There is new discussion in the Tennessee Legislature about the possibility of the state lottery going back to using ping-pong balls to select the Cash 3 and Cash 4 winners.
In 2007, a computer programming error prevented anyone who played repeated digits, such as two fives in a row, from winning.
The error was discovered Aug. 20 when lottery officials contacted the system designer, Smartplay, about their concerns.
The lottery is asking Smartplay, and the company that certified the system, Gaming Laboratories, to pay nearly $1.5 million in damages.
House Minority Leader Jason Mumpower said the glitches caused players to lose confidence in the lottery, and he thinks the way to restore trust is to ditch the computers and go back to picking balls that have numbers on them.
"In my 12 years of service in the House of Representatives, the only other issue I've heard this much about is a state income tax," said Mumpower.
An audit that was released by the state on March 18 said the 2007 computer error was preventable and the lottery wasn't prepared to catch such a mistake.
Mumpower said the audit only reinforces that a change is needed.
"Over two million tickets were sold that were worthless, but only 700,000 of those were able to be refunded because people had thrown their tickets away, so we had Tennesseans that lost money," said Mumpower.
Gov. Phil Bredesen said the issue would have to be looked at closely since he did not think lawmakers should overstretch their boundaries.
"I think they should adopt a moderate managerial attitude here and maybe express their concerns, adopt a resolution, but leave it to the lottery board that they created to make these decisions about how to operate the lottery day-to-day," said Bredesen.
Lottery officials said going back to the ping-pong balls has a $5 million price tag. The Tennessee Lottery has only generally described how they came up with that figure, mostly involving television costs.
Tennessee Lottery CEO Rebecca Hargrove did not provide a price tag of conducting ball drawings using alternative broadcast methods, such as Web-based broadcasts. It is widely known that Web-based broadcasts are far less expensive than traditional television, and the number of people with Internet access in the state is likely close to the number of people with televisions.
Lawmakers also discuss changing lotto scholarships
Members of the Senate Education Committee on Wednesday discussed compromise legislation that would phase in a plan to lower the cumulative grade point average needed to maintain a lottery scholarship.
The measure would be part of a bill proposed by Republican Education Chairwoman Jamie Woodson of Knoxville.
Under current rules, a student must be enrolled full time in college, have a GPA of at least 2.75 after their freshman year and a cumulative 3.0 GPA for subsequent years to keep the scholarship.
An education subcommittee had previously proposed lowering the retention GPA to 2.75 through a student's junior year, then bumping it back up to 3.0 the senior year.
But Sen. Joe Haynes was among some on the committee on Wednesday who want the GPA to stay at 2.75.
"I've come to think ... that a 3.0 in high school is really equivalent to a 2.75 at the college level," the Goodlettsville Democrat said. "For that reason, I think we're penalizing our students."
Sen. Bill Ketron, who is an education subcommittee member, says the phase-in proposal is better because of tight budget projections. He said the state has about $23 million in recurring lottery money to work with and permanently reducing the retention GPA would cost roughly $17 million.
"We only have so many dollars," said the Murfreesboro Republican on Wednesday.
The Senate Education Committee is expected to take up Woodson's bill again next week, and Haynes said at that time he will recommend making the 2.75 retention GPA permanent.
Many lawmakers on both sides of the aisle, as well as Gov. Phil Bredesen, believe reducing the GPA would allow more students to keep the scholarships.
But opponents have said dropping it would lower education standards and reflect badly on a state that perennially ranks in the lower percentile when it comes to education.
Figures released earlier this year by the Tennessee Higher Education Commission helped change some minds. THEC reported that 50 percent of students lost their lottery HOPE scholarships after their first year in college and 68 percent by their fourth year.
Even though the subcommittee proposal doesn't include a student's senior year, Ketron believes it would still make a difference.
"Usually by your senior year, you know how to study, you know what you're going to do and where you're going," he said. "And hopefully those courses are a little bit easier than they were your sophomore and junior years."
Later Wednesday, House Education Committee Chairman Les Winningham delayed action on a proposal to keep the retention GPA at 2.75. The Huntsville Democrat said he doesn't like the idea of phasing it in.
"I think we set it at 2.75 and we keep it there," he said.
Dropping computer drawings and returning to live ball drawings would go a long way in regaining the faith of lottery players.Getting rid of Rebecca Hargrove would go even further.
As much as I think that Rebecca did a great job getting the TN lottery up and running in a short amount of time, she has now cashed it all of her credibility, and so I second the motion for her resignation. All in favor, say aye...
