Welcome Guest
Log In | Register )
You last visited December 4, 2016, 11:27 pm
All times shown are
Eastern Time (GMT-5:00)

Florida's ridiculous ball and machine testing scam

Topic closed. 63 replies. Last post 5 months ago by amber123.

Page 3 of 5
53
PrintE-mailLink
dr65's avatar - black panther.jpg
Pennsylvania
United States
Member #74096
May 2, 2009
22872 Posts
Offline
Posted: June 24, 2016, 7:25 pm - IP Logged

Received another call this morning, the response given to me about PRE-DRAWS was, "There is really no need to publish the PRE-DRAWS, because they are not part of the official draws". I asked her why they were keeping this from the public, no response? I asked her about RANDOM DRAWS? Does anyone, on this website,  believe that Florida's Lottery Draws are RANDOM? They are hiding the truth. Every lottery player in Florida need to be made aware of the PRE-DRAWS.

If we are paying to play a game where a portion of the profits reaped are

benefitting school systems and education, we need to have it made available 

to a certain degree, what is taking place in those games. 

The need for disclosure isn't satisfied by calling one draw of 4 to 6 official.

Technically all the draws are official because they were done without error to

reach the final result.

Try taking your car to the car wash and they stop at pre-rinse and tell you, wait,

we need to back it up and start over. Or your lawnmower service guy cutting 1/4

of your lawn and saying we'll be back in a day, have to test this perfectly fine

equipment. I know it's different but when you pay for something and they aren't

providing you with full service the first time around it turns the boss into the servant.

States that don't disclose test results should be forced to do so. Since players will

keep playing, some just accepting the tests as part of the process, the games will go

on and they know that. 

Regulations are in high order to watch over the states lottery games, make sure they

are open and honest without discarding basic securities or making the game so transparent 

that everyone always wins. I don't expect them to divulge their programming but do expect

they do not hide what should be public knowledge. Players have a right to know what the 

pre-draw numbers are and yes, they can stop playing but won't. It's another case of a mega

money maker where secrets are kept under the pretense of being fair, methodical and

meticulous in convincing a vast number of players they are doing it for their saftey. 

Draw the balls once and make the result official. There is no better way to convey a feeling

of fairness to players than drawing once, accepting the results, making them official and

and paying who wins on the first draw. Suspicion comes naturally about 'people in

charge' of our money through their determination of what's good for all of us. What's

good for all of us is one result or at the very least a full report made available after each

draw showing what transpired upon request. It's not telling people the test draws don't

matter or aren't public information, that is indeed, hiding something.

    Lucky Loser's avatar - bucks
    Texas
    United States
    Member #86154
    January 30, 2010
    1648 Posts
    Offline
    Posted: June 24, 2016, 7:25 pm - IP Logged

    Yes there is 10 balls for each position.

    My main point was, if a number shows 3 out 5 times in the same position, why does that throw up a red flag?  Why do they even think it warrants an additional 3 tests? A number that does that is nothing out of the ordinary.

    But if they are concerned about it in the pre-tests and it happens in the official draw, you can bet they will use a different ball set after the 5th draw, which would be why you won't see it in the three draws after that. Bottom line is, they are trying to control or alter the true randomness of the games. If they weren't you wouldn't the tests in the first place.

    Bottom line is, they are trying to control or alter the true randomness of the games. If they weren't you wouldn't the tests in the first place.

    I agree with you, grwurston. A player should just sit down and really ask themselves why the commissions need to draw FOUR TIMES from each chamber. They say that it's to protect the integrity of randomness and to ensure the machines are working properly but, I disagree. Once they go into their 'secret room' all they need to do is fire the 'ball agitator' up, allow the balls to circulate for 30 seconds to a minute, and then draw one from each chamber. If the machine malfunctions on that draw for whatever reason, THEN, switch machines. End of story. They're putting too much emphasis on the ball set and a single ball being drawn repeatedly in one chamber. Well, hell, they're only (10) balls and they're drawing nearly half of them on the premise of seeing if ONE will repeat ALL FOUR TIMES. Really? I'd like to know just how many times a given state has actually had this happen...and I still call BS  on the whole deal. 

