USA United States
Member #1,265
March 13, 2003
9,073 Posts Online
"Everyone's an immigrant here.The only real American is the Indian"
-Rene Ochart,doorman at Hotel Pierre in Manhattan
The vast majority are Legal Immigrants, as in the case of my great grandparents from a personal perspective.
Also someone claimed/owned the land before someone else so current ownership and legal boundaries are part of current society and are set forth in laws recognized internationally.
New Mexico United States
Member #12,305
March 10, 2005
2,984 Posts
Offline
They're able to be here, in part, because they work hard trying to better their lot. Many do so at a wage most US citizens don't find appealing doing jobs US citizens find even less appealing.
There'd be no job market, no means of them surviving here if more US citizens fit the same description.
I'd like to see them gone, see fewer people in the US.
I'd like to see it happen because US citizens were doing the jobs illegal aliens are doing as well as illegal aliens do those jobs.
I'd like to see US citizens doing those jobs and glad to have them at the wage illegals are paid.
But failing that, I wouldn't object to seeing US citizens who refuse to have jobs at that wage traded to Mexico and other contributing countries, one-for-one. Boxed up in busses and sent to Ciudad Juarez by the US Border Patrol for rehabilitation.
No matter when the ancestors of those citizen-exports arrived on this continent, pre, or post-Columbian. We need to keep the balance of trade equal, at least. Preferably even favorable.
Mexico and other 'backward' countries would be blessed with a lot of the advantages accrued by having all those legal US citizens of which we're all proud. And the US would continue to be blessed with a supply of good laborers.
Charlotte NC United States
Member #17,405
June 18, 2005
4,074 Posts
Offline
"Everyone's an immigrant here.The only real American is the Indian"
-Rene Ochart,doorman at Hotel Pierre in Manhattan
The vast majority are Legal Immigrants, as in the case of my great grandparents from a personal perspective.
Also someone claimed/owned the land before someone else so current ownership and legal boundaries are part of current society and are set forth in laws recognized internationally.
Yes Europeans pillaged, killed, destroyed, raped, enslaved, and made it into law. Segregation was written in the law. It was written into law that Indian couldn't speak their language. Black slaves couldn't speak their language or even use their given name.
It was written into law that black slaves were 1/5 of a human being and the record of their births were recorded with the live stock. After all they were property. It was written into law that Indians had to live on reservations or DIE! It was written into law that hundreds of Indians tribes were grouped together, tribe name taken away and they are now all called LUMBEES.
Insurance would be taken out on the slave ships for number of slaves. When there were too many slaves, they would throw them overboard and they would wash up on the shore. The ones that wouldn't eat, they would force food down their thoats with some type of instrument made especially for that.
It was written into law that blacks had to sit on the back of the bus OR GO TO JAIL AND BEATEN DOWN! That was not so long ago. It was SO against the law to give a slave a book. DEATH IF CAUGHT WITH A BOOK OR BEATEN DOWN.
Yes it was written into law that the black entertainers that we love so much like Sidney Pointer, Bill Cosby, Nat King Cole could not stay at the same hotel or ride on the same bus that the people they starred with did and when they came to events they had to use the back door. It was written into law. Not so long ago. God forbid drinking from a white's only water fountain. Not so long ago.
It was written into law that black couldn't attend the same school as whites. The black children books had 6 names already used and the binders torn and pages frayed and dog eared from dated books. It would have been OK it it had been equal. Not so long ago, but they were the legal boundaries that are part of current society and are set forth in laws. Many of the people who wrote these laws are still living today. Many of the people who suffered these cruelties are still living today.
It was written into law that a presidential candidate can use 1/5 of a vote for every slave that he had. It is STILL written into law that to be voted on every time it comes up to allow blacks to vote. Why is it still there? Oh, because it is the law.
I know, I know. This is American you can be what you want to be. Quit whining. It's a fair country right. There is no bigotry or institutionalized racism. The survivor of the fittest. All is fair in love and war. Quit living in the past. Not too much have changed. It just took on a different form. But only a person of color would think that right. Oh yeah, I'm a bleeding heart, pea pickin liberal.
Holocaust victims were lucky. Millions of them were just killed. Nuked with gas. The soot from the human bodies will float in the air like ash. Didn't want to use them for labor. One time thing. Let's just kill as many as we can to make a superior race. Americans are too civilized for that right.
Maybe American should have done like the Germans. Holocaust victims could start over because their skin was white. A person of color stick out like a sore thumb. Maybe the Europeans should have just killed all the blacks and Indians, rather than raping them, then it wouldn't be such a WHITE MAN'S BURDEN today. Oh no, that wouldn't have worked. Who would have done their hard labor work for them. I forgot. We fought a war over that didn't we? What is it that Americans want with the Mexicans? Oh yeah, do the jobs nobody else will do for the price.
