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dog racing

Topic closed. 64 replies. Last post 10 years ago by jarasan.

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justxploring's avatar - villiarna
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Posted: August 8, 2006, 1:19 pm - IP Logged

Jack,

You're right - I didn't read your post carefully enough, because it was 3 in the morning. I did read it however.  I began responding to TrueCritic and ran out of steam I suppose. I also understand the points you make.  I mean, don't we eat cows that are sacred to other people? Then some countries use dogs for food. When the subject of dog racing was first raised, I was only reacting by vocalizing my opinion in a short paragraph to say I object to them.

Regarding the farming industry, I used to be a member of PETA and left because of the fanatic and I'm also not a vegan. However, are they really fanatics or just looking at everything you list above as cruelty to animals and want to stop all of it? I've seen the way baby chicks are tossed into barrels one on top of the other, as if they are golf balls, not living, breathing creatures. We already know where veal comes from and what is done to a baby calf to make the meat so tender. Horses are bought at auctions and slaughtered for meat to send overseas as the demand grows.

I know we live in a world where wars are fought for profit, children are sold for profit and animals are tortured for profit. I wasn't picking any particular one as my cause. My only cause, as selfish as it sounds, is to take care of myself right now. I was only responding to a post with my opinions, based upon personal research and experience. The way a couple of members have responded sounds as if the animals are brought to the track in the family van and raced for fun and exercise. These animals are not pets. They are commodities. Many good people who care about their dogs have been shunned by filing complaints. They've also left the racing business. I don't have a cause, an agenda, or anything "attached" to me. I was only expressing my personal beliefs.

    justxploring's avatar - villiarna
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    Posted: August 8, 2006, 7:38 pm - IP Logged

    "HSUS (according to their site) wants to destroy the fur trade, greyhound racing, hunting preserves." True Critic

    Sorry I missed this. As I've said before, it's so hard to read everything and respond and still have a life!  LOL Anyway, I don't wear fur. I once got a fur coat for a present and ask the gentleman to return it.  Regarding "hunting preserves," they aren't only wrong, they're for stupid, cowardly people. As if it's really a challenge to shoot an animal that is grazing in a controlled environment.  Most of these animals killed in what is known as a "canned hunt" have been raised in captivity, even bottle-fed.  Men who enjoy slaughtering birds and other creatures for pleasure are murderous idiots.  It is not the same as hunting for food & clothing. The Native Americans hunted buffalo and used every part of the animal (including the bones) for food, clothing and tools or weapons. They didn't get on the internet and book a trip to sit in an air conditioned van and shoot an animal. There is no chase as they are guaranteed the kill with their mastercard payment.  I see no "sport" in shooting something just for the thrill or to mount its head on a wall. I figure a man like that must be impotent and needs to show he has some balls by shooting a helpless creature and then going back to the office in his suit and tie to brag about it.

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      Coastal Georgia
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      Posted: August 8, 2006, 9:11 pm - IP Logged

      JXP: I agree.......

       

      git -er- dun types will disagree, but you speak the truth !!

      DD

       

                                     

                    

       

       

        truecritic's avatar - PirateTreasure
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        Posted: August 10, 2006, 8:41 am - IP Logged

        >I figure a man like that must be impotent and needs to show he has some balls by shooting a helpless creature and then going back to the office in his suit and tie to brag about it.

        That is one of the problems with any radical group - the lynch mob mentality that it induces!

        "What many hunters don’t realize, however, is that most hunting preserves abide by minimum acreage requirements. Further, most preserves offer hunting conditions that meet or exceed those on the other side of the fence. Shooting a deer in a true “pen” is as illegal as it is despicable!"

        Found at this website: 

        I would also hope that the disabled, elderly and young don't find out just how impotent they are.

        http://hunting.about.com/library/weekly/aa_ussa_b.htm

        Naturally, there is a lot more of the same to be found on the net. 

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          Coastal Georgia
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          Posted: August 10, 2006, 11:16 am - IP Logged

          Let's just give the deer high powered rifles and make it even...LOL

           

          Scared

           

                                         

                        

           

           

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            Posted: August 10, 2006, 1:17 pm - IP Logged

            >I figure a man like that must be impotent and needs to show he has some balls by shooting a helpless creature and then going back to the office in his suit and tie to brag about it.

            That is one of the problems with any radical group - the lynch mob mentality that it induces!

            "What many hunters don’t realize, however, is that most hunting preserves abide by minimum acreage requirements. Further, most preserves offer hunting conditions that meet or exceed those on the other side of the fence. Shooting a deer in a true “pen” is as illegal as it is despicable!"

