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How to Prove Your Lottery IS Fixed?

Topic closed. 49 replies. Last post 8 years ago by CurtisC.

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Posted: August 29, 2008, 7:29 pm - IP Logged

Yeah, I think most lotteries do their 'fixing' via the payout ratios.

Thing is, without paper ballots... er... mechanical drawings, you can't know for sure that what is drawn has no relation to how heavily the non-winning numbers were bet.

In neo-conned Amerika, bank robs you.
Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms should be the name of a convenience store, not a govnoment agency.


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    Posted: August 29, 2008, 11:11 pm - IP Logged

    The real culprit is the ball machine, not computer programs.

    With all the pretests, rotating of the tubes, and rotation of sets of tubes, my belief is that in itself ruins any history of a particular tube, because we are not told what the results of the pretests, and the new rotation positions are.

    I wish I had saved the article from the N.Y daily news, back when I was living there 10 years ago. There was an item written about the rotations in the N.Y. games. When the official in the news article was asked why they did all those rotations of tubes, he answered..."To help avoid any patterns that might form" (paraphrasing).

    Why do you think in some cases an overdue number in the first position in the p-3 or p-4 dosen't show for very long periods? That overdue number came out during a pretest or also in other pretests, and then here I sit scratching my head wondering why it's taking 2 months for the number 8 to come out in the first position....lol

    I'd win atleast 10 times more often if they'd just leave the damned machines alone.

    I hear people around me in defense of the legitamacy of pretests. They claim that they need to do this in order to make sure the machine is functioning properly. WELL>>>>>>DUH ! ! ! If the machine is ready to break down, it won't matter how many pretests you do, it'll break ! ! Not only that, but by doing pretests, isn't it self destructive? Aren't they helping the wear and tear process by doing pretests? Makes no sense.

     

    I don't buy it for one second.

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      Posted: August 30, 2008, 12:15 am - IP Logged

      "...Why do you think in some cases an overdue number in the first position in the p-3 or p-4 dosen't show for very long periods? That overdue number came out during a pretest or also in other pretests, and then here I sit scratching my head wondering why it's taking 2 months for the number 8 to come out in the first position....lol..."

      I don't know anything about pretests, only that they are done: So are you saying that if a ball is drawn first position during pretest, they throw it out... or the effect of pretest has some a bearing on the ball being drawn in first position? Thx.


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        Posted: August 30, 2008, 12:32 am - IP Logged

        "...Why do you think in some cases an overdue number in the first position in the p-3 or p-4 dosen't show for very long periods? That overdue number came out during a pretest or also in other pretests, and then here I sit scratching my head wondering why it's taking 2 months for the number 8 to come out in the first position....lol..."

        I don't know anything about pretests, only that they are done: So are you saying that if a ball is drawn first position during pretest, they throw it out... or the effect of pretest has some a bearing on the ball being drawn in first position? Thx.

        So are you saying that if a ball is drawn first position during pretest, they throw it out...

         

        Yes, It isn't used. It's just to see if the machine works, which makes no sense. As if by doing pretests, you're somehow thwarting a possiblility for the machine to break down during the next drawing....lol If the machine is gonna break, it'll break. Believe me...I worked on Navy airplanes and they broke down despite all the repairs....lol

         

        or the effect of pretest has some a bearing on the ball being drawn in first position? Thx.

        Yes again. If an overdue number is destined to come out during a relatively expected period, but shows up during a pretest, what good is it?

        We're never told if it came out.

        Back in N.Y. at one time, they used to reveal the tube rotaion schedule, but stopped...hmmmmmm....I wonder why.....

          dvdiva's avatar - 8ball

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          Posted: August 30, 2008, 12:34 am - IP Logged

          The biggest problem would be scratch tickets. The most common problem would be selling tickets after the jackpot has been won or being very slow to publish that the winning ticket(s) have been sold. Even in WA state tickets are sold for games where the advertised jackpot has already been won.

            four4me's avatar - gate1
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            Posted: August 30, 2008, 12:35 am - IP Logged
            Pre test are done as part of the security process x amount of pretests are done then the actual drawing then additional test to confirm that all things were working properly and that the same numbers weren't drawn over and over in order. And that no tampering took place.
             
