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Todd forgive me if this in inappropriate. Church and lottery

Topic closed. 56 replies. Last post 7 years ago by jrosina.

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lottocalgal's avatar - Lottery-043.jpg
CA
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December 23, 2007
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Posted: May 9, 2010, 9:52 am - IP Logged

Hello LP family,

I want to know your thoughts on this one.  Yeah  gambling is a sin and yet I play the lottery. 

Okay thats over-now here's my question.

I plan to give some of the money to my church after my win, (like I do now, except the amounts are so small, its insignificant.)  But since you are heavily taxed on your lottery wins and the gifts  you give to others, would it be appropriate to request the charitable reciept from the church in order to write it off  on taxes?

It sounds kind of blasphemous,   and yet it kindof sounds okay.  I'm not sure, because the year end bulletin says to hold off on submitting the taxes until they send you some kind of tithing form.

This is my first year of being a "true" member of a church so I'm not sure.

I guess when Jack Whittacker and those guys gave all that money away, they got some kind of reciept or write off.

Thanks all.

    rdgrnr's avatar - walt
    Way back up in them dadgum hills, son!
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    Posted: May 9, 2010, 10:20 am - IP Logged

    Matthew 6: 1-4

    Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your father which is in heaven.

    Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

    But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:

    That thine alms may be in secret: and thy father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.


                                                 
                         
                                             

     

     

     

     

                                                                                                       

    "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

                                                                                                --Edmund Burke

     

     

      temptustoo's avatar - cat anm.gif
      usa
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      Posted: May 9, 2010, 10:34 am - IP Logged

      amen

        Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
        Chief Bottle Washer
        New Jersey
        United States
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        May 31, 2000
        23349 Posts
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        Posted: May 9, 2010, 11:07 am - IP Logged

        Hello LP family,

        I want to know your thoughts on this one.  Yeah  gambling is a sin and yet I play the lottery. 

        Okay thats over-now here's my question.

        I plan to give some of the money to my church after my win, (like I do now, except the amounts are so small, its insignificant.)  But since you are heavily taxed on your lottery wins and the gifts  you give to others, would it be appropriate to request the charitable reciept from the church in order to write it off  on taxes?

        It sounds kind of blasphemous,   and yet it kindof sounds okay.  I'm not sure, because the year end bulletin says to hold off on submitting the taxes until they send you some kind of tithing form.

        This is my first year of being a "true" member of a church so I'm not sure.

        I guess when Jack Whittacker and those guys gave all that money away, they got some kind of reciept or write off.

        Thanks all.

        The topic is fine.  The only thing I take issue with is your assertion that gambling is a sin.  I do not believe it is.  In fact, the Bible does not say that gambling is bad in any way.  The Bible makes mention of "Lots", which are a form of lotteries used in biblical times. 

        Seeing as the Bible mentions the use of lotteries in the day, and does not say anything negative about gambling in general, I believe gambling is fine.  However, like anything in life, it must be done in moderation, lest it become a vice.

         

        Check the State Lottery Report Card
        What grade did your lottery earn?

         

        Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
        Help eliminate computerized drawings!

          Jack-C's avatar - us
          San Diego, CA
          United States
          Member #61467
          May 24, 2008
          28146 Posts
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          Posted: May 9, 2010, 11:15 am - IP Logged

          The topic is fine.  The only thing I take issue with is your assertion that gambling is a sin.  I do not believe it is.  In fact, the Bible does not say that gambling is bad in any way.  The Bible makes mention of "Lots", which are a form of lotteries used in biblical times. 

          Seeing as the Bible mentions the use of lotteries in the day, and does not say anything negative about gambling in general, I believe gambling is fine.  However, like anything in life, it must be done in moderation, lest it become a vice.

          Todd is correct.  Gambling is not a sin, but we are to be good stewards of the money God gives to us (all that we get, actually).  And getting a deduction on your tax return for the money you give the church is not a sin, either!!

            dr65's avatar - black panther.jpg
            Pennsylvania
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            May 2, 2009
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            Posted: May 9, 2010, 11:36 am - IP Logged

            'Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and render unto God what is God's'.

            Caesar created the deduction...use it.

            Personally, I'd feel better using it after giving the full 10% to the church.

