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Do you Believe Lotteries are Random?

Topic closed. 79 replies. Last post 8 years ago by pick4hawk.

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DeeSpence's avatar - Lottery-040.jpg
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Atlanta, GA
United States
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March 20, 2009
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Posted: March 24, 2009, 1:31 pm - IP Logged

So, what's up with the word random? Why all the confusion? As with most words, over use and misuse of the word tends to dilute its meaning. Over the years, scientists, mathematicians and engineers have misused the word random by automatically applying it to any observation or analysis that was too complex to describe with simple mathematical formulas. In almost knee jerk fashion, anything they didn't understand and couldn't explain must be random.

Over the last forty years, state sponsored lotteries have trumpeted the random draw theory; everyone has the same chance to win and nobody has an advantage. If this were true, why have the lotteries been trying to make their random games of chance, MORE RANDOM? Isn't random, random?

The answer is NO. In fact, in recent years, the concept of lottery randomness has been challenged and, like the casinos, the lotteries have responded with various actions. First, any possible mechanical advantage due to lotto ball design was addressed. The lotto ball was made more uniform. The numbers were no longer painted on the lotto balls because this unbalanced the ball. Air blower design was improved and motor speed was regulated to insure air speed did not vary with power fluctuations. Multiple machines were used and selected at random for each drawing. This has had the effect of making the lotteries appear more random. You see, random doesn't mean that trends do not exist; it simply means that trends are hard to identify.

Wow! Well said.

There are millionaires and billionaires, so why aren't there any hundredaires? Things that make you say hmm.

    DeeSpence's avatar - Lottery-040.jpg
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    Atlanta, GA
    United States
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    Posted: March 24, 2009, 1:36 pm - IP Logged

    There are 220 pick 3 boxed combos.  Only 10 are all odd.  Only 10 are all even.  Only 10 are series, etc., etc., etc. 

    The things you are pointing out actually PROVE that the draws are random!!

    I figured I would get something like this. I think its funny. I don't argue, I just keep banking my bucks. But I can tell what your statement doesn't explain. How often and how many times does a number skip before it hits. For example the number 1 could skip two drawings and hit 120 times and the number 3 could skip two drawings and hit only 46 times. This is something your above statment can't explain. If you had the number 1 and the number 3 out 2 games, which one would you play??

     

    Oh my bag, you would get the quik pick....

     

    Well keep on quik picking sugar, you are only increasing my odds!

     

    What happens most often usually happens, and what happens least often usually doesn't.

     

    In addition, what you said DEFINITELY doesn't contest the fact of how often a number repeats from the previous drawing. In fact, it actually proves that they CANT be random. If random, why the need to repeat a number from the previous drawing most of the time. If what you are saying is true then there would be NO need to repeat a number from the previous drawing more than 80% of the time.

     

    Thanks!

    There are millionaires and billionaires, so why aren't there any hundredaires? Things that make you say hmm.

      DeeSpence's avatar - Lottery-040.jpg
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      Atlanta, GA
      United States
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      Posted: March 24, 2009, 1:38 pm - IP Logged

      It's possible to predict with some degree of accuracy a future random event. Its possible to look at past events to know what will happen in the future. So I dont think any lottery can be totally random.

      Interesting way to look at it. I guess I never thought of it that way.

      There are millionaires and billionaires, so why aren't there any hundredaires? Things that make you say hmm.

        Avatar

        United Kingdom
        Member #70630
        February 7, 2009
        734 Posts
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        Posted: March 24, 2009, 1:41 pm - IP Logged

        So, what's up with the word random? Why all the confusion? As with most words, over use and misuse of the word tends to dilute its meaning. Over the years, scientists, mathematicians and engineers have misused the word random by automatically applying it to any observation or analysis that was too complex to describe with simple mathematical formulas. In almost knee jerk fashion, anything they didn't understand and couldn't explain must be random.

        Over the last forty years, state sponsored lotteries have trumpeted the random draw theory; everyone has the same chance to win and nobody has an advantage. If this were true, why have the lotteries been trying to make their random games of chance, MORE RANDOM? Isn't random, random?

        The answer is NO. In fact, in recent years, the concept of lottery randomness has been challenged and, like the casinos, the lotteries have responded with various actions. First, any possible mechanical advantage due to lotto ball design was addressed. The lotto ball was made more uniform. The numbers were no longer painted on the lotto balls because this unbalanced the ball. Air blower design was improved and motor speed was regulated to insure air speed did not vary with power fluctuations. Multiple machines were used and selected at random for each drawing. This has had the effect of making the lotteries appear more random. You see, random doesn't mean that trends do not exist; it simply means that trends are hard to identify.

