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When a winning ticket gets destroyed

Topic closed. 52 replies. Last post 1 year ago by noise-gate.

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Teddi's avatar - Lottery-008.jpg

United States
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May 13, 2013
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Posted: June 15, 2015, 7:31 pm - IP Logged

And just maybe .. it will make sense to all of us if we had on record an incident where a winner did not have the Original ticket but presented a copy to the LC and found out what their response was... huh Floyd? After all, what would be the point of making photocopies of any lottery ticket you buy IF you know you not going to be paid out on it?

Yup. That's what I keep circling back to in my head. If there is no possible circumstance that the lottery would pay out a jackpot prize without the original ticket, why bother to make copies. Is it just misguided advice passed on over the years or is there some basis for making copies?

I might wake up early and go running.  I might also wake up and win the lottery.

The odds are about the same.

    LottoMetro's avatar - Lottery-024.jpg
    Happyland
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    Posted: June 15, 2015, 8:28 pm - IP Logged

    I've always thought that the point of making copies was 'evidence' in the event that the ticket is stolen.

    The rules may vary by jurisdiction, but I believe that in most places they will not honor copies if the loss/damage was due to player's negligence.

    In any case, I wouldn't expect the lottery to pay out on any copy except extraordinary circumstances or until a satisfactory period of time has passed.

    If the chances of winning the jackpot are so slim, why play when the jackpot is so small? Your chances never change, but the potential payoff does.
    If a crystal ball showed you the future of the rest of your life, and in that future you will never win a jackpot, would you still play?

    2016: -48.28% (13 tickets) ||
    P&L % = Total Win($)/Total Wager($) - 1

      SilverLion's avatar - 8ball

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      Posted: June 15, 2015, 9:25 pm - IP Logged

      Don't think this is a discussion topic so much as a legal query. I've read many articles on what to do with a lottery ticket that's a winner and the advice that's invariably stated is to sign the ticket and then make copies of both sides. However, every lottery jackpot site I've read says that the ticket must be presented, photocopies are not accepted. 

      So what happens if you have the winning ticket, but your house burns down with the ticket in it? Or you put it in a safety deposit box but there's a bank heist. 

      What happens if your winning ticket is lost, stolen or destroyed but you have copies of it. I'll go so far as to say you signed the ticket and made copies in front of a notary. Would MUSL  accept the notarized copy if through no fault of your own, you cannot present the original ticket? 

      This is a really awesome question Teddi!

      I would think that in order for you to claim after a theft, or a fire, you would need to present official fire department reports, or police report.

      I sign any decent win immediately, and I always make copies.  (Usually for my own records, to remember what patterns I was seeing)

      If you have a copy of the winning ticket, the winning ticket is known to be missing, and there is video evidence of your purchase, ie, atm withdrawels, sales receipt etc, then I think it would be very bad business for MUSL to deny claim.

       

      I may be mistaken but I recall some LP News stories (not in the U.S. of course) where the lottery agency went out of their way to find the winner and grant the prize even though "the dog at my ticket"

      I think MUSL is treading on thin ice in terms of its reputation.  Especially if what I read about a recent PB drawing that went delayed and untelevised can be corroborated.

      If you don't want to strive to have 100% transparency, then you can kiss those billion dollar jackpots, and high sales, and any type of trust by the public, good bye.

      I might as well move to China and play the lotto where, they are much more honest than in the U.S.

       

      P.S.

      You can scratch that last line, I just read a story about a questionable lottery occurence in a LP story.  you china!!!

        SilverLion's avatar - 8ball

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        Posted: June 15, 2015, 9:30 pm - IP Logged

        Well now, I think this puts a whole new light on this and changes everything, because if the LC can reprint and replace a damaged ticket and it's something they've done before, then there really is no reason for them not to do so again in the event a damaged ticket is a jackpot winner. Having precedence is a great legal foothold to have. 

        Actually I dont think this changes anything as there are no numbers on the reverse side of a ticket.