            Todd, you're right. There is NO sin in gambling. The sin is excess....excess to a point where it is interfering with other priorities: Mortgage, utilities,

            food, car payment, etc. etc. etc.

              Jack-C's avatar - us
              San Diego, CA
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              Posted: May 9, 2010, 11:38 am - IP Logged

              'Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and render unto God what is God's'.

              Caesar created the deduction...use it.

              Personally, I'd feel better using it after giving the full 10% to the church.

              Todd, you're right. There is NO sin in gambling. The sin is excess....excess to a point where it is interfering with other priorities: Mortgage, utilities,

              food, car payment, etc. etc. etc.

              I Agree!

                Coin Toss's avatar - shape barbed.jpg
                Zeta Reticuli Star System
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                Posted: May 9, 2010, 2:26 pm - IP Logged

                A lot of good points are being made here. Todd is right about moderation, that's for sure. When I worked in casinos I saw a coworker crying because they had no baby food in the house and their husband had bet $5,000 on a Super Bowl (it lost).

                This is a story I wrote as an assignment for a writers course. Tghose in the "Bible Belt" will get a real feel for this, I'm thinking espeicaaly triggs and rgdrnr. Convenience marts in Kentucky sell discoubt cigarettes, booze and lottery tickets and their windows and bulleting vboards are peppered with notices of church meetings and revivals.

                Here's the story:

                Pastor John Ezra was a third generation preacher. In Kentucky, as in most of the South and bordering states, the clergy preached fire and brimstone sermons. In a tobacco and distillery economy some subjects were taboo. This was a given. Because of this, most preachers had something besides tobacco or drinking that they got very passionate about. Pastor John Ezra was no different, with him his passionate sermons were on gambling.

                     The church he pastored was facing some difficulties. Membership had dropped off, families have moved away. The area was experiencing a decline in population. One of the regulars in his church was Tommy Finley. Tommy was there almost every Sunday and enjoyed the fire and brimstone sermons, seeing some valid points in them -despite Tommy=s love of playing the lotto most every week.  Tommy had been involved with race horses and casinos in the past and knew a little more about gambling than the average person.

                     Pastor Jon and Tommy had met for lunch and were discussing a tobacco mart down the road. In Kentucky tobaccos stores are a very bi business, as even with the latest tax increases the tax per pack and per carton still made Kentucky cigarettes less expensive than the cost in surrounding states. These stores sold discount cigarettes and other tobacco products, discount liquor, and lottery tickets. This was on top of the other knick- knacks common to convenience stores along highways.

                     "You gotta love it", Tommy said as he looked at the Pastor.
                      "What's that", asked Pastor John?
                     "Well, just look around you. We see cigarettes, liquor, flyers for horse farms that raise race horses, lottery tickets, and look on the window. Flyers for upcoming events at two Baptist churches."
                 
                 "You don't see that as kind of ironic, or see the humor in it?", asked Tommy.
                     "Gladly take in tobacco money or liquor money from your congregation and preach against the lottery?"
                     "It's gambling", said Pastor John.
                      Tommy said, "Look, I'm not talking about casinos and enticing people to play their whole paycheck on video poker, trying to win an $1100.00 Royal Flush. Unlikely that would change anyone's life - but the casino owners. As they make more and more. I'm talking about working stiffs playing a buck or two on a lottery ticket because it gives them just a little bit of hope. You see this everyday in casinos, when people walk out, most of them look angry. Of course they do, most of them lost. When people leave a lotto place, especially when there's a huge jackpot, they walk out with hope on their face."
                     "It's still gambling, A Pastor John said.
                     "I'm not saying it isn't," remarked Tommy. AI=m saying far better to risk a dollar or two trying to change your life than risking paycheck after paycheck to get even. Read a lottery ticket, the remark about proceeds from the lottery benefit all Kentuckians. Proceeds from the casinos go to the casino corporations, most out of state. Big difference."
                     Pastor John said, "So you're opposed to casinos but pro-lottery."
                     "Not exactly", said Tommy. "'m just saying casinos promise a bunch of spin off business. Then after they're up and operating, they open their own restaurants which takes away from the businesses in town, to the point they eventually close."
                     "The thing is", said Tommy, Aif three people from your church were to come in here right now, and one buys cigarettes, one buys a bottle of booze, and one buys a lottery ticket, you=d preach to the one with a lottery ticket and say hello to the other two."
                     "Well yeah", said Pastor John.
                 