            It is done for the integrity of the game. These pre test are recorded usually by cam recorder for the auditors as well.

            Big John says. You don't hit the number. The number hits you!!!!

                           I'm not Big John, I'm Four4me, Big John's a friend.

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              Posted: August 30, 2008, 12:43 am - IP Logged
              Pre test are done as part of the security process x amount of pretests are done then the actual drawing then additional test to confirm that all things were working properly and that the same numbers weren't drawn over and over in order. And that no tampering took place.
               
              It is done for the integrity of the game. These pre test are recorded usually by cam recorder for the auditors as well.

              Doesen't matter whether it was by construct or deceptive means, it still disrupts the actual flow of the game.

              I'd rather chance the remote possibility of tampering,than fouling the whole thing up.

              The so called security process is just a guise.

                four4me's avatar - gate1
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                Posted: August 30, 2008, 1:00 am - IP Logged

                Doesen't matter whether it was by construct or deceptive means, it still disrupts the actual flow of the game.

                I'd rather chance the remote possibility of tampering,than fouling the whole thing up.

                The so called security process is just a guise.

                whatever........... i was on the phone with the people about this very thing today concerning the numbers 099 being drawn in a midday drawing two days in a row.

                For the reason i stated in the above post it has been done this way for a long time and is a standard practice in many states.

                We may not like the fact that they do pre tests but as long as there's a remote possibility that tampering might have / may have taken place since the last draw was preformed. They will continue this practice.

                Big John says. You don't hit the number. The number hits you!!!!

                               I'm not Big John, I'm Four4me, Big John's a friend.
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                  Posted: August 30, 2008, 1:46 am - IP Logged

                  The real culprit is the ball machine, not computer programs.

                  With all the pretests, rotating of the tubes, and rotation of sets of tubes, my belief is that in itself ruins any history of a particular tube, because we are not told what the results of the pretests, and the new rotation positions are.

                  I wish I had saved the article from the N.Y daily news, back when I was living there 10 years ago. There was an item written about the rotations in the N.Y. games. When the official in the news article was asked why they did all those rotations of tubes, he answered..."To help avoid any patterns that might form" (paraphrasing).

                  Why do you think in some cases an overdue number in the first position in the p-3 or p-4 dosen't show for very long periods? That overdue number came out during a pretest or also in other pretests, and then here I sit scratching my head wondering why it's taking 2 months for the number 8 to come out in the first position....lol

                  I'd win atleast 10 times more often if they'd just leave the damned machines alone.

                  I hear people around me in defense of the legitamacy of pretests. They claim that they need to do this in order to make sure the machine is functioning properly. WELL>>>>>>DUH ! ! ! If the machine is ready to break down, it won't matter how many pretests you do, it'll break ! ! Not only that, but by doing pretests, isn't it self destructive? Aren't they helping the wear and tear process by doing pretests? Makes no sense.

                   

                  I don't buy it for one second.

                  And you shouldn't buy it! Here is something from a lottery that does the test more than anyone that I can find that does do the test before the official ball drawing....

                  Lotto Texas ® Pre-test Results

                  A pre-test is an unofficial drawing that tests the machine and the ball set used for a Lotto Texas drawing. Pre-tests ensure that the drawing machine is working well and that balls are drawn in a random way.
                   
                  The Texas Lottery performs at least six pre-tests before every Lotto Texas drawing. A Lotto Texas ball set passes the pre-tests if the same ball is not drawn five or more times. If any Lotto Texas ball is drawn six times, the entire ball set fails and is removed from the machine and replaced by the alternate ball set.
                   
                  When a ball set does not pass the pre-tests, more pre-tests are performed to test the alternate ball set. The second set(s) of pre-tests are shown in RED .
                   
