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Randomness of the lottery

Topic closed. 66 replies. Last post 9 years ago by psykomo.

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IS IT RANDOM OR NOT! ? This is the question ?

Absolutely random [ 25 ]  [40.32%]
Not random. [ 12 ]  [19.35%]
Something fishy going on? [ 14 ]  [22.58%]
These two lotteries are working together its fixed [ 4 ]  [6.45%]
Not Sure? [ 7 ]  [11.29%]
Total Valid Votes [ 62 ]  
Discarded Votes [ 2 ]  
Tenaj's avatar - michellea
Charlotte NC
United States
Member #17406
June 18, 2005
4053 Posts
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Posted: December 21, 2007, 5:28 pm - IP Logged

nanolike

You told us:

"Coin Toss I am only making a pOINT a serious one! The best point anyone has ever made on this site!"

That's pretty strong, arrogant, and boastful for someone who has been here all of three or four months and has all of 53 posts.

"When you gotta shoot, shoot, don't talk"

- Ely Wallach as Paco, The Good, the Bad, & the Ugly

(In other words, hit a jackpot, then expound...) 

The best "point" ever made on this site was an avatar that a member known as Rip Snorter had for a while, it was an animated depction of Sissyphus, and there is no better description of the lottery.

What?What happened to Rip Snorter Coin Toss?  Is he still a part of LP?

takeemtothebank

    Avatar
    NY
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    Member #23835
    October 16, 2005
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    Posted: December 21, 2007, 5:36 pm - IP Logged

    I can't answer you, because mine doesn't stink. Razz   You will probably really come up with some more colorful posts when I tell you that pre-tests throw off the randomness of the drawings, in my opinion.  If people think "what will be will be" and then human interference says "nope, not that one and that one" then how can anyone here use a system that chooses the next number when you don't know what next is.  If the FL Lottery, for example, has 5 pre-tests before the televised drawing and you have a list of combinations, then wouldn't it make sense to cross out 5 of them too? 

    (this time make it a peanut butter and banana sandwich on whole wheat with honey.  I don't eat roast beef.)

    I can't really answer you, because I don't know what it means when you say pre-tests "throw off the randomness"? Do they prevent things from being random? Do they make things more random? Is there a reason that either of those should be considerd a problem?

    If anything, pre-tests would make it easier to find any patterns that exist, because you're given more data.  If the lottery wants to be sure that the drawings are random  (and not being much of a conspiracy theorist, I'm assuming that is what they want), not only should they do pre-tests, they should do a random number of pre-tests. I don't doubt that the results are already random, but always having the same number of pre-teat results in a definite pattern to the pre-test and actual drawings, such as 5,1,5,1,5,1,5,1. 

    As far as crossing out 5 of your combinatons, what is the significance of them? If you think you can predict the results in order there would be no point to playing combinations that you believe are likely to come up during a pre-test, because you can't win anything. Of course that assumes that you know how many pre-tests there will be. OTOH, if you've accounted for the pre-tests (and it would be sensible to do that as well as possible) and you've got several combinations that you think are likely for the actual drawing, then it would be foolish to discard any of them.

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      NY
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      Posted: December 21, 2007, 5:40 pm - IP Logged

      That's like saying....on paper that mathematically, a bee can't fly. So just because another area of the subject might not warrant just cause, dosen't mean the underline is somehow invalid or incomplete.

      The author's lack of attention to detail in one or two areas does not define where the integrity lies . To me...the mere statement in the thread title tells my gut feeling that this was not some misinformed scam with an agenda.

      The old story about a proof that bumble bees can't fly is a myth, but suppose it were true? What would be the point in trying to refute it by throwing a fake bee in the air and claiming it's flying?  I have no idea what the author's intent or integrity is, but the author has acknowedged that the "data" presented is fictional. Perhaps the underlying belief is true, but there's no rational point in trying to support the belief with a fictitious "proof". So far, the author is just throwing up a bunch of BS and suggesting that turds can fly.

        Lotterologist's avatar - lightbulb
        Lotto City, Michigan
        United States
        Member #36256
        March 30, 2006
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        Posted: December 21, 2007, 5:42 pm - IP Logged

        Predicting the lottery, like predicting the weather, is not an exact science. To see the past, one must look deep into space...billions of light years away.

        To see the future, one must look deep inside of THEMSELVES.  

          Avatar
          NY
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          Posted: December 21, 2007, 5:43 pm - IP Logged

          "I brought proof, what did you bering nothing but your opinion!"