Everything written into law does
not make it right.
But it is right, what am I thinking, it's the law. Right.
Who's law? Oh yeah, The people who pillaged, killed, destroyed,
United States
Member #4,877
May 30, 2004
5,289 Posts
Offline
Lucky 1313: I hate bigotry and detest racism. Some of the posts are filled with hate, but most are simply expressing a viewpoint. I am frustrated and do not think "illegal" aliens should be automatically given immunity and legal status. I believe in a Democracy where people follow the laws of the government they established. Living in Florida, I've seen how the Cuban people have established fine communities and contributed to the economy. But most of the illegals we are talking about do not want to move here and do not love America or its citizens. One man who was interviewed during the recent rally in Fort Myers said "I want to be able to work here and go home to Mexico whenever I want." He was waving a Mexican flag. They just want to come for the work and the benefits of a free society without paying the price. What other country in this world lets people do this? The fighting men and women you mentioned are paying the ultimate price and are American heroes.
BTW, what does everyone think of hearing the Star Spangled Banner in Spanish? Yup! It was on the radio. My grandfather was a Russian immigrant and did the work "Americans" don't want to do. After earning his citizenship, he would walk around singing patriotic songs. His English was poor and he never learned to read or write well but when he sang "God Bless America" it was in ENGLISH!!!
United States
Member #4,877
May 30, 2004
5,289 Posts
Offline
"Everyone's an immigrant here.The only real American is the Indian"
-Rene Ochart,doorman at Hotel Pierre in Manhattan
The vast majority are Legal Immigrants, as in the case of my great grandparents from a personal perspective.
Also someone claimed/owned the land before someone else so current ownership and legal boundaries are part of current society and are set forth in laws recognized internationally.
Yes Europeans pillaged, killed, destroyed, raped, enslaved, and made it into law. Segregation was written in the law. It was written into law that Indian couldn't speak their language. Black slaves couldn't speak their language or even use their given name.
It was written into law that black slaves were 1/5 of a human being and the record of their births were recorded with the live stock. After all they were property. It was written into law that Indians had to live on reservations or DIE! It was written into law that hundreds of Indians tribes were grouped together, tribe name taken away and they are now all called LUMBEES.
Insurance would be taken out on the slave ships for number of slaves. When there were too many slaves, they would throw them overboard and they would wash up on the shore. The ones that wouldn't eat, they would force food down their thoats with some type of instrument made especially for that.
It was written into law that blacks had to sit on the back of the bus OR GO TO JAIL AND BEATEN DOWN! That was not so long ago. It was SO against the law to give a slave a book. DEATH IF CAUGHT WITH A BOOK OR BEATEN DOWN.
Yes it was written into law that the black entertainers that we love so much like Sidney Pointer, Bill Cosby, Nat King Cole could not stay at the same hotel or ride on the same bus that the people they starred with did and when they came to events they had to use the back door. It was written into law. Not so long ago. God forbid drinking from a white's only water fountain. Not so long ago.
It was written into law that black couldn't attend the same school as whites. The black children books had 6 names already used and the binders torn and pages frayed and dog eared from dated books. It would have been OK it it had been equal. Not so long ago, but they were the legal boundaries that are part of current society and are set forth in laws. Many of the people who wrote these laws are still living today. Many of the people who suffered these cruelties are still living today.
It was written into law that a presidential candidate can use 1/5 of a vote for every slave that he had. It is STILL written into law that to be voted on every time it comes up to allow blacks to vote. Why is it still there? Oh, because it is the law.
I know, I know. This is American you can be what you want to be. Quit whining. It's a fair country right. There is no bigotry or institutionalized racism. The survivor of the fittest. All is fair in love and war. Quit living in the past. Not too much have changed. It just took on a different form. But only a person of color would think that right. Oh yeah, I'm a bleeding heart, pea pickin liberal.
Holocaust victims were lucky. Millions of them were just killed. Nuked with gas. The soot from the human bodies will float in the air like ash. Didn't want to use them for labor. One time thing. Let's just kill as many as we can to make a superior race. Americans are too civilized for that right.
Maybe American should have done like the Germans. Holocaust victims could start over because their skin was white. A person of color stick out like a sore thumb. Maybe the Europeans should have just killed all the blacks and Indians, rather than raping them, then it wouldn't be such a WHITE MAN'S BURDEN today. Oh no, that wouldn't have worked. Who would have done their hard labor work for them. I forgot. We fought a war over that didn't we? What is it that Americans want with the Mexicans? Oh yeah, do the jobs nobody else will do for the price.