                  In the case of a discrepancy between the pre-test results listed on this Web Site and the official pre-test records, the official records prevail. Asterisks (*) mark the machine and ball set used for the drawing.
                  I went to their site just to see when the last time that the balls needed to be changed out because of the ball(s) not being drawn in a random enough way..... well that was 12/20/2006 when that happened! I didn't see any reason to check the rest of the years they have listed, for the simple fact that it had been so long since it happened. I can bet it is so rare that it really doesn't justify the test draws or at least that many test draws! 
                  In my book All they are doing is wasting a ton of good numbers that people may have had as their numbers that now will not be drawn again for god only knows how many years down the road if at all again in their life time! And that's just not right!!!!!   

                  Keep dreaming the impossible dream, it just may come true! Thumbs Up

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                    Posted: August 30, 2008, 1:59 am - IP Logged

                    Maybe you can enlighten me on several things, KY Floyd because these are things I do not know:

                    One, what are all the costs and the amounts of such in a drawing involving the balls as opposed to the computer?  Weren't televised drawings the best way to assure ticket buyers or the public that the lotteries were run fairly and squarely?

                    Two, why not avoid TV advertising costs by making it able to be viewed on the internet if that happens to be such a huge cost?  

                    Three, what percentage are those particular expenses against the profit made in a day by a state lottery?

                    Four, why pay for a vendor when free RNG exist here on the net and at LP?  Surely, other "fringe benefits" for the state are there or implied, right?

                    Fifth, since we can launch a missile from ten thousand miles away to land on the head of the first letter of this post, don't you think that a computer can be programmed to "scan" the selections LEAST selected for that drawing and pick one of those (or none!) to increase the state's profit?

                    Ask the lottery about 1, 2, and 3. I don't know what the exact numbers are,  but since you're posting you must have a computer. That and a software program are all they need for computerized drawings. My machine was a moderatley high end machine when I got it and it cost a hair over $1000 about 2 years ago.  Since the demands of generating random numbers isn't getting any higher there's no reason a $1000 machine shouldn't last for years. You can't even come close to buying one set of balls for that.

                    I'm sure the lotteries can offer an answer to 4, but I'll take a stab at it. If they didn't buy a dedicated  program designed specifically to pick the official numbers even more idiots would be bitching at them about how they choose the winning numbers.

                    5. So far nobody seems to have launched any missiles at your post, and there are millions of other things that could be done every day, but aren't. Other things can't be done. For example, the machines that draw the winning numbers can't "scan" any of the numbers that have been played, because they are standalone machines that aren't connected to the internet or any of the lotteries' intranets. Beyond that, the states, unlike some others, are smart enough to know that they already make a good profit by relying on simple probability.


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                      Posted: August 30, 2008, 10:58 pm - IP Logged

                      And you shouldn't buy it! Here is something from a lottery that does the test more than anyone that I can find that does do the test before the official ball drawing....

                      Lotto Texas ® Pre-test Results

                      A pre-test is an unofficial drawing that tests the machine and the ball set used for a Lotto Texas drawing. Pre-tests ensure that the drawing machine is working well and that balls are drawn in a random way.
                       
                      The Texas Lottery performs at least six pre-tests before every Lotto Texas drawing. A Lotto Texas ball set passes the pre-tests if the same ball is not drawn five or more times. If any Lotto Texas ball is drawn six times, the entire ball set fails and is removed from the machine and replaced by the alternate ball set.
                       
                      When a ball set does not pass the pre-tests, more pre-tests are performed to test the alternate ball set. The second set(s) of pre-tests are shown in RED .
                       
                      In the case of a discrepancy between the pre-test results listed on this Web Site and the official pre-test records, the official records prevail. Asterisks (*) mark the machine and ball set used for the drawing.
                      I went to their site just to see when the last time that the balls needed to be changed out because of the ball(s) not being drawn in a random enough way..... well that was 12/20/2006 when that happened! I didn't see any reason to check the rest of the years they have listed, for the simple fact that it had been so long since it happened. I can bet it is so rare that it really doesn't justify the test draws or at least that many test draws! 
                      In my book All they are doing is wasting a ton of good numbers that people may have had as their numbers that now will not be drawn again for god only knows how many years down the road if at all again in their life time! And that's just not right!!!!!   

                      If they want to make sure there is no tampering, why don't they have the machines in a big vault? Only one person has the code, and that's it !

                      It's a scam.