                They had finished lunch and Tommy said he wanted to get one more cup of coffee and make some phone calls. Pastor John said he had a few stops to make and went out to his car and left.
                Tommy got another coffee and grabbed a newspaper, noticing that the Powerball jackpot was
                $75,000,000. He remembered the old adage about how even a blind hog could find an acorn every now and then and decided to spend a couple of dollars to benefit all Kentuckians.

                     Powerball is played by picking five out of 53 numbers in the top box of a powerball slip, and 1 number of 42 on the bottom. Hitting the five of five on the top portion wins $100,000. Adding the winning powerball number to those five takes the prize up by millions, literally.

                     Tommy chose five numbers, and the powerball number. He repeated one of the first five as the powerball number, just on a hunch. He thought about how much he=d give to Pastor John and his church if he won, but to do that the media would make a big affair out of it. Not only that, the taxes would really be sticky. He couldn=t give that much away anonymously.  Tommy came up with a better idea. H gave the clerk three dollars and said, ACan you play this same ticket three times?@.  The clerk said, ASure@ as she knew people always played tickets for other people, especially of they were out of state people. As she handed him the tickets and said, AGood luck@ he gave one back to her and said, AThis is for you, I want someone rooting for those numbers@. Tommy thought 75 million for one person was a bit much, splitting it would be better.
                She thanked him and he left, taking the other two tickets.

                     The Saturday night of the drawing, Tommy watched it on TV and one by one the numbers were selected. 7 - 24 - 27- 29 - 41 and the powerball, 24. Tommy checked his tickets. (So did the store clerk at her home!) Then he checked and rechecked.
                 
                Tommy didn't  sleep much that night, neither did that store clerk!  He made it a point to get to Pastor John=s church on time, sat there and listened to sermon on the lottery. He kind of had hunch that's what it would be on, as Pastor John often used those lunches as ideas for the next Sunday=s sermon.
                     When it came time for the offering basket to be passed around and it came to Tommy, he took out a $20 bill and wrapped it around the other winning lottery ticket and dropped them in the basket....
                ________________________________________________________


                As you can tell this was writtne awhile ago and has some of the at the time lottery vs casino issues in it, just pass over that .

                When the river boats were planned in some areas and found a lot of oppossitioin, some of it turned out to be from local churches feeling their bingo games would be threatened. Speakss volumes.

                Had a little troulbe converting this form word so pardon the typos.

                Those who run the lotteries love it when players look for consistency in something that's designed not to have any.

                Lep

                There is one and only one 'proven' system, and that is to book the action. No matter the game, let the players pick their own losers.

                  lottocalgal's avatar - Lottery-043.jpg
                  CA
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                  Posted: May 9, 2010, 5:14 pm - IP Logged

                  Yeah but noone really responded to my question. (well Jack kind of did)

                  I'm talking about  asking the church for the receipt for a "charitabe" donation.  I feel uncle Sam would care less that you SAY you gave ten thousand dollars to the church.  In order to write that off as a deduction youd need proof. 

                  Woudl you feel funny asking the church for a receipt?

                    rdgrnr's avatar - walt
                    Way back up in them dadgum hills, son!
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                    April 28, 2009
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                    Posted: May 9, 2010, 5:34 pm - IP Logged

                    Yeah but noone really responded to my question. (well Jack kind of did)

                    I'm talking about  asking the church for the receipt for a "charitabe" donation.  I feel uncle Sam would care less that you SAY you gave ten thousand dollars to the church.  In order to write that off as a deduction youd need proof. 

                    Woudl you feel funny asking the church for a receipt?

                    There's nothing at all wrong with asking for a receipt. Anytime you can restrict the government from confiscating more of your money you should do it without hesitation.

                    The church won't be concerned about giving a receipt to you. That's more money you get to keep and possibly give to them down the road which is a good thing for all.


                                                                 
                                         
                                                             

                     

                     

                     

                     

                                                                                                                       

                    "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

                                                                                                                --Edmund Burke

                     

                     

                      dopey7719's avatar - Lottery-049.jpg
                      Midlands, SC
                      United States
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                      January 14, 2009
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                      Posted: May 9, 2010, 5:54 pm - IP Logged

                      I think it is just fine to do that.  You could always just ask your pastor or an elder of the church.