Who are they going to pay it too.
earlier this month this happened.....
funny thing is i bet the tennessee lottery let it slip on by but i caught on.
even if they only broadcast the ball draws on the internet and not on television i'd still be happy.just bring back the balls....and get rid of the witch.
I hope you're send this info to the legislators mentioned in the story (and in past stories). They can use this when pushing for the change.
They need all of our help to make it happen .... get involved!
Amen to that.
The only problem I would have with Rebecca Hargrove being replaced is that the Iowa Lottery might try to recruit her since Iowas lottery head just retired.I hope they promote from within.
Hey TN,
When you do go to Natural Ball Drawn Numbers, send me that PC you've been using to pick those Unnatural Computer Generated Number. I want to reverse engineer / decomplie the code used to pick those wack numbers. Maybe see if there is something on there that shouldn't be on there, you-know-what-i'm-sayin'... or at least you should... know-what-i'm-sayin'...
...you'll find out. 
This article is a little scary. It makes me feel bad that the elected officials cant work together to solve this matter. Jason Mumpower is on the right tract. Gov. Phil Bredesen should realize it's the people who play the lottery and they should have had a say so in the mater. The lawmakers agreed to a lottery and now he doesn't want them to be a part of reorganizing the lottery drawings. The people depend on the lawmakers to make decisions for them when they do not have a direct say so in the matter. The people cant force Hargrove to switch back to ball drawings. Only elected officials can.
Hargrove is at the helm of the lottery but should not be in total control. She switched lottery drawings from real ball drawings to computerized drawing without so much as a hint to lottery players prior to doing so. Except for a one line sentence buried inside another article on their web page a statement was made about an exciting new way to draw the numbers and that was it. DONE and implemented. Many lottery players are opposed to computers drawing numbers. I know she is aware of that. And it is probably one of the reasons she didn't bother to let the general public in on her desire to switch from ball drawings the computerized drawings. She knew the outcome would be not to switch drawing types.
Regardless of her intentions she jumped the gun implemented computerized drawings and because of her hastily decision to do so caused the lottery to conduct drawings without extensive testing of the software that produces the numbers and we all know what happen next. That software was defective and a programing error cause a glitch which went unnoticed for weeks. She put the blame on everyone but herself.
Now for the main reason to switch back to real live ball drawings. The software can be manipulated at the push of a button they can control the outcome of a drawing. There is no way of knowing if the software is corrupted on any given day. The players don't want computers drawing the numbers. Find some way of conducting real live ball drawings and get back to the business at hand. Making money for the Tennessee schooling programs.
Find and or seek out ways to conduct live ball drawings in a cost effective manner like other states that have live ball drawings. Hargrove is a member of the lottery association she can confer with them for tips on how to conduct ball drawings.
Many thanks to House Minority Leader Jason Mumpower for looking into this matter and doing his best to help get things back to normalcy.
personally i can't stand Gov. Phil Bredesen.for one he took away a half million peoples health insurance here including people with epilepsy,cancer,etc. including me when i was sick myself at the time.he completely ignores things he doesn't want to bother with or dismisses them without looking into it further.the statement about him makes me think he'll be the roadblock in the whole deal.i wish bredesen would just step back and let other people handle this and go take care of other issues.
I have to say that he is the best govenor that I have seen in TN. He is FOR the state. He has to be the one to make the tough choices. He is correct in his statement ..let the lottery commission do their job. Instead of getting mired down in the lottery mess, the legislature could give them a list of questions to investigate. The first question on the list I would give them is how does using balls costs 5 million more per year? Is that the salaries of the people who draw the balls? If it is, I WANT that job! If it is television, they should be able to work that out so the cost is lower. They only use about 1-1:30 minutes of television time with the computers giving the drawings but they run MORE commercials. Commercials cost money.
Every lottery has operating expenses and thats where the committee should start trimming the fat and finding ways to conduct live ball lottery drawings that are cost effective. Hargrove claims that they have conducted drawings in the past and had several TV stations in on the deal this isn't necessary as they only need one station to conduct the drawing and the rest of the stations that are willing could just post the numbers in a little box one the right hand portion of the TV screen during the preempted show that airs shortly after the drawing occurs.
Thats just great at a time when Tennesseans need his support and he might possibly take notice of these posts. I would think since you detest computerized drawings so much that you and all Tennesseans might want to convince the governor of that, instead you berate him publicly.
Mike you have to remember ultimately it's the people that have the power but in order to get them to implement change you must stick together and act as one voice.
aye
I would love to have that job too at that pay.
As for commercials costing...
Isn't commercials just advertising that have to pay big bucks during the time people watch TV the most. I would say that an advertising would cost more around the time they were about to drop the balls. Would you not think so?