    Small games, frequent wins, and regular payouts 'cause.....

    There are seven days in the week...'Someday' isn't one of them.

    #lotto-4-a-living

      grwurston's avatar - Cute animals_Spider.jpg
      Winning makes me smile.
      bel air maryland
      United States
      Member #90251
      April 24, 2010
      4861 Posts
      Online
      Posted: June 24, 2016, 8:12 pm - IP Logged

      Bottom line is, they are trying to control or alter the true randomness of the games. If they weren't you wouldn't the tests in the first place.

      I agree with you, grwurston. A player should just sit down and really ask themselves why the commissions need to draw FOUR TIMES from each chamber. They say that it's to protect the integrity of randomness and to ensure the machines are working properly but, I disagree. Once they go into their 'secret room' all they need to do is fire the 'ball agitator' up, allow the balls to circulate for 30 seconds to a minute, and then draw one from each chamber. If the machine malfunctions on that draw for whatever reason, THEN, switch machines. End of story. They're putting too much emphasis on the ball set and a single ball being drawn repeatedly in one chamber. Well, hell, they're only (10) balls and they're drawing nearly half of them on the premise of seeing if ONE will repeat ALL FOUR TIMES. Really? I'd like to know just how many times a given state has actually had this happen...and I still call BS  on the whole deal. 

      Doing pre tests to make sure the machines work properly is a BS   excuse. As stated in the OP, the lotteries already have procedures in place in case of a malfunction.  Okay fine, IF the machine screws up, follow the procedure and move on. End of story.

      It's like going out at night and starting your car every 15 minutes, because you want to make sure it will start when you leave for work in the morning. There's no guarantee it will start when you leave. Same thing with the pre-tests. 

      Just have one draw and what happens, happens. They only do it to prevent trends and patterns from forming that the players can use to their advantage.

      When Terry Rich was here a few months backs, the topic turned to Tipton fixing the lottery draws and Terry made the comment, "Ball drawings can be fixed too." But nothing came up after that regarding his comment, maybe due to the time factor, but I wish it had. So maybe the pre- tests have something to do with that.

      Here is the link to his comment.  Pay attention to his 2nd and 4th sentences.

      https://www.lotterypost.com/thread/298227/4430350

      "You can observe a lot just by watching." Yogi Berra, Hall of Fame baseball player.

      The numbers will tell you what numbers to play. Pay attention to the numbers.

      Don't just think outside the box, crush it.

        amber123's avatar - OpIFNim

        United States
        Member #164727
        March 12, 2015
        2512 Posts
        Offline
        Posted: June 24, 2016, 10:29 pm - IP Logged

        What awesome replies, and contacting them to fess up, we know they won't, but it's nice to know they're reading this and realizing they can't fool us.. 

        I want to start a petition. Dr65 was on the money, we pay for a service WE think is fair and random, not how they think random is defined. 

        The only thing I can end this with is that we must find a way to beat them at their own game. The way I do it is to bet somewhere else. I need all the edge I can get my hands on, thanks to the Florida Lottery's decision to act stupid. 

        Hopefully people will wake up and boycott. 

          amber123's avatar - OpIFNim

          United States
          Member #164727
          March 12, 2015
          2512 Posts
          Offline
          Posted: June 24, 2016, 11:07 pm - IP Logged

          What awesome replies, and contacting them to fess up, we know they won't, but it's nice to know they're reading this and realizing they can't fool us.. 

          I want to start a petition. Dr65 was on the money, we pay for a service WE think is fair and random, not how they think random is defined. 

          The only thing I can end this with is that we must find a way to beat them at their own game. The way I do it is to bet somewhere else. I need all the edge I can get my hands on, thanks to the Florida Lottery's decision to act stupid. 

          Hopefully people will wake up and boycott. 

          Edit: and contacting them to fess up, we know they won't,

           

          I meant that their answer was insufficient. They did reply.