            Found at this website: 

            I would also hope that the disabled, elderly and young don't find out just how impotent they are.

            http://hunting.about.com/library/weekly/aa_ussa_b.htm

            Naturally, there is a lot more of the same to be found on the net. 

            Shooting a deer in a true “pen” is as illegal as it is despicable!"

             The moral issue among hunting moralizers comes up when a person chooses to personally kill something he's going to eat, as opposed to hiring someone to kill what he eats with a sledghammer in an abbatoir (honest labor, though I wouldn't choose it).

            I haven't hunted in a number of years, but if people wish to do it there's a tough job to be done finding reasons they shouldn't.  As long as they make clean kills, don't shoot cows, other hunters, or me, they oughtn't have to put up with a lot of calumnies from people who hire others by proxy to do their killing for them so's they can pretend it didn't happen.

            It's unlucky for beeves Walt Disney never made a piece of filmy syrup about a beef calf named Lambi.

            J

            Absorb the good, ignore the bad, weigh the ugly.

            It's about number behavior.

            Egos don't count.

             

            Dedicated to the memory of Big Loooser

             

              justxploring's avatar - villiarna
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              Posted: August 12, 2006, 5:13 am - IP Logged

              True Critic, this discussion obviously isn't getting us anywhere.  I am not a radical or a moralist. I just call 'em like I see 'em, and would never in a million years refer to a disabled person as impotent. However, a man in a wheel chair can just as easily put a bullet through my brain as a healthy one on 2 legs. When an animal is surrounded by fences, it's still not a fair chase and my idea of a sport, is when there's some challenge involve. You obviously chose the particular words you felt would serve your case. I am not trying to prove anything. I already know what is right, so I have no battle with you as I have previously stated. To me, when the truth is spoken, it's not something that can be weighed and measured with examples and justification. It would be like proving that the sun has risen. If you can't open your eyes to the daylight, then we will always disagree.

              You also mentioned you support the fur industry, where baby seals are often skinned alive while they are beaten with clubs. Trapped animals often chew off their own legs to release themselves from traps where they will surely die from starvation or exposure. We began by discussing "canned" or "controlled" hunting which is no different than putting fish in a barrel and shooting them. Only the targets are bigger so the shooters feel more satisfaction from the kill.  It's like going to the zoo and even sportsman are troubled by thes baited killings where hungry animals are lured to feeding stations, only to be gunned down. Animals feel pain and suffering. When the fox hunt with hounds issue in the United Kingdom was challenged (and banned) the following was said:

              Killing for pleasure is wrong and should be banned. Fox hunting, stag hunting and hare coursing are moral issues. It is time that we stood up for morality. The commandment “Thou shall not kill” may be hedged with exceptions. “Thou shall not kill for pleasure” is not; it is a commandment for the 21st century and it is time that we respected it unambiguously, without prevarication and without procrastination.” -- Lord Harrison

              In my personal opinion this was not a "radical" statement, but the view of a rational, moral individual.

              I obviously don't impress you with my beliefs, although that wasn't my intention.. just to express both my sadness and my outrage. Perhaps people who have had a greater impact on the world than I might shed some brigher light on this issue.

              Ghandi: 

              "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way in which its animals are treated.

              I hold that the more helpless a creature, the more entitled it is to protection by man from the cruelty of man.

              I feel that spiritual progress does demand at some stage that we should cease to kill our fellow creatures for the satisfaction of our bodily wants.

              I do not regard flesh-food as necessary for us at any stage and under any clime in which it is possible for human beings ordinarily to live. I hold flesh-food to be unsuited to our species."

              George Bernard Shaw:

              "Animals are my friends...and I don't eat my friends."

              "When a man wants to murder a tiger he calls it sport; when a tiger wants to murder him he calls it ferocity."

              Tolstoy

              "If he be really and seriously seeking to live a good life, the first thing from which he will abstain will always be the use of animal food, because...it's use is simply immoral, as it involves the performance of an act which is contrary to the moral feeling -- killing."

              Percy Bysshe Shelley

              It is only by softening and disguising dead flesh by culinary preparation, that it is rendered susceptible of mastication or digestion; and that the sight of its bloody juice and raw horrow does not excite intolerable loathing and disgust. "

              Albert Schweitzer

              "It is the fate of every truth to be an object of ridicule when it is first acclaimed. It was once considered foolish to suppose that black men were really human beings and ought to be treated as such. What was once foolish has now become recognized truth.Today it is considered as exaggeration to proclaim constant respect for every form of life as being the serious demand of a rational ethic. But the time is coming when people will be amazed that the human race existed so long before it recognized that thoughtless injury to life is incompatible with real ethics. Ethics is in its unqualified form extended responsibility to everything that has life."

