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Paranoid or Prudent?

Topic closed. 90 replies. Last post 10 years ago by KY Floyd.

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Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
Chief Bottle Washer
New Jersey
United States
Member #1
May 31, 2000
23348 Posts
Online
Posted: June 30, 2007, 7:26 pm - IP Logged

 Hi everyone this is Rubblehead. As the name suggest I am not very smart.

Anyhow I am brand new and am reading all the post here. And came across this one.

I will throw my two sence in the dish see what its worth here.

No one ever checks the lottery out anyway right? Do they? How would we know if they were cheating.

I dont think they are a fraid of jail at all! They probably run the jail, and the govenor would call the shots on that one anyways right?

 

Big deal, Jail! Big stinking deal, Paris did it they are stronger than her!

So I dont think they are afraid of jail!

Uh ... the lottery is not "checked"?  The lottery is one of the most "checked" government organizations.  Some use two different independent auditors to check (audit) them.

They check not just finances, but the workings and measurements of the equipment, as well as security.

I'll repeat here that I think the one area that really suffers is computerized drawings.  Because there is no foolproof way to audit the workings of a computer program, computerized drawings are the Achilles heel of every lottery that uses them.  That's why I am so firmly against them, and why I started the petition in the first place.

Your comments about jail being "no big deal" are strange, and the Paris Hilton comparison is way off base.  Paris Hilton spent two weeks in a local jail.  People committing the kind of fraud we're talking about here would face possibly decades of hard time and their lives would be basically over.

I think this whole topic is based upon a concept that I find illogical on the face of it.  "The lottery" is basically a place where regular people go to work.  Their job is to run and market games.  It doesn't have secret FBI- or CIA-like powers.  If someone who worked for the state lottery were to "fix" a game just so Fibonacci's or Coin Toss's numbers wouldn't hit, what exactly would their motivation be?  What personal gain would someone have to do that?  Think of yourself in their position:  would it be worth it for you to personally commit fraud so that a member of a lottery web site would not get a winning ticket?

Of course not!

If anything, someone would fix a game so that they themselves would win, not so that some predictions posted on a forum wouldn't hit.

When you actually say it out loud like this (type it), it sounds really strange to even imagine.

 

Check the State Lottery Report Card
What grade did your lottery earn?

 

Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
Help eliminate computerized drawings!

    Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
    Chief Bottle Washer
    New Jersey
    United States
    Member #1
    May 31, 2000
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    Online
    Posted: June 30, 2007, 7:39 pm - IP Logged

    Todd, I'm glad u replied as I was feeling very paranoid about posting my numbers lately & after reading your opinion, I feel much better & not paranoid anymore. I'm sure others r feeling the same. Just wanted to say thank u.

    Awesome!

    I've been acused by a few people in the past of "working with the lotteries" because sometimes I stick up for them, but in reality I just like to use common sense.  The lottery is not an evil empire or something.  They're just a group of people running some games, and they need to be sure that they make a profit at the end of the day.  Thinking that they would commit fraud to achieve would take an enormous leap in logic.

     

    Check the State Lottery Report Card
    What grade did your lottery earn?

     

    Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
    Help eliminate computerized drawings!

      Badger's avatar - adu50016 NorthAmericanBadger.jpg
      Wisconsin
      United States
      Member #1303
      March 27, 2003
      1508 Posts
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      Posted: June 30, 2007, 8:10 pm - IP Logged

      Fibonacci wrote

      e.g. I used to have a very good system for winning pairs in the pick3--almost every other day I hit the pairs -front or back , and in some cases the pairs pointed me to straight hits. 

      Since posting a lot about the power of pairs--the pair tree dried up. For more than 9 months a system that helped me to predict winning pairs every other day has not produced a single win. How can i not be paranoid?"

      There are many systems that work for awhile then stop working.  But more importantly, did your system, when working make you a profit ?  Because I don't think lottery officials would care at all if someone had a system that worked, but it resulted in having to play enough different combinations (i.e. outlay of money) daily that it either did not return a profit (i.e. over time yo spent more than you won) or it returned a very small profit compared to what had to be spent.