          I enjoy Wild Turkey 101. Cheers

            helpmewin's avatar - dandy
            u$a
            United States
            Member #106665
            February 22, 2011
            19754 Posts
            Offline
            Posted: June 25, 2016, 8:30 am - IP Logged

            Maybe this testing will be better for the players.

            Let it Snow Snowman

              eddessaknight's avatar - nw paladin.jpg
              LAS VEGAS
              United States
              Member #47729
              November 22, 2006
              4494 Posts
              Online
              Posted: June 25, 2016, 3:12 pm - IP Logged

              What awesome replies, and contacting them to fess up, we know they won't, but it's nice to know they're reading this and realizing they can't fool us.. 

              I want to start a petition. Dr65 was on the money, we pay for a service WE think is fair and random, not how they think random is defined. 

              The only thing I can end this with is that we must find a way to beat them at their own game. The way I do it is to bet somewhere else. I need all the edge I can get my hands on, thanks to the Florida Lottery's decision to act stupid. 

              Hopefully people will wake up and boycott. 

              AYE & AMEN TO THAT AMBER

              LOTTERY: 'LOVE ON THE ROCKS'  Emoji

              "The water cannot talk without the rocks,"                                                               ~ James Richardson

               

              In Vegas , it's been historically known the only way to extract the truth from game operators is via a court order & or by a 45 caliber Wink

               

              Fortes Fortuna & Harmonia Juvat

              Eddessa_Knight w/Light Sun Smiley

                Lucky Loser's avatar - bucks
                Texas
                United States
                Member #86154
                January 30, 2010
                1648 Posts
                Offline
                Posted: June 25, 2016, 5:54 pm - IP Logged

                I cannot help but to still refer back to my casino scenario where no such method exists. These commissions are preempting the possible draw results based on cycling the numbers through in my opinion. Pre-tests directly affect what happens between the last official draw and the next one by cycling the balls through multiple times, and, it's based on the law of repetition. Just take your time and pick a given state's draw history, along with its' pre-tests, to see how often a single digit repeats in the same position, then two digits, and then the exact same combo. These are not accidents in my opinion and are pretty much non-existent from one truly random draw to the next. You will find, on occasion in pre-tests, where a digit will repeat itself in the same position but, when pairs and entire combos show up again it's time to call BS. I've seen where a digit has repeated up to FOUR TIMES in the SAME POSITION from one OFFICIAL DRAW to the next. Well, hell, what's the difference in that and a number showing up FOUR TIMES in a row during PRE-TESTS??? See, this is the type of BS that runs my oil pressure way up 'cause they think people are foolish but, the people can show 'em just who's in charge if they'd only come together. Okay, I need a drink now. Time for a Washington Apple...(Crown Apple and Cranberry). LOL

                Small games, frequent wins, and regular payouts 'cause.....

                There are seven days in the week...'Someday' isn't one of them.

                #lotto-4-a-living

                  Avatar
                  Kentucky
                  United States
                  Member #32652
                  February 14, 2006
                  7298 Posts
                  Offline
                  Posted: June 25, 2016, 8:26 pm - IP Logged

                  I cannot help but to still refer back to my casino scenario where no such method exists. These commissions are preempting the possible draw results based on cycling the numbers through in my opinion. Pre-tests directly affect what happens between the last official draw and the next one by cycling the balls through multiple times, and, it's based on the law of repetition. Just take your time and pick a given state's draw history, along with its' pre-tests, to see how often a single digit repeats in the same position, then two digits, and then the exact same combo. These are not accidents in my opinion and are pretty much non-existent from one truly random draw to the next. You will find, on occasion in pre-tests, where a digit will repeat itself in the same position but, when pairs and entire combos show up again it's time to call BS. I've seen where a digit has repeated up to FOUR TIMES in the SAME POSITION from one OFFICIAL DRAW to the next. Well, hell, what's the difference in that and a number showing up FOUR TIMES in a row during PRE-TESTS??? See, this is the type of BS that runs my oil pressure way up 'cause they think people are foolish but, the people can show 'em just who's in charge if they'd only come together. Okay, I need a drink now. Time for a Washington Apple...(Crown Apple and Cranberry). LOL

                  "I cannot help but to still refer back to my casino scenario where no such method exists. "

                  If you played Craps you would know the shooter has to pick two dice out of five or six. Roulette dealers randomly spins the ball clock wise or counter clock wise and that's after wheels are routinely checked for balance. Eight decks of cards are changed on Blackjack tables and decks are changed at least once a shift on other card games.