              Albert Einstein

              "Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegtarian diet."

              Leonardo Da Vinci

              "One day the world will look upon research upon animals as it now looks upon research on human beings."

              Samuel Johnson 

              "It is very strange, and very melancholy, that the paucity of human pleasures should persuade us ever to call hunting one of them."

              Mark Twain

              "It is just like man's vanity and impertinence to call an animal dumb because it is dumb to his dull perceptions."

              H.G. Wells

              "In all the round world of Utopia there is no meat. There used to be, but now we cannot stand the thought of the slaughterhouses. And it is impossible to find anyone who will hew a dead ox or pig. I an still remember as a boy the rejoicings over the closing of the last slaughterhouse."

              Jacques Cousteau 

              The real cure for our environmental problems is to understand that our job is to salvage Mother Nature...We are facing a formidable enemy in this field.  It is the hunters...and to convince them to leave their guns on the wall is going to be very difficult." 

              Edward Abbey

              "Whenever I see a photograph of some sportsman grinning over his kill, I am always impressed by the striking moral and esthetic superiority of the dead animal to the live one."

              Clint Eastwood

              I take vitamins daily, but just the bare essentials not what you'd call supplements. I try to stick to a vegan diet heavy on fruit, vegetables, tofu, and other soy products.

              James Cromwell

              "If any kid ever realized what was involved in factory farming they would never touch meat again. I was so moved by the intelligence, sense of fun and personalities of the animals I worked with on Babe that by the end of the film I was a vegetarian."


               

                truecritic's avatar - PirateTreasure
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                Posted: August 12, 2006, 10:49 am - IP Logged

                This thread started rather simple...does anyone here ever go to the dog races? 

                That's really a yes or no.  I do believe it was meant for a discussion about enjoying betting on the greyhound racing. 

                I generally opose all militant groups and some are more radical than others.  If they choose to speak up, then I also speak up for my point of view.

                It is up to the legislators to write the laws about how the animals are treated or killed and for what purposes.  Animals are animals.  I see nothing wrong about racing dogs, horses or roaches.  I see nothing wrong with fur coats.  I see nothing wrong with researching any animals.  I see nothing wrong with guns (except in the hands of criminals and used for crimes).  I don't care how much "sport" people derive from hunting.  I would prefer they eat what they hunt and not just kill for trophies.   I see nothing wrong with eating animals.  I see nothing wrong with zoos.  I see nothing wrong with people having animals as pets.

                If it matters at all:  I don't hunt (nor fish).  I don't trap animals.  I don't go to dog racing (MI doesn't have dog tracks).  I do eat meat. 

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                  Posted: August 12, 2006, 2:42 pm - IP Logged

                  does anyone here ever go to the dog races?

                  Fun thread, Mike.

                  Haven't been to a dog race in a lot of years. 

                  Nearest thing I've gotten to a dog race most recently was when I ran in a lot of 10K human races until I destroyed my knees.  The humans didn't appear to be any better at that than they are at anything else, though likely they thought they were better than dogs.  They didn't let it show if they were.

                  Never tried racing dogs except once in Korea when doberman guard dawgs caught me coming back over the fence to the compound from the village trying to get back in time for reveille.

                  I didn't make it.  Those old dawgs run fast.

                  J

                  Absorb the good, ignore the bad, weigh the ugly.

                  It's about number behavior.

                  Egos don't count.

                   

                  Dedicated to the memory of Big Loooser

                   

                    justxploring's avatar - villiarna
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                    Posted: August 12, 2006, 4:36 pm - IP Logged

                    I hesitate to reply one more time, because it will seem as if I need to have the last word!  I only posted those very long answers to respond to remarks calling people who defend positions "radical" which is a term people always use when they disagree on an issue. If someone feels strongly about this or that, he/she is called a "radical" which has been used in the political arena for decades. I was only demonstrating that for a long time people have felt the same, well before any of these non-profit organizations existed. The Essenes preached kindness to animals over 2,000 years ago. Believe me, I wish I were that dedicated. I am not a vegan. Sorry if I "took over" the thread with my emotional viewpoints. That was not my original intention, so I apologize although not for my beliefs. When TrueCritic stated that the Humane Society was against dog racing because it's a form of gambling, I felt compelled to react since I totally disagree. We have casinos here in FL with slot machines, roulette tables, poker and blackjack and nobody protests outside their doors.