      If you had winning pairs every other day, then you would have to spend $10.00 for each $40.00 win, making a $15.00/day average profit playing boxed. Have a couple days in a row where you missed, and the profit, even small, is gone.  That's what happens to most systems.  Somehow, I don't think that the lottery officials, while they are taking in millions of dollars per year, are all that concerned with a person that at best would be making a few bucks/day profit off them.  Certainly it wouldn't be enough of a reason for them to do anything to change the game.  It's peanuts.

      ============

      How can you tell if a politician is lying?

      Answer: His lips are moving.


        United States
        Member #17555
        June 22, 2005
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        Posted: June 30, 2007, 8:30 pm - IP Logged

        Awesome!

        I've been acused by a few people in the past of "working with the lotteries" because sometimes I stick up for them, but in reality I just like to use common sense.  The lottery is not an evil empire or something.  They're just a group of people running some games, and they need to be sure that they make a profit at the end of the day.  Thinking that they would commit fraud to achieve would take an enormous leap in logic.

        The lottery is not an evil empire or something. 

        I think you've been watching Battlestar Galactica way too long now....LOL

                                  Big Grin Angel


          United States
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          Posted: June 30, 2007, 9:16 pm - IP Logged

            United States
            Member #53080
            June 23, 2007
            26 Posts
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            Posted: July 1, 2007, 4:23 am - IP Logged

            I'm sorry Todd I like the site but I dont believe anything you believe.

              RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
              mid-Ohio
              United States
              Member #9
              March 24, 2001
              19894 Posts
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              Posted: July 1, 2007, 4:56 am - IP Logged

              I'm sorry Todd I like the site but I dont believe anything you believe.

              "Hi everyone this is Rubblehead. As the name suggest I am not very smart."
                from rubblehead's first post.

              Would you still believe what you post if Todd believed it too?  LOL

               * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
                 
                           Evil Looking       

                Fibonacci's avatar - Lottery-050.jpg
                New York, NY
                United States
                Member #39471
                May 16, 2006
                2696 Posts
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                Posted: July 1, 2007, 6:58 am - IP Logged

                "Hi everyone this is Rubblehead. As the name suggest I am not very smart."
                  from rubblehead's first post.

                Would you still believe what you post if Todd believed it too?  LOL

                Good logical brain teaser...It might take some a while to get it. A good save would be: "I believe nothing that Todd believes except when he believes what I believe/write."

                $$$

                  Fibonacci's avatar - Lottery-050.jpg
                  New York, NY
                  United States
                  Member #39471
                  May 16, 2006
                  2696 Posts
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                  Posted: July 1, 2007, 7:06 am - IP Logged

                  Awesome!

                  I've been acused by a few people in the past of "working with the lotteries" because sometimes I stick up for them, but in reality I just like to use common sense.  The lottery is not an evil empire or something.  They're just a group of people running some games, and they need to be sure that they make a profit at the end of the day.  Thinking that they would commit fraud to achieve would take an enormous leap in logic.

                  Now that one is paranoia. Not that Todd needs my vote but i don't think it makes sense that Todd works with the officials in any official capacity. It does make sense to me that as the owner/steward of the best ite on lottery on the WWW, they would approach him thru back channels to keep track of a member who shows too much promise...Big Grin Ok it's a joke folks ( or is it?).

                   As I said it does not make sense to have a site that has tools that can make people genuinely win the lottery and be a lottery disinformation agent.

                  However I disagree with Todd's observation that thinking that officials would commit fraud is illogical. Based on everyday empirical evidence (news report of fraud indictments and convictions) it IS illogical to think they wouldn't commit fraud.

                   

                  As Todd puts it so correctly: "They NEED to be sure that they make a profit..."

                  Nothing truer has been said on this subject. 

                  $$$

                    Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
                    Chief Bottle Washer
                    New Jersey
                    United States
                    Member #1
                    May 31, 2000
                    23348 Posts
                    Online
                    Posted: July 1, 2007, 8:55 am - IP Logged

                    Now that one is paranoia. Not that Todd needs my vote but i don't think it makes sense that Todd works with the officials in any official capacity. It does make sense to me that as the owner/steward of the best ite on lottery on the WWW, they would approach him thru back channels to keep track of a member who shows too much promise...Big Grin Ok it's a joke folks ( or is it?).