          Bull. You've brought a bunch of fictional numbers with nothing to back up your claims.  If you've got the proof tell us which lotteries the real non-random results are from.

            Avatar
            NY
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            Posted: December 21, 2007, 5:45 pm - IP Logged

            Predicting the lottery, like predicting the weather, is not an exact science. To see the past, one must look deep into space...billions of light years away.

            To see the future, one must look deep inside of THEMSELVES.  

            And that would put your head... where?

              Lotterologist's avatar - lightbulb
              Lotto City, Michigan
              United States
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              March 30, 2006
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              Posted: December 21, 2007, 5:47 pm - IP Logged

              That would put your head in a transcendental state. Big Smile

                Coin Toss's avatar - shape barbed.jpg
                Zeta Reticuli Star System
                United States
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                Posted: December 21, 2007, 6:47 pm - IP Logged

                Lotterologist 

                "Remember, there are people who can see into the future(psychics, prophets, e.t.c). Consider that when pondering the "randomness" of the lottery.

                I've known people who could dream a 3 or 4 digit combination and shortly afterwards, it would fall. If the lottery was truly random, how could they dream what the winning combination would be?"

                Does that necessarily cancel out the event being random, or just tell us that these people had a vision of the results of a random event?

                Art Bell of talk radio has said for years that he believes people who hit huige lotery jakcpots and do exceptionally well in the stock market are time travelers.  

                Those who run the lotteries love it when players look for consistency in something that's designed not to have any.

                Lep

                There is one and only one 'proven' system, and that is to book the action. No matter the game, let the players pick their own losers.


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                  Posted: December 21, 2007, 7:23 pm - IP Logged

                  I can't really answer you, because I don't know what it means when you say pre-tests "throw off the randomness"? Do they prevent things from being random? Do they make things more random? Is there a reason that either of those should be considerd a problem?

                  If anything, pre-tests would make it easier to find any patterns that exist, because you're given more data.  If the lottery wants to be sure that the drawings are random  (and not being much of a conspiracy theorist, I'm assuming that is what they want), not only should they do pre-tests, they should do a random number of pre-tests. I don't doubt that the results are already random, but always having the same number of pre-teat results in a definite pattern to the pre-test and actual drawings, such as 5,1,5,1,5,1,5,1. 

                  As far as crossing out 5 of your combinatons, what is the significance of them? If you think you can predict the results in order there would be no point to playing combinations that you believe are likely to come up during a pre-test, because you can't win anything. Of course that assumes that you know how many pre-tests there will be. OTOH, if you've accounted for the pre-tests (and it would be sensible to do that as well as possible) and you've got several combinations that you think are likely for the actual drawing, then it would be foolish to discard any of them.

                  Each tube has it's history and pattern whether it's yet developed and predictable. When the officials rotate the tubes, they don't inform what new positions they are in. New York used to show the orientation, but stopped around 10 years ago.

                  I don't feel that the premise being set here was just on whether the lottery is random or not. I'm pretty sure most everyone knows this. Just acknowledging the fact that quirks within any system exists is the real message. Random maybe random, but even randomness tweaks away from a linear way from time to time, an evenly distributed random pattern, or lack of....

                  If you read earlier, I mentioned RNDs. They are the ripples that disturb the signal. Like a fingerprint.

                  Pre-tests further the damage of the pre-existing fact of tube rotation. Might as well throw in the towel. What other disturbance or monkey wrench will they throw in?

                  They wouldn't be going through all of that trouble, just to satisfy people who want honesty, with practices such as pre-tests and rotations. Those reasons are all excuses as to why they really want to do those things. They want to disturb, as much as possible, the natural flow of random events.

                  In a N.Y. newspaper, an article stated that very thing. When an official was asked why they performed pre-tests and rotation, he said...."To eliminate as much possibility of a pattern emerging".

                  I wish I'd save the clip. Never thought I would actually need to...lol

                    JAP69's avatar - alas
                    South Carolina
                    United States
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                    November 4, 2001
                    8790 Posts
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                    Posted: December 21, 2007, 7:34 pm - IP Logged

                    SmileyThere are patterns in randomness.  For unknown reasons numbers move in circles, traveling with each other.  There's no explaination.  Just is.

                    Want to know what the patterns are - pay attention. 

                    I Agree!        pay attention

                     

                    Past Lottery Results for South Carolina Daily Numbers Games

                    This page displays past lottery results for Pick 3 and Pick 4 drawings in South Carolina.  Use the "breadcrumb" links above to go back to the previous view.