                        rdgrnr's avatar - walt
                        Way back up in them dadgum hills, son!
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                        April 28, 2009
                        14903 Posts
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                        Posted: May 9, 2010, 6:08 pm - IP Logged

                        A lot of good points are being made here. Todd is right about moderation, that's for sure. When I worked in casinos I saw a coworker crying because they had no baby food in the house and their husband had bet $5,000 on a Super Bowl (it lost).

                        This is a story I wrote as an assignment for a writers course. Tghose in the "Bible Belt" will get a real feel for this, I'm thinking espeicaaly triggs and rgdrnr. Convenience marts in Kentucky sell discoubt cigarettes, booze and lottery tickets and their windows and bulleting vboards are peppered with notices of church meetings and revivals.

                        Here's the story:

                        Pastor John Ezra was a third generation preacher. In Kentucky, as in most of the South and bordering states, the clergy preached fire and brimstone sermons. In a tobacco and distillery economy some subjects were taboo. This was a given. Because of this, most preachers had something besides tobacco or drinking that they got very passionate about. Pastor John Ezra was no different, with him his passionate sermons were on gambling.

                             The church he pastored was facing some difficulties. Membership had dropped off, families have moved away. The area was experiencing a decline in population. One of the regulars in his church was Tommy Finley. Tommy was there almost every Sunday and enjoyed the fire and brimstone sermons, seeing some valid points in them -despite Tommy=s love of playing the lotto most every week.  Tommy had been involved with race horses and casinos in the past and knew a little more about gambling than the average person.

                             Pastor Jon and Tommy had met for lunch and were discussing a tobacco mart down the road. In Kentucky tobaccos stores are a very bi business, as even with the latest tax increases the tax per pack and per carton still made Kentucky cigarettes less expensive than the cost in surrounding states. These stores sold discount cigarettes and other tobacco products, discount liquor, and lottery tickets. This was on top of the other knick- knacks common to convenience stores along highways.

                             "You gotta love it", Tommy said as he looked at the Pastor.
                              "What's that", asked Pastor John?
                             "Well, just look around you. We see cigarettes, liquor, flyers for horse farms that raise race horses, lottery tickets, and look on the window. Flyers for upcoming events at two Baptist churches."
                         
                         "You don't see that as kind of ironic, or see the humor in it?", asked Tommy.
                             "Gladly take in tobacco money or liquor money from your congregation and preach against the lottery?"
                             "It's gambling", said Pastor John.
                              Tommy said, "Look, I'm not talking about casinos and enticing people to play their whole paycheck on video poker, trying to win an $1100.00 Royal Flush. Unlikely that would change anyone's life - but the casino owners. As they make more and more. I'm talking about working stiffs playing a buck or two on a lottery ticket because it gives them just a little bit of hope. You see this everyday in casinos, when people walk out, most of them look angry. Of course they do, most of them lost. When people leave a lotto place, especially when there's a huge jackpot, they walk out with hope on their face."
                             "It's still gambling, A Pastor John said.
                             "I'm not saying it isn't," remarked Tommy. AI=m saying far better to risk a dollar or two trying to change your life than risking paycheck after paycheck to get even. Read a lottery ticket, the remark about proceeds from the lottery benefit all Kentuckians. Proceeds from the casinos go to the casino corporations, most out of state. Big difference."
                             Pastor John said, "So you're opposed to casinos but pro-lottery."
                             "Not exactly", said Tommy. "'m just saying casinos promise a bunch of spin off business. Then after they're up and operating, they open their own restaurants which takes away from the businesses in town, to the point they eventually close."
                             "The thing is", said Tommy, Aif three people from your church were to come in here right now, and one buys cigarettes, one buys a bottle of booze, and one buys a lottery ticket, you=d preach to the one with a lottery ticket and say hello to the other two."
                             "Well yeah", said Pastor John.
                         
                        They had finished lunch and Tommy said he wanted to get one more cup of coffee and make some phone calls. Pastor John said he had a few stops to make and went out to his car and left.
                        Tommy got another coffee and grabbed a newspaper, noticing that the Powerball jackpot was
                        $75,000,000. He remembered the old adage about how even a blind hog could find an acorn every now and then and decided to spend a couple of dollars to benefit all Kentuckians.