Think about the Super Bowl commercials... They are the highest paid commericals in a year.
With that being said... the ball droppings for the TV station should be free and those who are advertising around that time slot should be more expensive.
I hope the Tennessee Lottery is able to secure a director and staff which will
(1) listen to player input
(2) listen to player input [not a typo]
(3) assure all aspects of its operations are transparent to reinvent its image, restore player confidence in its honesty.
I seen this posted before but I never really noticed it until now. I see more then just you seen and caught it because of the payouts going up on each draw. I wish I had seen it or caught it but since they changed to the computer I really couldn't care for the TN lottery. I still track doubles on pick three but that's about it.
While you don't normally expect to see repeating digits or numbers in computerized drawings they do occur just like ball drawings. Some people play what could be called a back up bet. They play the last number that came out hoping for such an occurrence. Seemed like it worked out very well for some people since the payout grew for the third draw. I'm not condoning computerized drawings by a long shot. It could also have been a software hiccup. Since theoretically it's not supposed to happen as the seed program should have created a different number for each draw.
I have a friend who made a homemade RNG box from parts bought a radio shack and whenever we played with it we rarely got the same number to come up twice in a row and i cant remember if it ever came up 3 times in a row. The same numbers did come up boxed or straight in a series of draws which we blew off as an anomaly.
Now considering that Tennessee uses this rng software and they do pre draws and tests. In actuality the number that we are discussing didn't come up three times in a row it came up three time during a sequence of draws. Which is a far cry from three draws in a row. Now whether that is normal or not can be disputed. But not verified. This is just another reason in along line of reasons why Tennessee should bring back the mechanical ball drawings. As seeing is believing and computers leave doubts in the players minds.
Are the live drawings programing, commercials, or both?
I think they are both and might even profit the lottery because when people change channels to watch the drawings, they will see the commercials at end of the previous show and will see the commercials before the next show while they are checking their tickets. Jeopardy is on after the drawing on the TV station I watch and the station will scroll the numbers on the bottom of the screen after the first commercial break while the contestants are being interviewed for the people that might have missed the drawing.
There probably is an extra cost to the lottery for buying and maintaining equipment and that should be examined if a state lottery always used computer drawings. But since Tennessee had problems and player distrust after they switch to RNG drawings, the extra cost would be well worth it.
IF TN. is going to sell $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
"BOOTLEG" Balls"
They should cut Lotto ticket PRICE'$$$$
in>>>>>>>>HALF
BUT and remember there is ALWAY's a BUTT out there............
U-get watcha U
PAY>>>>>>FOR!!!
PSYKOMO
This is just gibberish to me...might as well be talking in martian.
I don't know about other places, but in Michigan when they had the ball drawings, they did them between the 7 and 7:30 shows (Wheel of Fortune and Jeopardy) and Jeopardy started up right after the drawing, so no time for commercials. Besides, the commercials would be for the benefit of the stations, not the lottery. The lottery has to pay for that minute or so of airtime because it's time that would otherwise be set aside for commercials. I still don't see how it would cost $5 million to have a little 30 second - 1 minute drawing. There has to be a way to cheaply produce something like that. You shouldn't really even need a host, so to speak. Just show the numbers being drawn and have a voice stating what they are. Voices are a lot cheaper than regular hosts. Heck, maybe somebody from the lottery office could provide the voice as part of his or her job without the lottery having to pay a dime more. Just a thought.
Tennessee was putting out big bucks for live drawings because they had several TV stations televising the drawings at the same time. I think it was like 5 stations. No wonder the bill was high.
I still say Tennessee lottery only needs one station to host the drawing and the others can show the results on their screens in a little box like other state lottery's do.
does new hampshire have computerized drawing.i sent a email to the lottery commissinor she said they were not and also they would stay with 2 draws a day on the pick 4 and 3 which really thows off the odds
Under "Results" ...... top menu bar ....... go to "State Lottery Report Card" for a rundown of evey lottery.
I totally agree! People who want to watch "Deal or No Deal" know where to find it! The same would be for the lottery drawings. I do not like Bredesen's response to the legislature's intervention in the computerized drawings, from the first coverage of Bredesen introducing Hargrove and defending her outrageous salary!! The 5 million dollar figure is bogus propaganda to try and keep it her way. The software is crap! That was proven from the beginning when it was so quickly compromised! I suspect Hargrove had her palm greased for securing that contract!
I dont think the lotteries are anywhere near stupid enough to deliberately risk anything that keeps drawings from being random, but the idea of reverse engineering the code brings up an important point. Any code used for lottery drawings, voting, or anything else that requires transparency and public trust should be readily available to anyone who wants to examine it.