        This member must be on the same wave length as myself, or do you get random frequencies also, anyone no, I expect you do if someone can't break the code.

        Sometimes we can't see the woods for tree's, " so we have to clear a path "

          DeeSpence's avatar - Lottery-040.jpg
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          Posted: March 24, 2009, 1:42 pm - IP Logged

          I'm having trouble connecting the two trains of thought.  Are you saying Tennessee players had their shot at easier predicting and complained about it instead?  I doubt the winners taking advantage of no doubles were the ones complaining.  As random means anything can happen within perameters, the Tenn Lottery didn't react quickly to the lack of doubles because it was randomly possible even if unlikely.  BobP

          Actually, that isn't so true. I study a number of lotteries, and in between TN, GA, FL, IL, CA, AZ, MI, and MO. TN has by far the most doubles and triples in their Pick 3 then I see in almost all other lotteries combined. It definitely makes me wonder if they didn't really do something after people complained. I did wonder why they appeared to have a lot more than other states. But I haven't studied all the states so not really sure if there are any others like them.

          There are millionaires and billionaires, so why aren't there any hundredaires? Things that make you say hmm.

            RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
            mid-Ohio
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            Posted: March 24, 2009, 1:59 pm - IP Logged

            Tennessee uses computers to simulate random drawings so they have to define random.  When you define random, it can be anything you want it to be.

            tiger chase butterfly

             * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
               
                         Evil Looking       

              Jack-C's avatar - us
              San Diego, CA
              United States
              Member #61467
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              Posted: March 24, 2009, 2:02 pm - IP Logged

              DeeSpence, I know you are convinced that the draws are not random and nothing I say will change your mind, but I just wanted to point out that I just looked at the last 100 draws (didn't include today's) for Georgia Midday.  Out of the 100 draws 55 had at least one repeat digit.  That is 55% not 80%.

              You point out that you won't argue, just keep banking the money, so I assume you have found the secret to the "non-randomness" of the lottery.  Congratulations and all the best to you.  I mean it.  I always rejoice when I see someone doing well.

              God Bless You.

                DeeSpence's avatar - Lottery-040.jpg
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                Atlanta, GA
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                Posted: March 24, 2009, 2:40 pm - IP Logged

                DeeSpence, I know you are convinced that the draws are not random and nothing I say will change your mind, but I just wanted to point out that I just looked at the last 100 draws (didn't include today's) for Georgia Midday.  Out of the 100 draws 55 had at least one repeat digit.  That is 55% not 80%.

                You point out that you won't argue, just keep banking the money, so I assume you have found the secret to the "non-randomness" of the lottery.  Congratulations and all the best to you.  I mean it.  I always rejoice when I see someone doing well.

                God Bless You.

                Jack I hate to argue, but love a good debate. And you opened up the door for one. I am trying to figure out which state's lottery you studied. Because I studied YOURS. California's right??? I choose your Daily 3 and checked your past midday and evening drawings. For the sake of avoiding an extremely long post, I am displaying the 48 drawings I studied. Rougly a month.

                Draw DateWinning NumbersREPEATS
                2/28/2009 M6 6 7
                2/28/2009 E0 9 9  9
                3/1/2009 M9 4 79
                3/1/2009 E5 5 33
                3/2/2009 M6 3 63
                3/2/2009 E2 3 9  3, 9
                3/3/2009 M9 1 49
                3/3/2009 E2 6 62
                3/4/2009 M2 4 02
                3/4/2009 E6 7 67
                3/5/2009 M4 4 74, 7
                3/5/2009 E4 0 64
                3/6/2009 M4 9 54
                3/6/2009 E3 6 8 
                3/7/2009 M9 2 11
                3/7/2009 E1 0 6  0, 1
                3/8/2009 M0 3 00
                3/8/2009 E8 1 6  8
                3/9/2009 M3 8 73, 8
                3/9/2009 E3 1 13
                3/10/2009 M0 9 20
                3/10/2009 E3 0 60, 3
                3/11/2009 M2 3 82, 3
                3/11/2009 E2 1 21, 2
                3/12/2009 M1 6 61
                3/12/2009 E3 8 11, 8
                3/13/2009 M1 8 91, 8
                3/13/2009 E0 0 3
                3/14/2009 M1 1 51, 1
                3/14/2009 E4 1 11, 1
                3/15/2009 M5 7 5
                3/15/2009 E3 8 6
                3/16/2009 M4 7 04
                3/16/2009 E3 4 54, 5
                3/17/2009 M5 6 75
                3/17/2009 E3 2 22
                3/18/2009 M0 2 92
                3/18/2009 E2 4 12
                3/19/2009 M3 0 33
                3/19/2009 E1 4 33
                3/20/2009 M7 3 73
                3/20/2009 E4 4 55
                3/21/2009 M5 1 15
                3/21/2009 E62 8 6
                3/22/2009 M7 1 66
                3/22/2009 E0 2 20, 2
                3/23/2009 M1 2 00, 2
                3/23/2009 E6 9 3