                     As I said it does not make sense to have a site that has tools that can make people genuinely win the lottery and be a lottery disinformation agent.

                    However I disagree with Todd's observation that thinking that officials would commit fraud is illogical. Based on everyday empirical evidence (news report of fraud indictments and convictions) it IS illogical to think they wouldn't commit fraud.

                     

                    As Todd puts it so correctly: "They NEED to be sure that they make a profit..."

                    Nothing truer has been said on this subject. 

                    Those news reports you hear are about lottery officials making money illigally for themselves, not risking their lives so that a government agency could prosper! 

                    Not to mention you're mixing apples and oranges.  There has never been a news report that relates to this topic here.  If there was then please point me to it. 

                    To my knowledge, there has never been a reported incident of a lottery official trying to adjust games in any manner so that a system would not win.  Probably because nobody has managed to consistently beat a near-random event, like a lottery drawing.

                     

                    Check the State Lottery Report Card
                    What grade did your lottery earn?

                     

                    Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
                    Help eliminate computerized drawings!


                      United States
                      Member #53080
                      June 23, 2007
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                      Posted: July 3, 2007, 10:26 am - IP Logged

                      Look let me put it to you straight! I am not here to win points, I am not here to make friends, nor kiss up to Todd. He has a great site.

                       Nor am I here to put anyone down. I simply speak my mind. I do not care if you made 10 mil dollars last year or 10 dollars. Your wit or wisdom or stupidity or foolishness belongs to you individually, unless you stole it from someone. In that case I am not concerned if you are a thief or liar or a complete lunitic.

                      I have my beliefs about the organization and you have yours. My belief is the lottery is rigged and has always been rigged. It is a corrupt organization, that sells dreams to the american public and the world, gypsies selling a brew a magic potion call JACKPOT!

                      The Question is, will anyone ever bust them, No! And this is the reason they are not afraid of jail. Barretta said it best. Dont do the crime if you cant do the time! Dont do it! The song said it at least!

                      They have determined they can do the time.

                      Because you can not prove the lottery organization is rigged or honest does not mean that it isnt. No one has proven that it is honest and no one has proven that it is rigged.

                      It is my belief that it is rigged! And in my opinion I see their dirty fingerprints left everywhere.

                      I see it in the way the market themselves to the public, just like a criminal would, I see it in the way they talk to you when you call them on the phone, arogant people they are.

                      I am not talking about the employees they have dupped. They simply work there and man the phones. I am talking about those who run it. 

                      Who monitors those who monitors them?  And then who are their monitors?

                      In otherwords to simply say the lottery is an honest bunch and that it is monitored proves nothing to me. Or NIXON!

                      Of course its monitored, would in the public allows a state to run a lottery if it wasnt?

                      A better way of sayig it would be..

                       WE HAVE OUR MONITORS. Not we are monitored!

                      And to say that because it is monitored that alone makes it honest  somehow, is the same as saying because there are police and cops and fbi amd cia the criminal isnt going to commit crime anymore! RIGHT! sure! Ok you belief that if you want too.

                      The criminal simply finds another way around the police and fbi and cia they always have. And always will.

                      AND rememeber this above all things! THE CRIMINAL NEVER THINKS HE"S GOING TO GET BUSTED! he always thinks he's outsmarting everyone, and the longer he gets away with something the bigger that EGO becomes. This is why they are so arragant. 

                       I am not trying to make this topic into something geared toward what I believe. I feel what I say is just as much a needed part of this discussiona s the rest of everything else said. I do not believe it should continue and become all one sided because i feel the lottery is corrupt. I always have believed that!

                      I am simply saying I believe that the lottery is corrupt and always has been!

                      Since when can a person assure he makes a profit at the end of the day in a RANDOM event unless he riggs it in his favor. The house has got to win more than the player. If that is fixing a machine to pay off every 18th pull or having no one win the jackpot till it gets to a certain level.

                      The lottery has nothing to do with being random if it is not played with the traditional balls. It is all shrouded in secrecy. if it were honest why not have it in the street in the middle of town!