                     

                    Drawing DatePick 3Pick 4
                    MiddayEveningMiddayEvening
                    Fri, Dec 21, 20074-8-72-8-70-7-3-45-1-8-8
                    Thu, Dec 20, 20073-4-31-4-97-2-9-65-3-4-4
                    Wed, Dec 19, 20070-7-63-6-22-7-3-30-1-3-7
                    Tue, Dec 18, 20075-3-84-1-55-4-4-72-0-5-1
                    Mon, Dec 17, 20072-0-32-3-03-0-5-71-6-6-6
                    Sun, Dec 16, 20074-8-72-5-2-9
                    Sat, Dec 15, 20077-0-31-9-68-2-0-64-9-4-0
                    Fri, Dec 14, 20073-0-68-0-94-3-4-74-8-4-6
                    Thu, Dec 13, 20071-0-86-0-32-2-9-49-1-7-8
                    Wed, Dec 12, 20079-9-05-5-28-3-5-54-9-8-5

                    WHATT

                      Lotterologist's avatar - lightbulb
                      Lotto City, Michigan
                      United States
                      Member #36256
                      March 30, 2006
                      1472 Posts
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                      Posted: December 21, 2007, 9:07 pm - IP Logged

                      Lotterologist 

                      "Remember, there are people who can see into the future(psychics, prophets, e.t.c). Consider that when pondering the "randomness" of the lottery.

                      I've known people who could dream a 3 or 4 digit combination and shortly afterwards, it would fall. If the lottery was truly random, how could they dream what the winning combination would be?"

                      Does that necessarily cancel out the event being random, or just tell us that these people had a vision of the results of a random event?

                      Art Bell of talk radio has said for years that he believes people who hit huige lotery jakcpots and do exceptionally well in the stock market are time travelers.  

                      "Does that necessarily cancel out the event being random, or just tell us that these people had a vision of the results of a random event?"

                      Some would say that if the lottery is predictable, it is not random. I believe that nanolike alluded to that in his opening post.

                      If the winning combination can be consistantly predicted through logic, reasoning, dreams, visions, e.t.c, that would suggest that someone "broke the code" to the lottery.

                        Lotterologist's avatar - lightbulb
                        Lotto City, Michigan
                        United States
                        Member #36256
                        March 30, 2006
                        1472 Posts
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                        Posted: December 21, 2007, 10:05 pm - IP Logged

                        Coin Toss, your arguement holds no weight!

                        First off you may be under the impression that I am piecing my two drawings together looking for matches as I see fit! Or using numbers from several different lottery drawings. I am not, only two. Drawing 1 and Drawing 2. From two diffeent lotteries only!

                        As far as your comment "anyone could just about come up with any theory and keep data mining until it appeared they have found results that prove their theory" Really DO IT THEN! I challenge you to put your money where your mouth is!

                        First off understand something here. I am not fishing for patterns. The pattern which I have laid out in the two lotteries is a CONSISTANT thing, it never stops it keeps going on and on, its been going on for years. I challenge you or  ANYONE to find any two lotteries anywhere on this planet that have the same-like pattern occuring. I CHALLENGE everyone on Lottery Post to put your money where your mouth is!

                        If you think the pattern is random, prove their is another lottery doing the same.

                        Show me 2 lottery drawings which have the same occurance, If its random it must be occuring everywhere in many drawings if it random, since all the drawings in the world are random governed by its country. There must be another but simply dont make bold statements such as THE LOTTERY IS RANDOM, if you have no proof to back it up!

                         I am saying that these two lottery drawings prove it is not random! And you clain it is random by your words only with no proof that is random.

                        If so we should see this type of pattern everywhere not just in two drawings somewhere in the world. So show me 2 more drawings anywhere in the world from any section of date from any years where one lottery occures and the next drawing follows the 1st and produces the same exact pattern.

                        And your case for randomness will be founded on something other than YOUR own say so.

                        I brought proof, what did you bering nothing but your opinion!

                        Just because you say its random doesnt make it so!

                        3rdly Coin-Toss I am not just speaking to you but everyone who claims the lottery is random with no proof! You and everyone else who brings no proof are completely double talking, listen to your own words. And remember RANDOM means WITHOUT DESIGN!

                        Your words coin toss are" refering to the lottery drawing you say "it's DESIGNED to be random" how silly is that! How the hell do you DESIGN something to be something that it is  not!

                        Have we let these people fool us! At least Todd has a petition against computerized drawing! I wonder why?

                        It is either random or its not! PERIOD.