        Granted I think if the bar code becomes smeared or something than of course the numbers on the front of the ticke t can be manual y imputted and the ticket reddeemed that way.

          noise-gate's avatar - images q=tbn:ANd9GcR91HDs4UJhjxO7cmeMQWZ5lB_FOcMLOGicau4V74R45tDgPWrr
          Bay Area - California
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          Posted: June 15, 2015, 10:25 pm - IP Logged

          I've always thought that the point of making copies was 'evidence' in the event that the ticket is stolen.

          The rules may vary by jurisdiction, but I believe that in most places they will not honor copies if the loss/damage was due to player's negligence.

          In any case, I wouldn't expect the lottery to pay out on any copy except extraordinary circumstances or until a satisfactory period of time has passed.

          Which raises a few questions LM: What is the purpose of everyone in a lottery Pool getting a copy of their tickets?

          What If the person holding the Original ticket decides to claim the jackpot for his/herself- would the LC rule that foul play is afoot based on the " Copies" that the other pool players present as proof of their right to claim a portion of the jackpot?

          If the answer is Yes, why would the LC not view the same copies as being legit in the event * Teddi's scenarios...a Tornado ,fire, or a flood destroying the home along with the original ticket? 

          People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it- George Bernard Shaw.

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            Kentucky
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            Posted: June 15, 2015, 11:55 pm - IP Logged

            Which raises a few questions LM: What is the purpose of everyone in a lottery Pool getting a copy of their tickets?

            What If the person holding the Original ticket decides to claim the jackpot for his/herself- would the LC rule that foul play is afoot based on the " Copies" that the other pool players present as proof of their right to claim a portion of the jackpot?

            If the answer is Yes, why would the LC not view the same copies as being legit in the event * Teddi's scenarios...a Tornado ,fire, or a flood destroying the home along with the original ticket? 

            "What If the person holding the Original ticket decides to claim the jackpot for his/herself- would the LC rule that foul play is afoot based on the " Copies"  "

            Lotteries usually pay the person holding the Original ticket unless there is a court order preventing it. Since the claim would be against the jackpot winner their "proof" is shown to a court and not the lottery.

            "If the answer is Yes, why would the LC not view the same copies as being legit in the event * Teddi's scenarios...a Tornado ,fire, or a flood destroying the home along with the original ticket?"

            The real question should be why the "tornado, fire, or flood" destroyed everything but the copies. Granted it's just a scenario, but it's foolishly suggesting it's more important to protect the copies than the actual ticket.

            Most lotteries suggest that jackpot winners sign the back of the ticket contact lottery headquarters and make an appointment to validate the ticket. But without the winning ticket the winner may have to wait until the expiration date to collect.

              noise-gate's avatar - images q=tbn:ANd9GcR91HDs4UJhjxO7cmeMQWZ5lB_FOcMLOGicau4V74R45tDgPWrr
              Bay Area - California
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              Posted: June 16, 2015, 12:16 am - IP Logged

              "What If the person holding the Original ticket decides to claim the jackpot for his/herself- would the LC rule that foul play is afoot based on the " Copies"  "

              Lotteries usually pay the person holding the Original ticket unless there is a court order preventing it. Since the claim would be against the jackpot winner their "proof" is shown to a court and not the lottery.

              "If the answer is Yes, why would the LC not view the same copies as being legit in the event * Teddi's scenarios...a Tornado ,fire, or a flood destroying the home along with the original ticket?"

              The real question should be why the "tornado, fire, or flood" destroyed everything but the copies. Granted it's just a scenario, but it's foolishly suggesting it's more important to protect the copies than the actual ticket.

              Most lotteries suggest that jackpot winners sign the back of the ticket contact lottery headquarters and make an appointment to validate the ticket. But without the winning ticket the winner may have to wait until the expiration date to collect.

              Interesting Read Stack:  Now I want my Lawyer.

              People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it- George Bernard Shaw.

                RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
                mid-Ohio
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                Posted: June 16, 2015, 5:30 am - IP Logged

                Which raises a few questions LM: What is the purpose of everyone in a lottery Pool getting a copy of their tickets?

