Kentucky United States Member #32652 February 14, 2006 7313 Posts Online

Posted: September 27, 2012, 9:10 pm - IP Logged

Quote: Originally posted by RJOh on September 27, 2012

If you're not sure why then why do you accept it as a fact? Has Stack actually reduced a 28 numbers wheel by 95% and matched 5 of 5?

Every time Ronnie matched five numbers, I entered his 28 numbers into various wheels using the same order he posted. And when he matched five numbers plus the bonus number, there was a five number match using a 4931 combo 4 if 4 covermaster wheel. While 4931 combos are not exactly a 95% reduction, maybe I should said a 94.98% reduction.

I know there is only one five number match in 5/28 matrix and some calculate the odds of 4931 combos matching five numbers as 98,280 to 4931 or 20 to 1, but when a 4 if 4 wheel matches five numbers, there are multiple four number matches. Any combination of 5 numbers produces 5 four number matches so the odds are 23 to 5 or 4.6 to 1. Because 4931 combos is not the minimum number of combos to get a 28 number 4 if 4 guarantee, it's possible to have more than 5 four number matches and reducing the odds even more. This 4 if 4 should average 6 four number matches when five of the numbers are drawn have a 1 in 3.83 chance.

I'm not saying I have a group of 28 numbers, a method to create a group that gets a 1 in 15 matching five number ratio, or am I playing 4931 combos, but just saying it's mathematically probable to break even or show a small profit using this method.

The object of using any 2 if 2, 3 if 3, 3 if 4, or 4 if 4 wheel is to match five, exceed the wheel guarantee, and possibly have a five number match. There are 10 three number matches in any combination of five numbers so a 3 if 3 wheel has 10 three number matches when five of the numbers are drawn. That's 20 chances that one of the two "extra" numbers drawn out of 25 will be with one of the three number matches creating a four number match. Odds of 23 to 20 makes having a four number match an almost even money bet.

The 2 if 2 wheel Ronnie is using has 10 two number matches when five numbers are drawn so he has 30 chances of matching three numbers. With odds of 23 to 30, that wheel is basically a 3 if 5 guarantee. The overall odds of 40 to 1 in MM are based on the chances of matching one of 40 bonus numbers, so if Ronnie uses 41 bonus numbers, winning something when matching zero numbers is almost a lock. A 46 combo 2 if 2 would guarantee it.

Considering the average MM player's wager is $5 or less, suggesting getting a better chance by playing $41 doesn't help them any and talking about wagering considerably more is useless info to them. Playing a 2 if 5 of 56 number wheel once a month is a better bet than $5 a drawing.

United States Member #116268 September 7, 2011 20244 Posts Offline

Posted: September 27, 2012, 9:42 pm - IP Logged

Absolutely right Stack, thanks for explaining all this again. It is amazing how many times people need to hear it before the "light comes on". (including myself)

Its hard for some people to comprehend an alternative (BETTER ODDS) to QPs (or a hand full of lines) here and there that are going to be the full 1 in 174 million odds every single line they play.

I was just looking at the LP 2 if 5 of 56 wheel which is 46 lines and at least has the promise of getting the bonus number if all 46 bonus numbers are played.

By posting the 2 if 2 wheel I'm using, it gives the order of input for the numbers. I just started a new idea today of playing a second 2 if 2 wheel with a random input of the numbers. I would rather put extra money on a LP wheel for MM with BETTER ODDS than on QP PB tickets.

United States Member #116268 September 7, 2011 20244 Posts Offline

Posted: September 27, 2012, 9:48 pm - IP Logged

Quote: Originally posted by RJOh on September 27, 2012

35 numbers can cover 324,632 combinations of five which is 8.5% of the 3,819,816 combinations that 56 numbers cover.

ThanksRJOh and Stack, that is very close to what I expected. I asked because the count I did of the 200 draws that RJOh posted showed about 20 of those hits, so the recent activity is just a bit above average.

I did notice that there were runs of 20 draws whithout a 5 of 5 hit, twice in those 200 draws so there may be some opportunity for a timing play at the end of a dry spell.

Kentucky United States Member #32652 February 14, 2006 7313 Posts Online

Posted: September 28, 2012, 9:06 pm - IP Logged

Quote: Originally posted by Ronnie316 on September 27, 2012

Absolutely right Stack, thanks for explaining all this again. It is amazing how many times people need to hear it before the "light comes on". (including myself)

Its hard for some people to comprehend an alternative (BETTER ODDS) to QPs (or a hand full of lines) here and there that are going to be the full 1 in 174 million odds every single line they play.

I was just looking at the LP 2 if 5 of 56 wheel which is 46 lines and at least has the promise of getting the bonus number if all 46 bonus numbers are played.

By posting the 2 if 2 wheel I'm using, it gives the order of input for the numbers. I just started a new idea today of playing a second 2 if 2 wheel with a random input of the numbers. I would rather put extra money on a LP wheel for MM with BETTER ODDS than on QP PB tickets.

Though I occasionally play QPs when the jackpots are high, I've always thought I could get better results picking my own numbers. Maybe it's a phobia I developed when Ohio first started lotto type games when they said "the machine can pick your numbers". It made me think I had to beat the 10 million to 1 plus odds that the machine would pick the right combo that matched another 10 plus million to 1 actual drawing.

When the Arizona Lottery machine gave out two duplicate sets of combos, they called it a glitch and I believe that means the machines aren't suppose to duplicate sold combinations. If that's true, the combos the machines pick "for us" are not from all the 175 million plus combos, but from the lessor number of unsold combos.

I've played the 2 if 5 wheel a couple of times and the best I had was a 2 + 1 match. Regardless of the bad results, it's still a fact the only thing preventing any player from matching five numbers is the order they enter all 56 numbers into the wheel and how they place the bonus numbers to win the jackpot. When Pumpi talked about how a Star Trek type "super computer" could always match the MM or PB winning numbers, it's possible if it could sort the extremely large number of possible orders into the correct order. Pumpi never explained how he thought it could match the five with the bonus numbers or how many lines needed to be played.

Since we don't have a super computer that can sort the possible "7.1099858780486345185404564746372e+74" orders, it's back to the drawing board.

United States Member #116268 September 7, 2011 20244 Posts Offline

Posted: September 28, 2012, 9:46 pm - IP Logged

When the glitch took place in AZ it wasn't just a random duplication of numbers. It was a player buying a large number of QP tickets for a group and the terminal spit out 2 tickets exactly the same for all 5 lines and all 5 bonus numbers. They never actually said if both tickets were valid but I assumed they were.

I really don't think it would be necessary for the software to avoid making duplicates as there are way too many combination to be of concern.