                        jarasan's avatar - new patrick.gif
                        Harbinger
                        D.C./MD.
                        United States
                        Member #44103
                        July 30, 2006
                        5587 Posts
                        Online
                        Posted: July 3, 2007, 11:03 am - IP Logged

                        Look let me put it to you straight! I am not here to win points, I am not here to make friends, nor kiss up to Todd. He has a great site.

                         Nor am I here to put anyone down. I simply speak my mind. I do not care if you made 10 mil dollars last year or 10 dollars. Your wit or wisdom or stupidity or foolishness belongs to you individually, unless you stole it from someone. In that case I am not concerned if you are a thief or liar or a complete lunitic.

                        I have my beliefs about the organization and you have yours. My belief is the lottery is rigged and has always been rigged. It is a corrupt organization, that sells dreams to the american public and the world, gypsies selling a brew a magic potion call JACKPOT!

                        The Question is, will anyone ever bust them, No! And this is the reason they are not afraid of jail. Barretta said it best. Dont do the crime if you cant do the time! Dont do it! The song said it at least!

                        They have determined they can do the time.

                        Because you can not prove the lottery organization is rigged or honest does not mean that it isnt. No one has proven that it is honest and no one has proven that it is rigged.

                        It is my belief that it is rigged! And in my opinion I see their dirty fingerprints left everywhere.

                        I see it in the way the market themselves to the public, just like a criminal would, I see it in the way they talk to you when you call them on the phone, arogant people they are.

                        I am not talking about the employees they have dupped. They simply work there and man the phones. I am talking about those who run it. 

                        Who monitors those who monitors them?  And then who are their monitors?

                        In otherwords to simply say the lottery is an honest bunch and that it is monitored proves nothing to me. Or NIXON!

                        Of course its monitored, would in the public allows a state to run a lottery if it wasnt?

                        A better way of sayig it would be..

                         WE HAVE OUR MONITORS. Not we are monitored!

                        And to say that because it is monitored that alone makes it honest  somehow, is the same as saying because there are police and cops and fbi amd cia the criminal isnt going to commit crime anymore! RIGHT! sure! Ok you belief that if you want too.

                        The criminal simply finds another way around the police and fbi and cia they always have. And always will.

                        AND rememeber this above all things! THE CRIMINAL NEVER THINKS HE"S GOING TO GET BUSTED! he always thinks he's outsmarting everyone, and the longer he gets away with something the bigger that EGO becomes. This is why they are so arragant. 

                         I am not trying to make this topic into something geared toward what I believe. I feel what I say is just as much a needed part of this discussiona s the rest of everything else said. I do not believe it should continue and become all one sided because i feel the lottery is corrupt. I always have believed that!

                        I am simply saying I believe that the lottery is corrupt and always has been!

                        Since when can a person assure he makes a profit at the end of the day in a RANDOM event unless he riggs it in his favor. The house has got to win more than the player. If that is fixing a machine to pay off every 18th pull or having no one win the jackpot till it gets to a certain level.

                        The lottery has nothing to do with being random if it is not played with the traditional balls. It is all shrouded in secrecy. if it were honest why not have it in the street in the middle of town!

                        You go rubblehead, that is the beauty of free speech, but Todd is right. 

                          US FlagHappy 4th of July!


                          United States
                          Member #53080
                          June 23, 2007
                          26 Posts
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                          Posted: July 3, 2007, 11:51 am - IP Logged
                          If there is one thing I must give Todd credit for is his everlasting consistancy I've seen in just a short time on being on lotterypost in petitioning against the computerized drawings.
                          But I think he knows as well as anyone its going to happen regardless!
                          Soon all the states will be computerized!
                          In otherwords NOT RANDOM AT ALL~
                          Now do you all see the FUTURE!  
                          Now do you see their GOAL, their agenda? Why woukld an honest organization do that? Tell me again their not crooks! Make me laugh I need a good laugh!
                          Happy 4th Of July too.
                            four4me's avatar - gate1
                            MD
                            United States
                            Member #1701
                            June 18, 2003
                            8391 Posts
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                            Posted: July 3, 2007, 2:16 pm - IP Logged

                            The pick 3 and 4 drawing don't have a cap large enough for a lottery personal to rig a drawing. The person rigging the game has too much to lose. Besides that it would take a group of people or more to pull off such a drawing. The stakes are to high for those particular individuals.