                What If the person holding the Original ticket decides to claim the jackpot for his/herself- would the LC rule that foul play is afoot based on the " Copies" that the other pool players present as proof of their right to claim a portion of the jackpot?

                If the answer is Yes, why would the LC not view the same copies as being legit in the event * Teddi's scenarios...a Tornado ,fire, or a flood destroying the home along with the original ticket? 

                "Which raises a few questions LM: What is the purpose of everyone in a lottery Pool getting a copy of their tickets?"

                When I was in a pool with co-workers, the members copy of the tickets was for them to know what combinations were played on their behalf.  Some members wanted to check for themselves when told the pool didn't have any winners. 

                 * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
                   
                             Evil Looking       

                  zephbe's avatar - animal butterfly.jpg
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                  Posted: June 16, 2015, 11:00 am - IP Logged

                  Actually I dont think this changes anything as there are no numbers on the reverse side of a ticket.

                  Granted I think if the bar code becomes smeared or something than of course the numbers on the front of the ticke t can be manual y imputted and the ticket reddeemed that way.

                  Look at the back of your lottery ticket--there are numbers on the back.  I  have a PB ticket that has the quick picks on the front.  the back of the ticket has 306786808 and 306769809.  You should not post things that you don't know.

                    noise-gate's avatar - images q=tbn:ANd9GcR91HDs4UJhjxO7cmeMQWZ5lB_FOcMLOGicau4V74R45tDgPWrr
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                    Posted: June 16, 2015, 2:03 pm - IP Logged

                    "Which raises a few questions LM: What is the purpose of everyone in a lottery Pool getting a copy of their tickets?"

                    When I was in a pool with co-workers, the members copy of the tickets was for them to know what combinations were played on their behalf.  Some members wanted to check for themselves when told the pool didn't have any winners. 

                    Is that all it's for?... how about the ticket holder skipping town, would the pool have gone to *Court-thanks Stack, and presented their copies as proof of their right to some of the jackpot money RJ? 

                    People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it- George Bernard Shaw.

                      Teddi's avatar - Lottery-008.jpg

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                      Posted: June 16, 2015, 8:06 pm - IP Logged

                      "What If the person holding the Original ticket decides to claim the jackpot for his/herself- would the LC rule that foul play is afoot based on the " Copies"  "

                      Lotteries usually pay the person holding the Original ticket unless there is a court order preventing it. Since the claim would be against the jackpot winner their "proof" is shown to a court and not the lottery.

                      "If the answer is Yes, why would the LC not view the same copies as being legit in the event * Teddi's scenarios...a Tornado ,fire, or a flood destroying the home along with the original ticket?"

                      The real question should be why the "tornado, fire, or flood" destroyed everything but the copies. Granted it's just a scenario, but it's foolishly suggesting it's more important to protect the copies than the actual ticket.

                      Most lotteries suggest that jackpot winners sign the back of the ticket contact lottery headquarters and make an appointment to validate the ticket. But without the winning ticket the winner may have to wait until the expiration date to collect.

                      Did anyone even hint at stating that the copy of a ticket be better protected than the actual ticket? Or shouldn't common sense have come to the fore and have realization dawn that a person who is conscientious enough to make copies of their ticket would most likely be conscientious enough to have the ticket in a safe place. Even the "foolish scenario" of the ticket being in a safety deposit box should have been a clue. It also seems to me that in the event the LC would actually accept a copy as proof, that keeping the copy in a secondary location (as stated) away from the ticket would also be sensible. In the same way that keeping copies of ones SS card in a safe place might be beneficial in the event that something happens to the original, it does not negate keeping the actual card in a safe place as well.

                      I might wake up early and go running.  I might also wake up and win the lottery.

                      The odds are about the same.

                        maringoman's avatar - images q=tbn:ANd9GcTbRxpKQmOfcCoUqF2FyqIOAwDo7rg9G-lfJLAALPGWJWwiz19eRw
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                        Posted: June 16, 2015, 9:05 pm - IP Logged

                        I've always thought that the point of making copies was 'evidence' in the event that the ticket is stolen.

