 

                           

                           


                          Money frees you from doing things you dislike.  Since I dislike doing nearly everything, money is handy.  - Groucho Marx

                            LOTTOMIKE's avatar - cash money.jpg
                            Tennessee
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                            Posted: January 24, 2006, 6:15 am - IP Logged

                            something is going on there NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.its gonna be massive if the corruption ever does get exposed.i think there are some very secretive things going on behind those doors in that lottery headquarters.in the end maybe someone will have twinge of guilt and expose the dirty,rotten,flithy person getting rich off this because i think some of that money is making its way into someones pockets that isn't suppose to have it.i'm pretty sure some of their own people inside have no clue whats happening.after all if too many people knew it would compromise things.i think its one or two top dogs on the totem pole who are behind it all.......

                              scott_one's avatar - abstract
                              Lapeer, MI
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                              Posted: January 24, 2006, 11:37 pm - IP Logged

                              Highest Payouts in Michigan Lottery History

                              Daily 3

                              $4,965,980 on June 10, 1986 for the number 123 – 489% of the amount wagered that day.

                              Daily 4

                              $13,965,844 on April 15, 2004 for the number 1010 – 2,600.0% of the amount wagered that day.