                  If you complain about the casino process, what do you think they will tell you?

                  "pre-tests, where a digit will repeat itself in the same position but, when pairs and entire combos show up again it's time to call  BS"

                  Some state lotteries have over $1 billion in annual sales and you believe they care what you call their processes. ROFL

                  You (or nobody else) have offered an explanation of how Florida or any other state's testing prevents any of the 1000 three digits combos from being drawn. It's really simple; if you don't like the testing, don't play.

                    CARBOB's avatar - FL LOTTERY_LOGO.png
                    ORLANDO, FLORIDA
                    United States
                    Member #4924
                    June 3, 2004
                    5893 Posts
                    Offline
                    Posted: June 26, 2016, 8:36 am - IP Logged

                    "I cannot help but to still refer back to my casino scenario where no such method exists. "

                    If you played Craps you would know the shooter has to pick two dice out of five or six. Roulette dealers randomly spins the ball clock wise or counter clock wise and that's after wheels are routinely checked for balance. Eight decks of cards are changed on Blackjack tables and decks are changed at least once a shift on other card games.

                    If you complain about the casino process, what do you think they will tell you?

                    "pre-tests, where a digit will repeat itself in the same position but, when pairs and entire combos show up again it's time to call  BS"

                    Some state lotteries have over $1 billion in annual sales and you believe they care what you call their processes. ROFL

                    You (or nobody else) have offered an explanation of how Florida or any other state's testing prevents any of the 1000 three digits combos from being drawn. It's really simple; if you don't like the testing, don't play.

                    "Some state lotteries have over $1 billion in annual sales and you believe they care what you call their processes. ROFL

                    You (or nobody else) have offered an explanation of how Florida or any other state's testing prevents any of the 1000 three digits combos from being drawn. It's really simple; if you don't like the testing, don't play."

                     

                    Why does this part of your post, gives me the impression, you are a Tn Lottery Employee?

                    From FL Lottery

                    (e) For CASH 3?, five test draws will be conducted. If the same digit is selected three times during the five draws, three additional test draws will be conducted. If the same digit is selected two additional times, an alternative ball set shall be used. 

                    Do you know the probability of this happening?

                    Let's say 7 happens, then the probability it will repeat is 1/100 or 1% since there is only one way the 7 can repeat as 7 7; there are 99 other ways it does not.

                    Next it's 7 7, then the probability it will be 7 7 7 is 1/1000 or 0.1% since 7 7 7 can only happen one way and there are 999 other ways it does not. The same as all Cash 3 Combos.

                    This has only happen 54 times in all draws mid and eve, since 5/19/08. why would anyone bother with such minuscule data, There has to be a motive, for so much concern with such a small stat.

                    One more it's 7 7 7, then the probability it will be 7 7 7 7 is 1/10000 or 0.01% since 7 7 7 7 can happen one way and there are 9999 other ways it does not.

                    This has only happen 3 times during same time span.

                    Jadelottery was kind enough to supply the data.

                      amber123's avatar - OpIFNim

                      United States
                      Member #164727
                      March 12, 2015
                      2512 Posts
                      Offline
                      Posted: June 26, 2016, 3:16 pm - IP Logged

                      "I cannot help but to still refer back to my casino scenario where no such method exists. "

                      If you played Craps you would know the shooter has to pick two dice out of five or six. Roulette dealers randomly spins the ball clock wise or counter clock wise and that's after wheels are routinely checked for balance. Eight decks of cards are changed on Blackjack tables and decks are changed at least once a shift on other card games.