                 

                I would definitely say that is more than 80% of the time. Everyone else reading this post, go to the California Lottery's website to ensure I didn't doctor any dates and numbers. PLEASE check it for yourself.

                 

                Jack I thought you were a Christian. Im a Christian, and one of the commandents says, "Thou Shall Not Lie" But you just told a bold face lie, and I just proved it. This debate is definitely over. I have to debate with someone that has facts. I knew you weren't telling the truth with as fast as you came back with your response. You wouldn't have been able to study 100 numbers and come to that conclusion in only ten minutes.

                 

                Sorry, I've been doing this a long time.

                 

                But like I told you, keep on getting those Quik Picks. You just make the odds greater for me!

                There are millionaires and billionaires, so why aren't there any hundredaires? Things that make you say hmm.

                  Jack-C's avatar - us
                  San Diego, CA
                  United States
                  Member #61467
                  May 24, 2008
                  28146 Posts
                  Offline
                  Posted: March 24, 2009, 3:04 pm - IP Logged

                  I don't like being called a liar.  I will show you the Georgia Midday (that is what I said I used because you are in Georgia) draws that I used.  I think I may have miscounted.  I think it is 58 repeats.  Not a lie...a mistake.  BTW, I don't use quick picks, and how do you figure it makes the odds greater for you?  LOL

                  891
                  834
                  718
                  703
                  175
                  599
                  285
                  900
                  554
                  995
                  119
                  505
                  878
                  927
                  080
                  913
                  012
                  004
                  977
                  464
                  453
                  055
                  962
                  836
                  295
                  221
                  813
                  330
                  715
                  863
                  122
                  418
                  894
                  928
                  206
                  376
                  923
                  219
                  023
                  198
                  156
                  695
                  036
                  798
                  823
                  755
                  765
                  447
                  436
                  129
                  498
                  207
                  369
                  932
                  959
                  237
                  740
                  598
                  060
                  838
                  681
                  507
                  718
                  764
                  018
                  862
                  048
                  936
                  081
                  847
                  785
                  916
                  013
                  219
                  757
                  880
                  456
                  768
                  289
                  457
                  424
                  761
                  061
                  140
                  775
                  906
                  091
                  102
                  813
                  539
                  548
                  329
                  623
                  195
                  241
                  707
                  646
                  728
                  220
                  145

                  I have highlighted the draws that have at least one repeat.  What SHOULD the percentage be?  And, I am sure you won't share, but I don't see how even if it is 80% that helps predict the next number.

                    DeeSpence's avatar - Lottery-040.jpg
                    New Member
                    Atlanta, GA
                    United States
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                    Posted: March 24, 2009, 3:30 pm - IP Logged

                    I don't like being called a liar.  I will show you the Georgia Midday (that is what I said I used because you are in Georgia) draws that I used.  I think I may have miscounted.  I think it is 58 repeats.  Not a lie...a mistake.  BTW, I don't use quick picks, and how do you figure it makes the odds greater for you?  LOL

                    891
                    834
                    718
                    703
                    175
                    599
                    285
                    900
                    554
                    995
                    119
                    505
                    878
                    927
                    080
                    913
                    012
                    004
                    977
                    464
                    453
                    055
                    962
                    836
                    295
                    221
                    813
                    330
                    715
                    863
                    122
                    418
                    894
                    928
                    206
                    376
                    923
                    219
                    023
                    198
                    156
                    695
                    036
                    798
                    823
                    755
                    765
                    447
                    436
                    129
                    498
                    207
                    369
                    932
                    959
                    237
                    740
                    598
                    060
                    838
                    681
                    507
                    718
                    764
                    018
                    862
                    048
                    936
                    081
                    847
                    785
                    916
                    013
                    219
                    757
                    880
                    456
                    768
                    289
                    457
                    424
                    761
                    061
                    140
                    775
                    906
                    091
                    102
                    813
                    539
                    548
                    329
                    623
                    195
                    241
                    707
                    646
                    728
                    220
                    145

                    I have highlighted the draws that have at least one repeat.  What SHOULD the percentage be?  And, I am sure you won't share, but I don't see how even if it is 80% that helps predict the next number.