                      Someone said earlier in this post, that the lottery didn't need to fix it to make money, they make plenty already. You'd be surprised when the number crunchers or better know as bean counters are brown nosing their superiors by squeezing as much money from the public as possible. When the think tanks sit down at a meeting, they have nothing better to do than to find the ways and means...lol

                      Officials in other fields who have responsibility over much more important things like the safety of humans riding a roller coaster perform much much less testing. Imagine if the the roller coaster was tested 3 times before and after each ride. The line to ths attraction would be a mile long, and you'd have to wait 4 hours.. Not only that, but if the engineers of a roller coaster recommend periodic examinations of the track and equipment, but only limited to once a day, then why should an official of the lottery be so worried about malfunctions, and have to perform such tedious and unneccessary tests for a mere lottery, 3 or more times for each lottery type game? They spend more time doing pretests than the actual drawing...lool 

                      In other words, human life is much more important than the lottery, but much less testing of the equipment for a roller coaster equipment is performed compared to the lotto machines. This is a red flag to me. This is just one example.

                        four4me's avatar - gate1
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                        Posted: August 30, 2008, 11:57 pm - IP Logged

                        PAC said

                        If they want to make sure there is no tampering, why don't they have the machines in a big vault? Only one person has the code, and that's it !

                        In Maryland everything is locked up. They have electronic locks on the door and only personnel with a key card can enter the area.

                        come on PAC now if only one person had an entrance code and he/she was in a terrible accident should they suspend the drawings until he/she got out of the hospital.

                        Whatever their reason for having pre test it's pretty much standardized and don't count on them changing they way they conduct business to suit the avid lottery playing customers.

                        Besides outside of die hard lottery players how many of the lottery customers do you think even know what a pre draw is or could care one way or another.

                        Big John says. You don't hit the number. The number hits you!!!!

                                       I'm not Big John, I'm Four4me, Big John's a friend.

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                          Posted: August 31, 2008, 12:02 am - IP Logged

                          PAC said

                          If they want to make sure there is no tampering, why don't they have the machines in a big vault? Only one person has the code, and that's it !

                          In Maryland everything is locked up. They have electronic locks on the door and only personnel with a key card can enter the area.

                          come on PAC now if only one person had an entrance code and he/she was in a terrible accident should they suspend the drawings until he/she got out of the hospital.

                          Whatever their reason for having pre test it's pretty much standardized and don't count on them changing they way they conduct business to suit the avid lottery playing customers.

                          Besides outside of die hard lottery players how many of the lottery customers do you think even know what a pre draw is or could care one way or another.

                          come on PAC now if only one person had an entrance code and he/she was in a terrible accident should they suspend the drawings until he/she got out of the hospital

                           

                          What are the odds of this person in charge becoming incapacitated? Slim to none.

                          I'd like to see a list of officials from the past who were mowed down by trucks on the highway....lol


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                            Posted: August 31, 2008, 12:15 am - IP Logged

                            If the official was an 18 year old punk who had tatoos and a nose ring, I could see the high risk, but most officials are mature and civil. They'll most likely have no incidents.

                            I've never heard of rowdy officials who like to mountain climb or go crab fishing in the Bering straits....lol

                              four4me's avatar - gate1
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                              Posted: August 31, 2008, 12:47 am - IP Logged

                              If the official was an 18 year old punk who had tatoos and a nose ring, I could see the high risk, but most officials are mature and civil. They'll most likely have no incidents.

                              I've never heard of rowdy officials who like to mountain climb or go crab fishing in the Bering straits....lol

                              nobody knows when their gonna buy the farm dude.

                              A doctor i know orthopedic surgeon was in his hum v with his wife and kids, got crushed by a tractor trailer. killed everybody.

                              People who work for the lottery are average everyday citizens cant even play the games and for the most part could care less about the people that do.

                              All the equipment is locked up there are several people who have the key to the vault. security personnel and cameras everywhere. Still it's common practice to do pre draws probably the result of what happened in Pennsylvania years ago. Blame them.

                              Big John says. You don't hit the number. The number hits you!!!!

                                             I'm not Big John, I'm Four4me, Big John's a friend.