                      If you complain about the casino process, what do you think they will tell you?

                      "pre-tests, where a digit will repeat itself in the same position but, when pairs and entire combos show up again it's time to call  BS"

                      Some state lotteries have over $1 billion in annual sales and you believe they care what you call their processes. ROFL

                      You (or nobody else) have offered an explanation of how Florida or any other state's testing prevents any of the 1000 three digits combos from being drawn. It's really simple; if you don't like the testing, don't play.

                      If you played Craps you would know the shooter has to pick two dice out of five or six. Roulette dealers randomly spins the ball clock wise or counter clock wise and that's after wheels are routinely checked for balance. Eight decks of cards are changed on Blackjack tables and decks are changed at least once a shift on other card games.

                      If you complain about the casino process, what do you think they will tell you?

                       

                       

                       

                      If you played Craps you would know the shooter has to pick two dice out of five or six.

                      What a horrible analogy you wrote above. Every time you respond to these issues, you make a bigger fool of yourself.

                      The shooter picks 2 dice out of five or six. Well that's fine, but the dealer doesn't say to the shooter, the first 5 rolls won't count, we must make sure those dice aren't rigged..., okay, now you can roll the dice for the official result...Hit With Stick....Oh wait, after you finish throwing the dice in the official roll, then you must throw the dice another five times after to make sure the dice weren't doctored during this round.  Bash

                      REALLY????...Your analogy sucks. Stop digging at the bottom of the barrel because you're going to make a hole, and there won't be anything left to dig.

                       

                       

                      Roulette dealers randomly spins the ball clock wise or counter clock wise and that's after wheels are routinely checked for balance.

                      Another moronic comment. Again, the dealer doesn't test-spin the wheel 5 times before and after an official spin. You say... what would the casino say if people complained, well I guarantee you not one person who show up If they pulled that crap. I urge you to go back on your meds.Smash

                       

                       

                       

                       

                      Eight decks of cards are changed on Blackjack tables and decks are changed at least once a shift on other card games.

                      Do you really want me to embarrass you again? Okay folks, ready?....Oh wait, we first have to deal the cards to all of you 6 players at this table, but they won't count because this is a pre test to make sure there aren't 5 aces in the deck, and then we'll play for real. Also, after this round, we'll have to play another 5 MOCK games, why?...oh...because we're dumb. Crazy....The game would take 4 hours to finish...really??????????????????

                       

                      I guarantee you If they pulled this crap, they would be out of business faster than you can say "I'm an idiot". Puke

                        grwurston's avatar - Cute animals_Spider.jpg
                        Winning makes me smile.
                        bel air maryland
                        United States
                        Member #90251
                        April 24, 2010
                        4861 Posts
                        Online
                        Posted: June 26, 2016, 3:50 pm - IP Logged

                        "Some state lotteries have over $1 billion in annual sales and you believe they care what you call their processes. ROFL

                        You (or nobody else) have offered an explanation of how Florida or any other state's testing prevents any of the 1000 three digits combos from being drawn. It's really simple; if you don't like the testing, don't play."

                         

                        Why does this part of your post, gives me the impression, you are a Tn Lottery Employee?

                        From FL Lottery

                        (e) For CASH 3?, five test draws will be conducted. If the same digit is selected three times during the five draws, three additional test draws will be conducted. If the same digit is selected two additional times, an alternative ball set shall be used. 

                        Do you know the probability of this happening?

                        Let's say 7 happens, then the probability it will repeat is 1/100 or 1% since there is only one way the 7 can repeat as 7 7; there are 99 other ways it does not.

                        Next it's 7 7, then the probability it will be 7 7 7 is 1/1000 or 0.1% since 7 7 7 can only happen one way and there are 999 other ways it does not. The same as all Cash 3 Combos.

                        This has only happen 54 times in all draws mid and eve, since 5/19/08. why would anyone bother with such minuscule data, There has to be a motive, for so much concern with such a small stat.