                    Well Jack-C you are a liar. LOL, and you keep proving my point. Where are your dates for the above drawings. Even still you forgot a few. I will highlight those in a different color and ensure that everyone can SEE the ones you clearly omitted, or you don't understand this pattern.

                     

                    891 The number 8 Repeats
                    834 The number 8 Repeats
                    718 The numbers 7, 8 Repeats
                    703 The number 7 Repeats
                    175 the numbers 5, 7 Repeat
                    599 the number 5 Repeats
                    285 The number 5 Repeats
                    900 No Repeats
                    554 the number 5 Repeats
                    995 The numbers 5, 9 Repeat
                    119 The number 9 Repeats
                    505 No Repeats
                    878 The number 7 Repeats
                    927 The number 7 Repeats
                    080 No Repeats
                    913 The number 1 Repeats
                    012 The numbers 0,1 Repeats
                    004 The number 0 Repeats 
                    977 No Repeats
                    464 The number 4 Repeats
                    453 The numbers 4, 5 Repeat
                    055 The number 5 repeats
                    962 The number 6 Repeats
                    836 The number 6 Repeat
                    295 The number 2 Repeats
                    221 The numbers 1, 2 Repeat
                    813 The number 3 Repeats
                    330 The number 3 Repeats
                    715 No Repeats
                    863 No Repeats
                    122 The number 1 Repeats
                    418 The numbers 1, 4, 8 Repeat
                    894 The numbers 4 8, 9 Repeat
                    928 The numbers 8, 9 Repeat
                    206 The number 6 Repeats
                    376 The numbers 3, 6 Repeat
                    923 The numbers 2, 3 Repeat
                    219 The number 2 Repeats
                    023 The number 2 Repeats
                    198 The number 1 repeats
                    156 The numbers 1, 5, 6 Repeats
                    695 The numbers 5, 6 Repeats
                    036 The number 6 Repeats
                    798 The number 8 Repeats
                    823 The number 8 Repeats
                    755 The numbers 5,7 Repeat
                    765 The numbers 5,7 Repeats
                    447 The number 4,7 Repeats
                    436 The number 4 Repeats
                    129 The number 9 Repeats
                    498 The number 9 Repeats
                    207 No Repeats
                    369 The numbers 3,9 Repeat
                    932 The numbers 3, 9 Repeat
                    959 The number 9 Repeats
                    237 The number 7 Repeats
                    740 The number 7 Repeats
                    598 No Repeats
                    060 No Repeats
                    838 The number 8 Repeats
                    681 The number 8 Repeats
                    507 The number 7 Repeats
                    718 The number 7 Repeats
                     764 The number 7 Repeats
                    018 The number 8 Repeats
                    862 The number 8 Repeats
                    048 The number 8 Repeats
                    936 No Repeats
                    081 The number 8 Repeats
                    847 The number 8 Repeats
                    785 The number 8 Repeats 
                    916 The number 1 Repeats
                    013 The number 1 Repeats
                    219 The number 1 Repeats 
                    757 No Repeat
                    880 No Repeat
                    456 No Repeat
                    768 The number 8 Repeats
                    289 The number 8 repeats
                    457 The Number 4 Repeats
                    424 The number 4 Repeats
                    761 The numbers 1, 6 Repeat
                    061 The numbers 0, 1 Repeat
                     140 The number 1 repeats
                    775 No Repeat
                    906 The numbers 0,9 Repeat
                    091 The numbers 0, 9 Repeat
                    102 The number 1 Repeats
                    813 The number 3 Repeats
                    539 The number 5 repeats
                    548 The number 5 repeats
                    329 The number 3 repeats
                    623 The number 3 repeats
                    195 The number 1 Repeats
                    241 The number 1 Repeats
                    707 No Repeat
                    646 No Repeat
                    728 The number 2 Repeats
                    220 The number 2 Repeats
                    145 No Repeat

                     

                    So with your posting you just helped prove my point further. So now I am not sure whether you were lying or just simply didn't understand the tip. I would prefer you say you didn't understand because anyone clearly seeing these posts can see who is telling the truth.

                     

                    Everyone I highlighted in RED either, you MISSED, didnt UNDERSTAND, or just thought we were plain STUPID. Clearly, anyone with eyes can see a REPEAT occurs AT LEAST 80% of the time.