                            Most lottery personal and their immediate family members can't even play the games in many states.


                            This rigging theory has been discussed many times. Do a search on this if you care to read the hundreds of conspiracy theories.

                            RNG drawings are a different story altogether. They can easily manipulate the games. Which is why we have a petition going to try to get them to revert to ball drawings.

                            Ball drawings have way to much security features in place now days for anyone to even attempt to try it. Lots of people are involved in the machine and ball selection processes.

                            States don't need to manipulate the ball drawings to make money it's one of their big money makers.

                              Avatar
                              Indiana
                              United States
                              Member #29196
                              December 29, 2005
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                              Posted: July 3, 2007, 6:44 pm - IP Logged

                              "You're dealing with the dirtiest industry I've ever seen in my 30 years of doing business..." 

                                                      -former Kentucky Lottery CFO Russ Davidson as quoted in the Atlanta Journal Constitution

                               

                              While this remark has no context attached to it, I do believe it generally reflects the nature of the Lottery industry in the United States and indeed worldwide.

                              I joined Lottery Post in good faith just as I played the Lottery in good faith.  But my experience with and inquiries into the lottery have caused me to become a cynic and a critic of the lotteries in general.  And while as a rule I do not believe in conspiracy theories I do believe rubblehead is correct in his assessment of lotteries.

                              <>Before I go on let's get back to the original point of this thread...I too believe lottery employees and lottery officials visit Lottery Post.  They would be foolish not to.  That they actually they look for system players and try to adjust to their methods...I have no idea but I wouldn't put it past them. 

                              <>As a previous poster pointed out there is essentially nothing wrong with doing research.  I believe lottery employees and officials come here to see what people are sayng about the lotteries and their games.  They don't need to come here to see what games are popular...their sales figures tell them that.  But for the public's unvarnished opinions this is probably the best place for them to get information.

                              <>I also believe they come here and masquarade as regular players.  It is my opinion that they make positive posts about game changes that they know won't be popular with players...or sing the praises of constant roll overs...or tout the lottery's honesty and security procedures as a means of influencing public opinion.  In other words they are here for propaganda purposes.

                              <>The truth is rubblehad is correct about the dishonesty.  Anyone who takes the time to research lotteries can find a wealth of scandals world wide that shows the many of the people in charge of lotteries are corrupt.

                              For example...since 2000, Lottery Directors or high oficials in Colorado, Minnesota, Oregon, North Carolina and Indiana have all resigned because of charges of scandal or corruption. 

                              In Florida and California lottery officials were fired in scandals the former relating to money and the latter relating to illegal perks.

                              Indiana has had a scandal over rigged scratch off games.

                              Indiana and Texas have had scandals involving inflated prizes or mistated odds.

                              <>Texas, New Jersey and North Carolina have all had scandals (and in some cases indictments) involving G-Tech and Lottery officials.

                              G-Tech's record of scandal and corruption speaks for itself. 

                              <>There are 2 scandals in Canada right now...Ontario and the Atlantic provinces...as well as lottery scandals in China and Italy. 

                              These are not isolated incients.  They are rather a pattern of behavior indicitive of what happens when there is BIG MONEY to be made from the public and little to no real accountability.

                              Now does any of this prove that lotteries actually rig their games?  NO!  It doesn't prove that at all.  (Well actually the Foreman scandal in Indiana does and perhaps the OLG scandal in Canada does as well.)  But what it does prove is that there are corrupt lottery officials.  And if they are corrupt in their dealings with their friends, colleagues, vendors and business associates...what is to say they are not corrupt in the way they run their games? Are we to believe they are corrupt in their dealings but honest in the way they run their games? 

                              Face it...corrupt lottery officials (and by default the lotteries they run) are a fact of life.  And to be blunt...I believe if a corrupt lottery official or corrupt employee can rig a game...THEY WILL!

                              Jim 

                               

                               

                               

                               

                               

                               

                              <>  


                              Money frees you from doing things you dislike.  Since I dislike doing nearly everything, money is handy.  - Groucho Marx