                        One more it's 7 7 7, then the probability it will be 7 7 7 7 is 1/10000 or 0.01% since 7 7 7 7 can happen one way and there are 9999 other ways it does not.

                        This has only happen 3 times during same time span.

                        Jadelottery was kind enough to supply the data.

                        why would anyone bother with such minuscule data, There has to be a motive, for so much concern with such a small stat.

                        If it's such a small stat, then why are they so concerned with it? Why would they feel the need to run additional tests when it  happens? Wouldn't it be totally random? That's what they claim every thing is, right? The only reason to do additional tests, would be to prevent a digit from going on a hot streak which the players might pick up on. In which case they are trying to prevent random.

                        And what about weighing the balls?

                        (11)  Following removal of the balls from the drawing machine, the ball set will be weighed. If the weight of the ball set differs from the pre-draw weight by more than 1 gram or is outside of the tolerance range provided by the manufacturer, the ball set will be secured and delivered to the Lottery's Division of Security for investigation. 

                        So, can someone please explain (preferably a lottery official... we know you're here) how with all this security in place, with all the witnesses, and the video taping that goes on, how the weight of the balls is going to change in the time frame between the pre-test draws, the official draw, and the post draw tests.

                        The only way it could happen would be for someone to wait until after the balls are weighed, swap them out before the  official draw, then swap them back before the post draw test. Unless every one in the room was in on it, it ain't gonna happen. And if they are in on it then, "Houston, we have a problem!"

                        "You can observe a lot just by watching." Yogi Berra, Hall of Fame baseball player.

                        The numbers will tell you what numbers to play. Pay attention to the numbers.

                        Don't just think outside the box, crush it.

                          Lucky Loser's avatar - bucks
                          Texas
                          United States
                          Member #86154
                          January 30, 2010
                          1648 Posts
                          Offline
                          Posted: June 27, 2016, 2:16 am - IP Logged

                          "I cannot help but to still refer back to my casino scenario where no such method exists. "

                          If you played Craps you would know the shooter has to pick two dice out of five or six. Roulette dealers randomly spins the ball clock wise or counter clock wise and that's after wheels are routinely checked for balance. Eight decks of cards are changed on Blackjack tables and decks are changed at least once a shift on other card games.

                          If you complain about the casino process, what do you think they will tell you?

                          "pre-tests, where a digit will repeat itself in the same position but, when pairs and entire combos show up again it's time to call  BS"

                          Some state lotteries have over $1 billion in annual sales and you believe they care what you call their processes. ROFL

                          You (or nobody else) have offered an explanation of how Florida or any other state's testing prevents any of the 1000 three digits combos from being drawn. It's really simple; if you don't like the testing, don't play.

                          Stack, come on now...it's me. You and I have discussed this before along with many other current and former members. Have you ever stopped to realize that so many new members come here and re-open this same discussion over and over again? It's happening for a reason, my friend. I'm not not trying start or enhance any existing confusion already here but, I tend to fully concur with amber and her analogy which piggy-backs my casino assertion, okay. 

                          If you complain about the casino process, what do you think they will tell you?

                          I'll tell you what, go to your local casino and see how it operates each of the games you mentioned in your reply to me, okay. When you go to the Craps table, allow them to roll the dice (4) times and tell you that none of those rolls count after you've seen that you've hit (7) or (11) on the first (come out)roll, same thing on the second roll, and say (5) and (3) on the last two rolls. Then, on the 'official roll', you end up with another (5). What you're telling me is that you'd be perfectly fine with this even after they've shown you that your numbers won. (7) and (11) are, in fact, your numbers in this game, okay. I find it hard to believe that you'd give 'em a pass on that. Now, let's look at Roulette. You arrive at the table, place your bet on 'even numbers', and the ball lands on even. You win big but, that was a 'pre-spin.' I'm not gonna go any further with the last (3) 'pre-spins' because I honestly feel you'd leave after the first one and probably complain. Now, for Black Jack. You sit down at the table with your favorite drink and are feeling pretty good....nice and tipsy. The dealer shuffles the cards a few times and then deals a hand...you have a 'straight' on your first deal but, he takes it back and says, "That was the first 'pre-deal." You're telling me that you'd be perfectly fine with that and simply move on to the next 'pre-deal' with no beef?