                             Powerball is played by picking five out of 53 numbers in the top box of a powerball slip, and 1 number of 42 on the bottom. Hitting the five of five on the top portion wins $100,000. Adding the winning powerball number to those five takes the prize up by millions, literally.

                             Tommy chose five numbers, and the powerball number. He repeated one of the first five as the powerball number, just on a hunch. He thought about how much he=d give to Pastor John and his church if he won, but to do that the media would make a big affair out of it. Not only that, the taxes would really be sticky. He couldn=t give that much away anonymously.  Tommy came up with a better idea. H gave the clerk three dollars and said, ACan you play this same ticket three times?@.  The clerk said, ASure@ as she knew people always played tickets for other people, especially of they were out of state people. As she handed him the tickets and said, AGood luck@ he gave one back to her and said, AThis is for you, I want someone rooting for those numbers@. Tommy thought 75 million for one person was a bit much, splitting it would be better.
                        She thanked him and he left, taking the other two tickets.

                             The Saturday night of the drawing, Tommy watched it on TV and one by one the numbers were selected. 7 - 24 - 27- 29 - 41 and the powerball, 24. Tommy checked his tickets. (So did the store clerk at her home!) Then he checked and rechecked.
                         
                        Tommy didn't  sleep much that night, neither did that store clerk!  He made it a point to get to Pastor John=s church on time, sat there and listened to sermon on the lottery. He kind of had hunch that's what it would be on, as Pastor John often used those lunches as ideas for the next Sunday=s sermon.
                             When it came time for the offering basket to be passed around and it came to Tommy, he took out a $20 bill and wrapped it around the other winning lottery ticket and dropped them in the basket....
                        ________________________________________________________


                        As you can tell this was writtne awhile ago and has some of the at the time lottery vs casino issues in it, just pass over that .

                        When the river boats were planned in some areas and found a lot of oppossitioin, some of it turned out to be from local churches feeling their bingo games would be threatened. Speakss volumes.

                        Had a little troulbe converting this form word so pardon the typos.

                        Hey CT,

                        Do we have to wait for the sequel to find out if the Pastor kept it or did like the Salvation Army and refused it?


                                                                     
                                             
                                                                 

                         

                         

                         

                         

                                                                                                                           

                        "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

                                                                                                                    --Edmund Burke

                         

                         


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                          Posted: May 9, 2010, 10:16 pm - IP Logged

                          Even if it were in the bible, doesn't make it a fact.

                          Personally, I don't believe everything I read. I use common sense.

                          You never know, the Flying Spaghetti monster may say it's OK. 

                            Jack-C's avatar - us
                            San Diego, CA
                            United States
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                            May 24, 2008
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                            Posted: May 9, 2010, 10:28 pm - IP Logged

                            Yeah but noone really responded to my question. (well Jack kind of did)

                            I'm talking about  asking the church for the receipt for a "charitabe" donation.  I feel uncle Sam would care less that you SAY you gave ten thousand dollars to the church.  In order to write that off as a deduction youd need proof. 

                            Woudl you feel funny asking the church for a receipt?

                            The church is REQUIRED to give you a "record of giving" at the end of the calendar year.  Some churches send them out quarterly.  If you drop CASH into the offering, then they have no way of knowing who gave it, but if you write a check, they will send the statement to the name and address on the check. You need to keep the statement they sent you and your check (both are required now by IRS) for your tax records.

                              savagegoose's avatar - ProfilePho
                              adelaide sa
                              Australia
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                              April 11, 2006
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                              Posted: May 9, 2010, 10:49 pm - IP Logged

                              of course you can ask for a reciept. Why donations to charities is deductable is because if they wheren't less money would go to charities, and the gov would have to provide more services. the gov cant provide the work charities do at as good a price as churches.

                               

                              you are actually saving taX PAYERS MONEY  by donating to a charity. and if you look at it as paying your taxes to  SERVICE WHERE YOU GET TO DECIDE how the money is spent , then it is just and right, that dont have to double pay the tax money. ie once to the church, and then again to the taxman.

                              2014 = -1016; 2015= -1409; 2016  = -1171; 2017 = ?  TOT =  -3596

                              keno historic = -2291 ; 2015= -603; 2016= -424; 2017 = ? TOT = - 3318