                    I think I answered the original question. "Yes, I've been to the dog track. But not as a spectator. It was to protest the conditions of the greyhounds." I guess it brought back memories of last year's tragedy just a few miles up the road from me when more than 60 dogs were trapped in a fire. This is just a small excerpt from the newspaper article in my local paper, The Naples Daily News - a very conservative publication.  

                    An alarm signal overlooked by a security guard at the Naples-Fort Myers Greyhound Track early Wednesday left more than 60 dogs languishing for hours in a kennel clouded with smoke from a smoldering fire in its air conditioning unit.

                    Ten dogs died.

                    Another 54 were rushed to area veterinarians, where most were expected to recover, few to ever race again.

                    The Bonita Springs track closed for the day as emergency workers and volunteers labored for hours in pouring rain to resuscitate the dogs, providing oxygen and intravenous fluids before transporting them to area animal hospitals.

                    Once there, the most critically ill dogs wheezed and struggled for breath as veterinarians evaluated their conditions, provided what care they could and hoped for the best.

                    At least one greyhound died en route to treatment from the track, creating a death toll that has animal advocates nationwide criticizing safety conditions at the facility and at least one to promise a formal complaint is forthcoming.

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                      Posted: August 12, 2006, 6:56 pm - IP Logged

                      Justx:

                      Ain't nobody going to change the views of anyone else here.  Wouldn't matter if they did.

                      Doesn't matter whether someone thinks you're radical or doesn't.  They think as they think and they'll continue thinking that way because that's how they've chosen to do their thinking.  They chose that way of thinking because that's what way they like best.

                      It has nothing to do with whether that way is better, worse, equal to another way of thinking.  Opinions birth easy and die hard.

                      All this exchange has done is help define each of us in the eyes of one another as to what we are.

                      As for me, I appreciate the whole thing.  It helps me keep my perspective, reinforces what I already believed about human beings, mostly.  Which is what forums are probably all about.

                      I'll go away from this thread feeling a man who feels nothing for any animal is something worse than any animal, something more meaningless, more impotent than what people think of as evil. 

                      But that's the thinking I brought into thread, so I suppose it was all just a means of passing the time.

                      J

                      Absorb the good, ignore the bad, weigh the ugly.

                      It's about number behavior.

                      Egos don't count.

                       

                      Dedicated to the memory of Big Loooser

                       

                        justxploring's avatar - villiarna
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                        Posted: August 13, 2006, 3:16 pm - IP Logged

                        RipSnorter,

                        Anyone who has read even 1/3 of my posts knows I have a great sense of humor and your suggestion about racing chihuahuas and Rick G's post was very funny. I only stuck to the subject matter at hand, which was my disapproval of professional dog racing, because I didn't want to make light of an important problem. I doubt if Mike intended to start a debate here.

                        I feel very badly about what happened to Mike's dog and started to respond with sympathy and an explanation of why so many "pit" type dogs are aggressive, but didn't want to begin a whole new discussion. In short, my feeling is the same as it is about any killer, like a gun. Ya know the saying "guns don't kill, people do." Well, irresponsible people often train and breed dogs to be vicious. It's really a shame, because the American Pit Bull Terrier used to have the exact opposite reputation. Remember Petey on The Little Rascals?

                        Dogs love to compete and to please, as we can see all the time in our local parks. The agility competitions are exciting and fun to watch.  It's like anything else...when big money and profit are the bottom line, something that was once a harmless sport for the whole family turns into something ugly. I should limit my comments to 1 or 2 on a thread, because I start to repeat myself after a while.

                        Your comments about farm animals and lab testing are very true & I fully agree that we are hypocrites in one way or another. So we choose our friends and out battles, but we need to speak for those we can't.  All of us have our reasons for thinking the way we do and only a very small percentage are true to their causes. I know people who won't even wear leather shoes or carry a leather wallet and vegetarians who own leather couches.

                        "As for me, I appreciate the whole thing.  It helps me keep my perspective, reinforces what I already believed about human beings, mostly.  Which is what forums are probably all about."