Everything written into law does
not make it right.
But it is right, what am I thinking, it's the law. Right.
Who's law? Oh yeah, The people who pillaged, killed, destroyed,
United States
Member #17,554
June 22, 2005
5,582 Posts
Offline
For people who don't know, Black people in Africa owned black slaves hundreds of years before the white man did.
Just about every country in this world at one time or another had slavery.
But on the other note, I do agree that just because something that's made into law doesen't neccessarily make it right.
It is a shame how alot of white americans treated blacks before the civil rights movement. I don't know what they were thinking.
I don't think Holocaust victims were as lucky as you say. Alot of them were put in hot ovens alive.
Even though there are alot of contadictions in this country, there are still some basic laws that are not as cruel as the ones which were mentioned about other countries in the past. To compare the radical behavior of past lunatics in government with an immigration law today, is not the same in my opinion.
It's very simple, if you're not legal, you can't demand things. Try going to Mexico and demanding all the things that the illegals do here and see what happens. You'll be immediately put in jail, or something worse. On my way to Mexico a few years ago, someone told to me drive very carefully, because if you get into an accident, even if it wasn't your fault, you could very easily end up in jail, and maybe even detained for a an undisclosed amount of time.
It's not just mexicans. Here in Florida you have Hatians, and everyone in between.
I got a better Idea, let's just open the borders to everyone in the whole wild world. No questions asked. C'mon down.....Even terrorists want rights....right? They're very hard workers. They'll do all the dirty jobs that no american want to do, like blow up buildings. But then I think to myself that 911 was an inside job, created by the some of the people in high places who are part of the Illuminati. Looks like they're succeeding in creating turmoil in this country. Coincidence?
New Mexico United States
Member #12,305
March 10, 2005
2,984 Posts
Offline
Human beings of every description have raped, enslaved and pillaged human beings of every other description throughout human history. Including aboriginal Americans enslaving one another, killing, raping and pillaging one another. Including black Africans enslaving one another, killing raping pillaging one another. Asians, whites, anyone else who could get the upper hand over someone else.
There ain't any moral high ground to be found in what some long-dead human did to some other long-dead human, neither of whom anyone alive today even remembers. Any moral high-horse that suggests one breed of humans has any better grounds for complaint than any other is a lame high-horse. We all share a lousy history.
Those illegals are glad to get work US citizens believe they're too good for. That makes those illegals better for this country than an awfully lot of US citizens. They're workers willing to trade toil for life. They're not beggars trying to pry advantage out of the guilts and misfortunes of dead men. And they're not trying to ride through life on the empty rhetoric and guilt dreams rich people who think they're poor and get their jollies pointing out what some ancestor did to some other ancestor.
What happened a hundred years ago didn't happen to any of us. We were all born naked.
Charlotte NC United States
Member #17,405
June 18, 2005
4,074 Posts
Offline
Human beings of every description have raped, enslaved and pillaged human beings of every other description throughout human history. Including aboriginal Americans enslaving one another, killing, raping and pillaging one another. Including black Africans enslaving one another, killing raping pillaging one another. Asians, whites, anyone else who could get the upper hand over someone else.
There ain't any moral high ground to be found in what some long-dead human did to some other long-dead human, neither of whom anyone alive today even remembers. Any moral high-horse that suggests one breed of humans has any better grounds for complaint than any other is a lame high-horse. We all share a lousy history.
Those illegals are glad to get work US citizens believe they're too good for. That makes those illegals better for this country than an awfully lot of US citizens. They're workers willing to trade toil for life. They're not beggars trying to pry advantage out of the guilts and misfortunes of dead men. And they're not trying to ride through life on the empty rhetoric and guilt dreams rich people who think they're poor and get their jollies pointing out what some ancestor did to some other ancestor.
What happened a hundred years ago didn't happen to any of us. We were all born naked.
Jack
What happened a hundred years ago didn't happen to any of us.
USA United States
Member #1,265
March 13, 2003
9,073 Posts Online
Human beings of every description have raped, enslaved and pillaged human beings of every other description throughout human history. Including aboriginal Americans enslaving one another, killing, raping and pillaging one another. Including black Africans enslaving one another, killing raping pillaging one another. Asians, whites, anyone else who could get the upper hand over someone else.
There ain't any moral high ground to be found in what some long-dead human did to some other long-dead human, neither of whom anyone alive today even remembers. Any moral high-horse that suggests one breed of humans has any better grounds for complaint than any other is a lame high-horse. We all share a lousy history.
Those illegals are glad to get work US citizens believe they're too good for. That makes those illegals better for this country than an awfully lot of US citizens. They're workers willing to trade toil for life. They're not beggars trying to pry advantage out of the guilts and misfortunes of dead men. And they're not trying to ride through life on the empty rhetoric and guilt dreams rich people who think they're poor and get their jollies pointing out what some ancestor did to some other ancestor.