Any code used for lottery drawings, voting, or anything else that requires transparency and public trust should be readily available to anyone who wants to examine it.
Exactly,so when can we be invited to see how this thing works everyday?
There is an upside to this - this may put an end to computerized drawings once and for all!!
Wheel and Jeopardy are on the Cleveland station at the same time too. If the 7:29 live drawing is advertising, it's the only commercial that people regularly change channels to watch when it is aired. The local TV stations probably had to bid for the right to air the live drawings and the lottery pays the production cost.
"I still don't see how it would cost $5 million to have a little 30 second - 1 minute drawing."
If that is the annual cost, the daily cost would be about $13,500 at 7 drawings a week.
Some time ago the Tennessee lottery had a short video about the computerized drawings it showed the whole process from beginning to end.
He's specifically referring to being allowed to see the code that's responsible for the drawings. Using a computer program to draw the numbers without letting the public see the code is analgous to doing ball drawings where the only part visible to anyone but the manufacturer of the machine is the rack the selected balls end up in after popping out of the mixing chamber. Every once in a while one of the balls doesn't make it into the mixing chamber for one reason or another, but the problem (if not the reason for the problem) can be seen. If there's a minor bug in the software that results in a non-random result occurring, even if only on very rare occasions, it could be impossible to be sure from the results.
Since lotteries are expected to produce results that are very unlikely, statistical analysis isn't necessarily a good way to determine if there is a problem. A problem that prevents repeat numbers in P3 or P4 will be suggested early, and become increasingy likely in a bit more time. The actual results in TN, while very unlikely, are certainly possible and therefore don't offer absolute proof that there was a problem.
Why a state lottery would buy software for drawings and not require that the source code be made available is completely beyond me.
How about so people can't use the code to predict the numbers? In the computer world there's basically no such thing as random numbers. If the source code were available, people would be able to reconstruct the number generator and see what the next result would be. Not only that, but the company that made the software would basically be giving the blue prints for their product away to the world!
Right you are the source code is proprietary information.
I would like to know how much money other states are paying to show they draws. I think the best thing TN could have done to cut the cost was just air the drawing on their website, that way they don't have to pay any tv time. The get the numbers broadcasted for free during the news so if anyone wanted to see the draw they could watch it online. I don't even know why I mentioned this because TN is going to do whatever the %$#@ they want to do. I'm getting tired of TN lottery and I'm not going to post any more predictions or track TN any more. The only game I'm going to play is Powerball in TN. If KY didn't have state taxes I would play Powerball there.
Do you think the lotteries just go down to Best Buy and pick up a copy of "RNG for Lotto" and then leave it running (with all default settings unchanged), only drawing a set of numbers when they need one for a real drawing? If it's good RNG program, the only way to predict the numbers would be to exactly replicate all of the conditions required for the generation of the drawing. Each drawing will be a unique event using a new seed, and there won't be any "next" result to predict. That the numbers might not truly be random isn't important. What matters is that they are unpredictable. Having the source code won't allow you to predict the numbers any more than having a copy of the program. What can be done with the source code is checking for bugs, unexpected results, or deliberate but unsanctioned actions.
As far as "giving the blue prints for their product away to the world" that's exactly what companies do when they get a patent. Not making plans or source code available makes it slightly less convenient to duplicate a given product or program, but does nothing to provide the legal protection of a patent or copyright. If a program is unique enough that revealing the source code is a real security issue it will be easy enough for the company to identify programs that violate their patents or copyrights. If it's easy to do the same thing without violating the patents or copyrights, then there's no risk in releasing the source code. Either way, in the case of a work for hire, the person contracting for the work owns the rights, assuming they want them. A company certainly doesn't have to agree to produce a program if they have to make the source code available (or the find any other terms unacceptable), but nobody has to buy a product if they don't get everything they want. If the government wants a program that includes the source code they shouldn't have any trouble finding a company who will agree to the requirements.
IT would-DA>>>could-DA>>>should-DA>>>...............BUT,.....?????????
WILL the people CALL-E-mail-TALK to there state officials,.....?????????
OTHERWISE<<<<<<<<<<<<IT will just blow-by & B business/USUAL!!!
IF the people in TN. donot SPEACK-OUT>>>>>>>>>
LOL
PSYKOMO
I am new to lotterypost and I thought I was the only person waisting my time with the TN lottery. they finally let 361 fall. You have a better chance at going with a quick pick. I save every ticket that I play with TN lottery because I want to be fully reimbursed.