                        You didn't say what that is. Doesn't sound too positive.  I don't think forums are necessarily about conflict or learning that the world stinks. I think they're about sharing. I'd like to believe that people are generally good, that we all share in this struggle to get from start to finish. Like the greyhounds, some make it, some don't. Some get fed well, some are abused. Some find loving homes, some are destroyed by them. The difference is that, in most case, people are the stronger species and, because of all our hardships, struggles and conflicts, perhaps we should do our best to relieve the suffering of other beings that unconditionally accept us, a quality almost non-existent in humans.

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                          Posted: August 13, 2006, 5:17 pm - IP Logged

                          RipSnorter,

                          Anyone who has read even 1/3 of my posts knows I have a great sense of humor and your suggestion about racing chihuahuas and Rick G's post was very funny. I only stuck to the subject matter at hand, which was my disapproval of professional dog racing, because I didn't want to make light of an important problem. I doubt if Mike intended to start a debate here.

                          I feel very badly about what happened to Mike's dog and started to respond with sympathy and an explanation of why so many "pit" type dogs are aggressive, but didn't want to begin a whole new discussion. In short, my feeling is the same as it is about any killer, like a gun. Ya know the saying "guns don't kill, people do." Well, irresponsible people often train and breed dogs to be vicious. It's really a shame, because the American Pit Bull Terrier used to have the exact opposite reputation. Remember Petey on The Little Rascals?

                          Dogs love to compete and to please, as we can see all the time in our local parks. The agility competitions are exciting and fun to watch.  It's like anything else...when big money and profit are the bottom line, something that was once a harmless sport for the whole family turns into something ugly. I should limit my comments to 1 or 2 on a thread, because I start to repeat myself after a while.

                          Your comments about farm animals and lab testing are very true & I fully agree that we are hypocrites in one way or another. So we choose our friends and out battles, but we need to speak for those we can't.  All of us have our reasons for thinking the way we do and only a very small percentage are true to their causes. I know people who won't even wear leather shoes or carry a leather wallet and vegetarians who own leather couches.

                          "As for me, I appreciate the whole thing.  It helps me keep my perspective, reinforces what I already believed about human beings, mostly.  Which is what forums are probably all about."

                          You didn't say what that is. Doesn't sound too positive.  I don't think forums are necessarily about conflict or learning that the world stinks. I think they're about sharing. I'd like to believe that people are generally good, that we all share in this struggle to get from start to finish. Like the greyhounds, some make it, some don't. Some get fed well, some are abused. Some find loving homes, some are destroyed by them. The difference is that, in most case, people are the stronger species and, because of all our hardships, struggles and conflicts, perhaps we should do our best to relieve the suffering of other beings that unconditionally accept us, a quality almost non-existent in humans.

                          You didn't say what that is. Doesn't sound too positive.  I don't think forums are necessarily about conflict or learning that the world stinks.

                           Positive or negative, I consider it realistic and merely neutral.  Anyone's welcome to assign a positive or negative value to what I've said, as it suits them.  For me, it's simply how things are.

                          I don't believe the world stinks.  I think the world's a great planet.

                          It's human beings doing the stinking. 

                          They're the only species on the planet blessed with the brainpower to care about other species.  They're the only species on the planet in a position to note the nest they're fouling.

                          So they do what they do by choice.  By conscious or tacit consent. 

                           perhaps we should do our best to relieve the suffering of other beings that unconditionally accept us, a quality almost non-existent in humans.

                          Ain't my job to try to change how others choose to define themselves.  I've got a full plate trying to keep my own life between the fences.  Being and remaining someone I can respect. 

                          The dogs, the vegitarians, the sacrificers of rats for eye-make-up, the savers and savees will just have to do what they think is best.

                           Jack

                          Absorb the good, ignore the bad, weigh the ugly.

                          It's about number behavior.

                          Egos don't count.

                           

                          Dedicated to the memory of Big Loooser

                           

                            justxploring's avatar - villiarna
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                            Posted: August 13, 2006, 8:35 pm - IP Logged

                            "It's human beings doing the stinking. "

                            Ah, you and Garcin from Satre's "No Exit" where he utters that famous line..

                            ...Hell is other people...

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                              Posted: August 13, 2006, 9:09 pm - IP Logged

                              "It's human beings doing the stinking. "

                              Ah, you and Garcin from Satre's "No Exit" where he utters that famous line..

                              ...Hell is other people...

                              I didn't exclude myself, justx.

                              I just don't happen to buy into dishonesty.  I've got plenty of other flaws to make up for it.

                              J

                              Absorb the good, ignore the bad, weigh the ugly.

                              It's about number behavior.

                              Egos don't count.

                               

                              Dedicated to the memory of Big Loooser