                     

                    All the writing in the boxes are mine, so you can see, I didn't cheat. I put in the ones that hat NO REPEATS at all and anyone with eyes can clearly see its 80%. Sorry Jack, you need to let this one go. You are making yourself look more and more bad by the minute.

                     

                    But I appreciate you giving me the floor each time to prove the lotteries aren't as random as one would think.

                    There are millionaires and billionaires, so why aren't there any hundredaires? Things that make you say hmm.

                      Jack-C's avatar - us
                      San Diego, CA
                      United States
                      Member #61467
                      May 24, 2008
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                      Posted: March 24, 2009, 5:22 pm - IP Logged

                      The red highlighted show repeats where there was not a repeat in what I listed.  That is obvious.  So, the real problem is that you must be using a different data base.  I maintain my own databases and I do them Midday to Midday and Evening to Evening.  I think you don't and that explains the difference. 

                      I call it an honest mistake on my part.  I am sorry for the confusion and that you jumped to the quick conclusion that I had some agenda and was lying.  I wasn't. 

                      I will try to see how I can use the 80% or more repeats to my advantage.  Thank you for pointing it out.

                        DeeSpence's avatar - Lottery-040.jpg
                        New Member
                        Atlanta, GA
                        United States
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                        Posted: March 24, 2009, 10:40 pm - IP Logged

                        The red highlighted show repeats where there was not a repeat in what I listed.  That is obvious.  So, the real problem is that you must be using a different data base.  I maintain my own databases and I do them Midday to Midday and Evening to Evening.  I think you don't and that explains the difference. 

                        I call it an honest mistake on my part.  I am sorry for the confusion and that you jumped to the quick conclusion that I had some agenda and was lying.  I wasn't. 

                        I will try to see how I can use the 80% or more repeats to my advantage.  Thank you for pointing it out.

                        Yes Jack! I apologize for calling you a liar. I realized as I was doing the highlights that apparently it was just either an error in the way I explained it or how you were reading it. Either way, Im glad it's over, and yes you are right. I study every single drawing from Midday to Evening.

                        There are millionaires and billionaires, so why aren't there any hundredaires? Things that make you say hmm.

                          Jack-C's avatar - us
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                          May 24, 2008
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                          Posted: March 24, 2009, 10:45 pm - IP Logged

                          Yes Jack! I apologize for calling you a liar. I realized as I was doing the highlights that apparently it was just either an error in the way I explained it or how you were reading it. Either way, Im glad it's over, and yes you are right. I study every single drawing from Midday to Evening.

                          Thank you.  I'm also glad that is all over and straightened out.

                            tungsten chef's avatar - nw dwarf5.jpg
                            Winnipeg
                            Canada
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                            May 7, 2005
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                            Posted: March 24, 2009, 11:19 pm - IP Logged

                            not random. programmed. especially 2 draws a day states. isn't it funny how you'll be looking for something to pop in the day when it always comes out in the evening or vice versa. sure they might use different machines for the draws, but donuts to dollars they are linked somehow.

                            why does pair 80 keep coming up in virginia evening, but hasn't shown in almost 180 days in the midday draw?? right, it's all random.Big Smile

                              BobP's avatar - bobp avatar.png
                              Dump Water Florida
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                              Posted: March 25, 2009, 2:28 am - IP Logged

                              not random. programmed. especially 2 draws a day states. isn't it funny how you'll be looking for something to pop in the day when it always comes out in the evening or vice versa. sure they might use different machines for the draws, but donuts to dollars they are linked somehow.

                              why does pair 80 keep coming up in virginia evening, but hasn't shown in almost 180 days in the midday draw?? right, it's all random.Big Smile

                              I see 508 midday on 09/29/2008 that's roughly 150 days ago, with 45 possible pairs that's really only about 3 misses, not a huge amount. 

                              Some state you can call or contact the lottery to find out how daily number draws are conducted.   You can also check here . . .

                              http://www.lotterypost.com/lottery-report-card.asp

                              IMHO if the midday and evening draws are conducted the same way, you follow them that way.  If the midday draw is computer and the evening a balldrop you follow midday to midday, evening to evening.

                              With ball drop one hope is they won't bother changing out the machines for every draw or will change them from P3 to P4 or vice versa as a block.

                              The fact that ball drop P3 repeats a digit 80% of the time isn't big news around here.   It makes an excellent filter to eliminate some picks from play.

                              BobP