                          Every form of gambling is based solely on the 'law of repetition.' How soon will a particular winning event happen again...what are the chances? When pre-tests, pre-rolls, pre-deals, and pre-spins are injected into the deal, then you're actually decreasing the probability of coming out ahead in my opinion. Have you ever shot a basketball and it became perfectly wedged in between the rim and the back board??? Yeah, this is my point...it ain't gonna happen AGAIN no matter how hard you practice and try to repeat it. It was perfect ON THAT PARTICULAR SHOT. The commissions need to allow whatever happens to happen from one 'clean draw' to the next one with no pre or post tests. 

                          It's really simple; if you don't like the testing, don't play.

                          This seems to be the going attitude but, I think it may be a bit too ballsy as stated before because, it's the players that make these games SUCCESSFUL in the first place. You are aware that WE actually own the games...right? We INVEST in these games every single day, okay...OUR MONEY makes it possible for 'em to exist. They can offer whatever they want but, if they have no players then things come to a halt and they must launch a Q&A on what's wrong with the game. My, my, my...players really don't know just how much power they really have in this. I can promise you that any lottery official reading my post is hemorrhaging right now because all the projects that are funded...WE pay for when we gamble. Sure, some of it goes to education but, have a looksie at Texas' breakdown:

                          http://www.kcbd.com/story/14579932/kcbd-investigates-is-the-tx-lottery-really-funding-education

                          That was from way back in the day. In my opinion, they need to overhaul both Powerball and MM's to where players are seeing better returns at some point to make it more worth their while for dropping the coin on it. They'll NEVER go broke and will still turn plenty in profit but, THE INVESTORS (US) need to feel like they're more inclusive in this deal. OUR money is HARD to come by while theirs is simply a matter of US filling out a play slip. Let that soak in, okay. We're still friends and can talk this out but, I'm pretty solid in my position.Smash

                          Small games, frequent wins, and regular payouts 'cause.....

                          There are seven days in the week...'Someday' isn't one of them.

                          #lotto-4-a-living

                            Lucky Loser's avatar - bucks
                            Texas
                            United States
                            Member #86154
                            January 30, 2010
                            1648 Posts
                            Offline
                            Posted: June 27, 2016, 5:37 pm - IP Logged

                            Stack, come on now...it's me. You and I have discussed this before along with many other current and former members. Have you ever stopped to realize that so many new members come here and re-open this same discussion over and over again? It's happening for a reason, my friend. I'm not not trying start or enhance any existing confusion already here but, I tend to fully concur with amber and her analogy which piggy-backs my casino assertion, okay. 

                            If you complain about the casino process, what do you think they will tell you?

                            I'll tell you what, go to your local casino and see how it operates each of the games you mentioned in your reply to me, okay. When you go to the Craps table, allow them to roll the dice (4) times and tell you that none of those rolls count after you've seen that you've hit (7) or (11) on the first (come out)roll, same thing on the second roll, and say (5) and (3) on the last two rolls. Then, on the 'official roll', you end up with another (5). What you're telling me is that you'd be perfectly fine with this even after they've shown you that your numbers won. (7) and (11) are, in fact, your numbers in this game, okay. I find it hard to believe that you'd give 'em a pass on that. Now, let's look at Roulette. You arrive at the table, place your bet on 'even numbers', and the ball lands on even. You win big but, that was a 'pre-spin.' I'm not gonna go any further with the last (3) 'pre-spins' because I honestly feel you'd leave after the first one and probably complain. Now, for Black Jack. You sit down at the table with your favorite drink and are feeling pretty good....nice and tipsy. The dealer shuffles the cards a few times and then deals a hand...you have a 'straight' on your first deal but, he takes it back and says, "That was the first 'pre-deal." You're telling me that you'd be perfectly fine with that and simply move on to the next 'pre-deal' with no beef?