                        Now Here would be a more random drawing, place 49 holes or plastic rings under an big oak tree, as the wind blows or time allows leaves fall off of the tree they will fall to the ground eventually 6 leaves will fall where 49 rings are placed under the tree individual leaves will fall into 6 of the 49 holes or rings all numbered 1-49.

                        A camera would be set up to record this event and shown live just like when we watch a live football game the film would be watched by everyone. No closed doors no one to trust only a camera a tree and some wind! People would buy tickets and who ever picked the 6 holes or rings the leaf fell into wins the jackpot!

                        This game would be called MONEYTREE!

                         As silly as my illistration appears and as much as I know it most likely is not practical it would not be by design of a computer programer and would not be behind closed doors it wold be random other than some holes or rings on the ground at the bottom of the tree. Thats it!

                        The lottery would be based on mothernature not some organization conducting what they call a random event behind closed doors where you must take their word on it!

                        Coin-Toss your own words bite back at you, you say ITS DESIGND TO BE RANDOM!

                        If its designed its not random.

                        Random Is without design,

                        Now dont get me wrong I realize that placing 49 rings under  a tree also would be somewhat by design yet no one created a software program that selects the winning numbers.

                        Another way might be to set up a glass see-through booth and have someone step inside and grab 6 dollar bills and place them into a belt. When six dollar bills were grabed they would step out of the booth, those dollars bills notes would have a seriel number on them, that seriel number on the note matches a number on a chart 1 through 49. This is how they do it on game shows where someone steps into the booth and grabs money flying around, Thats random! Because the person would have no idea which seriel numbers matched the 1 through 49 numbers on the chart.

                        And its hard to catch a dollar, if you dont believe me have a friend hold a dollar in the air right between your thumb and index finger and let go of the bill, you try and grab it! Not easy to do. Having wind blowing the dollars around makes it very difficult to predict which dollar you might grab and not knowing which seriel numbersgoes with which numbers on the chart makes it random.

                        But having a machine draw numbers that has been DESIGNED to behave in a random way thatwas programed by a software developer is so far away from being random its pathetic!

                        No more random than a search engine that brings up a word you search for.

                        So the lottery is not random occording to my 2 drawings. NOT EVEN CLOSE!

                        What we've all done is simply accepted one way of conducting a lottery instead of being imaginative! Each country, or state could do it their own way! Its their lottery drawing! They dont all have to be the same.

                        We could all make it fun as long as it is random as I have laid out here.

                        But for you to say the lottery is random the way it is conducted now is a lie!

                        Therfor to claim any lottery of today is random is a lie!

                        Which is my point!

                        But you claimed it was random, and it is not occording to the definition!

                        The lottery is not random. It is a FIXED GAME, it is DESIGNED to look random would be a better way of saying it.

                        Now for my two drawings, I have showed an unbelievable pattern, A pattern mind you which I again challenge ANYONE ON LOTTERY POST tO show me another pattern as I have laid out, and remember my pattern is NOT CLOSE as Coin-toss suggested it was like in horse-shoes. Mine is EXACT!

                        Each drawing occured directly after the other! Dont let the dates fool you, Each drawing is directly after the other not ten days after or befere. Not another draw in between, not 2 days after then the next drawing 11 days after as if I were trying to find a pattern.

                        The 1st drawing occurs on its scheduled date and right after the 2nd occurs right after the 1st drawing. EACH LINE in my drawings stay true to its scheduled date never faulering.

                        check it again.

                        You will find if you look at the dates in the first that they occure before each drawing occured in the 2nd not after in some and then before in others!

                        It is the most absolute prove the world has ever seen of a lottery being rigged! And you all think its random.

                         

                        Coin Toss I am only making a pOINT a serious one! The best point anyone has ever made on this site!

                        O understand I was longwinded but Again I challenge anyone on this site or looking at this site to find a same-like pattern in any two lottery drawings!

                        I'll be waiting!

                        Whether the lottery is random or not, all depends on your perspective. To Yao Ming, I am short, but to Gary Coleman, i'm tall. The UNIVERSE was "designed", yet on a quantum scale it appears "random". 