                        The rules may vary by jurisdiction, but I believe that in most places they will not honor copies if the loss/damage was due to player's negligence.

                        In any case, I wouldn't expect the lottery to pay out on any copy except extraordinary circumstances or until a satisfactory period of time has passed.

                        After ripping up lottery ticket, Montana pair claim $48.5M share of Powerball jackpot

                        Jun 25, 2010, 12:45 am

                         

                        http://www.lotterypost.com/news/216328 

                        LP news archives has all types scenarios concerning lotteries.

                        That money's gone fo ever

                          LottoMetro's avatar - Lottery-024.jpg
                          Happyland
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                          Posted: June 16, 2015, 9:11 pm - IP Logged

                          After ripping up lottery ticket, Montana pair claim $48.5M share of Powerball jackpot

                          Jun 25, 2010, 12:45 am

                           

                          http://www.lotterypost.com/news/216328 

                          LP news archives has all types scenarios concerning lotteries.

                          In that case, they still submitted the original ticket.

                          Where are the stories of the lottery awarding a jackpot based only on a copy?

                          Last month in Queens, a woman won ~$6000 and even had the claim receipts to prove it. But the clerk never gave her back the ticket (supposedly). Lottery denied her claim because she didn't have the original ticket.

                          Lotteries will tell you to make copies "for your records." I've never heard one tell you to make copies "so you can claim your prize if you lose the original."

                          If the chances of winning the jackpot are so slim, why play when the jackpot is so small? Your chances never change, but the potential payoff does.
                          If a crystal ball showed you the future of the rest of your life, and in that future you will never win a jackpot, would you still play?

                          2016: -48.28% (13 tickets) ||
                          P&L % = Total Win($)/Total Wager($) - 1

                            maringoman's avatar - images q=tbn:ANd9GcTbRxpKQmOfcCoUqF2FyqIOAwDo7rg9G-lfJLAALPGWJWwiz19eRw
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                            Posted: June 16, 2015, 9:58 pm - IP Logged

                            In that case, they still submitted the original ticket.

                            Where are the stories of the lottery awarding a jackpot based only on a copy?

                            Last month in Queens, a woman won ~$6000 and even had the claim receipts to prove it. But the clerk never gave her back the ticket (supposedly). Lottery denied her claim because she didn't have the original ticket.

                            Lotteries will tell you to make copies "for your records." I've never heard one tell you to make copies "so you can claim your prize if you lose the original."

                            My bad. I should have been more pointed in my response. I meant to add an angle to the general topic and respond to the part you say about "damage was due to player's negligence" but it came out like I was arguing your point. (My excuse is I'm watching NBA playoffs)

                            I don't think copies would be acceptable. Slippery slope

                            That money's gone fo ever

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                              Posted: June 16, 2015, 10:14 pm - IP Logged

                              Did anyone even hint at stating that the copy of a ticket be better protected than the actual ticket? Or shouldn't common sense have come to the fore and have realization dawn that a person who is conscientious enough to make copies of their ticket would most likely be conscientious enough to have the ticket in a safe place. Even the "foolish scenario" of the ticket being in a safety deposit box should have been a clue. It also seems to me that in the event the LC would actually accept a copy as proof, that keeping the copy in a secondary location (as stated) away from the ticket would also be sensible. In the same way that keeping copies of ones SS card in a safe place might be beneficial in the event that something happens to the original, it does not negate keeping the actual card in a safe place as well.

                              "Did anyone even hint at stating that the copy of a ticket be better protected than the actual ticket?"

                              The majority of state lotteries have rules saying "no ticket, no prize" which makes all this mumbo-jumbo about making copies moot. If you know for a fact any lottery will accept copies, show us.

                              "In the same way that keeping copies of ones SS card in a safe place might be beneficial in the event that something happens to the original, it does not negate keeping the actual card in a safe place as well."

                              There are lots of SS offices and they will issue you a new card if yours gets destroyed in a Tornado, fire, etc. And the lotteries give you at least 180 days before the ticket expires. Do lotteries accept copies tickets and SS cards too?