                            Every form of gambling is based solely on the 'law of repetition.' How soon will a particular winning event happen again...what are the chances? When pre-tests, pre-rolls, pre-deals, and pre-spins are injected into the deal, then you're actually decreasing the probability of coming out ahead in my opinion. Have you ever shot a basketball and it became perfectly wedged in between the rim and the back board??? Yeah, this is my point...it ain't gonna happen AGAIN no matter how hard you practice and try to repeat it. It was perfect ON THAT PARTICULAR SHOT. The commissions need to allow whatever happens to happen from one 'clean draw' to the next one with no pre or post tests. 

                            It's really simple; if you don't like the testing, don't play.

                            This seems to be the going attitude but, I think it may be a bit too ballsy as stated before because, it's the players that make these games SUCCESSFUL in the first place. You are aware that WE actually own the games...right? We INVEST in these games every single day, okay...OUR MONEY makes it possible for 'em to exist. They can offer whatever they want but, if they have no players then things come to a halt and they must launch a Q&A on what's wrong with the game. My, my, my...players really don't know just how much power they really have in this. I can promise you that any lottery official reading my post is hemorrhaging right now because all the projects that are funded...WE pay for when we gamble. Sure, some of it goes to education but, have a looksie at Texas' breakdown:

                            http://www.kcbd.com/story/14579932/kcbd-investigates-is-the-tx-lottery-really-funding-education

                            That was from way back in the day. In my opinion, they need to overhaul both Powerball and MM's to where players are seeing better returns at some point to make it more worth their while for dropping the coin on it. They'll NEVER go broke and will still turn plenty in profit but, THE INVESTORS (US) need to feel like they're more inclusive in this deal. OUR money is HARD to come by while theirs is simply a matter of US filling out a play slip. Let that soak in, okay. We're still friends and can talk this out but, I'm pretty solid in my position.Smash

                            Now, for Black Jack. You sit down at the table with your favorite drink and are feeling pretty good....nice and tipsy. The dealer shuffles the cards a few times and then deals a hand...you have a 'straight'

                            Man, I got roasted today on this! "Hey, I didn't know you could get a straight in Black Jack!!! Is it like a 'straight twenty-one flush'? Does this also mean that you keep rolling in Craps until you get closest to twenty-one or bust? If I spin a seven or eleven in Roulette on the first spin, what does that pay? I've never crapped out in Poker, man!!"

                             I deserved it for not paying more attention but, it was all in good fun and I'm able to laugh at myself here...right along with others.LOL

                            Small games, frequent wins, and regular payouts 'cause.....

                            There are seven days in the week...'Someday' isn't one of them.

                            #lotto-4-a-living

                              grwurston's avatar - Cute animals_Spider.jpg
                              Winning makes me smile.
                              bel air maryland
                              United States
                              Member #90251
                              April 24, 2010
                              4861 Posts
                              Online
                              Posted: June 27, 2016, 6:24 pm - IP Logged

                              Now, for Black Jack. You sit down at the table with your favorite drink and are feeling pretty good....nice and tipsy. The dealer shuffles the cards a few times and then deals a hand...you have a 'straight'

                              Man, I got roasted today on this! "Hey, I didn't know you could get a straight in Black Jack!!! Is it like a 'straight twenty-one flush'? Does this also mean that you keep rolling in Craps until you get closest to twenty-one or bust? If I spin a seven or eleven in Roulette on the first spin, what does that pay? I've never crapped out in Poker, man!!"

                               I deserved it for not paying more attention but, it was all in good fun and I'm able to laugh at myself here...right along with others.LOL

                              Yeah, I was  thinking,   What?  "How can I get a straight with only 2 cards."  Hmm,  Blue Thinking.   That was a good one.  Green laugh Green laugh

                              "You can observe a lot just by watching." Yogi Berra, Hall of Fame baseball player.

                              The numbers will tell you what numbers to play. Pay attention to the numbers.

                              Don't just think outside the box, crush it.