                        It's Yin and Yang. I'm looking at both sides now. Smile

                        "I've looked at life from both sides now

                         From win and lose, but still somehow

                         It's life's illusion, I recall

                         I really don't know life at all" ----Joni Mitchell 

                          Avatar
                          Kentucky
                          United States
                          Member #32652
                          February 14, 2006
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                          Posted: December 21, 2007, 11:16 pm - IP Logged

                          I beleive lotto officials look close to see if pattens start to emerge. When they do, it calls for action to make the lottery random once more. I think that they change balls and machines constantly to avoid patterns to try and make it as random as possible again. I used to create charts on graph paper, months worth of them, to try and find patterns and everytime I saw a pattern forming, the next days drawing was totally ascued from what should have happened, even though past patterns showing similar results would prove me right. The eye in the sky is watching the lotto (aka ..lotto officials and their mathematicians/numerologists and what not) and will do everything in their power to keep the odds in their favor. This is just what I believe and not pointing any fingers because its just speculation. Just how I feel, that' all and is just my opinion. I've seen it happen over and over again to sense that something is just not right which is why I'm onto a new way of picking numbers NOT based on patterns(PATTERN ARE PREDICTABLE- and the lotto knows this)... but I will never post this new way of picking my numbers because they are reading this now..Oh God ... have I become that paranoid! LOL .. obladee oblada.. life goes ooo-oon... heh. I'll be taking more money from the lotto now, Thank you ! KA-CHING! ... ROFL

                          And now for a quick joke...

                           

                          A man bursts into his house and yells, "Pack your bags, Honey, I just won the lottery!"

                          She says, "Oh, wonderful! Should I pack for the beach or for the mountains?"

                          He replies, "I don't care ... Just get the hell out!"

                          "I think that they change balls and machines constantly to avoid patterns to try and make it as random as possible again."

                          In most pick-3 drawings they use 3 sets of 10 numbered balls (0-9), put each set into 1 of 3 clear plastic containers, and mix them up using a forced air and maybe a devise to stir them up.  There is a covered tube at the top of each container that when uncovered allows one of those balls to enter the tube, the cover is closed and that ball becomes one of the winning digits. And the order of the digits is determined left to right as we view it; the left container has the first digit, middle the second and right is third.

                          In the next draw, they decide to switch 1, 2, or all 3 of the balls sets and maybe switch the containers too. In the next drawing the left container and the 10 balls inside it are changed, but each new ball has the same 1 in 10 chance of being drawn as the different set of balls they used in a different container in the previous draw.

                          Over the years they could use 100s of different balls sets even with different colors, but as long as each ball set has 10 balls numbered from 0 to 9, each ball has the same chance of reaching the top of the tube first. What makes the drawings fair is that each ball has an equal chance of reaching the top of the tube first. What makes the drawings random is what happens between the time the force air is turned on and a ball reaches the top of the tube.

                          Ohio has used different methods for pick-5 drawings; all five balls entering one tube, one at a time and a container with five separate tubes. But either way, they are still drawing only 5 balls and each ball has the same chance of being drawn.

                          "and everytime I saw a pattern forming, the next days drawing was totally ascued from what should have happened, even though past patterns showing similar results would prove me right."

                          How could the next drawing be different if they drew one ball from each of the 3 sets of balls?

                          "which is why I'm onto a new way of picking numbers NOT based on patterns(PATTERN ARE PREDICTABLE- and the lotto knows this)... but I will never post this new way of picking my numbers because they are reading this now.."

                          ROFL

                            four4me's avatar - gate1
                            MD
                            United States
                            Member #1701
                            June 18, 2003
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                            Posted: December 21, 2007, 11:55 pm - IP Logged

                            You only think you see patterns when you see numbers appear more frequently as a pattern. Your thought process makes you think patterns are forming. You might want to believe there are patterns if for some reason they used the same balls over and over consistently and for whatever reason certain balls had a better chances of being drawn over other balls. But it's still random or coincidence.

                            You could even track how many times each ball was drawn this year and in previous years just because certain balls were drawn more than other balls doesn't mean the same balls will be drawn with the same predictability next year as they did in previous years. In fact I'm will to bet they average themselves out somewhat from year to year and over the years. Lending themselves to randomness.  

                              Coin Toss's avatar - shape barbed.jpg
                              Zeta Reticuli Star System
                              United States
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                              Posted: December 22, 2007, 12:11 am - IP Logged

                              Good points four4me.

                              Folks, you ever notice that when you're thinking of buying a certain model car you start seeing them all over the place? Think a few thousand more of them hit your town after you started thinking about them?

                              No, not at all, the only thing different is since you're thinking of that model (substitute numbers, patterns here) you start seeing them. There's nothing at all different about how many of those cars are on the road (or numbers are drawn). 

                              Those who run the lotteries love it when players look for consistency in something that's designed not to have any.

                              Lep

                              There is one and only one 'proven' system, and that is to book the action. No matter the game, let the players pick their own losers.