What happened a hundred years ago didn't happen to any of us. We were all born naked.
Jack
What happened a hundred years ago didn't happen to any of us.
Are you sure?
If we were reincarnated from someone who lived during that time perhaps. However, that has not been scientifically proven as a benchmark from which to work.
I personally believe it is possible but that doesn't make it a hard fact for everyone else, although we could be revisiting history in current time to see how we would handle the situation now..... so I'll leave speculation for an episode of the "Outer Limits."
United States
Member #17,554
June 22, 2005
5,582 Posts
Offline
Human beings of every description have raped, enslaved and pillaged human beings of every other description throughout human history. Including aboriginal Americans enslaving one another, killing, raping and pillaging one another. Including black Africans enslaving one another, killing raping pillaging one another. Asians, whites, anyone else who could get the upper hand over someone else.
There ain't any moral high ground to be found in what some long-dead human did to some other long-dead human, neither of whom anyone alive today even remembers. Any moral high-horse that suggests one breed of humans has any better grounds for complaint than any other is a lame high-horse. We all share a lousy history.
Those illegals are glad to get work US citizens believe they're too good for. That makes those illegals better for this country than an awfully lot of US citizens. They're workers willing to trade toil for life. They're not beggars trying to pry advantage out of the guilts and misfortunes of dead men. And they're not trying to ride through life on the empty rhetoric and guilt dreams rich people who think they're poor and get their jollies pointing out what some ancestor did to some other ancestor.
What happened a hundred years ago didn't happen to any of us. We were all born naked.
Jack
What happened a hundred years ago didn't happen to any of us.
Are you sure?
Atleast not on the massive scale and potency as when those acts were a norm. That's for sure. Not the same.
What happened a long time ago should not be used as a crutch for today's personal ailments.
I don't blame anyone except myself, for where Iam today. I could use the excuse, among others, that I'm not as successful because my parents split up when I was 4 years old, or that my mom drank while she was pregnant with me. And I won't.
I think if everyone took responsibility for their actions, and stopped blaming other people about their problems, this world would be much better off.
New Mexico United States
Member #12,305
March 10, 2005
2,984 Posts
Offline
Human beings of every description have raped, enslaved and pillaged human beings of every other description throughout human history. Including aboriginal Americans enslaving one another, killing, raping and pillaging one another. Including black Africans enslaving one another, killing raping pillaging one another. Asians, whites, anyone else who could get the upper hand over someone else.
There ain't any moral high ground to be found in what some long-dead human did to some other long-dead human, neither of whom anyone alive today even remembers. Any moral high-horse that suggests one breed of humans has any better grounds for complaint than any other is a lame high-horse. We all share a lousy history.
Those illegals are glad to get work US citizens believe they're too good for. That makes those illegals better for this country than an awfully lot of US citizens. They're workers willing to trade toil for life. They're not beggars trying to pry advantage out of the guilts and misfortunes of dead men. And they're not trying to ride through life on the empty rhetoric and guilt dreams rich people who think they're poor and get their jollies pointing out what some ancestor did to some other ancestor.
What happened a hundred years ago didn't happen to any of us. We were all born naked.
Jack
What happened a hundred years ago didn't happen to any of us.
Are you sure?
Atleast not on the massive scale and potency as when those acts were a norm. That's for sure. Not the same.
What happened a long time ago should not be used as a crutch for today's personal ailments.
I don't blame anyone except myself, for where Iam today. I could use the excuse, among others, that I'm not as successful because my parents split up when I was 4 years old, or that my mom drank while she was pregnant with me. And I won't.
I think if everyone took responsibility for their actions, and stopped blaming other people about their problems, this world would be much better off.
Sheeze.
Of course we're reincarnated. However, we might have been some slave, murderer, slaveholder, king, thief, or merely the idiots we are today, trying to blame someone else for our problems.
I've got ancestors who were slaveholders. I didn't do it. At that very moment I might have been one of the slaves in a previous life. I didn't do that, either.
I'm doing my best to be me, mostly now. I can't recriminate meself for what my ancestors and previous selves done to one another. It don't carry water.
However, Pac, while I agree you can't blame the fact you ain't as successful as you evidently wish yourself to be at something on the fact your parents split and your mom drank, that's precisely why I'm less successful than I wish I were at something.
If your folks had just stayed together and your mom hadn't drank while she was preg, there ain't any telling what heights I'd have reached this lifetime.
Hacks me off when I think about it. Your old man ought to be horsewhipped for what he done to me leaving your mom.